Megaman Zero Mafia/Newbie 21! Game Over. Mafia Wins!

[LoliLovesRain]

Pretend Badwolf HAD flipped scum. Where would you be looking?

Answer this question as well please and thank you.

 

[Orboknown]

Loli, any scumreads from you?

 

[Dooms]

-_-.

BadWolf was being anti-town and he needed to go. There's also this whole thing where BSP was the deciding vote and he openly stated that he was going to vote BadWolf. I had no reason to keep my vote on a wagon that wasn't going to win.

The way you've played is eh. Sheeping stances at the end of day one makes it possible that you're scum. However, I definitely do not see you as scum with Joker. No way in hell.

 

[Dooms]

If BadWolf flipped scum, I'd look at Loli or Gheb. Maybe Kary.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@kary- could you see their interaction as SVS?

I don't think so. Their argument seems genuine, which suggests they're not aligned, and it doesn't strike me as a good strategy to argue like this if they are both scum.

Until =/= 100% certainty. "Until he fails my class, I'll trust him to do his work." or "I'm fine with this job until I get shot." So no, it doesn't have to be if. Nice try though. Painting me as scum must be fun for you, right?

I do enjoy calling you on null things to see how you react, yes.

In order to keep him from being lynched? We only have to go through 2 more phases. If I get lynched, that's 1. Unless they go full ******, they can get another lynch after me.

Really? You flip town and somehow Joker escapes the lynch tomorrow? No, I don't think this makes sense as a scum strategy, and I don't think that having BSP and Joker both as scum is plausible.

I didn't make more of a push because BadWolf was playing really anti-town and needed to be lynched. I've said this several times. Repeating myself is boring.

The thing is, no-one else is of the opinion that he needed to be lynched. You weren't of that opinion, at first. And the justification for it looks pretty damn slim.

BadWolf was being anti-town and he needed to go. There's also this whole thing where BSP was the deciding vote and he openly stated that he was going to vote BadWolf. I had no reason to keep my vote on a wagon that wasn't going to win.

But the thing is, you could easily have asked someone on the Badwolf waggon to switch, and myself/Ori might well have listened. But you didn't bother, and took matters into your own hands, without asking anyone.

I'm a wanna lynch you Jo-ey

 

[Orboknown]

@modrequesting votecount

 

[Orboknown]

Kary, why shouldn't they argue like this as scum? Takes the heat off of whoever lived theough the day, as the gocus seems to be on those two.

@jokeryou said you would look at my slot if bw flipped town. What happened to that?

 

[Dooms]

No one else thinking the same way as me = me scum. Nice to know, Kary.

Actually, I don't care about arguing anymore. This is getting way too annoying and I just don't care for it.

I'm Hidden Phantom, Town Watcher. Hammered BadWolf to make myself look scummier so I wouldn't get killed over-night. Targeted Kary with no result. Have fun, guys.

 

[Orboknown]

...
That was sudden.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary, why shouldn't they argue like this as scum? Takes the heat off of whoever lived theough the day, as the gocus seems to be on those two.

I just don't think that if one of them flips scum, at this point in the game, the other will have enough of a clear to ride to victory. They've been arguing pretty much from the start of toDay, so if this was some sort of plan it'd be pretty ballsy; you're basically pushing for one scumbuddy to die, then you still need to avoid the watcher and pull two mislynches.

No one else thinking the same way as me = me scum. Nice to know, Kary.

Wow

Actually I was more arguing that you pulling a 180 to hit a super suspect hammer = you scum. But thanks for brutally mis-representing my argument.

I'm Hidden Phantom, Town Watcher. Hammered BadWolf to make myself look scummier so I wouldn't get killed over-night. Targeted Kary with no result. Have fun, guys.

Ahahaha
That paranoid about getting killed N1? Hmmm.
Can't decide if I believe you. Why did you choose to watch me, Joey?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

IC STUFF

Joey has claimed a power role; that of town watcher.

If he's town, he doesn't have a good reason to lie about this (it would just cause confusion), and so you should take it as true.

If he's scum, he may be claiming a power role in order to try and save his own skin, or to 'out' the real power role, so that scum can kill/nullify them.

If someone else 'counter-claims' (sometimes 'CC') Joey, by claiming the same role, then given there's only one watcher in this setup, one of them must be lying, and so is therefore overwhelmingly likely to be scum.

However;
If you're the town watcher, you obviously know that Joey is lying, and should be considered scum. It is important for you to weigh up the benefits of you 'outing' yourself by claiming your role against the drawbacks. For instance, were Joey likely to be lynched anyways, it would probably not be worth outing yourself.

Bear in mind that the timing of a counter-claim tends to affect whether it is believed. One school of thought is that you should typically counter-claim either straight away or not at all; claiming at any other point would tend to create confusion and be anti-town.


Finally, simply counter-claiming a player doesn't guarantee they'll be lynched. Town may have to decide which one of the two players is lying- though it is worth noting that is unusual for mafia to counter-claim town, as it brings attention to them and implicates them on the townie's flip (thought this may not always be an issue)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

One last thing:

Sometimes a player's claim will not add up with what you know for sure about the game, even though your role is not the same as theirs. Sometimes there can confusion or uncertainty in this based on the roles in the game, so be careful.

However, in this setup, if you were the bodyguard, and you visited me last night, you would know that Joey is lying; because if he was the watcher, he would have seen you visit me. The same points with regards to whether you should claim are likely to apply.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Now, my gut says we lynch Joey right now.

This, to me:

Have fun, guys.

Is not what someone who is geninely claiming watcher says.

Anyone agree?

If this is scumJoey, he's probably the goon.

 

[Orboknown]

Just an addendum to karys claiming note- protectives( docs,bodyguards, etc) should be more wary of claiming because noone can protect you.

Will maybe be down to lynch joey at deadline. Seems like pissed off joey to me.

 

[Dooms]

I watched you because you're an IC, therefore an all newbie scum team would probably want you dead. Especially over Gheb that was pretty much a non-presence Day 1.

Have fun as in I'm V/LA and won't be here for the rest of the day phase. Won't be back until the 20th.

Like I said, have fun. Hopefully I'm lynched when I get back so I don't have to play anymore.

If I make it through the night. Bodyguard not on me. I'll be redirected for the rest of the game regardless, so no need to waste your protect on me.

 

[Dooms]

*If I make it to the night.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

@jokeryou said you would look at my slot if bw flipped town. What happened to that?

At the time I was trying to ask you questions, you still weren't being very active, and Kary steered me away from you. When you got active, other people started asking you stuff, and I've pretty much been letting them do their thing since every time I do anything, it apparently becomes a big deal.

I'm hanging back a little more, since I like the pace being set. I don't have to ask questions to read you. If something springs to mind, I'll let ya know.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

wrt masque, I can see him being scum, but if that's the case, I find this claim + declaration of V/LA for the remainder of the day to be kinda ballsy if that's the case. I can definitely see it as him just being pissed off.

I might be down to lynch him if no preferable targets present themselves. Would like to ride out the day a little longer.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Just an addendum to karys claiming note- protectives( docs,bodyguards, etc) should be more wary of claiming because noone can protect you.

Whether you should claim will almost always be affected by what you know, or can reasonably assume, about the setup. Things like how valuable your role is and whether you might be protected will affect this.

As to what you can reasonably assume about a setup... basically it boils down to balance, as it is unusual for there to be a way for one side to win purely through a combination of their roles

 

[Orboknown]

Joker where you gonna look now that joey is v/la

 

[Orboknown]

At the time I was trying to ask you questions, you still weren't being very active, and Kary steered me away from you. When you got active, other people started asking you stuff, and I've pretty much been letting them do their thing since every time I do anything, it apparently becomes a big deal.

I'm hanging back a little more, since I like the pace being set. I don't have to ask questions to read you. If something springs to mind, I'll let ya know.

Can i ask if your read has evolved on my slot?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Will maybe be down to lynch joey at deadline. Seems like pissed off joey to me.

I might be down to lynch him if no preferable targets present themselves. Would like to ride out the day a little longer.

Ugh. Look, pretty much the worst thing we can do is NOT go through counter-claims, then end up lynching town watcher Joey.

If we're confident in scum Joey we should just lynch him, and save the watcher from revealing themselves. If we're not, we should go through counter-claims so that we can clear/condemn Joey.

I take it we're not confident.

I watched you because you're an IC, therefore an all newbie scum team would probably want you dead. Especially over Gheb that was pretty much a non-presence Day 1.

Hmmm.
Why did you suspect an all-newbie scumteam? Did Joker + Ori/BSP/Loli seem particularly likely given the play Day1?
Did your decision to watch me have anything to do with your read on me?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Orbo: did you actually think that it might be SvS? If so, what led you to that?

 

[Orboknown]

@Orbo: did you actually think that it might be SvS? If so, what led you to that?

Was enteraining the possibility, because joey isn't usually this abrasive, nor does he randomly out his role unpressured. Nut its most likely tvt or tvs.

 

[Orboknown]

Ori and loli have less posts than the mod. Da heck.

 

[Dooms]

I didn't suspect an all-newbie team. I suspected that I would have another investigate before becoming useless. I was going to watch either Loli or BSP based on Joker's flip tomorrow and see if I got anything. This was the last thing I was expecting.

It was not based on my read on you. It was based on who I think the mafia would target assuming that you weren't part of the mafia.

 

[Orboknown]

I didn't suspect an all-newbie team. I suspected that I would have another investigate before becoming useless. I was going to watch either Loli or BSP based on Joker's flip tomorrow and see if I got anything. This was the last thing I was expecting.

It was not based on my read on you. It was based on who I think the mafia would target assuming that you weren't part of the mafia.

Wait... Jokers flip tomorrow as in you weren't expecting his lynch today?
Why would you assume kary would be the target if you didn't have a town read on him?

 

[Dooms]

-_-

Tomorrow in the perspective of the night meaning today.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I didn't suspect an all-newbie team. I suspected that I would have another investigate before becoming useless. I was going to watch either Loli or BSP based on Joker's flip tomorrow and see if I got anything. This was the last thing I was expecting.

It was not based on my read on you. It was based on who I think the mafia would target assuming that you weren't part of the mafia.

But why assume I'm not part of the mafia?

What were you expecting to happen toDay?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Can i ask if your read has evolved on my slot?

Yes it has. Initially I saw town intent behind what Rake was doing when pushing badwolf, but the fact that he tunneled him from the get-go made me wonder what this meant on a badwolf townflip. Despite badwolf's townflip, I still only see town intent from your play. If you're scum, you're doing a very good job of hiding it. As of now I have a town read on you.

 

[Orboknown]

Aight, thanks joker.
What do you get from oris play?

 

[Orboknown]

-_-

Tomorrow in the perspective of the night meaning today.

Ohhhhhh ohtay.

 

[Dooms]

I felt that if you weren't part of the mafia, then mafia would have probably targeted you, Kary.

I had you slight town lean (very slight), so I was willing to risk that. Wasn't expecting mafia to go for an inactive. :s.

I was expecting a Joker lynch obviously.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Aight, thanks joker.
What do you get from oris play?

Umm, I get that he's dead? lol

If you mean "what can I gather about other players from what he posted in Day1", then I suppose I'd have to reread a bit.

 

[Orboknown]

OH ****.
Forgot he died.
Replace ori with loli then.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I think Loli was really sheepy through Day1. I didn't really get a scum feel from her though. Today her play has been much better. She's questioning people and pursuing things on her own. For right now, I'm willing to just assume she's not a very strong Day1 player due the lack of content typically present Day1 in most games. Right now I am leaning town on her.

 

[Orboknown]

Alright..
Hm.
Frustrated **** joey-town
Joker-leaning town.
Bsp-town.
Ff-null
Kary-null town.
Loli-null
Anyone else hasn't made a huge impression on me.
An fyi, i usually like to idea bounce off my town reads.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

this game

watcher please counter-claim now

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm not the watcher

please claim watcher/not watcher in your next posts

 

[Orboknown]

Kary if there isn't a counterclaim, who do you want lynched? I don't want an os allstars moment lynching an investigative or protective.

Not watcher.