Melee Will Return For CEO 2015, Project M Dropped, Smash 4 Likely

[GHNeko]

You really dont even have to go that far.

It's something that thousands of people enjoy and something that hundreds of people enjoy enough to travel around the country for. It's made its presence known amongst non-official non-nintendo based GRASSROOTS tournaments and has successfully developed a scene, a following, a fanbase, while receiving multitudes of coverage.

Who the **** wouldnt be bothered by having a game with all these qualifications (Brawl, Melee, Smash 4, are 3 examples), suddenly removed from a large scale grassroots tourney out of the blue when their game had a very successful run last year?

What I don't get is how people don't understand it.

"oh its a mod tho" doesnt matter because a majority of tourneys that PM has featured at were all grass root tourneys.

And like people have said, it being a mod doesnt detract from its inherent merit as something that people enjoy and as a quality product.

All "mod" is, is a trait that is inherent with Project M.

 

[Azureflames]

I just saw this post right after posting mine. Huh, talk about instantly losing depression.

Not exactly sure what you mean by "talk about instantly losing depression"?

It is still a mod of Brawl created in order to make most of the game's mechanics more like Melee. Also, as said in the article, only two Super Smash Bros. games would be available due to a lack of extra resources and time, so it doesn't make sense to be angry about Project M not being one of them. People are overreacting.

On a side note, I have a feeling that some don't want Super Smash Bros. 4 to have a successful competitive scene because it is not similar enough to Melee.

I was only trying to point out the POV of a lot of people, not saying that PM needs or deserves the spot over smash4. I understand the reasoning behind why it's not on the bill and im not angry (only a bit disappointed, like many of the people speaking out about it). People are somewhat overreacting to some degree, but on the other hand do deserve to be a little disappointed since it was a thing last year. People really should have expected it anyway...apparently it was already a thing that was brought up months ago.

You're right, im sure there are many that hate smash4 to the core for all the wrong reasons; same goes for PM and Melee players hating on any game not theirs. For instance there are things i like and dislike about smash4. I personally like the fast finger AT's as they make me feel more in control of my character. My biggest gripe with smash4 personally is that there's no dash dancing or wavedashing as that's what i'm used to (no l-cancels are perfectly understandable and none of these were even expected honestly). It's a poor excuse in some sense but basically relearning a new game with very very different mechanics and gameplay wasn't worth investing my time in.

Most peoples thoughts aren't that they dont want it to have a successful competitive scene, it's that they just don't think the game has the depth to make it as successfully competitive as some may wanna believe. Most think it'll have the same kinda success as brawl; it may be true, it might totally be wrong...we wont know for a while *shrug*

I think it is still missing the point I am trying to make. We are in the FGC. New versions of games come out every few years.

This is not like traditional sports, like football, where you played the game 15 years ago, and can still play the game now. And guess what? your kids and their kids will still play the same game.

While say PM, or SF3, or any old game, they will get old, and newer and younger players will never get exposed to them. The young ones will play SF5 growing up. Will get interest of getting good in FG once SF6 comes out. and compete when SF6 Ultra comes out. At that point, their kids will grow up playing SF7. What will happen to SF4 players at that time?

You can argue that PM is ever evolving but it will still get old. Young ones are now growing up in Smash4. It is marketed. it is in the current gen systems. it is in the toy stores. it is in the billboards. and TV ads.

sooner or later the audience of the old games will dwindle down. new players will play the new game, some old players will play the new game.

It is the environment we play in, and that's normal. Almost all competitive games are replaced by new versions of the games. Melee is one of the the exceptions, not the rule.

You have a point. I guess it's really hard to tell for sure though. There's nothing to say that when the final version of PM is released that it won't hold up for a long time and have the same longevity. But like you said, it's possible that it'll only hold up to those already playing the game and not new smashers. The new next gen console games will naturally always get more of the general public due to publicity and marketing. All in all you're probably right but we dont know for sure.

 

[Azureflames]

I just saw this post right after posting mine. Huh, talk about instantly losing depression.

Not exactly sure what you mean by "talk about instantly losing depression"?

It is still a mod of Brawl created in order to make most of the game's mechanics more like Melee. Also, as said in the article, only two Super Smash Bros. games would be available due to a lack of extra resources and time, so it doesn't make sense to be angry about Project M not being one of them. People are overreacting.

On a side note, I have a feeling that some don't want Super Smash Bros. 4 to have a successful competitive scene because it is not similar enough to Melee.

I was only trying to point out the POV of a lot of people, not saying that PM needs or deserves the spot over smash4. I understand the reasoning behind why it's not on the bill and im not angry (only a bit disappointed, like many of the people speaking out about it). People are somewhat overreacting to some degree, but on the other hand do deserve to be a little disappointed since it was a thing last year. People really should have expected it anyway...apparently it was already a thing that was brought up months ago.

You're right, im sure there are many that hate smash4 to the core for all the wrong reasons; same goes for PM and Melee players hating on any game not theirs. For instance there are things i like and dislike about smash4. I personally like the fast finger AT's as they make me feel more in control of my character. My biggest gripe with smash4 personally is that there's no dash dancing or wavedashing as that's what i'm used to (no l-cancels are perfectly understandable and none of these were even expected honestly). It's a poor excuse in some sense but basically relearning a new game with very very different mechanics and gameplay wasn't worth investing my time in.

Most peoples thoughts aren't that they dont want it to have a successful competitive scene, it's that they just don't think the game has the depth to make it as successfully competitive as some may wanna believe. Most think it'll have the same kinda success as brawl; it may be true, it might totally be wrong...we wont know for a while *shrug*

I think it is still missing the point I am trying to make. We are in the FGC. New versions of games come out every few years.

This is not like traditional sports, like football, where you played the game 15 years ago, and can still play the game now. And guess what? your kids and their kids will still play the same game.

While say PM, or SF3, or any old game, they will get old, and newer and younger players will never get exposed to them. The young ones will play SF5 growing up. Will get interest of getting good in FG once SF6 comes out. and compete when SF6 Ultra comes out. At that point, their kids will grow up playing SF7. What will happen to SF4 players at that time?

You can argue that PM is ever evolving but it will still get old. Young ones are now growing up in Smash4. It is marketed. it is in the current gen systems. it is in the toy stores. it is in the billboards. and TV ads.

sooner or later the audience of the old games will dwindle down. new players will play the new game, some old players will play the new game.

It is the environment we play in, and that's normal. Almost all competitive games are replaced by new versions of the games. Melee is one of the the exceptions, not the rule.

You have a point. I guess it's really hard to tell for sure though. There's nothing to say that when the final version of PM is released that it won't hold up for a long time and have the same longevity. But like you said, it's possible that it'll only hold up to those already playing the game and not new smashers. The new next gen console games will naturally always get more of the general public due to publicity and marketing. All in all you're probably right but we dont know for sure.

 

[Alex Night]

Seeing Project M being dropped out really makes my day.

You know what makes my day? Getting a Shield Break on Jigglypuff. Da bess.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Why should a mod have more priority over the latest installment in a series?

Not saying that PM will be replaced in the near future, but I think it's understandable that Sm4sh should get put in over PM.

 

[No_Skillz]

It's not always the way for new games to replace previous.

I hear there's this fighting game from 2001 still being played, even though it's the 2nd in the series and the 4th just came out.

I heard about that game, the metagame has already been maxed out and the same 5 people have been winning majors with the same 5 characters for the past 5 years, I cant believe ppl aren't bored of it yet

 

[WinterShorts]

Not exactly sure what you mean by "talk about instantly losing depression"?

OK, maybe that was a wrong choice of words.

What I mean was I was typing about PM dying, then I saw your post, and then I quickly gained hope from your post. Does that make things more clearer?

 

[GHNeko]

Why should a mod have more priority over the latest installment in a series?

Not saying that PM will be replaced in the near future, but I think it's understandable that Sm4sh should get put in over PM.

No it's not.

Smash 4 deserves nothing over PM in grassroot tourneys. This is why Melee got featured over Brawl in EVO, despite Brawl being the latest game at that point in time.

Unless there is some Nintendo Coins being put into the tourney, or the TO has some sort of legit connection to Nintendo, simply being official or newer doesnt mean squat.

A game is chosen based on merit, which in this case, is defined by the people willing to play it and put money into it to participate.

If you're gonna validate something, do better than "lol its the official game." because again, that holds no barrings in grassroot tourneys.

I heard about that game, the metagame has already been maxed out and the same 5 people have been winning majors with the same 5 characters for the past 5 years, I cant believe ppl aren't bored of it yet

ARe you talking about Brawl? Or Melee? Or SF4? Or KoF13? Or Tekken?

Because really, you could be talking about almost any fighting game, since you know, being amongst the top 10 in the world for a fighting game is generally going to mean said top 10 is going to be winning most frequently.

 

[Hellrazor]

Why should a mod have more priority over the latest installment in a series?

Not saying that PM will be replaced in the near future, but I think it's understandable that Sm4sh should get put in over PM.

TBH, you'd think that the folks behind the tournaments wouldn't treat PM like a mod. Its tournaments stand alone from the rest of the games, so the only thing that makes it a mod is the fact that it's a mod, but in every other respect it's treated as its own game.

If money is on the line, they should simply compare the number of entrants that PM gets vs. the number of entrants Sm4sh gets and leave it there. If PM gets more, it wins. If Sm4sh gets more, it wins.

 

[Azureflames]

OK, maybe that was a wrong choice of words.

What I mean was I was typing about PM dying, then I saw your post, and then I quickly gained hope from your post. Does that make things more clearer?

Haha, yeah makes sense now.

 

[Strofirko]

I like how many people here forgets how nintendo made smash 4 not to p*ss on the others garden and yes to save the wiiu.

 

[Syde7]

Very unfortunate to see P:M lose its place at Apex, and now CEO. I don't play the game, but I've been around the scene long enough to remember when it grew out of Brawl+, and a few of the folks on the Development Team are some great Smash acquaintances of mine, so I hate to see all the heart & soul they poured into the effort be rewarded this way.

With that being said - let's keep in mind that major tournaments pulling P:M as a result of Nintendo's possible sponsorship and/or recognition of the competitive scene is, to be honest, the best possible outcome.

Nintendo could actually send a cease & desist, or other legal actions that would effectively shut the game down completely. Them turning a relatively blind eye to it all, simply saying: "Hey, listen... its cool that you guys have tournaments, and we're willing to recognize them, and potentially sponsor them. But, we can't have a hacked version of our intellectual property without any semblance of you having rights to it, which is in direct conflict with the EULA of the gaming system, and the game and is technically punishable by law at these tournaments... so, if you guys could just not have it as an "official" part of your tournaments that we do, or may, sponsor... we definitely recommend it." is really not that bad of a thing, considering the alternative.

Also, as others have said, it is a mod. This isn't to discount, discredit, or make light of in any way the effort that has been put into its development, the community and scene it has established, or its competitive viability. All that means is that, naturally, it would be the first to be replaced. Just like Brawl will be replaced at some point, and Sm4sh will be replaced, and one day... when the attendance just isn't there anymore... so will Melee (blasphemous to even think that, I know).

Things to consider....(and some of, not all, apply to the P:M situation) are as follows:
1) Attendance: At what point is it just not 'worth' having a dedicated time slot for a game simply not worth it? Eventually, I see something like Brawl dying down to the point where a turnout of like 60 or so just isn't worth the time slot; same for 64 at some point, and every other game.

2) Resources: Building off #1; there are only so many hours in a day. If a TO tried to squeeze in all 5 games - SSB64, Melee, Brawl, Sm4sh, P;M (and, extrapolate this into the future when there are even MORE games)... the event would wind up running 24 hours a day for the entirety of the time. It would be an incredible strain on the TO team, and unreasonable beyond belief.

3) Building off #2... think of the players. There are lots of players who play Melee, P:M, Brawl, and Sm4sh, bc they enjoy these games (not counting the top level players who play for enjoyment AND money). The strain on these players who play all these events is tremendous (ex: Playing a Brawl match, immediately leaving that set-up to play a P:M match, finishing that and waiting ten minutes and going to play Sm4sh, etc etc.) due not just to the switch in systems/mechanics, but because they have very few moments of rest.

4) Stuff I touched on previously regarding legalities (directly related to P:M)


Again, I hate to see P:M lose its "national spotlight" as it were, but I have faith in the development team, and that scene as a whole to persevere through these troubling times and see new growth in new avenues in the future. I honestly see something like what happened to Melee, happen to P:M... where it died off for awhile, and then comes back stronger than ever.

 

[Kink-Link5]

So have there been any plans to include PM at any upcoming big tournaments? We shouldn't focus on what we don't have and instead, what we can work with.

You could always host your own tournament. Smash is a grassroots community and the new-found uncharacteristic need for attention is bizarre.

If Nintendo or beastmen or the universe itself doesn't support the game, the community will. That's just the way the Smash world works.

 

[Espy Rose]

Music to my ears.

 

[mattphillyphan]

Jebailey here. I just wanted to chime in after everything and I have no problems being upfront with the community since CEO will always get its biggest support from the community directly.

I loved PM last year(Minus the coaching that took forever between sets). Working with the PM team to create a CEO Stage was flat out amazing and those guys deserve all the credit in the world, modded game or not, for putting so much passion into it.

I have yet to have any direct interaction with Nintendo for CEO at all. Would I love to talk to them about some sort of support, of course. I'm a Nintendo fan boy since I was 4 years old. Any time official support comes to a tournament in the past few years it's helped the games featured. However the community itself supported CEO in a huge way itself between Melee and PM so hosting it is no problem at all especially with @RagingCherry and the UCF Gaming Knights doing such a kick *** job.

From a marketing standpoint, all their focus is on Smash 4 now that's it's out for a bit. Who knows if it'll last past this year. I just know to keep PM alive for the fans, streaming it or hosting it at any big event could cause issues such as having the game taken down for good. Not trying to stir things up but I just want to clear the air that the decision isn't really ours to make otherwise I'd be up for hosting it. Although I was honest when I said hosting 3 different Smash Games at an event with more than just Smash would definitely be a challenge.

So I'm sorry to the Diehard PM fans that your game isn't featured this year. I try to please as many people as I can with CEO and feature as much as I can without going overboard but for the most part it's something I'd rather not deal with worrying about it getting shut down right before the event happens and what not. Just cause one or 2 events aren't hosting a game doesn't mean stop playing it. If your local community plays it, keep having fun and enjoying it.

With that said It'll be my pleasure to host the Smash Community again this year and hope to see you guys there. If anything changes for the better on the PM front I won't hesitate to talk about it.

As a PM fan this hurts, but the fact that you took time out of your day to give the community an inside look to your motivations and warn us well in advance does mean alot. I'm glad to know you have Smash's best interests as a whole at heart, and I'll support CEO2015 however I can. Go Melee, go Sm4sh, go PM, go 64, go Brawl <3

Thank you.

 

[LancerStaff]

I think you've completely misread what I'm trying to say here. Hate is bad, yes, which is exactly why you shouldn't go hating the game or calling the entire fanbase "pathetic" just because of a small minority of jerks. Two wrongs don't make a right.

No, I'm calling people like you pathetic, and you're giving this fanbase a bad name. Is it really that hard to follow? People like you deserve to die in some fetid hole somewhere.

 

[OmegaMuffin]

Seeing Project M being dropped out really makes my day.

I'm sorry, but why? Why are we not allowed to play a game we enjoy at big tournaments? I don't understand why people like you need to see another part of a community suffer to feel accomplished or good.

 

[Azureflames]

So people actually want to be associated with pathetic fanbases? Riiiiiight.

Hate is bad. Haha, you're not winning this argument.

Don't you have somewhere else to troll? Don't generalize everybody into what you want to believe. "pathetic fanbase"? lol okay?

No, I'm calling people like you pathetic, and you're giving this fanbase a bad name. Is it really that hard to follow? People like you deserve to die in some fetid hole somewhere.

Again, go somewhere else to troll and/or be a D***. You called shots at the PM community clearly calling it a pathetic fanbase, then next post calling the same guy who's trying to neutralize your toxic statement pathetic. He doesnt deserve to die. Stop being an A**hole and stop posting please.

 

[MegaMissingno]

No, I'm calling people like you pathetic, and you're giving this fanbase a bad name. Is it really that hard to follow? People like you deserve to die in some fetid hole somewhere.

What, liking my game and telling people to stop hating makes me pathetic and so I deserve to die for that? What the hell? What did I say that's so terrible?

If anyone here is giving their fanbase a bad name, go look in the mirror.

 

[Owlflame]

I'm happy about this.

 

[Owlflame]

The problem is that so many people see us as the "Smash community," and TO's don't want to only run games for the "Smash community." We aren't a community anymore. Smash 4 made sure of that. Smash 4 is hurting both PM and Melee as a game, and plenty of the members of the Smash 4 community and Melee/PM community are arguing over their games.
If Nintendo had released Smash 4 with the same type of promotion they've done for their past games, this wouldn't be a problem. Instead, they pretending to listen to our complaints about Brawl and the early versions of Smash 4. They invited primarily top level Melee players to the Smash 4 invitational at E3. They implied this game would be the middle ground we wanted, and while that would create tension among Smash fans, it would be fine.
But that isn't what happened. Smash 4 is not the middle ground, but the blatant exposure Smash 4 has gotten has made people believe it is. I legitimately believe that if Smash 4 had been released without pretending to care about the competitive community, it would've gone the same path as Brawl, but much, much sooner. I've seen far to many people say it has "fixed all of Brawl's problems," but never once have a seen any of them bother to elaborate.
Ever since Smash 4 came out, we haven't been the "Smash community" anymore, just like what happened with Brawl. In the last couple of years, when Melee and PM were the 2 main games for Smash by far, we were a community. The games coexisted, and as one grew, the other grew. Sure, there were some tensions between fans of the two games, but nothing serious. On the other hand, Smash 4 is clearly hurting the growth of PM, and even Melee fans are lashing out at it.
I'm glad CEO is giving a reason for their decision, and it's certainly understandable given that Smash 4 is the new game. However, exactly how long is it going to stay 'new?' This isn't a one time thing. Smash 4 is hurting the community because Nintendo couldn't stick by their word. They've already decided to stop doing balance patches in a metagame that you don't need to a research team to help you realize one character is dominating the rest of the cast.

Sorry for my admittedly biased rant. I could go back and make it seem neutral, but I simply don't want to. I'm legitimately upset, and I'd like that to be known. I'm already fighting the urge to explain each and every thing I dislike about Smash 4 as a competitive game. All bias aside though, it's hard to argue against the statement that the "Smash community" is no longer one community, and that Smash 4 has dealt a serious blow to it rather than helping it.

My problem is that I can disagree with the whole "They keep saying it's better but wont say why." I'll say why. Because ledge invincibility abuse is gone. Aggression is super rewarded now because shields break easier. You're rewarded for staying alive with the rage mode thing. Now that Ledge hogging is gone people actually have to put effort into killing people rather than just jump on the ledge and go trollface "I win!" Because that's boring. Not to mention how much faster it is than brawl, competitively. When it finishes coming into it's own it's really going to shine on it's own. That's what I believe. They just threw out the defense.

 

[PootisKonga]

Haha! Great! Screw of M! You're not even a real game. I don't know how your players ever got sponsors.

Please stop before you make a fool of yourself

 

[Owlflame]

Please stop before you make a fool of yourself

I saw your point and changed it.

 

[Owlflame]

It's a mod created by the community for the community. Nintendo turning a blind eye and having those they sponsor drop PM ultimately allows it to continue to grow without all of the legal repercussions it could have if they officially recognized it.

So no, it's just as real a Smash game as the others. Nintendo recognizes that and its potential enough to leave it alone.

Plus they said themselves that managing three Smash games would be too much, so of course they'll be dropping something that is admittedly expendable at the time being to play the shiny new game that could garner more Nintendo support.

I disagree. I don't aknowledge mods as complete games. No matter how you look at it, something that was made of a morfed engine is a morfed game. Not a game. It's a mod. Not a game. The fact that it's more difficult to play than buying a disc and poping it in my console is proof enough that it's not a game. It's a mod.

 

[Aguki90]

I don't know why people is butthurt. Nintendo make History with in smash 4 but people will never care because is not melee 2.0. or project M.

Even Nintendo Give us Ridle or K. Rool, people will not care neither as Long the game is Melee 2.0 or PM.

Is kinda sad that too see a comunity can grow big but can't move foward to do New things.

 

[iWouldLickZelda]

Sakurai stated that he believes that smash (4) does not have a competitive futre so ill welcome project m back in about a year. If it ever leaves that is.

 

[Owlflame]

Sakurai stated that he believes that smash (4) does not have a competitive futre so ill welcome project m back in about a year. If it ever leaves that is.

Source?

 

[LancerStaff]

What, liking my game and telling people to stop hating makes me pathetic and so I deserve to die for that? What the hell? What did I say that's so terrible?

If anyone here is giving their fanbase a bad name, go look in the mirror.

Yaknow what? I got confused, thought you were somebody else. I'm sorry... I just hate people like this is all. I'll just leave the topic without a fuss, okay?

 

[Azureflames]

I disagree. I don't aknowledge mods as complete games. No matter how you look at it, something that was made of a morfed engine is a morfed game. Not a game. It's a mod. Not a game. The fact that it's more difficult to play than buying a disc and poping it in my console is proof enough that it's not a game. It's a mod.

Apparently for you what's hard to understand is the philosophical understanding of what makes a game a game to begin with. Your opinion is just that, its an open bias opinion on what you believe to be a game.

If you really wanna get technical-
Complete: having all the necessary or appropriate parts.
Game: a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

By definition PM easily qualifies as a "complete game" (factoring out that it isn't PMBR's final version, but that is still irrelevant to some degree).

Without subjective bias what exactly is it about the gameplay and mechanics within the game that make it not count as a "complete game"? There are many things about the characters and such that were built from the ground up, with a lot of animations exclusive to PM not taken from brawl. The only point you've made was that it physically count because it's not a disc in itself. All a disc version would be is game data copied to a portable harddrive in disc form. If PM came in a disc form that worked on wii would that magically make it a "complete game" no. Your mindset is all just nitpicking and being stubborn/hard headed...Yes, PM is in fact a mod, but that doesn't mean that a mod can't be considered a complete game if it has rich quality gameplay and people to support it.

 

[CPU-Z]

No, I'm calling people like you pathetic, and you're giving this fanbase a bad name. Is it really that hard to follow? People like you deserve to die in some fetid hole somewhere.

This of ALL things coming from YOU? Geez. You hypocrite.

 

[Owlflame]

Apparently for you what's hard to understand is the philosophical understanding of what makes a game a game to begin with. Your opinion is just that, its an open bias opinion on what you believe to be a game.

If you really wanna get technical-
Complete: having all the necessary or appropriate parts.
Game: a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

By definition PM easily qualifies as a "complete game" (factoring out that it isn't PMBR's final version, but that is still irrelevant to some degree).

Without subjective bias what exactly is it about the gameplay and mechanics within the game that make it not count as a "complete game"? There are many things about the characters and such that were built from the ground up, with a lot of animations exclusive to PM not taken from brawl. The only point you've made was that it physically count because it's not a disc in itself. All a disc version would be is game data copied to a portable harddrive in disc form. If PM came in a disc form that worked on wii would that magically make it a "complete game" no. Your mindset is all just nitpicking and being stubborn/hard headed...Yes, PM is in fact a mod, but that doesn't mean that a mod can't be considered a complete game if it has rich quality gameplay and people to support it.

I mean. I acknowledge Brawl as a game. I don't know. I think as a game designer I'm just programmed to think spite mods are gross. (Spite mods being mods made because the creator hated the original game. Vs regular mods which are made more for fun.)

I really don't know how to put it. Mods are just gross to me. And yes. Economics in videogames states that mods help. But I'd rather a mod be made with love than made because "**** you Sakurai" You know?

As well. I said it wasn't a complete game. Not that it wasn't a game. If you were to put project M up for sale alone (Somehow if Nintendo let you get the **** away with that ((Surprisingly they wouldn't since it's not only not a full game but because the creators also couldn't be assed to make their own engine)) without a lawsuit) it would run for a fifth the price because of the time put in and the content that's in it. (All sorts of game modes that don't work for starters. All they did was mod the gameplay of the vs mode.)

I think fans, if they really want a Melee that will last, should make their own game complete with melee like gameplay. That way they don't have to worry about nintendo AND it would be an actual game, rather than a mod made to look like a game that already exists.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Yaknow what? I got confused, thought you were somebody else. I'm sorry... I just hate people like this is all. I'll just leave the topic without a fuss, okay?

Who exactly did you have me confused with that warranted saying they "deserve to die in some fetid hole somewhere"? There's no justifying that no matter who it was supposed to be directed at.

And no matter who you were thinking of, it's pretty hypocritical to call our fanbase pathetic while giving a pass to all the far worse things said in this thread from people hating on PM. What, is it suddenly okay when your guys do it?

 

[Hellrazor]

Who exactly did you have me confused with that warranted saying they "deserve to die in some fetid hole somewhere"? There's no justifying that no matter who it was supposed to be directed at.

And no matter who you were thinking of, it's pretty hypocritical to call our fanbase pathetic while giving a pass to all the far worse things said in this thread from people hating on PM. What, is it suddenly okay when your guys do it?

Report and move along. Don't give these asshats the time of day.

 

[Azureflames]

I don't know why people is butthurt. Nintendo make History with in smash 4 but people will never care because is not melee 2.0. or project M.

Even Nintendo Give us Ridle or K. Rool, people will not care neither as Long the game is Melee 2.0 or PM.

Is kinda sad that too see a comunity can grow big but can't move foward to do New things.

You're speaking about the vocal minority. You also misunderstand the true reason and depth behind why a good amount of people from other communities aren't really for smash4. I think it's amazing with all the character diversity and beautful graphics. The problem is that the game is SO much different than any other iterations. The physics, speed, and knockback growth as well combos are all so different. I don't care to adjust since everything feels so different in terms of endingstocks as well as not feeling as in control ofmy character as pm/melee.

The way you need to play is completely different from melee/pm so you cant blame them. Until you've tried to master all the AT's and learned their perspective you really shouldn't give them so much flack.

It's also not about "moving forward to new things". People in the hardcore melee/pm scene value different things to make a game worthwhile. They value competitive viability and many agree (even the melee/pm players that enjoy smash4) that smash4 doesnt have the depth to achieve the longevity it needs to be competitively viable in the competitive scene compared to melee/pm; It's not just character diversity and pretty graphics that appeal to people, it's all depth, balance, and gameplay more than anything.

The majority of players in both melee and PM that don't play the game probably tried smash4, didnt like it, and then silently went back to spending time on whatever game they were doing before. There are still a lot of people that play smash4 that play both PM/melee still. PM is very new to lots of players and still has lots of room for development/growth.

 

[Owlflame]

Apparently for you what's hard to understand is the philosophical understanding of what makes a game a game to begin with. Your opinion is just that, its an open bias opinion on what you believe to be a game.

If you really wanna get technical-
Complete: having all the necessary or appropriate parts.
Game: a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

By definition PM easily qualifies as a "complete game" (factoring out that it isn't PMBR's final version, but that is still irrelevant to some degree).

Without subjective bias what exactly is it about the gameplay and mechanics within the game that make it not count as a "complete game"? There are many things about the characters and such that were built from the ground up, with a lot of animations exclusive to PM not taken from brawl. The only point you've made was that it physically count because it's not a disc in itself. All a disc version would be is game data copied to a portable harddrive in disc form. If PM came in a disc form that worked on wii would that magically make it a "complete game" no. Your mindset is all just nitpicking and being stubborn/hard headed...Yes, PM is in fact a mod, but that doesn't mean that a mod can't be considered a complete game if it has rich quality gameplay and people to support it.

Actually, I'm being told that you can't run project M on it's own without brawl. Meaning it's not a complete game.

 

[DibsOnThat]

Before we react too quickly, when Brawl came out Melee absolutely died for awhile and everyone thought it was the end. Now Melee is back and stronger than ever. Smash 4 is the new kid on the block. Let it have it's time. As a huge PM guy I'm seriously disappointed about this, but I think if you give it a year or so, when Nintendo stops policing Smash again, PM will be back.

 

[Azureflames]

Actually, I'm being told that you can't run project M on it's own without brawl. Meaning it's not a complete game.

*sigh* You completely missed the point. based on that reply im just gonna assume there's no point in trying to have any kind of discussion with you.

 

[Owlflame]

*sigh* You completely missed the point. based on that reply im just gonna assume there's no point in trying to have any kind of discussion with you.

So you're gonna do that thing? "My ideals are different than yours. So I'm going to imply that you're too stupid to talk to." At least agree to disagree on this matter of opinion. I hate people who say "Whatever. I'll just look better if I can call the other person stupid and leave first." Did you not read the other really long and in depth thing I wrote for you?

"I mean. I acknowledge Brawl as a game. I don't know. I think as a game designer I'm just programmed to think spite mods are gross. (Spite mods being mods made because the creator hated the original game. Vs regular mods which are made more for fun.)

I really don't know how to put it. Mods are just gross to me. And yes. Economics in videogames states that mods help. But I'd rather a mod be made with love than made because "**** you Sakurai" You know?

As well. I said it wasn't a complete game. Not that it wasn't a game. If you were to put project M up for sale alone (Somehow if Nintendo let you get the **** away with that ((Surprisingly they wouldn't since it's not only not a full game but because the creators also couldn't be ***** to make their own engine)) without a lawsuit) it would run for a fifth the price because of the time put in and the content that's in it. (All sorts of game modes that don't work for starters. All they did was mod the gameplay of the vs mode.)

I think fans, if they really want a Melee that will last, should make their own game complete with melee like gameplay. That way they don't have to worry about nintendo AND it would be an actual game, rather than a mod made to look like a game that already exists."

Is what it said.

 

[JUSTN]

Project M is a mod

a very well made mod that is more popular then brawl ever was

 

[Owlflame]

a very well made mod that is more popular then brawl ever was

Powerful? Excuse me? What the **** does "Powerful" mean in this context?