Meta Knight: is he losing power?

[Enzo]

Meta knight: not the same character we remember?

WE all remember how mk is broken and blah blah (nto saying he isnt the blash blash is an abbreviation)

But a couple of months back @ Apex 2010, Brood (a top olimar from japan) shocked the smash community with his amazing defeat of Mew2King (widely considered the best mk in the world), so did DEHF (best falco in North america/anywhere else minus japan not sure how good their falcos are there)


And now today RichBrown (a top Olimar) pulled off a defeat over M2k, sending him to losers bracket.
Later today, ADHD knocked out M2k from the tournament.

Mew2King wasn't the only MK who's been having shocking defeats.
ESAM (top pikachu in world) pulled off amazing victories on other elite Meta knights today, namely Tyrant and LeeMartin.
He also could've potentially beaten M2k but SD'd in the last match of the set.

MikeHaze (top marth in the world) defeated Anti, another top mk from NY.

Forgive me if I am forgetting any other matches, these are coming off the top of my head.

Does this mean that mk is not the best in the game?
Definitely not.

What I'm trying to say here is that the margin between Meta knight and the rest of the cast in high tier may be thinner than we thought it to be.

Certainly the best. Maybe no longer Da Bess
Discuss.

 

[ItoI6]

lol you do know that most of the matchups against top tiers are like 55-45 and 60-40 right? We have established the differnece is not that big with a lgl ledgegrab and this is kinda how its expected to go down.

 

[Kaffei]

Nah. M2K just got out played.

 

[lilseph]

more like people are figuring out m2k and hes gotta step his **** up. Once he learns some new tricks and stuff he will be right back on top.

 

[BigDaddy4]

mk da bess

 

[Orion*]

lol you do know that most of the matchups against top tiers are like 55-45 and 60-40 right? We have established the differnece is not that big with a lgl ledgegrab and this is kinda how its expected to go down.

Nah. M2K just got out played.

these pretty much lmao

 

[Exdeath]

M2K has a terrible mindset-handicap against ADHD and is incapable of winning against him until ADHD (as ADHD is) until he changes it. As for M2K's loss to Rich Brown, M2K as a player limits himself in general for the sake of efficiency. This helps M2K with his overall consistency, but gives him a fairly large weakness. Rich Brown studied M2K's matches with Brood, took M2K's choices and weakness into mind (they're related), and then exploited them. M2K still has the same weakness that he had when Brood played him, and chances are that he'll have the same weakness next time.

 

[Staco]

ADHD has beaten M2K since a year now.
But if you compar it to Anti ****** ADHD (2 and 3 stocks), I wouldn´t call this a reason for MK getting weaker.
Same for DEHF, who has got close sets against M2K since 2010.

Did Anti use Mk vs. Mikehaze?
But that´s no big surprise to me, Mikehaze has taken matches from M2K multiple times and that´s not just since now.

I don´t think that I ever thought that there is a big gap between MK and the other characters.
And it´s btw the same for all the other toptiers such as Falco and Snake.

 

[Orion*]

low tiers should worry more about ics LMFAO **** is sad

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

ITT: BLM as usual.
Seriously, MK is not getting worse, nor is everyone else getting better by comparison. M2K is simply being outplayed. Sure, M2K sucks against diddy, and apparently olimar as well. But that's M2K; as has been said, look at the vids of Anti ****** ADHD and tell me that that's a bad matchup for MK.

 

[etecoon]

I do think some other characters are stepping it up a bit, because MK has so many top players his metagame was further ahead of most other characters for a long time and I think that advantage is starting to disappear. but MK still da bess and he still beats every other character regardless, M2K just getting outplayed and people are studying his ***

 

[Denti]

I think people are afraid of change :D

 

[Player-4]

ITT: BLM as usual.
Seriously, MK is not getting worse, nor is everyone else getting better by comparison. M2K is simply being outplayed. Sure, M2K sucks against diddy, and apparently olimar as well. But that's M2K; as has been said, look at the vids of Anti ****** ADHD and tell me that that's a bad matchup for MK.

How can you say people aren't getting better if they're outplaying people? Lmao that makes no sense. It's not just M2K getting beat here. Lots of top MKs lost at MLG this last week.

 

[Zozefup]

I'll translate:

"MK is not getter worse, nor is (every other character) getting better by comparion. M2K is simply being outplayed (and it has nothing to do with other characters catching up to MK). M2K sucks against diddy and apparently olimar as well. But that is M2K (not MK as a character); as has been said, look at the vids of Anti ****** ADHD and tell me (Diddy is catching up to MK). The match up is still in MKs favor; no match ratios have changed because of recent events."

I don't agree with this though. I think MK is overrated. I think if he really was a broken character, he would be winning MLGs. Especially since his metagame is twice as far a long as any other character.

MK is the best character in the game, but he is amazing because his metagame is farther ahead of the curve. Not because he is actually a broken character.

 

[lilseph]

I'll translate:



I don't agree with this though. I think MK is overrated. I think if he really was a broken character, he would be winning MLGs.

LOL ARE YOU KIDDING?!
M2K has won 3 straight MLG singles titles, and he loses once and now MK is suddenly "not winning MLGs". MK as a character has won 3/4 MLG events and has been in all 4 MLG doubles finals.

I will agree with you he is overrated. There are some aspects of his game that even i find stupid, but he is not broken as people have proven he is beatable.

 

[V]

I think mk will never be dethroned from best character in the game but I think in time he'll be in A tier with the others

 

[Enzo]

I think mk will never be dethroned from best character in the game but I think in time he'll be in A tier with the others

yah that's what i think also

 

[Staco]

I'll translate:



I don't agree with this though. I think MK is overrated. I think if he really was a broken character, he would be winning MLGs. Especially since his metagame is twice as far a long as any other character.

MK is the best character in the game, but he is amazing because his metagame is farther ahead of the curve. Not because he is actually a broken character.

You miss one thing here. Every characters Metagame in the MK MU is developed extremly far.
Every player has got a lof of MK practice, because there are so many.
Most players lack at MUs such as Marth, Olimar or Pikachu.

 

[Izaw]

THANK GOD, FINALLY people are starting to realize this. MK WILL fall eventually, loosing his "God Tier". Still he will be top tier though. Just like Shiek in Melee. Falco, Diddy Kong, Olimar etc. all will rise above MK.
I've been telling this to people for like a year now.

 

[Dru2]

^not sure about Falco or Oli going ABOVE mk. Maybe even, but not better.

However, that makes me think, if mk fell in the tier list, would there be an increase or decrease of people who main him?

 

[Karcist]

THANK GOD, FINALLY people are starting to realize this. MK WILL fall eventually, loosing his "God Tier". Still he will be top tier though. Just like Shiek in Melee. Falco, Diddy Kong, Olimar etc. all will rise above MK.
I've been telling this to people for like a year now.

No... Just no...

Getting second place at 2 nationals doesn't mean a character will be more viable than MK or even just as viable in the future. I think Olimar is underrated but I can't see him rising above Falco and I definitely can't see Falco rising above MK. I could see Olimar rising to 5th on the next tier list if he gets a little more rep.

 

[Enzo]

MK will NEVER drop lower than 1st on the tier lsit

but doesnt change the fact that he may be weakening

 

[z00ted]

this is a troll thread

 

[Kaffei]

okay, just stfu and get better

 

[Zozefup]

However, that makes me think, if mk fell in the tier list, would there be an increase or decrease of people who main him?

I'd switch. Seriously. I think a lot of other MKs would too. Most MK mains play him because of his tier.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

How can you say people aren't getting better if they're outplaying people? Lmao that makes no sense. It's not just M2K getting beat here. Lots of top MKs lost at MLG this last week.

I'll translate:

Thanks.

THANK GOD, FINALLY people are starting to realize this. MK WILL fall eventually, loosing his "God Tier". Still he will be top tier though. Just like Shiek in Melee. Falco, Diddy Kong, Olimar etc. all will rise above MK.
I've been telling this to people for like a year now.

I really doubt it. MK is basically built without a weakness. Seriously. He, as a character, is obscenely broken. Not autowin, but it's simply obvious that he has all the tools to be the best in the game. Diddy and Falco are good, but they have clear, documented weaknesses. And bad matchups. HEY GUYS, WE NEED TO LEARN THAT OLI MATCHUP!

 

[vato_break]

I think it's a matter of experience, m2k doesn't have alot of 'practice' against diddy kong or olimar. I've seen tyrant vs. rich alot and tyrant almost always wins, i've seen anti vs adhd and anti almost always wins. These players have long history with each other and the mks will have the advantage because mk wins the matchup, of course there are other factors but, i think a mk that knows the matchup will come out on top. Also mk vs. diddy i think it's probably barley even at best, if m2k had a solid diddykong training partner he would not lose as hard as he does, imo because it looks like he loses in situations where he makes a bad choice and he could of choose a better one but, did not think it clearly.

 

[LTM]

he will always be 1st :D

 

[etecoon]

I really doubt it. MK is basically built without a weakness.

gj losing to lucas with a character that has no weaknesses

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

gj losing to lucas with a character that has no weaknesses

Yeah, and placing fourth the first time I actually go to a tournament or play with people who aren't desperately far below my level. I bet you'd lose to Raven, Crifer, and Sic as well. Please stop being a douche about it. MK doesn't have any real weaknesses. Doesn't mean that he's unbeatable or even broken, but it does mean that he is probably the best char in the game.

 

[etecoon]

yes he most definitely does have weaknesses, and refusing to acknowledge them is only going to hold you back as a player, you can't guard against an achilles heel that you're in denial of

also placings don't matter, only who you win/lose to. I won the first tourney I ever went to, because there were two other decent players there. and I've lost to a low tier once too(riot's zelda) but I don't go around saying stupid things like my character has no weaknesses

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

yes he most definitely does have weaknesses, and refusing to acknowledge them is only going to hold you back as a player, you can't guard against an achilles heel that you're in denial of

MK has almost no considerable weakness. Slow air speed? Great glide, tornado, massive range. Low weight? Best momentum cancelling aerial in the game. Lack of projectile? Ability to tear through almost every projectile wall with ease, tornado, etc.

also placings don't matter, only who you win/lose to. I won the first tourney I ever went to, because there were two other decent players there. and I've lost to a low tier once too(riot's zelda) but I don't go around saying stupid things like my character has no weaknesses

Yeah, well I lost to the best lucas in germany (got 2nd) and the guy who got third.

 

[Tesh]

M2K : is he losing power?

 

[Zozefup]

yes he most definitely does have weaknesses

I really wish MK had a good jab. That is the biggest weakness I can think of. Most characters who manage to get inside MKs range typically win. Falcos frame 2 jab is annoying

MK just isn't good enough.

 

[theunabletable]

MK has almost no considerable weakness. Slow air speed? Great glide, tornado, massive range. Low weight? Best momentum cancelling aerial in the game. Lack of projectile? Ability to tear through almost every projectile wall with ease, tornado, etc.

Bad air release.

 

[V]

I think his slow air speed makes spacing with him easier

 

[napZzz]

so many ******** opinions in this thread

tl;dr-a few mk's lost, but it doesn't mean metaknight is getting any worse. I dont like taking those mlg matches TOO seriously anyways because of the tv lag. The slight difference matters...

 

[Karcist]

gj losing to lucas with a character that has no weaknesses

Ravenlord is actually a really good Lucas.

 

[etecoon]

I dont like taking those mlg matches TOO seriously anyways because of the tv lag. The slight difference matters...

this so much, people are talking about other characters stepping it up but you notice how most of the low/mid tier upsets have been at MLG?

if you want meta knight to not be a cancer to the metagame, play on HDTV's only <_<


olimar players are definitely stepping it up though, copying from brood now like MK's all copied from M2K

Ravenlord is actually a really good Lucas.

I never said he wasn't

 

[Coney]