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Meta Knight Q&A Thread

Dojo

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
Location
Time Chamber, Texas
Ahaha you would. :)
Small breakdown of what I try.

Edgeguarding - wait for glide attacks. stay under. improv from there. Edgeguarding another mk is so ridiculously hard....
Recovery - Tornado works wonders.
Approaches - Tilts, fairs, idk?
Defenses - Attack like a madman.
When - I have no clue.

Haha i really hate the matchup too bro. I did better against you and DMK then i thought.
I just improv everything. Try to react fast. Save the kill moves. Hope for lucky gimps. The matchup is too gay for words.
 

KingAce

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
961
I have a question regarding the snake matchup.. this matchup is like death for metaknight. when a snake starts to camp with grenades, i usually like to dash grab or SH airdodge in through the side and do a shield grab, ftilt or dsmash from there. however, most snakes will end up spot dodging the dash grab and ftilt to punish it. whenever i side dodge in, an ftilt is coming my way or im getting grabbed. i really have troubles approaching a snake that camps, because maybe 50% of the times i will get snake in the air from there but thats not good enough... with snake he can make like 3 mistakes and get punished all 3 times where mk makes 1 mistake and mk is in trouble. also, mk dies from utilt at like 90-95% where snakes usually live around 150% against mk... could you help me out with some tips about approaching and just how to fight a campy snake in general?
 

K1T3

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
1,312
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Lol you answered =P
It seemed to me I got stage spiked a whole whole lot.
So yeah stay under, don't let them gimp you.
Aside from that the matches were/would've been good I think. Your timing and positioning off stage were simply much better than my own.
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
Location
Time Chamber, Texas
I have a question regarding the snake matchup.. this matchup is like death for metaknight. when a snake starts to camp with grenades, i usually like to dash grab or SH airdodge in through the side and do a shield grab, ftilt or dsmash from there. however, most snakes will end up spot dodging the dash grab and ftilt to punish it. whenever i side dodge in, an ftilt is coming my way or im getting grabbed. i really have troubles approaching a snake that camps, because maybe 50% of the times i will get snake in the air from there but thats not good enough... with snake he can make like 3 mistakes and get punished all 3 times where mk makes 1 mistake and mk is in trouble. also, mk dies from utilt at like 90-95% where snakes usually live around 150% against mk... could you help me out with some tips about approaching and just how to fight a campy snake in general?
Ok. I'm actually decent at this matchup. I've beaten some of texas' top players in tourney with 2-0 sets. Main thing I've realized is that every snake loves to spotdodge. So its simple.
When you want a grab. Run up shield, and pause for the spotdodge. Then grab. Same with smashes. And all of your attacks. From there a smart snake will tend to notice that, so you have to mix it up from there.

And if you get them off the edge. Pressure the hell out of them. Snake's airgame fails compared to MK's if you know what your doing. You can rake up alot of damage and sometimes gimp him if you play your edgegame correctly.

I dont know why I tend to like this matchup and everyone else hates it. I usually fair just fine. And its not against scrubby snakes. They tend to place high in all of the Texas tourneys. But yeah if you have anymore questions feel free to ask.


Lol you answered =P
It seemed to me I got stage spiked a whole whole lot.
So yeah stay under, don't let them gimp you.
Aside from that the matches were/would've been good I think. Your timing and positioning off stage were simply much better than my own.

Haha yeah the matches were intense man. I really need to learn rainbow cruise. :p
And yeah I put alot of focus on my edgeguarding because with MK's overpowered recovery it makes him an insane edgeguarder. The best in the game if mastered in my opinion. Its too good.

And santi tends to mix up his recovery alot so it keeps me on my toes with that. I just wish i had more ppl to practice dif characters. The only matchups I have down is TL and wolf. :p
Anybody else I really just improv and try to react to everything fast. And MK is just too broken. xD
 

Roager

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
704
Location
Idaho
Ok, question now, what are MK's worst matchups? I'm told Snake, but that doesn't seem to be that hard.
Personally, Lucas and Pika give me the most trouble. And, of course, the ditto match. Any others?
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
11,635
Location
Maryland
Random Things to Know:

- In MK dittos, the smartest person with the best spacing wins. F-tilt when MK charges at you. Use tornado as a recovery as well as edgeguard (MK can't up+b through MK's tornado). MK dittos are seperated in to two pieces: the ground game and the ledge game. Two smart MK's will do little to no edgeguarding since edgeguarding MK is very dangerous. Oh, and most people sidestep a lot in MK dittos; especially when they feel like they're in d-smash range.

- MK vs. G&W is difficult if the MK is being too offensive. Nearly every aerial G&W has out prioritizes MK and because a good G&W is always in the air, MK's ground game is less effective. Know things that work and don't work. When your below G&W, 9/10 they will come down with a key. Powershielding key to d-smash is great. If a G&W short hops to f-air, be ready to punish them because there is a lot of landing lag. If you're above, expect an up+b and intercept with a d-air or just get out the way. F-tilt works great against G&W ground wise. Don't get hit by G&W's d-throw to d-smash. Respect the f-smash and never stay "inside" of a G&W. G&W's kill moves are his f-smash, d-smash, up-smash on the ground, and his key (his f-air is way too predictable to get hit by). Space everything and never get in close unless you're guaranteed a grab or you're tornado'ing in and out.

- The Omnigay is an awesome name.

- The "Omnigay Team" is already in use by me and G-Regulate, who uses Snake. If the other team knows what they're doing, double teaming Snake hurts the strategy a lot. Better to just spend more time getting good at the game then trying to master this technique.

- MK vs. Snake is dangerous. IMO, a perfect MK will always beat a perfect Snake, but that's a silly analogy. Simply put, MK's speed allows him to manuever and punish Snake violently. All setups with MK should have the common goal of attempting to knock him off the stage, no matter what his % is. Once Snake is in the air for whatever reason, don't be an idiot and chase after him like a dog to the neighborhood car. Wait for the airdodge, then attack. If they catch on, assume that they won't air-dodge and punish before they can think twice. It's a rock, paper, scissors game. Oh, and if they f-tilt you and your shield, please dash grab them ty.

- A little more about campy Snakes. If you rely on tornado, you're screwed. Campy Snakes will hold on to their grenades (leaving room for the Omnigay), or the majority of the time roll -> grenade drop because it's an anti-tornado defense. Get slightly out of Snake's f-tilt range and be patient. Alot of them will roll into you or sidestep. A MK slightly outside of anyone's range makes them get very anxious to do some kind of evasive manuever. When in doubt, just stick to the air. If you see them full-hopping to n-air, learn what parts of the move you can punish it.

For the record, I'm not bad at this game.
 

lonelytraveler8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
259
Very good info in some character specific match-ups. You made G&W sound almost impossible to defeat with MK, though. Although I imagine MKs is fully capable of brutally punishing the things you said to look for.

Edit: I hear alot that Snake is hard to kill. Once he's off the stage, is he really any harder to finish off them anyone else? I know he has his Super Armor frames when he uses his up+B, but that doesn't make his recovery instantly solid does it?

When I last came to smashboards regularly, Snake wasn't really considered anything special. He's developed a lot already, but I honestly don't know much about playing against him.
 

bluebolt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
306
Location
earth
What do you do if your enemy is standing around, waiting for you to attack so they can
a. shield and grab
b. counter
c. use a final smash
 

Quez256

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
333
Location
Zacoalco, Mexico
What do you do if your enemy is standing around, waiting for you to attack so they can
a. shield and grab
b. counter
c. use a final smash
a. Attack from the air/Dash-grab/Tornado/anything that wreaks hell on their shield; this can change based on who you're fighting
b. Depends on your opponent
c. Again, depends on who you're fighting, but I don't use items.

Edit: Just a thought, but concerning point a, if they're shielding, drill rush at them, but aim low; since it eats through their shield relatively well, it can usually land a hit near their feet (hence, aim low) somewhere along the duration.
 

Jump_Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
95
Is MK a good Falco/ROB/Pikachu counter? I use MK for fun, and I'm just wondering if he can counter these three. Whenever I play online and win as Yoshi, my opponent always switches to Falco or ROB. It get's kind of annoying.
 

lonelytraveler8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
259
R.O.B. definitely, as long as you know what to expect from a good one. There seem to be very few good ones, which kinda sucks because the play-style is very different from what I've seen. Anyways, MK is definitely a good choice against R.O.B.

Pikachu, I'm not sure, but I suspect this one will be more even, but still slightly in MK's favor, simply due to the sword and pikachu being a pretty light character. And I think you can tornado and drill rush Pika's projectile if it's running along the ground.

Falco is different. Falco is the hardest and most dangerous of the space animals to gimp. His laser is fast and knocks you out of the Mach Tornado and the Drill Rush. His chain grab doesn't work as well against Meta Knight, but you can still expect to be caught in it for several throws, and then usually ended with an easy usmash. His fsmash is devastating and outpriortizes and outranges most of MK's ground moveset. And finally, his shine is capable of spacing against you when you're putting a lot of pressure on him.

That being said, I still put this in MK's favor based on my experience. Falco is the match-up I have the most experience with, and once you get in close, you're usually fine. Just space properly and get him in the air. Falco has an ok, but not great, aerial moveset and all of them are extremely inferior to MK. Most of your kills will probably come from high percentage dsmashes or mid-high percentage Shuttle Loops just off the edge of the stage. His illusion attack makes it easy for him to recover horizontally and also makes it dangerous to follow him off-stage as it will spike you with a decent amount of force. It likely won't kill you, simply because MK has the best recovery in the game, but it will put you at a disadvantage, which you should avoid at all times against him (or anyone, for that matter). A well time fair can break the illusion, but it's difficult. You're better off guessing where he'll land and just be there to punish it. That's the major weakness of using that recovery and it's a pretty good one. If you suspect he'll try to sweet-spot, you can try spamming dtilts or dsmashes right at the edge. If he gets it, just go back into regular edge-guard mode.

So that's all I can think of at the moment. I can answer specific questions if you have any.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
which of these two is harder for MK to play against and why?: Lucario or Marth
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
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Time Chamber, Texas
Well, unfortunately, I haven't played a really good lucario yet. But the marth matchup is definitely a tough one when played correctly.

I just played RoyR's marth this past weekend at one of the biggest Texas tournaments so far. RoyR is arguably the best player in Texas atm and wrecked 3 of the top MK's in a row including myself.
He could

-edgeguard amazingly well
-destroy the tornado
-outprioritize attacks with amazing spacing
-get grabs into tipped fairs
-and play a really solid ground game

I wish the matches had been recorded because it was such a good fight. Both our fights came down to really high percentages. He is just amazingly good. Marth is really an extremely tough matchup for the knight.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. Hopefully this helps you out some.
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Maryland
I can beat all the Marth's in my area fairly well. Azen's Lucario gives me, M2K, and Forte a lot of trouble. Other than Azen's Lucario, I really haven't faced any other Lucario's at his calibur, but a very decent Lucario is definitely a tough for MK.
 

selendrile

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
169
Location
San Diego, CA
You guys got any tips on how to approach a good Toon Link? Seems to be the hardest matchup for my MK. Awesome thread btw!
 

Infinitysmash

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
2,045
Location
Funky Town, Texas
Well, unfortunately, I haven't played a really good lucario yet. But the marth matchup is definitely a tough one when played correctly.

I just played RoyR's marth this past weekend at one of the biggest Texas tournaments so far. RoyR is arguably the best player in Texas atm and wrecked 3 of the top MK's in a row including myself.
He could

-edgeguard amazingly well
-destroy the tornado
-outprioritize attacks with amazing spacing
-get grabs into tipped fairs
-and play a really solid ground game

I wish the matches had been recorded because it was such a good fight. Both our fights came down to really high percentages. He is just amazingly good. Marth is really an extremely tough matchup for the knight.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. Hopefully this helps you out some.
He also footstools like a champ. :mad:
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
Location
Time Chamber, Texas
Haha I never experienced that. Or I dont remember it at least...
After watching your matchup with him I tried to avoid the edge and play a bit of a different style... but he's just really good with that matchup.
 

Amide

Smash Lord
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,217
Location
Maine
Three stupid questions:

1: Is it OK to spam the tornado?

2: Is it actually possible to beat a skilled Snake with MK?

3: Is it ever safe to edgeguard in MK dittos?
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Time Chamber, Texas
1. I've done it before... Can't say I'm proud. It worked to some extent though.
Here's my example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhOvOShZ4gI
You can look through the rest I did it in all the matches...

2. Yes. Very possible. You just have to learn the matchup.

3. Not safe but possible. Just have to be really careful. And know how to do it.
 

Amide

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,217
Location
Maine
I'm bored, want to play my MK? (Hey, that technically counts as a question, right?)
 

ShaolinAce

Smash Ace
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
515
Location
Regina Saskatchewan Canada
1. I've done it before... Can't say I'm proud. It worked to some extent though.
Here's my example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhOvOShZ4gI
You can look through the rest I did it in all the matches...

2. Yes. Very possible. You just have to learn the matchup.

3. Not safe but possible. Just have to be really careful. And know how to do it.
Woah dude. You must have heard it hard for that one.
 

Amide

Smash Lord
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Maine
If it's so easy to win spamming the tornado, why don't we see it in tournaments more?
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
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Time Chamber, Texas
It's not easy to win with it. A skilled player can punish it and win with ease.... which is exactly what he did with G&W. It worked good against falco but that was about it.
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
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Time Chamber, Texas
Yeah I've learned to tech it. I never had practice against G&W and I was just getting owned left and right by it. I've learned a few things to watch for since.

But yeah, MT works to a certain extent... but spamming it the way I did there isn't something I'd recommend...
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
Location
Time Chamber, Texas
What stages are good stages for MK? I've heard Luigi's Mansion is one, but what are others?

What are bad stage for MK? Which ones should I avoid?
Rainbow cruise is definitely a good one for MK when you learn how to use it. Personally I think stages like lylat cruise and PS1 are great because the way that the edges of those 2 affects alot of characters recoveries dont affect MK's, making it good for edgeguarding and gimping easier. I also think FD's lipped edges make for good edgeguarding as well.

As for bad stages, I dont feel there are any truely bad stages for MK. It's just really dependant upon the character your playing against.
 
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