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Meta Knight Q & A

t!MmY

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I was recently asked a question about Meta Knight's apparent lack of strength and what exactly this means for us prospective Meta Knight players. I decided to post the Q & A here for the benefit of everyone.
Machspeed said:
Hi, I'm an aspiring Meta Knight user, and since you have experience, I thought why not come ask you :D.

Alright, I've been meaning to ask for quite awhile. Now, Meta Knight's wearing down capabilities are nice I know with his speedy weapon I know. He can build percents like a charm. The only thing I'm worried about, is to finish off characters. People have been saying the knight's KOing capabilities are really low compared to other characters.

Mind clarifying this for me?

Thanks in advance,

Machspeed
t!MmY said:
The clarification is simple. I tried out all his attacks, and none of them had significant power to KO. I routinely had to get opponents to 130 - 150 percent before KOing them without aid from a powerful item.

U-smash was DI'd out of very easily and is best as a triple-hit damage racker or a vertical launcher at low percents - it was very unreliable as a KO move.

D-smash felt very weak and wasn't particularly useful as either a combo starter or a finisher, but probably as an edge-guard option.

F-smash was Meta Knight's best choice to go for a KO. It wasn't especially strong, but it was strong enough to KO lighter characters somewhere near the 130% mark.

The other options I had available to me was:

F-air on a damaged opponent as they tried to return to the stage (around 130%) hoping that the close proximity to the side-border would offset the weakness of the attack.

Building an insane amount of damage (over 150%) and then striking with a moderately powerful attack like U-air, F-air, or Up Special.

Spiking with a Footstool Jump or D-air as an edge guard.

Hope this helps. I'm going to post this in the Meta Knight thread to spark discussion and help answer questions that other people might have.
 

Machspeed

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Thanks again for the speedy reply, people be sure to ask t!mmy if you have any meta knight questions; he can help.
 

UtopiaXD

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i remeber this was a really big imbalance kind of like kirby. Except kirby wasnt good at building damage either. If meta knight is bad at KOing then its gona put a big burden on him as a character.
 

t!MmY

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Meta Knight can footstool?
What about Walljump?
And also, what do you think is the best combo for MK with a killing move?
Yes.
No.
F-air to ... Edge-Guard. Lol.

Speculations on combos are rather premature at this point, dontcha think? We only had four exhibition days (minus standing in line) to try out as much of Brawl as we could. Besides, a "killing move" for Meta Knight would either entail hitting them at high percents or a gimp.
 
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light att to FS I think is the best combo for MK.
MetaKnight's final smash really can combo decently (but not against a player that knows what they're doing), it can be done out of a throw out of a throw. MetaKnight's attacks can't string together as well as people assume they can because of the launch trajectory. But take this with a grain of salt considering that we haven't had enough time to experiment with said character.

Hey T!mmy, I played MetaKnight at E For All just about as much as Fox. I'll help you out if you're not here. ;)
 

Not A Naruto Wannabe

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can meta knight pursue foes in midair much like you would with kirby?
also i heard that all of meta knight's moves have some recovery capabilities is this true, thus making MK have many options for different recovery situations?
 

WeXzuZ

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Thinking of Triple Dash/Drill Rush, this attack can be steered up and down.
Is it usefull to use as a spike/meteor move?
How much height does MK recover with Shuttle Loop (compared to another character in the demo roster)?
Watching your video playing as MK I think you are the correct one to ask:
What are his winning poses and phrases.
I already saw one in a video where he swung his sword saying "Victory.. Is my destiny".

Thanks in advance
 

RedKnight

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i doubt he can walljump, since he has multiple jumps and gliding (though it would be cool)

Im pretty sure Everyone can footstool jump.

Im betting that Gliding, Crawling, and Wall Jumping are special, and each character can only do one of them
 
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Thinking of Triple Dash/Drill Rush, this attack can be steered up and down.
Is it usefull to use as a spike/meteor move?
How much height does MK recover with Shuttle Loop (compared to another character in the demo roster)?
Watching your video playing as MK I think you are the correct one to ask:
What are his winning poses and phrases.
I already saw one in a video where he swung his sword saying "Victory.. Is my destiny".

Thanks in advance
Drill Rush isn't a good meteor move because the knockback at the end knocks the opponent upwards, but it can be used to push an opponent off the edge then safely DI back.
Shuttle Loop recovers near the same height of Roy's Up B, but it has great Hoizontal potential as well.

About his victory poses, the other two:

-He encompasses himself in his cape and then vanishes (Dialogue Unknown)

-He flails his cape out and then he stands there in his battle pose (Dialogue Unknown)

It was hard to hear anything because of the noise in the convention.

Is Dimensional Cape a good edgeguard? What else is it good for if no?
No, it isn't. I often found myself using it as a substitute for a roll at random, or I would just use it to get safely to the ground if i'm above my opponent considering that MetaKnight is vulnerable from below.

can meta knight pursue foes in midair much like you would with kirby?
also i heard that all of meta knight's moves have some recovery capabilities is this true, thus making MK have many options for different recovery situations?
MetaKnight can persue an opponent in mid air well because of his horrible aerial mobility. MetaKnight's moves can be used as recovery techniques, but his Shuttle loop should be his primary recovery method because all of his B moves end in free fall.
 

t!MmY

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can meta knight pursue foes in midair much like you would with kirby?
also i heard that all of meta knight's moves have some recovery capabilities is this true, thus making MK have many options for different recovery situations?
Kirby is terrible at pursuing foes in midair, both in chasing and in comboing. Meta Knight is about on par with that, but the game itself has changed so it's not as detrimental as in Melee.

Thinking of Triple Dash/Drill Rush, this attack can be steered up and down.
Is it usefull to use as a spike/meteor move?
How much height does MK recover with Shuttle Loop (compared to another character in the demo roster)?
Watching your video playing as MK I think you are the correct one to ask:
What are his winning poses and phrases.
I already saw one in a video where he swung his sword saying "Victory.. Is my destiny".
Drill Rush is not usable as a spike/meteor smash. It hits multiple times, dragging your opponent with you, and then pushes them away at the end. Tilting it up and down just changes it's trajectory, and doesn't do much more beyond that from what I saw at the demo.
Shuttle Loop's vertical recovery is pretty awesome. The stages are fairly small, so it's more than adequate to return to the ledge. After that, you Glide automatically giving you amazing horizontal recovery, which isn't especially dire considering the size of the stages, but still opens up even more recovery options.
I don't really know his phrases since the volume was very low and the Nintendo Girls were always screaming "press1press1!". But his poses were similar to his taunts, like brandishing his sword or swirling into his cape and disappearing.

Is Dimensional Cape a good edgeguard? What else is it good for if no?
It's not a good edge guard. No one I saw used it well, and some people described it to me as "like Kirby's Stone, but faster" because they just held Down after executing it. I used it to vanish from an oncoming attack and reappear behind the attacker and swipe at them with my sword. I also used it to vanish from a platform to the ground (you can see me try it in my Meta Knight vs. Sonic video but accidentally do a Drill Rush instead because of the sensitivity of the Classical Controller). You can also use it in place of a Sidestep Dodge, vanish in place to avoid an attack, then reappear and strike your attacker immediately afterward. It also adds to Meta Knight's already awesome recovery.

Does that imply that both MK and Pit have a slow air game.
Yes.

Eternal phoenix Fire, if you want to answer any questions I don't get to that would be great. But most importantly, if you can add anything that I missed that would be even better. Like the winning poses and dialogs, for instance.
 

Dry Bones

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i'm curious about meta knights 'mach tornado' move. how useful did you find it? in the videos it doesnt look great in terms of damage, so i was just curious
 
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i'm curious about meta knights 'mach tornado' move. how useful did you find it? in the videos it doesnt look great in terms of damage, so i was just curious
This may be biased on my behalf to an extent, but I love Mach Tornado. It's a move that is fairly easy to manuever around and can inflict as much damage as Drill Rush if used properly. The ability to move around and elevate MetaKnight with this move is amazing, and can blanket MetaKnight in a scure position. One of the things I live about this move is it's ability to negate projectiles early in the animation. I would actually use this move often when i'm vulnerable. This move is under rated.
 

Dry Bones

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wow, thanks for the info... the projectile thing in particular is very good to know. the move looks very appealing in terms of its looks, but i didnt see it used very effectively in most of the videos, so i just had to ask

cheers mate =)
 

Elec Man EXE

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I'll chime in on one little thing about Meta's victory poses.

The one where he disappears, there is no dialog. Or at least none that I could hear. Makes sense that there isn't, he's vanishing after all. The other one, where he flips his cape back and stands idle, he says "You have much yet to learn". Or something to that effect. Very fitting for him, since he's usually "testing" Kirby in the games. You can hear it at the end of one of the early videos. I'll see if I can't figure out exactly which video.

EDIT: Found it. Here.

Oh, and I've got a question of my own. Still about Mach Tornado. Just how well does it actually manuever, both height-wise and horizontally? Can you actually pursue people with it in the air, and how would it compare to his normal air speed?

EDIT#2: Thought of something else. Obviously Meta Knight's B> is directable. Is that direction one-way only, or can you change it more than once? Basically, if you steer it up, can you then steer it back down, or can you just keep further up?
 

t!MmY

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When I first played, I didn't think Mach Tornado was very useful because the speed that you can move it is pretty slow. But Meta Knight isn't very fast, himself. Also, I found that I could control the duration of the Mach Tornado by tapping Special Attack. This makes it much more useful because you can catch someone with it and then follow them to build up the damage.

Having it as a recovery option is always good because it can keep your opponent guessing.

Negating projectiles wasn't very interesting to me because you can swipe them out of the air with your sword, catch items, or just shield or dodge easier. Still, the option is there.

Oh, and I've got a question of my own. Still about Mach Tornado. Just how well does it actually manuever, both height-wise and horizontally? Can you actually pursue people with it in the air, and how would it compare to his normal air speed?

EDIT#2: Thought of something else. Obviously Meta Knight's B> is directable. Is that direction one-way only, or can you change it more than once? Basically, if you steer it up, can you then steer it back down, or can you just keep further up?
From my description of its speed above, you can guess how poor of a job Mach Tornado would be to pursue people. I won't say it's not possible, but you'll have to get close to execute it rather than chasing them down with it. It's about as fast as his normal air mobility.

Drill Rush's maneuverability is probably different than what you think based on your question, so I'll describe it in a little more detail. Once you use it, you move forward a short distance before you can change its trajectory. Once you do, it takes the entire duration to fully change to an upward or downward position, but you'll be pointing almost completely up or down. I don't think changing midway to another direction will do much, but it doesn't matter too much because if you caught someone and angle yourself up your opponent will be going up, too.
 

RoxasXIII

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cuz its awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jl mk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

RoxasXIII

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i heard that when u do shuttle loop(upB) that you'll auto go into glide right after that.
 

RoxasXIII

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and how long does glide last? you would think u wud just keep goin till u eventually hit land or somethin
 

RoxasXIII

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it'd be cool if knuckes the echidna was in the game. just cuz he could glide and he doesn't have wings.
 

RoxasXIII

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also, i read in this thread asking if mk could footstool jump, well everyone can.
 

RoxasXIII

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i wonder what'll happen when they get to a character with no feet. lol.
 

RoxasXIII

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then again, they'd probably just plop on the enemy and jump off like that. ha
 
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God dammit Roxas!!

Will you please stop spamming and posting consecutive messages. Have you ever been on a forum before? You can post all of your information in one post rather than act like you're using AIM.

Jesus...
 

RoxasXIII

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsvIkex05yQ
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
my fav mk vid. shows him and sonic in sudden death, mk wins! :) also, at the end you can hear mk talk in his sexy non-spanishvoice.

i dont think you can cancel out of gliding. my logic is that glides are too short, so the option og canceling has been taking out.
also, can anybody give me a link to a video with someone else beside mk doing a glide. cuz all ive seen is mk, not like thats bad or anything.

:)
 

t!MmY

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There's a lot of questions about Gliding. It's really simple, actually. You can move into a Glide after holding down the jump button or go into "auto-Glide" after a Shuttle Loop. It can be canceled after pushing the attack button (no FallSpecial afterward) or when landing (there's landing lag). That's about it. Oh, you can maneuver up/down with the control stick while Gliding.
 

Elec Man EXE

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How fast is gliding? In comparison to other movements.

All the vids I've seen with gliding end too quickly for me to get a good idea. Seems everyone angles down as soon as they start to glide.
 

SolidSonic

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Who is better at flying/floating, Kirby or MK?

And if Meta-Knight is faster and a better floater, do you think that means Kirby will be stronger?
 
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How fast is gliding? In comparison to other movements.

All the vids I've seen with gliding end too quickly for me to get a good idea. Seems everyone angles down as soon as they start to glide.
Gliding moves fairly fast. It's as if you're running in the air (A speed comparison).t after it's used once, you can't use it again after another jump. When you land from the glide, there is a very laggy animation at the end, and you can potentially slide along the ground if you come in at a horizontal angle. Gliding is good for recovery purposes, but don't use it when it isn't necessary.

Who is better at flying/floating, Kirby or MK?

And if Meta-Knight is faster and a better floater, do you think that means Kirby will be stronger?
There is virtually no difference between the amount of air mobility/momentum of Kirby and Meta Knight. They have multiple jumps, but have horrible air mobility (Unlike Jiggs, who has amazing air mobility and momentum control). Physical movement for them is the same.

At this point, I can say that Kirby is definitely stronger that MetaKnight in terms of KO power, but Meta Knight can rack up more damage though, which really negates the ability to kill at low percentages in the long run, taking into consideration that they're both light characters. I can't vouch for which one is better in Brawl, for no one has played with him yet. Let's wait and see which is better in the long run.
 
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