Meta-knight Findings from actually playing the Game

[.kR0]

My friend got a Japanese version of Brawl and since I'm Japanese, we're capable of getting some matches in. We will upload videos (1vs1) as soon as we get the right equipment.

Now for important findings.

Metaknight does lack killing power, HOWEVER, metaknight is absolutely amazing at edgeguarding. Get the guy off the edge via
-dsmash (best smash)
-forward air
-neutral air

and follow it up with a nair or fair off the ledge for a easy K.O. I find myself K.Oing my friends ike and Captain Falcon around 60-100% consistantly. And the good thing is, it is ricidulously EASY to rack up damage with metaknight. Some things.

-neutral B eats through a lot of things. The last frame of the move has knockback so you won't get punished
-forward B eats through a lot of things. Slightly more pounishable unless you get the last hit again.
-Down B I am still testing. Its nice to insantly move fast, but it has a decent lag after the move.

General Tips when using metaknight
-Abuse his aerials. They're one of the best in the game. PERIOD. (Marth and Meta has the best aerials atm)
-Use multiple aerials in the air with multiple jumps for spacing mindgames and to gurantee yourself a safe landing.

-DTILT IS AMAZING. Comes out insanely fast, nice edgeguard properties, Meta himself moves forward slightly as you use it, goes under shields. This move has almost NO downside.
-Meta has nice Vertical K.O.s against floaties with Uptilt, upsmash, and Nair.
-Upair can combo incredibly well (into more upairs) due to its weak knockback and how it sends opponents straight up. Haven't tested if its a viable K.O. move against really floaties

Cons
-Light
-Slightly low killing power
-his most reliable way of actually getting kills is not his individual moves, but his edgeguard abilities (which is really dependent on enemy characters and their UpB)

Pros
-His moves eats through EVERYTHING
-Really fast moves both aerials and grounds
-nice grab range and nice combo potential out of throws (although most of them really depend on opponent DI)
-His B moves are insanely great
-Incredibly easy to mindgame opponent due to Meta's insane movepool

 

[Lunar6]

How about on a fun-factor?

 

[.kR0]

Really fun for me at least. Easy to use so I can see guys comparing him to like being Shiek in melee (although they play nothing alike).

One more thing.
Don't spam ftilt or at least don't do the third strike. Its one of his only laggy moves.


EDIT

Against other Characters:

-Captain Falcon = Falcon got the end of the stick as he is nerfed considerably. He lacks the speed, priority, range and even killing power in most of his aerials. And because of the less hit stun, general floatiness of characters and meta himself having probably one of the best aerials, you really should have no trouble beating him. He still has that predictable upb (although he can use his forward B now too), so just go off the ledge and nair him till he dies.

-Ike = I have no clue what Gimpyfish said when he says that he's incredibly slow. Yes, he is slow, but some of his aerials come out insanely fast (ex; his bair), and it kills. Watch out for his overall better range from his bair, fair, upsmash and nair. Its a race between you ****** Ike with speed and priority vs his mindgames and his anticipating what moves you're about to use. Also grab alot. Meta has a nice grab.

-Fox = I had couple of problems with Fox. Mainly with his smashes (his upsmash). The problem is that when you fight fox, he'll want to trade hits with you, and trading hits with Meta is a really really bad idea. Try to bait out his ground moves and punish with fairs and dtilts. Rack up damage and get him off the stage with a dsmash/dtilt/nair near the edge. Important thing is when he is off the stage, he'll try to sweetspot (which is much easier in brawl) with a forward B/upb . Hit him with the nair when Meta is swinging his sword below him (its his start up swing). That part of the hit has a semi-spike element (kinda like sheiks fair). Guranteed kill and relatively at low percentage. Fox can still dair->shine you so watch out for that. The key is spacing your fair so you don't trade hits and how much you spam dtilt.

-Marth = Even match so far. Marth has more killing power (obviously) and his aerials all can kill Meta at relatively low percentage. You're faster than him though, and some of your moves have relatively longer range (surprisingly).

Things that I noticed
-Dsmash for Meta comes out fast and has a nice range
-dtilt for both meta and Marth is great. Watch out for his.
-You have a better grab range
-marth's fairs/sword dance is really really good against Meta since it comes out insanely fast and has nice speed/killing power.
-Fsmash is easier to DI so you won't die (I got hit around 120%in battlefield and didn't die) Marth's Fsmash generally got nerfed.

-Lucario = He is my secondary atm and Lucario (obviously from the vids) plays nothing like Mewtwo. He has two incredibly great moves which are his fsmash (comes out slow but has incredible/decieving range) and his dair. Lucario's Dair is INCREDIBLY good. It makes him kick several times below him that has decent knockback. What makes this move incredibly good is its property when you use it. It pauses Lucario completely in midair while he does the move. It's incredible for spacing mindgames (you can use the move above him, slightly below him and in front of him and you'll still hit), stalling, and is by far the best move to do out of a shield. He has something Meta doesn't have (a nice projectile) and his UpB is really hard to edgeguard. You might have some trouble fighting him if you don't space his nair and dair. Lucario's ground moves are slow and laggy, but packs a big punch. If you spam too much and get predictable, you will get *****.

more to come.

 

[xigon]

thz for all the updates. Ill be sure to look back to this thread soon for vids and all.

 

[t!MmY]

I find myself K.Oing my friends ike and Captain Falcon around 60-100% consistantly.

I'd hope so. Most abusable recoverys ever. lol

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

This pleases Bleck...

 

[motsalogeL]

Weather a character is high tier or not isn't decided by a single person. No offense.

 

[.kR0]

Recoveries are harder to gimp. Almost no character has a recovery like Ganon in melee (where if you don't kill Ganon when he's off the stage, you're dumb). It's incredibly easy to sweetspot with almost anyone, so using Meta means you really have to do aerials off the stage like jigs in melee.

And the high tier thing is just my general impression. But I really can't find any character that moved as nicely as him atm.

 

[Kirby knight]

Interesting findings. =/ I do want to address this though.

-Ike = I have no clue what Gimpyfish said when he says that he's incredibly slow. Yes, he is slow, but some of his aerials come out insanely fast (ex; his bair), and it kills. Watch out for his overall better range from his bair, fair, upsmash and nair. Its a race between you ****** Ike with speed and priority vs his mindgames and his anticipating what moves you're about to use. Also grab alot. Meta has a nice grab.

Gimpyfish played a Brawl DEMO at E4All correct?
Your playing the full version of the game, right?
Changes have happened to some characters since E4All, correct?
To sum it up, Ike was incredibly slow at E4All, but the changes to his character after that event made him better. (Not incredibly slow).

 

[Agent 1337]

If this is true, it would seem that Meta Knight's shortcomings are made up for the fact that he has ridiculous edgeguarding, thus eliminating possible shortcomings; the only thing that he'd have to worry about here, it seems, is his light weight and his lack of range and lack of projectile moves. Because of that, I don't think he'd be the Fox of Brawl, but he's seeming to come pretty close. Let's just hope he's not god tier so that not everyone uses him all the time. That'd get old.

 

[.kR0]

Update.
Trying to upload matches but we have some technical issues. (We had a really nice Meta vs ike match but we don't know how to import from the wii SD card to PC)

Corrections and updates on Meta
-He is easily K.Oed vertically but has quite a good amount of survivability horizontally wise (hence the issues I had with fox)
-Marth's grab range is actually slightly longer, but Meta's dash grab lets him slide forward while he grabs, increasing his range substantially. Also, he slides even after he grabs ( he goes really far), letting you get near the ledge for KO's.
-Ftilt is nice at low percentage since his last hit can let him combo into nairs (not a 100% gurantee, but quite easy and reliable to do). At mid percentage, the opponent goes too high for any combo potential.

More strategies with Meta
-Dash cancel upsmashes are useful, and a solid ground approach for Meta.
-uptilt has a nice range and leads to series of upairs
-Dair is becoming one of the staple aerials out of shields due to it being fast that covers nice range both down and side. Its knockback is also nice because it sends them going decently straight away.

Character matchup edits
-Ike is becoming really hard for me due to range. His forwardB comes out incredibly fast, closes distance, and is hard to edgeguard. In fact, Ike is actually one of the hardest to edgeguard probably in the game unless you have a really nice projectile (which Zsamus has atm). His forwardB will often come out before you can predict it and his UpB has really nice priority and range (he is vulnerable behind him, but you won't be behind him when you're edgeguarding obviously).

General things to look out for against Ike
-his uptilt, bair, upsmash
-his dair can be a pain since it will outrange your upair juggles
-his dtilt can spike you if you try to stall with your ledge UpB
-invincibility frames during his fsmash.
-Spacing is key. He will outrange you with most of his moves.

 

[FenrirIII]

Wow, Meta is sounding better and better. Keep up the impression, these are very helpful.
Also, mind getting some impressions from the likes of Wolf, DeDeDe, and Falco. Wolf/Falco don't play too much like Fox at all so strategies look like they'll be entirely different, and DeDeDe looks like a tough cookie so far.

 

[Trace_User500]

Wow, all 3 Kirby characters look great, now that Kirby is un-nerfed. I will spend a lot of time in the air with Meta. You don't say anything about gliding, unless that is what a tilt is, is it unimportant?

Never mind I know what a tilt is.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Meta's sounding good. He seems like he has the tools to get around these harder matchups, it's just a matter of figuring them out.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

I haven't got the game so I really can't be sure of what I'm about to say.. however.. I think forward B can be a really good tool in order to solve spacing issues.. characters such as Ike, Marth and Dedede have high range but are also pretty tall, so hitting them shouldn't really be that hard. Plus, it covers a pretty good distance so it might be good to use out of shield in order to punish a spaced aerial attack from your opponent. I'm not sure but it might be also a good dash dance punisher because of the distance it covers. Also as far as sending opponent off stage is concerned you really should try up B. I've seen some videos and it seems it has got a HUGE knockback even if it hits after you performed the loop. Not to mention is comes out terribly fast, has got a good range and can be used out of shield.

 

[.kR0]

UpB is one of the staple combo finisher out of his upair since it gurantees the best part of Meta's hit which is his start up (which knocks straight horizontally). However, if you hit the guy while he is in his moving up part of his UpB, it sends them at a 75 degree angle (which isn't that good)

So far as a kill move
-nair at the start up
-dsmash (really good smash, comes out insanely fast, no lag, has great knockback and hits both sides)
-upB
-fsmash (laggy start up time but can still be used)
-dair at really high percentage

EDIT

His B moves in a deeper look

neutral B: the start up hit seems to have slightly more knockback than the times when the opponent is in the tornado and the last frame of the move also has a low, vertical knockback. Really great move as an approach due to you being able to approach with DI and move away if you think you'll get punished. But what makes this move really nice is that it EATS shields. I'm trying it at the moment to see if I can make this my staple shield pressure move. it seems to hit the guy before the shield get too insanely low though...

Forward B: The start up lag is just long enough for the opponent to shield even if you do it out of shields. However, its a great move both recovery and as an attack because opponent CANNOT DI out of it once they're in the tornado. The last frame has a decent knockback and I've seen it kill near the ledge around 150% It can also hit multiple opponent but I've seen slightly bigger characters like Ganon "fall off" when I hit multiple enemies.

Down B: I use this mostly when I'm fighting characters that have a good vertical K.O. move (Ike, Zsamus, Fox) to land quickly on the ground. However, I would not do this too high up in the air since you freefall after the move (and the move itself doesn't go too far). I use it in platform stages like battlefield. Also, the "counter" element of the move is useless since its laggy at the end and has bad knockback (like 50 degrees).

 

[t!MmY]

Down B: ...the "counter" element of the move is useless since its laggy at the end and has bad knockback (like 50 degrees).

Try using it to avoid a grab and then counter attack to push them away.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

I'll have to try out that tornado then

any hint on good moves to use out of shield to cover long distances? How about tornado out of shield? =P

also we definitely need to find a combo which ends with one of those good finishers. KOing opponents seems to be a very big issue for metaknight atm. And I guess forward B + up B isn't really that reliable lol

 

[beige]

Sweet, thanks for all this info. Meta just sounds like hes getting better post after post, so keep the info coming.

 

[.kR0]

Try using it to avoid a grab and then counter attack to push them away.

You don't want to "push them away" with Meta as a overall gameplan.
The key is spacing with Meta and making sure that you get in the hit and the other guy don't.
This becomes absolutely critical against Ike since he will beat you in a lot of things EXCEPT for speed and grab combos.

STAGES FOR META

-Final D = This stage has one big pro and one big con. The pro is that it has a high ceiling, so you won't die early vertically. The big con is just the overall size of the stage, meaning harder to kill and harder to gimp kill. You can ledge stall with your UpB which is great.
-Battlefield = Easier to die vertically, but the platforms help a lot. Meta's Dair goes through the platform and can often hit opponents in the head.

And before I go on.

Does anyone know if there is a way to upload the Wii SD chip into the PC and convert them into videos?

 

[beige]

Did you try putting the SD Card into a camera and plugging the camera into the computer?

 

[Doomgaze]

I find the tornado to be much better for defensive purposes than the dimensional cape because it's faster and less punishable. but the cape is cool through platforms

 

[beige]

How many glides/wing flaps can Meta Knight get in one jump?

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Does Meta have any spikes? There's gotta be one in there somewhere. I heard fair had one if you positioned it right, someone wanna confirm that?

 

[beige]

I'm not quite sure..

 

[.kR0]

Meta doesn't seem to have a spike as I can tell atm. His nair does have that shiek fair moments and his fair seemed to hit decently straight sometimes, but I haven't seen any moves that hits an opponent straight down.

Also, Dsmash is just great. Since wavedashing is out, many players depend on rolls again for spacing, and like many dsmashes, it hits both sides. Meta's dsmash is one of the best in the game since it is incredibly fast and its knockback sends the guy straight away (horizontally)

 

[beige]

Yeah, Meta doesn't have a spike.

 

[Droly]

I also played brawl (was playing medaknight) he looks top tier right now. You are all forgetting his up b which is a kill move also and can also combo out of moves.

 

[DaFlameking]

Yea. From my experience, everyone unexpected the speed of my down smash and I K.o.ed alot of people with it.

Up + B is also a killing move but it has a downside, If you do it and your flying off the stage, you cant come back. But its much more unexpected so when you do it, it will kill them more likely than a down or forward smash. Oh, Its also very useful in the air since they cant shield in the air and its too quick for them to air dodge.

His B moves are really useful. If you're one of those players who dash attack alot and run into shield grabs, you can change your attack method with half dash and once your half way to your opponent and they shield, use neutral B (Mach Tornado) to go over there or Side B (Drill Rush) and it will hit them even if they are in shield and they have no chance in grabbing you or countering.

Make use of your glide sneak attacks. I figured this out late since it took me 5 matches to remember what was glide lol. Glide over to them and them do a slash. They'll never see it coming.

Oh and use your combos and slashes for keeping a distance. Forward air, down tilts, up air, up smash. Mix em up.

Hope that helps you all and beefs up all the info .kr0 said.

 

[Wobbles]

UpB is one of the staple combo finisher out of his upair since it gurantees the best part of Meta's hit which is his start up (which knocks straight horizontally)

You are all forgetting his up b which is a kill move also and can also combo out of moves.

Whoops.

MK seems to have trouble dealing with projectile spammers--the two I've had problems with are D3 and Pit. Pit's arrows are incredibly inconvenient, and Waddle Dees fly at a trajectory that is really hard to approach through. Any thoughts/suggestions?

Also, from what little I've played, I liked messing around with MK's glide attack cancel as a form of shield pressure. It creates a nice mindgame where you hit their shield and a) down-smash if they try to grab you or b) grab if they keep shielding. The obvious drawback to this is that gliding takes awhile to set up.

Edit:

DaFlameKing: Because of MK's air control and the new edge-grabbing functionality, it's actually really hard to kill yourself with up+b. As long as you end it quickly by pulling up and you DI to the stage, you will probably manage to grab the edge.

 

[DaFlameking]

I think Mach Tornado can be used as a shield for projectiles while still being able to make your way to your opponent. I think my Mach Tornado (neutral B) absorbed/stopped a pikachu jolt. Im not sure if it does it to all projectiles but I will try tomorrow.

Edit:

DaFlameKing: Because of MK's air control and the new edge-grabbing functionality, it's actually really hard to kill yourself with up+b. As long as you end it quickly by pulling up and you DI to the stage, you will probably manage to grab the edge.

Thats true. That new auto edge grab function saves so many lives xD. But most of the time, I'm on the verge of killing someone and high in the air doing forward air combos and i get caught up in the moment. x_x Ive died like that on Warioware and Battlefield alot. =/

 

[.kR0]

Pit on Final D is a beast. Don't fight him there at all costs if you're using Meta. His arrows really really rack up damage on you and will probably force a approach spacing mistake. Not to mention Pit's bair out of shields is insane. You can however gimp his recovery with dairs because Pit's recovery is really predictable.

There isn't too much Meta can do against Pit's neutralB except to close space as fast as you can (knowing you'll get hit once or twice). I usually jump->airdodge/jump->jump->airdodge approach when I see Pit draw his bow and arrow and hope he misses.

 

[Wobbles]

.kR0: Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. Have you tried absorbing the arrows with Mach Tornado? Also, I've been finding it hard to gimp Pit, since the person I played against tries to gain height from far out and get decent mixups on his recovery. If he's way high up and starts using glides, I don't see him being very easy to gimp at all. It seems you've played more than me, but I was having a HELL of a time edge-guarding my friend's Pit.

DaFlameking: You do bring up a good point, actually. I just now remembered that some stages, including Orpheon, have walls and ledges you can't grab onto. Plus you may run the risk of being edgehogged if you happen to miss.

 

[.kR0]

Pit shouldn't start out too high up if you get him off with dsmash or nair. With Fair, it becomes practically impossible to edgeguard because all the characters can DI in a 75degree angle. And each of Meta's jump doesn't take him far up. On a stage like battlefield, start jumping from the platform and chase Pit in the air with an upair. If the Pit is recovering really high up so he won't get daired, he should be high enough that a upair should kill him (and Meta's upair is really really fast) On Final D, well I'm still figuring that out

just a general guess but if you think the Pit is going to DI back and down to grab the ledge, run up and dair. If you think he'll glide/stall in the air for a while, predict his land (I think he has a slight lag if he lands with an upB, I'm not sure) or predict his movement and dashcancel upsmash/downsmash. An UpB isn't a bad option either since it comes out fast. Sorry for a seemingly generic answer. I'm playing Lucas a lot atm.

EDIT

I just asked my room-mate (who I play with a lot) to play Pit for me. Ob course he's not the best Pit out there but he did do what a good Pit should do (spam arrows, aerials, tilts, bair out of shields).

Things that worked
-upair
-upair
-upair
-upair
-dair spam if he is ever below the level (which I got him to be sometimes)
-shield->jump->shield when he was projectile spamming
-dtilt/ftilt when in range
-downB to dodge when he tries to bair in air/use arrows both in air and on ground
-dashgrabs/dashattack (obviously not spammed or else lol shieldgrab)

Things that DIDN'T work

-B moves in general. If I try to approach via tornado, he'll shieldgrab me because I didn't start the move on him (and hence won't eat his shield) or he'll generally punish me with an aerial because he'll space right.

 

[DaFlameking]

Aww man. Stay on the MetaKnight side with us xD.

I think all or a few Pit players will utilize his glide and mobility in the air. The ones I fought spent around 70% of the battle in the air and once they got close enough, fought for some time on the ground.

Like you said, only Up airs seem to work in my situation to throw off their flights so its a real hassle to fight any Pit. I need to find more solutions as that is already one tough matchup already. Mach Tornado and Up Airs seems best so far.

 

[.kR0]

I'll ask him to play more Pit just for more info.
But ****, I fear a good Ike a lot more atm.

EDIT

Sorry for the mis-info, but a running off ledge->nair DOES in fact work around 50 % and up. It does cause that bouncing off ledge to semi-spike knockback. Great thing is even if they do survive the hit, you can then **** him with dairs.

The trouble is of course actually hitting the guy because he'll probably see it coming.

 

[Norm]

Good Stuff thanks for the thoughts i plan to try out meta well i plan to try out all the characters but hey i still like to get an idea of the character before i use them.

 

[DaFlameking]

Things that DIDN'T work

-running off ledge nair/bair when he was grabbing the ledge (I thought it might make him fly and bounce off the stage and spike but instead he get stuck on the wierd angle and can still make it back. However, it is a decent way to rack up damage when followed with dair.
-B moves in general. If I try to approach via tornado, he'll shieldgrab me because I didn't start the move on him (and hence won't eat his shield) or he'll generally punish me with an aerial because he'll space right.

Wow. Nair didnt work?
How about a mach tornado in the air (Its a risk cause of the fall lag but I hope someone plays Pit next time i play so i can experiment with him.

Ike yea hes a beast. So far I've figured out how to edge guard him properly.
Avoid being above him and go low with tilts and then once he's in the air, forward airs until he's off the stage. Then when he's trying to get back on with his Up + B, wait for his end animation (where he's spinning) and grab the edge quickly at that moment (you gotta have good reaction times). It worked for me 3/4. The only i failed was when I went too late and i got spiked backwards.

 

[HeroXL]

These videos give a good idea of how to fight Pit.

Metaknight Matches

Light (Pit) vs Forte (Metaknight) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJfMbvqrGr4

Light (Pit) vs Forte (Metaknight) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jis3K3wL1cQ

Light (Pit) vs Forte (Metaknight) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYMcc_cvSKs

 

[SpruceTengu]

My friend got a Japanese version of Brawl and since I'm Japanese, we're capable of getting some matches in. We will upload videos (1vs1) as soon as we get the right equipment.

Now for important findings.

Metaknight does lack killing power, HOWEVER, metaknight is absolutely amazing at edgeguarding. Get the guy off the edge via
-dsmash (best smash)
-forward air
-neutral air

and follow it up with a nair or fair off the ledge for a easy K.O. I find myself K.Oing my friends ike and Captain Falcon around 60-100% consistantly. And the good thing is, it is ricidulously EASY to rack up damage with metaknight. Some things.

-neutral B eats through a lot of things. The last frame of the move has knockback so you won't get punished
-forward B eats through a lot of things. Slightly more pounishable unless you get the last hit again.
-Down B I am still testing. Its nice to insantly move fast, but it has a decent lag after the move.

General Tips when using metaknight
-Abuse his aerials. They're one of the best in the game. PERIOD. (Marth and Meta has the best aerials atm)
-Use multiple aerials in the air with multiple jumps for spacing mindgames and to gurantee yourself a safe landing.

-DTILT IS AMAZING. Comes out insanely fast, nice edgeguard properties, Meta himself moves forward slightly as you use it, goes under shields. This move has almost NO downside.
-Meta has nice Vertical K.O.s against floaties with Uptilt, upsmash, and Nair.
-Upair can combo incredibly well (into more upairs) due to its weak knockback and how it sends opponents straight up. Haven't tested if its a viable K.O. move against really floaties

Cons
-Light
-Slightly low killing power
-his most reliable way of actually getting kills is not his individual moves, but his edgeguard abilities (which is really dependent on enemy characters and their UpB)

Pros
-His moves eats through EVERYTHING
-Really fast moves both aerials and grounds
-nice grab range and nice combo potential out of throws (although most of them really depend on opponent DI)
-His B moves are insanely great
-Incredibly easy to mindgame opponent due to Meta's insane movepool

Yeaaa Bobes! =D

-brother Tengu