• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Q&A Meta Knight: Questions & Answers Thread (Don't make or reply to new threads just asking questions)

Trunks159

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
431
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Trunks159
Not sure how the Kirby matchup goes. It'll be hard to get grabs since Kirby is an expert at just endlessly throwing out hit boxes and pokings shields. Metaknight does not respond well to pressure. Comboing Kirby is also not as easy, and Kirby punishes really well. Up B also may not work as well (due to Kirby's lightness), and gimping Kirby is very difficult. Our kill options and combo ability are gimped.
Its also hard to combo :4metaknight:, and he can ran away from :4kirby: for a long time. Approaching Kirby also shouldn't be difficult. 60:40 doesn't sound right though.

We probably shouldn't discuss matchups in this thread though.
 

KingDaiGurren

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
236
Thanks for the response. Sorry if this should've gone in the MU thread. I'd thought it'd be a one response (2 at most) question.
 
Last edited:

warionumbah2

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,077
Location
Playing KOF XIV
Comboing Kirby is also not as easy,
Incorrect. That's just something YOU struggle with, uair strings aren't hard to land, footstool combo's are easy to land because Kirby is floaty, Down throw to grounded shuttle loop and other variations are braindead easy to land.
Up B also may not work as well (due to Kirby's lightness)
Incorrect. I can name lighter and floater characters that still get shuttle looped, it seems like you came to that conclusion because he's 'floaty'.
and gimping Kirby is very difficult.
Incorrect. That's once again something you struggle with, Kirby literally has nothing to stop us other than air dodging.

Our kill options and combo ability are gimped.
Incorrect. I don't know what else to say, you're making assumptions on MKs abilities because Kirby is 'floaty'. MK combo's floaty characters perfectly fine and this is the 3rd time i read 'MK struggles to kill' when it comes to Kirby.
 
Last edited:

Trunks159

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
431
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Trunks159
Incorrect. That's just something YOU struggle with, uair strings aren't hard to land, footstool combo's are easy to land because Kirby is floaty, Down throw to grounded shuttle loop and other variations are braindead easy to land.

Incorrect. I can name lighter and floater characters that still get shuttle looped, it seems like you came to that conclusion because he's 'floaty'.

Incorrect. That's once again something you struggle with, Kirby literally has nothing to stop us other than air dodging.


Incorrect. I don't know what else to say, you're making assumptions on MKs abilities because Kirby is 'floaty'. MK combo's floaty characters perfectly fine and this is the 3rd time i read 'MK struggles to kill' when it comes to Kirby.
Kirbys are really rare (and so are MKs) so not too many have a ton of experience with the matchup, though I have a little, since one of my friends mains Kirby competitively.
The floaty characters seem to escape from my shuttle loop more often then others, and I pretty good at tilting it. I've watched MK a lot of competitive MK videos (and obviously I am one myself) and the amount of whiffed MK combos (esecially up air strings) is large. Escaped shuttle loops happen quite often also.

Kirby has multiple jumps, and a good recovery. If you're playing any good player, they will always tech. Hes just not easy to gimp.

It seems to be a matter of difference in opinion, but in my experience, and in others', my complaints are logical concerns.
 

warionumbah2

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,077
Location
Playing KOF XIV
Kirbys are really rare (and so are MKs) so not too many have a ton of experience with the matchup, though I have a little, since one of my friends mains Kirby competitively.
The floaty characters seem to escape from my shuttle loop more often then others, and I pretty good at tilting it. I've watched MK a lot of competitive MK videos (and obviously I am one myself) and the amount of whiffed MK combos (esecially up air strings) is large. Escaped shuttle loops happen quite often also.

Kirby has multiple jumps, and a good recovery. If you're playing any good player, they will always tech. Hes just not easy to gimp.

It seems to be a matter of difference in opinion, but in my experience, and in others', my complaints are logical concerns.

Uair strings only whiff because of player, it just means you messed up the combo, if it happens multiple of time you need to hit training mode. His recovery is very easy to edgeguard having multiple jumps is ok but his aerial mobility is horrible and unlike D3 he has poor range non disjoint aerials.

You dont play the MU often as well as struggling to edgeguard and combo a character like kirby.Problems like that is not the character its the player, I have killed with shuttle loop on many light characters and if it missed its mainly because of platform jank.
 
Last edited:

Trunks159

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
431
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Trunks159
Uair strings only whiff because of player, it just means you messed up the combo, if it happens multiple of time you need to hit training mode. His recovery is very easy to edgeguard having multiple jumps is ok but his aerial mobility is horrible and unlike D3 he has poor range non disjoint aerials.

You dont play the MU often as well as struggling to edgeguard and combo a character like kirby.Problems like that is not the character its the player, I have killed with shuttle loop on many light characters and if it missed its mainly because of platform jank.
Up air string can fail due to pressure, DI, the multiple hitboxes dash attack can hit (straight up is one), staleness, rage, ledges in the way, not knowing the %s required on every character, and simply by messing up the strict timing. Its difficult to pull this off against an opponent who knows how to DI dash attack and down throw. Training mode won't help.
Dthrow or dash attack to up b at too low %s can be punished.
Something like Diddy's Hoo Hah, or Lucario's upthrow to up air, or any combo for Luigi out of grab have much more room for error.

Well, I don't really go for up air strings much anyway since mach tornado is just too easy not to use (+ more dmg). I've killed with shuttle loop on light characters, but sometimes it ends up whiffing the second hit.
 
Last edited:

warionumbah2

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,077
Location
Playing KOF XIV
Down throw to grounded shuttle loop can only be punished if missed, kirbys fall speed won't make it in time. I can easily go In depth about combos that work on kirby in rage, high percents, DI but I choose not to since MKs should pick this up themselves(and it'll be a long post too lazy).

Uair strings are depended on the player and percents, this isn't even MKs only combo so when you say alot of MKs combos fail I just think its the player not doing it right.

If you think MK gets punished after shuttle looping kirby after a dash attack then you really need to play this MU before giving input. This is kirby not link and d3.

Im not a fan of theorycrafting MUs I haven't played.
 
Last edited:

W.A.C.

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
738
Kirby can die stupidly early with shuttle loop because he's so light.
 

KingDaiGurren

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
236
If it helps progress the discussion I'm open to setting up matches with anyone who wants to.

I haven't played the match up myself, but a lot what you're saying, @ Trunks159 Trunks159 , seems odd.

Sorry this took up so much space on your Q&A when it was a matchup Question. I'll throw in what I know about the matchuo based on the few really good MK I've played.

Kirby v Metaknight in my opinion is in metaknights favor.

Starting off in neutral Kirby players know kirby's approach options are pretty lackluster, especially considering we can't even it up with copy due to Metaknight not having a projectile. Based on this Kirby will try to bait Out meta knight which isn't too difficult because of the confidence a lot of MK players have in their multitude of approach options and options to mix up their approach. Moving on though I'd say that Kirby would get most of his damage from punishing MK for whiffs, poor spacing, over confidence, and if the match permits catching him off guard. The MKs that I've played all seem to play very patiently though, in a weird way. They are aggressive and force you into bad spots at first but when they have the lead they allow you to make mistakes and bait you in for kills. Kirby does get more base damage off of grabs but MK does have better follow up potential. On top of this MK out of shield game is worlds beyond kirby's imo. In default Kirby doesn't really have any options unless you have mach tornado. But that's not the best option considering MK knows how to deal with his own moves. At first MK gets easy combos on Kirby for sure but I'd say that after a certain percent rage and knock back change so the same combos don't work.

That being the case, better Kirby's won't throw out stone all the time, plain and simple. Stone isn't safe in any way and tbh the only time I use it is if I have a good read, to go for a risky ( but well paid off) mixup, or if the game is very close and shuttle loop whiffs. That being said though the much better option if shuttle loop whiffs is to chase MK back down to the stage and either get a grab or start a string. If I had to give any advice to MK though it'd be to use dimensional cape is rarely as a Kirby would use stone. I've been able to get good punishes on whiffed dimensional capes when they've been used with repetition. But then again I assume good MKs know not to throw it out in the same way good kirby's won't throw out a hammer flip or a stone. I don't know much about tilts other than that MKs will primarily use d tilt to poke and f tilt as a solid option. But I think that both have a pretty similar reach in terms of them. Kirby's dtilt trips and can lead into strong combos or attacks but the same can be said for MK.

Off stage neither has an advantage in terms of the number of jumps which can be frustrating. But MK can spike and kill with bair which is annoying... as well his nair seems to be safe as well as his uair and dair which i think allow him to kind of camp Out a single spot with little to no need to worry about recovering. Both do very well in how creative and ballsy they are willing to get off stage. Off stage both seem to thrive on what the other thrives on. MK prefers for characters to be above him while Kirby is better on top. Going further meta knights will edge guard with falling Bair, nair, and will pressure approaches with Dair. Kirby on the other hand will use fair and bair to wall, bait with jumps and use dair to kill off stage. Trying to foot stool is also an option. But I think MK wins out offatage just due to his priority and the fact that he has more kill options than kirby.

In a vanilla matchup I'd have to say MK 55:45 Kirby. To me it just depends on who is playing whom. But with customs I'd have to say its a bit more even with meteor stone and Kirby basically getting a MK kill option with his upper cutter. But the Kirby boards advise against upper cutter in this matchup as it's a free kill for MK.
 
Last edited:

arncakes

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
103
Location
Canada
NNID
arncakes
This may have been asked before, but what control setups do you guys use? Mainly for jump, is it bad to use c-stick for smashes and X/Y for jump? Just curious.
 

W.A.C.

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
738
~Pro Controller Setup~
Jump: B & L
Attack: A
Specials: Y & R
Grab: X & ZL
Block: ZR
Right Analog Stick: Attack
Tap Jump: Off
Rumble: On

I do most of my jumping with L and most of my aerials with the right stick.
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
I have actually been contemplating using a different controller. Meta Knight needs to initiate a jump squat from dashes and shield for Shuttle Loop but using tap jump on him is not very good because holding or buffering up on the analog stick automatically uses your jumps after the first double jump, and using L (I use R for shield) is not that great on the GCC because of the dead spot in the trigger. Pro controller seems ideal for that, outside of the right stick being on top instead of on bottom.
 

arncakes

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
103
Location
Canada
NNID
arncakes
Only thing is, aren't pro controllers illegal for some larger tournaments? Also, what are the advantages to using L/R for jump and aerials with the c-stick?
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
Only thing is, aren't pro controllers illegal for some larger tournaments? Also, what are the advantages to using L/R for jump and aerials with the c-stick?
It is only the Gamepad that is illegal because you can only use one per Wii U.

Using L/R or another button for jump allows you to use moves like Shuttle Loop out of shield while having tap jump off. Unfortunately the GCC is not very good for that.

C Stick for aerials is good in certain situations, like if you want to use down air while moving left or right but maintaining your momentum, or using forward air while moving backward, vice versa.
 

Fye

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
95
Location
Midwest
NNID
FE-Judge
Gamecube controller with default controls except tap jump/attack+special smash/rumble are set off. Shuttle loop from down throw and out of shield are easier for me because I hold the controller claw. I can press jump slightly before I input shuttle loop.

I also played Melee Jiggs for a while and learned how to keep my aerial momentum without the c-stick, so I'm comfortable with just having the stick for smashes.
 

warionumbah2

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,077
Location
Playing KOF XIV
Gamecube controller

With tap jump on,rumble off and c-stick set to attack.

Tap jump doesn't hinder my uair ability and it gives MK extra height when using shuttle loop. Shuttle loop OOS is easier to perform with tap jump on and FH uair is easy to land if i want to set up footstool combo's.

C-stick is set to attack so i can juggle opponents longer using walking utilt, it also gives me a quick option if my opponent lands infront of me after getting footstooled. SH and then FF into buffered Dtilt is easy to do as well.

One thing i miss is pivot F-smashing but i can trade that for a better juggle tool and footstool combo's.
 

ItoI6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
383
Location
Oakland, Cali
i just use regular controls without rumble on. i used to use c-stick set to attack so i could lock but when people fall behind me i just 1st hit bair, and i was so used to smash attack c-stick that i kept ****ing up because of it.
 

arncakes

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
103
Location
Canada
NNID
arncakes
Cool! Nice to know I don't need to have c-stick to attack to be a decent player, lol. I honestly just prefer default controls with no tap jump and shield/grab switched. The pro controller scares me because of the interference issues I've heard of in tournaments.
 

LostinpinK

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
110
Location
France
NNID
Ailkah
Damn everyone is playing with tap jump on. With 7+ years of smash without tap jump I don't think I'll be able to get used to it.
 

W.A.C.

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
738
I can't stand tap jump. Dabuz, one of the best Smash 4 players out, has tap jump turned off because he hates it as well. lol Though character can make a huge difference as well. I know that Ito has tap jump enabled for Meta Knight, but disabled for Diddy Kong.
 
Last edited:

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
I wanna talk about move set stuff for a hot second.

I land a really ridiculous amount of kills with Forward Smash. I feel like it's a really great move overall, especially as a Smash attack. Thoughts?

Also I was briefly talking with Katakiri about this earlier but F Tilt is so limited. I pivot it and use it to counter SH aerial approaches but what else do you use it for? I want it to be a good move.... But it seems so situational.
 
Last edited:

W.A.C.

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
738
TBH, his forward tilt is my least favorite tilt by him largely because it's basically a jab instead of a tilt. This wouldn't be so annoying for me if it weren't for the fact I do most of my tilts with the right analog stick and not doing it through a button pretty much always screws up my forward tilt. There's a lot of situations where I would find it useful if it weren't for the whole hit it three times fast. When would I not want to hit it three times fast? Very rarely does the way it work benefits me at all.
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
I wanna talk about move set stuff for a hot second.

I land a really ridiculous amount of kills with Forward Smash. I feel like it's a really great move overall, especially as a Smash attack. Thoughts?

Also I was briefly talking with Katakiri about this earlier but F Tilt is so limited. I pivot it and use it to counter SH aerial approaches but what else do you use it for? I want it to be a good move.... But it seems so situational.
I already ranted about this. Forward tilt is not that great. It's first actionable frames for tilt 1-3 are not good, and what do you get out of it if you hit the opponent? Not much. Forward smash gives you a clean 16% even if it hits the sour spot, and down tilt leads in to combos and frame traps, both of which are also very difficult to punish. Overrated move.

Forward smash is nice because it dissuades the enemy from entering your space and it becomes very dangerous at higher % because it kills so well.
 
Last edited:

ItoI6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
383
Location
Oakland, Cali
use it after you dimensional cape, bait fsmash or you dash attack past someone and someone is trying to run after to punish. for fsmash especially i see some people buffer dtilt after fsmash and it totally whiffs on people running in to punish because they completely misjudge just how little cooldown the move has and run in too slowly lol. it has a bit of overlap of tactics that bait punishes with instant dash attack and run backward+foxtrot back at them but it still has its uses.
 
Last edited:

KOOMAN

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
20
Location
Watertown,N.Y.
NNID
obliviousloser
Does anyone know what to do against toon link? I find it a very hard match up for metaknight any help would be appreciated
 

Bonk!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
248
Location
Philly
NNID
IPAVGSSB
3DS FC
2638-1531-9991
I hear stuff in the MU threads about reverse n-air beating recovery options. Does the back hit of n-air have more priority? I'd really appreciate that being explained.
 

Pazx

hoo hah
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,590
Location
Canberra, Australia
NNID
Pazx13
I hear stuff in the MU threads about reverse n-air beating recovery options. Does the back hit of n-air have more priority? I'd really appreciate that being explained.
I think the hitbox is just larger and therefore more disjointed towards the back of MK.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
There are 3 MUs I cannot stand: :4luigi::4yoshi::4zss:

Luigi isn't that bad and I know it but it's just really draining. The other two I just think are really hard. Suggested secondary to make life easier? If it's solid in customs, bonus points.
 
Top Bottom