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Baby_Sneak

Baby_Sneak

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
2,029
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
Dolla Pills said:
The problem is he still has to set up all these projectiles and fast characterslile Fox can just rush into his space and punish him for pulling a bomb. Against slower characters like Peach this works much better, and I'd say he's a perfectly valid choice against Peach even without hypothetical boosts.
Click to expand...
Have the boomerang be faster on startup and on return, while the arrows deal huge shield damage. Boom

Like, just think about it. A character that not only forces you to approach, could theoretically cover any angle, but damages your shield like no other. That character would be soooo lame and disgusting, and soooo much freaking Fun.
 
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Dolla Pills

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
Baby_Sneak said:
Have the boomerang be faster on startup and on return, while the arrows deal huge shield damage. Boom

Like, just think about it. A character that not only forces you to approach, could theoretically cover any angle, but damages your shield like no other. That character would be soooo lame and disgusting, and soooo much freaking Fun.
Click to expand...
You can still hit the boomerang/arrow and it clanks and won't do anything, or you could get good at powershielding.

So I'm thinking about it now and Link in PM is a viable option, but he's certainly not the best character and the meta doesn't revolve around him. If you want to create a hypothetical, ridiculously overpowered character then I don't really see the point.
 
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zero sum

zero sum

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
144
i've been playing seriously for like 5–6 months now (i took a break in the winter) and i've been spending a lot of my off time this summer doing video analysis. i'm not very skilled at it right now and it's a fairly excruciating process but i feel like i'm learning a lot that i can implement in my gameplay whenever i get a setup again

it's sort of embarrassing to think that i'd played this long to come to this revelation, but i just had an epiphany: the punish game is basically “how do i not let this situation reset to neutral?” for the longest time i've been performing braindead combos with fox and i hadn't even taken the time to realize what a combo is and what its purpose is. up tilt to back air is a nice 20–25%, but how can you capitalize even further off of that? you can get more followups if you read what they're going to do or just through positioning. we talk about pressure as something that's not necessarily attack-based; it can be positional. if you look at a lot of mango videos you'll see people like d1 saying similar things. the punish game is similar, though i guess pressure is a subcategory of some bigger thing we call ‘the punish game’; i think when you're shield pressuring with fox you're punishing the opponent for shielding. you could also dd, threatening an aerial, scouting for a sidestep or a roll… movement in itself is a sort of violence you enact on your opponent. right now i'm thinking about combo game and how to resist my opponent's attempts to set the situation back on neutral. you can even read these and capitalize even further. sometimes there's nothing you can really do, but those situations get rarer and rarer as i think about them, especially with characters like fox.

does this make sense? it might be entirely incorrect due to my inexperience but i do think i'm onto something. do correct me if i'm wrong, though; i'd love to talk about this game more.

someone i played against told me that the way i was playing at 5–6 months of serious play was ‘really, really impressive.’ even though i know i have a long way to go until i'm even mid-level, i'm really excited to implement everything that i'm learning into my play at some point. i'm taking notes and i can feel my mental game getting stronger even if i haven't touched a controller in two weeks. i can't wait to improve at this game.
 
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RallzCastz

RallzCastz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Stockholm
Hi all, just made my account here on smash boards. Was just wondering since probably all of you have learned ledge dashing, DI and all that stuff, how did you learn it and do you have any good videos or links on how i can learn it fast? Also, about playing smash melee online, how does that work? I can find it myself if its too much to ask for ':D
 
J

Johns

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
18
3DS FC
4398-9025-5860
RallzCastz said:
Hi all, just made my account here on smash boards. Was just wondering since probably all of you have learned ledge dashing, DI and all that stuff, how did you learn it and do you have any good videos or links on how i can learn it fast? Also, about playing smash melee online, how does that work? I can find it myself if its too much to ask for ':D
Click to expand...
whats up dude! nice to see you. ill try to find a basic competitive guide for you. Im pretty sure melee online isn't a thing. although i think there is online for project M
 
Spak

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
RallzCastz said:
cool, so does that work with like emulator or do you like connect your gamecube in some weird way? :o
Click to expand...
With an emulator. Here is the general discussion for Netplay and 4.0-5886 is the most recent common build for Dolphin Netplay. Anther's Ladder sort of serves as a ranking system for netplay if you ever feel like using it in a competitive manner. Also, you can use a Wii U adapter on a PC if you have the right driver.
 
RallzCastz

RallzCastz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Stockholm
Spak said:
With an emulator. Here is the general discussion for Netplay and 4.0-5886 is the most recent common build for Dolphin Netplay. Anther's Ladder sort of serves as a ranking system for netplay if you ever feel like using it in a competitive manner. Also, you can use a Wii U adapter on a PC if you have the right driver.
Click to expand...
awesome! thanks man, gotta get an adapter tho :/ is the dolphin netplay alot different from a normal gamecube, in terms of like character moves and such?
 
J

Johns

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
18
3DS FC
4398-9025-5860
RallzCastz said:
awesome! thanks man, gotta get an adapter tho :/ is the dolphin netplay alot different from a normal gamecube, in terms of like character moves and such?
Click to expand...
if you wanna learn sm4sh tech i recommend you check out My Smash Corner on youtube
 
Spak

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
RallzCastz said:
awesome! thanks man, gotta get an adapter tho :/ is the dolphin netplay alot different from a normal gamecube, in terms of like character moves and such?
Click to expand...
Yeah, whenever you get Dolphin, you should download a ROM of Melee 1.02. It's the exact same thing as normal, but how fast it will run depends on your computer.
 
Wreckarooni

Wreckarooni

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
197
Location
Midwest
Mango's face when he beats Hax on stream using Captain Falcon and Marth, Hax was not amused.


 
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lolazerz

lolazerz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
255
Location
Southern California
NNID
Lolazerz
Anyone know which version of the Melee I'm supposed to use for Net-play tourneys? NTSC right? also anyone know why on Dolphin (my version at least) the Community Net-play Melee ISO, has no AR codes. So I can't enable net-play with it and I'm not sure it works
 
Chainz

Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
Premium
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
9,496
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Las Vegas, NV
3DS FC
1075-1816-9029
Anyone know some good ways to phsyc out your opponent during tournaments? Something to give you that mental advatage by having them in a mind ****?

I don't mean like wavedashing a bait. More of an true psychological approach.
 
Wreckarooni

Wreckarooni

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
197
Location
Midwest
Z0RR0 said:
Anyone know some good ways to phsyc out your opponent during tournaments? Something to give you that mental advatage by having them in a mind ****?

I don't mean like wavedashing a bait. More of an true psychological approach.
Click to expand...
Right as the match starts say loudly and confidently "Hang on let me make this fair" and then kill yourself 3 times. Finally lean over to them real close and whisper "Okay are you ready?"
 
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Chainz

Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
Premium
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
9,496
Location
Las Vegas, NV
3DS FC
1075-1816-9029
Wreckarooni said:
Right as the match starts say loudly and confidently "Hang on let me make this fair" and then kill yourself 3 times. Finally lean over to them real close and whisper "Okay are you ready?"
Click to expand...
Seem a little a risky? Don't you think homie? Haha
 
AEMehr

AEMehr

Mii Fighter
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zero sum

zero sum

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
144
what do you do when you're analyzing videos?

i'm fairly new to all of this but i think it'll help me since my neutral game is pretty poor. i don't have a functional setup right now and i live at bare minimum about half an hour from where most of the bigger tournaments are held and i'm broke so playing people usually isn't an option. not to say that i couldn't learn from them or that i wouldn't want to play against them; i just don't really have the means to travel so far to play in tournaments right now and i don't know how ‘worth it’ it'd be to save up some gas money and go to, like, pittsburgh, which is about 60–70 miles from where i live. i can get practice with better people and probably learn more when i'm back in chicago and do things that are more pressing or exciting to me over the summer. i think that's reasonable.

but anyways. one of the things that i find is that, because i'm a new player (i say this every post and soon enough i'm gonna have to find another john lol), i have to watch a video more than once if i really want to get anything meaningful out of it. at least once just for entertainment purposes or because i'm just tired, then once again, then finally i can start analyzing. so that's usually at least three times before i start getting what's going on in the video. here's a list of things that i generally look for [in spoilers for the sake of everyone who doesn't want to read this]:

– why did this player get hit?
-> fairly self-explanatory: did they overextend? did they just make some tech error? why did they get punished?
– how did the other person get out of the punish or a possible extension of the punish? was it possible for the other player to extend the punish?
-> again, fairly explanatory: watch for di, sdi, jumping out, etc. is there a way for the other player to continue the punish? punishment is more than just getting hits off: it's also a positional thing. if they do, how does the person on the offense use positional advantage to continue a sequence or force the opponent's hand? how can the person on the defense escape? if the same punish happens more than once in the same game, does the person who's got the momentum control space in the same way after the punish?
– how does each player control space?
-> i'm not going to make broad, generalizing statements about spacing but i think this is pretty self-explanatory too. for example, one of the things that i've noticed when watching certain falcos play vs fox is that they'll try to control the edges of the platforms sometimes like throwing out a shine on the inner edge of one of the side platforms if they think the fox will jump trying to avoid a laser or something like that. so i guess one of the questions i have to ask is how certain players control space and whether or not that's effective.
– what is the move they're throwing out going to do?
-> i think one of the smartest things i've ever heard from a commentator was in a set scar was on the mic for. since i don't have the exact set he said this in on hand i'm obliged to paraphrase: ‘yeah, you can hit with a neutral air, but what are you going to do with it?’ and that completely changed the way i view things. i'm an ex-peach/samus main and i'll admit that i'm very guilty of sometimes tossing out random cc downsmashes when my opponent's at like 30%… as fox. i guess one of the things that i feel like people, especially at my level, don't think about when they throw out hitboxes is intention. like i think one of the things that i want to ask myself every time i throw out a hitbox or attempt a grab is: am i trying to play my game or am i simply trying to stop my opponent from playing theirs? obviously that's not really a dichotomy since if you're playing your game of course you're stopping your opponent from playing theirs, but i feel like you have to throw out hitboxes that you know will convert into something most of the time. obviously you'll never be able to throw out a nair with yoshi and be able to reliably zero-to-death off of it—you do have to play the defensive game every once in a while—but i feel like you have to ask yourself what you're trying to do with your hits.

am i on the right track?

is this an effective manner of analyzing matches? are these questions too general? are there other things that i should be looking for? also: is there a better place to ask about stuff like this? thanks!
 
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lolazerz

lolazerz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
255
Location
Southern California
NNID
Lolazerz
zero sum said:
what do you do when you're analyzing videos?

i'm fairly new to all of this but i think it'll help me since my neutral game is pretty poor. i don't have a functional setup right now and i live at bare minimum about half an hour from where most of the bigger tournaments are held and i'm broke so playing people usually isn't an option. not to say that i couldn't learn from them or that i wouldn't want to play against them; i just don't really have the means to travel so far to play in tournaments right now and i don't know how ‘worth it’ it'd be to save up some gas money and go to, like, pittsburgh, which is about 60–70 miles from where i live. i can get practice with better people and probably learn more when i'm back in chicago and do things that are more pressing or exciting to me over the summer. i think that's reasonable.

but anyways. one of the things that i find is that, because i'm a new player (i say this every post and soon enough i'm gonna have to find another john lol), i have to watch a video more than once if i really want to get anything meaningful out of it. at least once just for entertainment purposes or because i'm just tired, then once again, then finally i can start analyzing. so that's usually at least three times before i start getting what's going on in the video. here's a list of things that i generally look for [in spoilers for the sake of everyone who doesn't want to read this]:

– why did this player get hit?
-> fairly self-explanatory: did they overextend? did they just make some tech error? why did they get punished?
– how did the other person get out of the punish or a possible extension of the punish? was it possible for the other player to extend the punish?
-> again, fairly explanatory: watch for di, sdi, jumping out, etc. is there a way for the other player to continue the punish? punishment is more than just getting hits off: it's also a positional thing. if they do, how does the person on the offense use positional advantage to continue a sequence or force the opponent's hand? how can the person on the defense escape? if the same punish happens more than once in the same game, does the person who's got the momentum control space in the same way after the punish?
– how does each player control space?
-> i'm not going to make broad, generalizing statements about spacing but i think this is pretty self-explanatory too. for example, one of the things that i've noticed when watching certain falcos play vs fox is that they'll try to control the edges of the platforms sometimes like throwing out a shine on the inner edge of one of the side platforms if they think the fox will jump trying to avoid a laser or something like that. so i guess one of the questions i have to ask is how certain players control space and whether or not that's effective.
– what is the move they're throwing out going to do?
-> i think one of the smartest things i've ever heard from a commentator was in a set scar was on the mic for. since i don't have the exact set he said this in on hand i'm obliged to paraphrase: ‘yeah, you can hit with a neutral air, but what are you going to do with it?’ and that completely changed the way i view things. i'm an ex-peach/samus main and i'll admit that i'm very guilty of sometimes tossing out random cc downsmashes when my opponent's at like 30%… as fox. i guess one of the things that i feel like people, especially at my level, don't think about when they throw out hitboxes is intention. like i think one of the things that i want to ask myself every time i throw out a hitbox or attempt a grab is: am i trying to play my game or am i simply trying to stop my opponent from playing theirs? obviously that's not really a dichotomy since if you're playing your game of course you're stopping your opponent from playing theirs, but i feel like you have to throw out hitboxes that you know will convert into something most of the time. obviously you'll never be able to throw out a nair with yoshi and be able to reliably zero-to-death off of it—you do have to play the defensive game every once in a while—but i feel like you have to ask yourself what you're trying to do with your hits.

am i on the right track?

is this an effective manner of analyzing matches? are these questions too general? are there other things that i should be looking for? also: is there a better place to ask about stuff like this? thanks!
Click to expand...

You're like a cute little baby M2K in the making, and to answer your question. Yes. You are most definaly on the right path
 
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