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MDL0 files from Non-Brawl games

Tcll

Tcll

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Jaklub said:
It was good back in the day when it was needed.
Click to expand...
it's people's misconception of what's really going on...

basically saying it's the same thing as my scrapped Melee DAT converter
although it's a completely different concept, but it's the same analogy >_>

my converter only worked on very few trophies
FW's bone adder works on small-sized files
(since it doubles the filesize and eats up the RAM with unneeded data,
where as mine was a brute-force method that only worked on specific files)

for both concepts, only few files actually work

I did try adding bones using FW's,
then repositioning the bones by hand (deleting the MDL0 copy)

the only hard part was the MDL0 map...
well, that was more annoying than hard...
I'm sure RTB can relate XDD

another thing that bothers me is the offset groups (the first 4 16bit values)
FW only copies the last offset and edits the "pointers" in it...
the first 4 values involve an index and a map...
I'm not sure how it all fits together and all, but I do know this:

value1 == ID
value2 == '00 00' (potential of being different)
value3 == map1
value4 == map2
everyone knows values 5 and 6 XD

I think the mdl0 can be composed of multiple MDL0's...
in which I'm guessing value2 will be int(1) for that...
if not that, then a scene number...
I still need to research it

btw, any idea on how to use the offset with the ID of -1??
IK alot of people (including me) make the mistake of skipping it... heh
 
Jaklub

Jaklub

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Tcll said:
it's people's misconception of what's really going on...

basically saying it's the same thing as my scrapped Melee DAT converter
although it's a completely different concept, but it's the same analogy >_>

my converter only worked on very few trophies
FW's bone adder works on small-sized files
(since it doubles the filesize and eats up the RAM with unneeded data,
where as mine was a brute-force method that only worked on specific files)

for both concepts, only few files actually work

I did try adding bones using FW's,
then repositioning the bones by hand (deleting the MDL0 copy)

the only hard part was the MDL0 map...
well, that was more annoying than hard...
I'm sure RTB can relate XDD

another thing that bothers me is the offset groups (the first 4 16bit values)
FW only copies the last offset and edits the "pointers" in it...
the first 4 values involve an index and a map...
I'm not sure how it all fits together and all, but I do know this:

value1 == ID
value2 == '00 00' (potential of being different)
value3 == map1
value4 == map2
everyone knows values 5 and 6 XD

I think the mdl0 can be composed of multiple MDL0's...
in which I'm guessing value2 will be int(1) for that...
if not that, then a scene number...
I still need to research it

btw, any idea on how to use the offset with the ID of -1??
IK alot of people (including me) make the mistake of skipping it... heh
Click to expand...
I don't care about technical details of MDL0. What I wanted to say is that even if his method is outdated and bad, there was (and I may be wrong, but I think there still is) no other choice.
 
D

Difegue

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Just posting some useless info: Haruhi no Gekidou's models have to be scaled to 1,3x. I use those a lot atm, and 1,3 seems to be the best size for the characters and stages. Not sure about the models in the "items" folder tho, those seem a lot bigger, I had to scale most of them to like 0,75, weirddd

Jissen Pachi-Slot Hisshouhou! Hokuto no Ken [JPN]
- (Version: ?)
- (Compression: ?)
- (Scale to: ?x)
- (Additional notes: Unless you want slot machines, there's really not much in the way of models in this game.)
Click to expand...
Aw, really? Like, isn't there a tiny model of Kenshiro lying around in that game? Because I'd love that.
 
RandomTBush

RandomTBush

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Difegue said:
Just posting some useless info: Haruhi no Gekidou's models have to be scaled to 1,3x. I use those a lot atm, and 1,3 seems to be the best size for the characters and stages. Not sure about the models in the "items" folder tho, those seem a lot bigger, I had to scale most of them to like 0,75, weirddd

Jissen Pachi-Slot Hisshouhou! Hokuto no Ken [JPN]
- (Version: ?)
- (Compression: ?)
- (Scale to: ?x)
- (Additional notes: Unless you want slot machines, there's really not much in the way of models in this game.)
Click to expand...
Aw, really? Like, isn't there a tiny model of Kenshiro lying around in that game? Because I'd love that.
Click to expand...
Alright, I'll add the scaling tips for the Haruhi game to the first post. And since I don't really have to worry about bandwidth limits at the moment, I'll check out the other game, just to make sure.
 
Tcll

Tcll

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speakin of scaling:
Pachirisu has to be scaled to 1.3 or 1.4

I had to use his 'origin' bone to do that when animating... heh

that's Pokepark btw

EDIT:
oh wow...
first time my sig glitched up on me in a while... heh

must be cause I'm running Minecraft :p

EDIT2:
lol ok (sig fixed)
 
RandomTBush

RandomTBush

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You are already dead.

Bone tree's really weird, though (every bone branches off of the root), he's huge (and therefore must have huge guts), it's also a "Version 8" MDL0, the files have a strange compression for the most part (had to get that from a memory dump) and it has "TGA" textures. Really doubt it'll work in Brawl right off the bat. O_o
 
D

Difegue

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Messages
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Aw, so you have to get the models from a memory dump? That sucks. Anyway, isn't it just a matter of gettng it through the hexer? FW's always converted version 9 and 10 w/out problems. (The Haruhi models are like v10 I think?)

As for the bone tree, that does look messed up. Likely because the game is actually a port of a ps2 game.

Still, mind PMing me Kenshiro? If you already have the textures working, I might as well try to get it in game... Any interesting scenery models in the game? out of curiosity :p

:phone:
 
Tcll

Tcll

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*sigh*
why must every imformatable post I make always end up getting ignored -_-

^that's from brawl

am I the only one whose looked into these D:
cause I'm the only one talking about them,
and actually making progress to make them

that's right... the import models themselves don't cast the shadow...
it's another model w/o a texture rendered as transparent that casts the shadow

if you'll notice the bone tree,
it's the exact same as in the post below
 
RandomTBush

RandomTBush

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Difegue said:
Aw, so you have to get the models from a memory dump? That sucks. Anyway, isn't it just a matter of gettng it through the hexer? FW's always converted version 9 and 10 w/out problems. (The Haruhi models are like v10 I think?)

As for the bone tree, that does look messed up. Likely because the game is actually a port of a ps2 game.

Still, mind PMing me Kenshiro? If you already have the textures working, I might as well try to get it in game... Any interesting scenery models in the game? out of curiosity :p

:phone:
Click to expand...
Sent it to ya. And I'm pretty sure I might be able to get them from their original files, but I need to figure out what needs to be done to decompress the BRRES files from their original containers. And it doesn't help that they all have odd file names, so I can't tell what's what.

And in relation to what Tcll mentioned, shadow models are quite odd. I'm not even sure how they work, or even why they have a bone structure like that, and not like the original files. Heck, I had thought that it was the collision model originally.
 
RandomTBush

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pikazz said:
this is great info! :D

but it seems to be mario kart wii's mld0, not brawl :/
Click to expand...
The MDL0s are really not that much different, but it's useful to know where the offsets are located if you wanna try making your own. Either way, I'll give a full explanation as to how to make your own sometime next month, barring any complications (or laziness).
 
Tcll

Tcll

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heh... I knew they were shadow models just from reading the filename
'FitPikachu*Shd*'

not to mention looking at the shadow of the char :p

Pika was the easiest to figure out because if you'll notice:
the shadow model's tail has only 3 segments,
while the main model's tail has 4

the shadow's tail (in game) has 3 segments

btw, nice info :D

EDIT:
I still see the use of improper modelling terms...
and alot of errors related to MDL0 structure

and for the shader,
would that be the material-shader or the TEV??
 
D

Difegue

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As for the wack bone tree, I have no idea why it's like that, but it's perfectly animable. Tried it out, parts of the model stretch upon moving like, arm bones but that's solvable by moving the child bones with it. Takes a while tho
However, Kenshiro does work in Brawl:

One of the textures is just screwing up. Isn't that the same problem TMNT: Smash-Up had?
(his model was scaled down to 0.5, not quite perfect but almost, I bet 0.7 would be perfect)
 
RandomTBush

RandomTBush

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Tcll said:
EDIT:
I still see the use of improper modelling terms...
and alot of errors related to MDL0 structure

and for the shader,
would that be the material-shader or the TEV??
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've noticed that a few of the notes are off (because section #9 should be the TEVs, and I think #12 are for the "decals"), but for the most part it's correct. Another thing, is that for the "sections", there actually seems to be a new one used in Sonic Colours's models at the tail end (listed as being section #13). I'm not quite what it is, though, but I'm gonna look into it later on. And I think I might have an idea of what sections 6 and 7 are for, but I'll have to see if they exist, first.

And Kenshiro's hair might be because of an improper texture format (or because of the Unknown2 variable). I'll take a look at it when I'm back at my original computer.
 
Tcll

Tcll

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hey...

can you send a copy of one to me :/


I'd like to look into it as well...
and check the version >_>

I wanna add as many versions as possible to my converter

btw...
different versions have different group list offsets...

IDK how they all work just yet...
BJ calls a few offsets padding, but IK they're not...
he won't listen to me when I try to tell him XD
 
Tcll

Tcll

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well, I'm making progress...

here's a little something Kryal wouldn't tell me:
http://tcll5850.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=development&thread=109&page=1

TEV structures could more easily be compaired to Blender Nodes
(IDK what to compair for 3DS)

first off, every TEV I've looked in has these same structures as the first:
Code: 
61 FE 00 00 0F 
61 F6 00 00 04 
61 FE 00 00 0F
61 F7 00 00 0E 
61 FE 00 00 0F 
61 F8 00 00 00 
61 FE 00 00 0F 
61 F9 00 00 0C 
61 FE 00 00 0F 
61 FA 00 00 05 
61 FE 00 00 0F 
61 FB 00 00 0D 
61 FE 00 00 0F 
61 FC 00 00 0A 
61 FE 00 00 0F 
61 FD 00 00 0E 
61 27 FF FF FF 
00 00 00 00 00 
00 00 00 00 00 
00
after that, it usually continues with these structures:
Code: 
61 FE FF FF F0 
61 F6 E3 38 C0 
61 28 0B F0 49 
61 C0 28 F8 AF 
61 C2 08 AF F0 
61 C1 08 F2 F0 
61 C3 08 FF 80 
61 10 00 00 00 
61 11 00 00 00 
00 00 00
each structure represents a different node...
links between them are unknown as of yet >_>


other info would be:
Blender nodes are a material extension (just like TEV's)
Blender nodes control color and alpha (same as TEV's)


IK I was right when I said these weren't shaders... Kryal... *glares*
but I was wrong on my assumption that these were materials

yea... thanx for getting me to confuse a whole community on them >:O

btw, I only just looked into these as of last night...
in a few weeks, there should be alot more figured out

I must however thank Kryal for these notes:
----Block 0----
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 F6 00 00 04 - KSel[0] (Swap Mode) = ?4 '01 00' [S1=0,S2=1]
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 F7 00 00 0E - KSel[1] (Swap Mode) = ?E '11 10' [S1=2,S2=3]
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 F8 00 00 00 - KSel[2] (Swap Mode) = ?0 '00 00' [S1=0,S2=0]
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 F9 00 00 0C - KSel[3] (Swap Mode) = ?C '11 00' [S1=0,S2=3]
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 FA 00 00 05 - KSel[4] (Swap Mode) = ?5 '01 01' [S1=1,S2=1]
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 FB 00 00 0D - KSel[5] (Swap Mode) = ?D '11 01' [S1=1,S2=3]
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 FC 00 00 0A - KSel[6] (Swap Mode) = ?F '11 11' [S1=2,S2=2]
61 FE 00 00 0F - BP Mask 0x0F
61 FD 00 00 0E - KSel[7] (Swap Mode) = ?E '11 10' [S1=2,S2=3]
61 27 FF FF FF - IREF = 0xFFFFFF
PADDING
---Block 1---
61 FE FF FF F0 - BP Mask 0xFFFFF0
61 F6 E3 78 C0 - KSel[0] (Sel Mode) = 0xE378C? [C0=C,A0=1C,C1=D,A1=1C] (Enable tex/color/coord map 0 for stage 0, disable stage 1)
61 28 03 F0 40 - TRef[0] = 0x03F040 [TM0=0,TC0=0,En0=1,CC=0,TM1=7,TC2=7,En1=0,CC1=0]
61 C0 28 F8 AF - ColEnv[0] = 0x28F8AF [D=F,C=A,B=8,A=F,Bias=0,Op=0,Clamp=1,Shift=2,Dest=0]
61 C2 08 FE B0 - ColEnv[1] = 0x08FEB0
61 C1 08 F2 F0 - AlpEnc[0] = 0x08F2F0 [RS=0,TS=0,D=7,C=5,B=4,A=7,Bias=0,Op=0,Clamp=1,Shift=0,Dest=0]
61 C3 08 1F F0 - AlpEnc[1] = 0x081FF0
61 10 00 00 00 - Cmd[0] = 0x000000
61 11 00 00 00 - Cmd[1] = 0x000000
PADDING
--Block2--
61 FE FF FF F0 - BP Mask 0xFFFFF0
61 F7 00 38 C0 - KSel[1] (Sel Mode) = 0x0038C?
61 29 3B F3 BF - TRef[1] = 0x3BF3BF
61 C4 08 0F EF - ColEnv[2] = 0x080FEF
00 00 00 00 00 - NOP
61 C5 08 1F F0 - AlpEnv[2] = 0x081FF0
00 00 00 00 00 - NOP
61 12 00 00 00 - Cmd[2] = 0x000000
PADDING
BP Register commands: '61 ##'
1# - Cmd[#]
27 - IREF
28 - TRef[0]
...
2F - TRef[7]
-
C0 - ColEnv[0]
C1 - AlpEnc[0]
...
CE - ColEnv[7]
CF - AlpEnc[7]
-
FE - BP Mask
F6 - KSel[0]
...
FD - KSel[7]
Click to expand...
as they were an extremely big help in figuring these out ;)

EDIT:
sry bout letting out a huge HATE-crime about Kryal...
that's literally the 0nly thing he's told me... D:

I've been sending him PMs that IK he could answer, and he won't respond back...
otherwise I'd have quite alot more info to offer...

if not figuring out the MDL0 entirely...
I only know about 60% of what an MDL0 can contain and how it can be ordered
 
RandomTBush

RandomTBush

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Mario_and_Sonic_Guy said:
Memory dumps are probably the better option for figuring out if DBZ: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 has MDL0 content.
Click to expand...
Which is what I'm gonna try doing once I've got the game. If it's not in a memory dump, then it definitely doesn't have MDL0.

(EDIT: Nope. It doesn't have MDL0. Just went through a memory dump of the game, and it came up with nothing. So it was a false positive, unlike Okami which surprisingly wasn't.)
 
Tcll

Tcll

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RandomTBush said:
Sorry, it's just that I don't know much about the TEVs, so I can't really help you there...
Click to expand...
who does XD

can you help me figure them out?? :/

do you use 3DS at all??

only answer this if you do:
what are the node structures 3DS uses


so far, all I know about the TEV's are the structures are defined bt the BP_Mask...
so far here's the structures:

if BP_Mask == '00000F':
KSel[#] = value

if BP_Mask == 'FFFFF0':
KSel[#] = value
TRef[#] = value
ColEnv[#] = value
ColEnv[#] = value
AlpEnc[#] = value
AlpEnc[#] = value
Cmd[#] = value
Cmd[#] = value
padding = fr.read(3)

there's also the IREF structure

61 27 FF FF FF
00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00
00

^I think there might be 2 values with an 8bit padding

Kryal just listed all of it as padding, but I think there's more to it <_<
 
Demonslayerx8

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there might be in the wiiware games... even tho i dont even kno how to extract models from wiiware.wad files... or how to play them on dolphin.
 
meleemaster500

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well, if a potential game gets dumped, we can see if it has mdl0s of some type, or if they won't use them at all for 3ds games
 
mariodk

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i got a idea how to make imported Chars. to use the same animations as a Char. Brawl
just rename bones like rename left arm bone same name as a Brawl Char. and fix the animation for the model

i wanted to know if it will work?
so i can do it for Kid Goku import with Lucas´s Animations and make animation for the tail only
 
RandomTBush

RandomTBush

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Eternal Yoshi said:
That we should change the topic?

Anwyay, is there any existing Chocobo mdl0?
Click to expand...
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon has one, and the good thing is it has actual rigging for its face, so you can give it faceposing without needing to crack open SHP0 files for it (like Ganondorf's).
 
SonicTheHedgehog02

SonicTheHedgehog02

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mariodk said:
i got a idea how to make imported Chars. to use the same animations as a Char. Brawl
just rename bones like rename left arm bone same name as a Brawl Char. and fix the animation for the model

i wanted to know if it will work?
so i can do it for Kid Goku import with Lucas´s Animations and make animation for the tail only
Click to expand...
good theroy
 
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