Melee Version Differences Master Compilation

[Strong Badam]

The weak hit has the same trajectory. The difference in KB could make it seem like it sends differently due to how falling speed would affect it.

 

[ajp_anton]

Thought there would be more HRC differences, but I realized most differences are just meter vs feet mode differences =). I also think I know more "misc" differences, but I'm too tired right now. I also probably missed when I copied stuff from your list...
Did some research and Tamagon apparently exists in the American versions too, which makes sense having the US and *** versions identical.

The layout could still be tweaked a bit, but this was my general idea anyway. It unfortunately requires some scrolling, but I think it's still pretty easy to read and you don't need to click to see each part of it.
I'm also a little inconsistent with for example "in PAL" and "(PAL)", maybe I'll fix it later...

----------------

Bowser

• 
  - Weighs 117 (NTSC), 118 (PAL)
  - Can use Flame Cancel (NTSC 1.0, 1.1).
  - Down throw speed is based on opponent's weight. G&W and Jigglypuff have the damaging frame skipped (NTSC).

Captain Falcon

• 
  - Rapid jab starts automatically after 3 taps on A, unless canceled (NTSC).
  - Weak knee does 3% (PAL), 6% (NTSC). Base knockback is 35 (NTSC), 30 (PAL).

Donkey Kong

• 
  - Doesn't lose Giant Punch charge if hit during up+B (PAL).

Dr. Mario
Falco

• 
  - Aerial down+A's late weak hit does not spike in PAL.
  - Down throw can be teched by Fox (PAL).

Fox

• 
  - Weighs 75 (NTSC), 73 (PAL)
  - Can tech Falco's down throw (PAL).
  - Up smash does 18% (NTSC), 17% (PAL) and has less knockback (PAL).
  - Down smash does 15% (NTSC), 13% (PAL) and has less knockback (PAL).
  - Up+B does 14% (NTSC), 12% (PAL) and travels a shorter distance in PAL.

Ganondorf

• 
  - Aerial down+A does 22% (NTSC), 21% (PAL) and has less knockback (PAL).
  - Aerial forward+A has base knockback 60 (NTSC), 40 (PAL).
  - Aerial neutral+A's second hit hits on frames 16-17 (NTSC 1.0), 20-21 (all others).

Ice Climbers

• 
  - Can use Freeze Glitch (NTSC 1.0, 1.1)

Jigglypuff

• 
  - Weighs 60, skips the damaging frame of Bowser's down throw (NTSC).

Kirby

• 
  - Weighs 70 (NTSC), 74 (PAL)
  - Running speed is 1.4 (NTSC), 1.5 (PAL).
  - Dash attack does 8% (NTSC), 9% (PAL) but has less knockback (PAL).
  - Aerial forward+A has landing lag 20 (NTSC), 18 (PAL).

Link

• 
  - Can use Super Jump (NTSC 1.0, 1.1).
  - Up+B's late weak hit is a semi-spike (NTSC).

Luigi
Mario

• 
  - Weighs 100 (NTSC), 98 (PAL)

Marth

• 
  - Weighs 87 (NTSC), 85 (PAL)
  - Maximum aerial velocity is 0.90 (NTSC), 0.85 (PAL).
  - Aerial down+A can be meteor cancelled (PAL).
  - Aerial down+A goes straight down instead of slightly forward (PAL).

Mewtwo
Mr. Game & Watch

• 
  - Weighs 60, skips the damaging frame of Bowser's down throw (NTSC).

Ness

• 
  - Up and Down smashes can be charged while standing over a ledge (NTSC 1.0).

Peach
Pichu
Pikachu
Roy
Samus

• 
  - Can use Extended Grapple Beam (NTSC).
  - Can bomb jump out of grapple beam (NTSC).

Sheik

• 
  - Up Smash tipper does 17% (NTSC), 16% (PAL).
  - Down throw has trajectory 80 (NTSC), 60 (PAL).
  - Aerial up+A does 12% (NTSC), 10% (PAL).

Yoshi

• 
  - Weighs 108 (NTSC), 111 (PAL)
  - Forward Smash does 16% (NTSC), 17% (PAL).
  - Up smash does 14% (NTSC), 15% (PAL).
  - Aerial down+A does 51% (NTSC), 38% (PAL).

Young Link

• 
  - Can use Super Jump (NTSC 1.0, 1.1)

Zelda

Misc

• 
  - When holding B while the game starts, in NTSC it asks for progressive scan, in PAL it asks for 60Hz or 50Hz.
  
  - PAL version languages: English, German, French, Spanish, Italian
  - NTSC version languages: Japanese, English
  
  - The special videos are gone in PAL.
  
  - Distances are measured in meters, but converted to feet in English mode in NTSC.
  
  - Hits that do less than 1% damage can't be SDI'd (NTSC 1.0).
  
  - Home-run Contest stage ends at 1388.8m/4556.6ft in feet mode, 1518.8m/4983.1ft in meters mode (NTSC 1.0)
  - Home-run Contest stage ends at 3458.5m/11347.2ft in feet mode, 3457.9m/11345.2ft in meters mode (all other versions). PAL lacks the feet mode though.
  - The Sandbag cannot be hit once it lands on the Home-run field in PAL.
  
  - The Daisy trophy has a third eye in the back of her head in NTSC.
  - The Tamagon trophy was removed from the PAL version.
  
  - The name tag's on-screen position lags by one frame in NTSC.
  - The name tag temporarily disappears when you die in PAL.
  - Instead of japanese characters, the PAL version allows some non-english letters, lower case letters, and a number of symbols in the name tag.
  
  - The character's watermark behind the % display is more transparent in PAL.
  - The character's stock icons (as well as the target icons in Target Test) are smaller and positioned slightly lower in PAL.
  
  - In Training mode, the CPU taunts every time you leave the pause menu.
  - In Training mode, the menu text has different fonts between NTSC and PAL, different layouts ("Total damage" on two separate lines in PAL), and their boxes have adaptive width in NTSC and fixed in PAL.
  
  - Rainbow Cruise was renamed Rainbow Ride in PAL.
  - The three past stages don't have the "64" in their names in the stage select menu in NTSC.

 

[Varist]

now that i'm home i can finish adding all of SBs stuff and all of your stuff AJP

yayyyy, more completions om nom

HOLD ON: Contesting that Pichu thing. I just tested it several times in v1.2 and Pichu gets hit by Boozer's d-throw. Other versions maybe?

 

[Strong Badam]

is the Ganondorf Up-B thing in NTSC 1.02, AJP?

 

[ajp_anton]

Also add
- Instead of japanese characters, the PAL version allows some non-english letters, lower case letters, and a number of symbols in the name tag.

Hm, so if Pichu does get hit, the throw speed isn't the answer?

Strong Bad:
I don't know which version I've been playing "IRL" (I only have 1.0 on my computer) I think it's 1.2 but nore sure. Should be easy to check for someone with 1.2, is the up+B slower against heavier characters?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

IIRC, a stadium player once told me that Peach can angle her up-B a bit more in PAL; apparently this is important in some 10MM strat.

 

[Varist]

Strong Bad, AJP says that the Tamagon trophy is available everywhere but PAL, and I've got another source (the wiki) saying it's only available in Japan, but hackable in all NTSC versions. Actually, is that what you meant in your first paragraph AJP? You can also verify that Tamagon is only hackable? Have a clue/know someone who does?

 

[Anand]

Hm, so if Pichu does get hit, the throw speed isn't the answer?

I think it is just throw speed. You skip the one damaging frame if you scale the throw speed for weight 60, but not for weight 55.

 

[ajp_anton]

Wait. I just tested Ganondorf's up+B on my 1.0 and it's the same speed for Pichu and Bowser.
So nevermind on that, maybe it's 1.0 I've been playing and confused it with PAL's up+B (the <1% hitlags), and the people I've been playing with also had it wrong. So just forget about that one =).

Does anyone actually know how Tamagon is unlocked in the japanese games? It's ARable in my US 1.0.

Edited my long post with Pichu and Ganondorf, and the lower case name tag thing.


About the <1% hitlag, I remember seeing some hitlag formula somewhere, and IIRC it doesn't include a special case for <1% hits. Is the formula different for 1.0, and are there more hitlag differences than just the <1% ones?

 

[Varist]

edit: guess it wasn't a double post.
edit: if the ganon issue is cleared up then GREAT

On Yoshi: The old thread was giving me 51% on NTSC's dair and 38% on PAL's. You're claiming it's 1% more than that for both AJP. I don't know how to properly test this myself (yoshi falls too fast)

 

[ajp_anton]

OK I need to go to sleep before I do anything more stupid (it's 7:10 here).
They do 52% and 39% in combination with other stuff in HRC, but those "other stuff" give the sandbag another <1% boost, making it look like the dair did more damage.
Tested both and they are 51% and 38%...

 

[Strong Badam]

Strong Bad, AJP says that the Tamagon trophy is available everywhere but PAL, and I've got another source (the wiki) saying it's only available in Japan, but hackable in all NTSC versions. Actually, is that what you meant in your first paragraph AJP? You can also verify that Tamagon is only hackable? Have a clue/know someone who does?

Dude I don't care about trophies, it's the gameplay differences I give a **** about. LOL

AJP: Yeah it's the <1% hitlag causing it on Ganon's Up-B then. It's slow in 1.02, and the "throw" is not weight-dependent.

 

[Varist]

omg trophies matter why else would u play vs melee for a billion hours

that's why we hold tournaments noob, to get as many matches played as we can on as many memory cards as possible so we can get super mega secret trophy

 

[Strong Badam]

additionally, as far as Yoshi's dair goes: it's affected by staling quite a bit, I could give you the unstale numbers for the hitboxes in both versions if desired. a change in a hitbox by 1% for a move that loops so damn long would indeed change it by 13%

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm a PAL player and I have Doshin the Giant and Sheriff trophies.

 

[ajp_anton]

Dude I don't care about trophies, it's the gameplay differences I give a **** about. LOL

AJP: Yeah it's the <1% hitlag causing it on Ganon's Up-B then. It's slow in 1.02, and the "throw" is not weight-dependent.

But we still want a complete list.

Yes I noticed the speed was the same for Pichu and Bowser, so we must've somehow compared his 1.0 up+B on a light character with his PAL up+B on a heavy character and thought it was weight dependent...

additionally, as far as Yoshi's dair goes: it's affected by staling quite a bit, I could give you the unstale numbers for the hitboxes in both versions if desired. a change in a hitbox by 1% for a move that loops so damn long would indeed change it by 13%

I think his dair is very close to *exactly* 3.0% in PAL and 4.0% in NTSC per hit, 14 hits total. Multiple hits of the same move doesn't stale nearly as much as repeating the move itself, but they do a little =).

I'm a PAL player and I have Doshin the Giant and Sheriff trophies.

That's why I said I think the removal of Tamagon is the only difference in PAL, as I myself have 291 trophies, only missing Diskun (I AR'd the two "secret" ones).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

At one point I had 100% completion excluding some of the bonus messages and the AR trophies. It was an unofficial memory card though and it got corrupted :/

I'm thinking of doing a 99% theatrical speed-run of Melee some time and recording/streaming it.

Not the most interesting run though so it'd need commentary.

 

[Varist]

awesome, changing the trophy info

 

[ajp_anton]

Looking at your list of red items:

- The target icons in Target Test are smaller and positioned slightly lower in (PAL) compared to (All NTSC)
Look at this and this, pause them on the first frame and switch between the two to see the difference. You see the targets, the stock icons, and the watermark differences, as well as the weird name tag bug in NTSC, all in one =).

- The CPU taunts every time the pause menu is exited (????)
Probably another one of my late night mistakes. I read this somewhere, and I was sure I've seen it myself at some point, so I just believed it without checking. Now when I checked with my 1.0, it's not true. Argh...

- The HUD menu is fixed (PAL)
Not sure what "HUD" means, this sounds weird without context from the line above. The text box widths are fixed compared to the varying widths in NTSC.

- The Helerin trophy is incorrectly named the Hererin (All NTSC)
This is wrong. It's called Heririn in both NTSc and PAL.

- The Sheriff trophy (Japan only) is renamed Bandido (All NTSC)
It's called Sheriff in both NTSC and PAL. I think the misconception comes from the fact that, I'm guessing, the game "Sheriff" which the trophy says was only released in Japan DID appear in the US but with the name Bandido instead. Or something...

- Doshin the Gian trophy is only available in Japan & with PAL
The two trophies are called Love Giant and Hate Giant, and are in both NTSC and PAL.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I think its worth checking for differences with the NPC characters...

The Wireframes, Sandbag (I doubt there are any for this), Master Hand, Crazy Hand and Giga Bowser.

 

[Varist]

Incorporated all of your changes AJP, do you know if it's all versions of NTSC that remove his Up B if he gets hit, and I still want another source of which versions link's boomerang thing works just to be safe

 

[ajp_anton]

- The name tag input allows some non-English letters, lower-case letters, and some symbols (PAL)
Maybe it's easier to write it like this:
- The name tag input allows the alphabets of all available languages, both upper and lower case, as well as 18 adiitional symbols not available before (PAL).

Also, another difference, but this starts to take it too far maybe as there are probably hundreds of similar tiny differences:
- The letters in the name tag input screen are closer to the middle of their respective boxes in PAL than in NTSC.


What do you mean "remove his Up B if he gets hit"?

Another question about the <1% hits:
It says trajectory DI is also disabled. Why? Are you sure? This shouldn't have anything to do with hitlag afaik.


edit:
Maybe I worded the training mode visual differences slightly wrong (not that it matters). This is how it looks like:
Info boxes NTSC
Info boxes PAL
Menu boxes NTSC
Menu boxes PAL
It also looks like the stars are slightly different on FD, haha =). Or it's because of emulator errors, so don't write that down just yet...

 

[Bones0]

- When holding B while the game starts, in NTSC it asks for progressive scan, in PAL it asks for 60Hz or 50Hz.

What does this mean?

 

[ajp_anton]

Which one?

The NTSC version supports 480p60 and 480i60 NTSC.
The PAL version supports 576i50 PAL and 480i60 PAL60.

When starting the console, before the game starts, if you hold B the game will ask you to choose the format.
At least in PAL, the console remembers the last setting and will automatically display this question if 60Hz was used the last time, and 60Hz is selected by default. If you choose 50Hz, you will have to hold B to get 60Hz the next time.

 

[The Star King]

IIRC the computer taunts after pausing in training mode if it got the last kill on you. Not sure about version difference but it works in 1.0.

 

[ajp_anton]

Aha, thanks. Tested with 1.0 (to see how to reproduce it) and PAL.
In 1.0 the CPU tauns after it killed you, and after that every time you leave the pause menu. In PAL the CPU never taunts.

 

[Bones0]

Which one?

The NTSC version supports 480p60 and 480i60 NTSC.
The PAL version supports 576i50 PAL and 480i60 PAL60.

When starting the console, before the game starts, if you hold B the game will ask you to choose the format.
At least in PAL, the console remembers the last setting and will automatically display this question if 60Hz was used the last time, and 60Hz is selected by default. If you choose 50Hz, you will have to hold B to get 60Hz the next time.

Wow, I've somehow NEVER seen this. Is this the same as the thing in the Options menu, and are there any differences of game play based on whether you choose 480p or 480i (such as input lag)?

 

[ajp_anton]

There's nothing in the options menu that changes the video format. If you mean deflicker, that's something else. Tried to explain it in this post but it became too much off-topic so I'm skipping it... * =)

There's no input lag difference between 480i and 480p, that's entirely up to the TV, although 480p might actually be easier for the TV to process. Explaining the difference is again too much off-topic*, but basically it's just an image quality thing, 480p being the better choice.

* I tend to explain stuff "from scratch" assuming no previous knowledge of the matter, so it often gets pretty long...

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I was thinking of deflicker. I didn't really care about any differences outside of the input lag. Thanks.

 

[ajp_anton]

Random remark: I usually see deflicker off more often on American tournaments than European. The advantage of having it off is a slightly sharper image, advantage of having it on is it's easier on the eye (less flickering, duh), and it's much more easier to process when recording.

Varist:
- Distances are measured in meters (PAL)
- Distances are converted to feet in English mode (All NTSC)
The way I worded this before was to point out the fact that the game internally processes everything in meters, always, even in NTSC. It's just displayed in feet in NTSC english mode, but it's still only at 0.1 meter's precision, skipping every 0.3 or 0.4 feet. So for example 0.1 feet doesn't exist.
Try to explain that as compact as possible =).

 

[Nintendude]

IIRC, a stadium player once told me that Peach can angle her up-B a bit more in PAL; apparently this is important in some 10MM strat.

I think I might have mentioned that to you. I used to hold the world record for that. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Peach can angle her up-B more in 1.0 and 1.1 than in 1.2 and PAL. It's the same for Mario.

There's also something funky about multi-hits in 1.2 and PAL. It's most obvious with Samus's up-B but it also affects Ice Climber's blizzard, Zelda's Smashes, Roy's up-B, etc.

1.0 and 1.1 also have a glitch in saving Multi-Man Melee scores. If you play one of the clone characters (Doc, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Ganon, Falco) then your score gets overwritten immediately, even if you quit out of it (your score will be 0 in that case). If you play a clone character and then play another clone character, I believe you can transfer identical scores between characters. I forget the exact specifics of this though. Additionally, in 1.0 and 1.1, the announcer doesn't say "A New Record!" even if you do in fact get a new record. The way people get around these annoyances is to play without the memory card in, and then insert it to save only if you get a new record.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Okay, cool. The bit about the multi-hits is due to the following:

Global mechanic: In NTSC 1.00 and 1.01, if a hitbox stales below 1% damage (e.g. Samus Up-B, Peach Up-B, Zelda F-Smash initial hits), hitlag will be 0 frames, making SDI & Trajectory DI impossible.

 

[ajp_anton]

OK so what's the list of things to check out?
Peach's and Mario's up+B angles. Also I think I remember something about Samus's up+B, like you can fastfall earlier in some version. Oh and "trajectory" DI on <1% hits in 1.0.
Anything else?

 

[stelzig]

I think I was the one who originally claimed that Mario couldn't angle his UpB as far because my time was relatively bad compared to my other scores in 10-man melee. Would be funny if it turns out to be wrong, but I really never could get it angled that well for the last wave.

As for CPU never taunting in PAL?... I'm pretty certain it does, even Nana taunts at random. Or maybe you're only talking about training mode?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He was only talking about training mode, CPUs DEFINITELY taunt in PAL.

 

[stelzig]

Yeah I figured. I just got confused by the whole "getting killed" part.

 

[ajp_anton]

Yeah, I was talking about training mode. CPUs there never taunt, in VS mode I don't think there's any difference between versions.

- The Home-Run Contest stage ends at 11347.2ft (3458.5m) in Feet Mode, and 3457.9m (11345.2ft) in Meters Mode (1.1, 1.2 NTSC)
The PAL version has the same meters mode as the newer NTSC versions, which ends at 3457.9m.

 

[Nintendude]

I think I was the one who originally claimed that Mario couldn't angle his UpB as far because my time was relatively bad compared to my other scores in 10-man melee. Would be funny if it turns out to be wrong, but I really never could get it angled that well for the last wave.

As for CPU never taunting in PAL?... I'm pretty certain it does, even Nana taunts at random. Or maybe you're only talking about training mode?

I'm pretty sure it's true because even the best 10MM players couldn't get a good Mario score if they were PAL or version 1.2. I believe Ravenyte and Dr.M only improved their Mario scores when they got their hands on a 1.0 or 1.1.

 

[Bones0]

It's insane how many of these things I vaguely remember being confused by (Mario's up-B angle, FF out of Samus up-B, etc.). Kind of insane I've played the game enough to have registered these differences...

 

[Varist]

Updating the thread later tonight, been berry bizzy