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metaknights weaknessess

brinboy789

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Only weakness MK has is that he gets ko'd at early percents but not necessarily early in the stock since he's so hard to get a hit on. You might as well forget to shield-grab the ****er, you'll probably wind up whiffing and get down smashed.
not true C.Falcon can beat a good snake look at Roy_R's Falcon he almost beat melee1's IC's and he's #1 in Texas idiot and who still gives a **** about grammar on the internet EVERYBODY(most everybody) are lazy on the net so they dont give a **** so STFU about grammar ****.(and if u have WiFi lets play intsead of wasting are time here)[/QUOTE]
@ brinboy- Grammar is important. It can keep individuals from getting jobs and creates a bad impression.[/QUOTE]

i didnt say that. that was echo or somebody.
and no offense, but ur username doesnt give a good impression...lol
and sonics faster then MK, harder to hit him then MK
 

*_Echo_*

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not true C.Falcon can beat a good snake look at Roy_R's Falcon he almost beat melee1's IC's and he's #1 in Texas idiot and who still gives a **** about grammar on the internet EVERYBODY(most everybody) are lazy on the net so they dont give a **** so STFU about grammar ****.(and if u have WiFi lets play intsead of wasting are time here)
@ brinboy- Grammar is important. It can keep individuals from getting jobs and creates a bad impression.[/QUOTE]

i didnt say that. that was echo or somebody.
and no offense, but ur username doesnt give a good impression...lol
and sonics faster then MK, harder to hit him then MK[/QUOTE]

that was me and i dont think falcon is that bad but thats just me and grammar is only imprtant in jobs and stuff like that not the internet.
 

M@v

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he has no significant weakness.

Yes, hes light, but he will have probably chewed you to double that percent range by then

Yes, no projectile. But tornado and shuttle loop say "hi"

Yes, less range than a lot, but he has massive priority

Basically, he weaknesses really dont mean much in the whole scope of things.
 

Kouryuu

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posting so some haters will stfu

Cons

* Light Weight
* Slow aerial movement
* Weak attacks in general
* No projectiles
(taken out of t!Mmys guide)
also:
~all b moves when used cannot recover until you hit the ground.
~main moves, dsmash + tornado get weakened FAST
-MK being lightweight is probably the only weakness that really sticks out.
-Slow aerial movement.. ? This means nothing. MK has one of, if not, the fastest aerials in the game.
-Weak attacks? Um.. Dsmash, Fsmash, tipper Uptilt, Nair, UpB... These attacks have tremendous knockback and are indeed fairly strong when they are not stale. Also, weak attacks mean nothing considering the fact that he can rack up damage really fast. Also, he possesses unparalleled gimping potential which could lead to quick kills at early percents.
-Projectiles don't mean anything.
- Why would you use his B-moves in the air anyway (save for UpB)? Learn to play smart. That's not even a weakness.
-The fact that you think his Dsmash and Tornado are his main moves must mean your a noob.


Bad matchups:
~ Dk
~ Diddy
~ Lucario
~ Pikachu
~ Game and watch
(not mentioning neutral
yes, MK has more good matchups then bad and more pros then cons BUT so did melee fox why didnt he get banned
MK has arguably no bad match ups. You just don't have any match up knowledge regarding those "bad match ups" so you assume MK in general does poorly against them.

MK vs DK is neutral.
MK has the advantage vs all the other characters in your list of bad match ups.

And also, like MK, Melee Fox did not have any bad match ups either.

Metaknight is broken, whether you come to accept it or not. It's just the way it is.

But that's competitive smash for you. Smashers will always flock to the top tiers. The only REAL downside to maining MK is that everyone is going to know how to fight him in the future. It will be the most common match up.
 

*_Echo_*

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MK is not that broken his strongest single move % wise is his glide attack which does 12-14% max i am NOT including combos wich u can getout of.
MK is hard to hit so is kirby there the same size 1 is not as fast yes MK has combos that ARE escapable unlike kirby(f-throw to up-air) but no one complains about that.
 

Viral-Enki

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I found that good projectiles and ranged airials destroy him.
He has a slowish fall speed, which doesn't help when the opponent has good air combos like Olimar or Shiek.
And no projectile simply means he can get caught in the enemies ranged assults.
 
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posting so some haters will stfu

Conns

* Light Weight
He's heavier than Fox.

* Slow aerial movement
Gliding+Extremely high priority aerials

* Weak attacks in general
Mach Tornado ***** through shields, His aerials are extremely fast, can gimp at any given time, Shuttle loop ***** in the air, and all of his attacks generally have broken *** priority.

* No projectiles
His Tornado can stop projectiles, in addition to the fact that he's so fast he can outzone many projectiles.

(taken out of t!Mmys guide)
also:
~all b moves when used cannot recover until you hit the ground.
~main moves, dsmash + tornado get weakened FAST
Bad matchups:
~ Dk
~ Diddy
~ Lucario
~ Pikachu
~ Game and watch
(not mentioning neutral
yes, MK has more good matchups then bad and more pros then cons BUT so did melee fox why didnt he get banned
Even if they are bad match ups he still dominates every tournament. Melee Fox wasn't banned because the mechanics of the game allowed character to maneuver. To Brawl, Meta Knight is like Melee Fox except every other character can't L-cancel or maneuver around his attacks.

Fox was beatable, but at this point the Meta game is at a stand still because of Meta Knight.

An it has come to my attention that anyone who thinks that Meta Knight isn't dominant must have:

-Never played anyone good.
-Never been to a tournament.
-Not good themselves.
 

Rh1thmz

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I wish that people would stop making such dumb threads on the MK boards and actually spend their time learning matchups and other important things...

It would solve a lot of our problems regarding MK flaming and such.

Btw...one weakness that you guys forget (which isn't even a weakness in tourney play)

~TERRIBLY nerfed online >.>
 

brinboy789

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He's heavier than Fox.


Gliding+Extremely high priority aerials



Mach Tornado ***** through shields, His aerials are extremely fast, can gimp at any given time, Shuttle loop ***** in the air, and all of his attacks generally have broken *** priority.



His Tornado can stop projectiles, in addition to the fact that he's so fast he can outzone many projectiles.



Even if they are bad match ups he still dominates every tournament. Melee Fox wasn't banned because the mechanics of the game allowed character to maneuver. To Brawl, Meta Knight is like Melee Fox except every other character can't L-cancel or maneuver around his attacks.

Fox was beatable, but at this point the Meta game is at a stand still because of Meta Knight.

An it has come to my attention that anyone who thinks that Meta Knight isn't dominant must have:

-Never played anyone good.
-Never been to a tournament.
-Not good themselves.
gliding still requires TIME to glide aerials dont have amazing priority. just range and speed

tornado does NOT **** through shields. his priority is among the top but not the highgest. like around 10th

his tornado only stops projectiles which have lower priority then it. not all. sonics faster.

it doesnt matter if he dominates lots of tournaments. and its not everyone. what happened before when snake was dominating? sure some people use metaknight. if you look atthe amount of times the threads have been looked at, metaknight is at around the 5th place. theres higher people that look at otehr boards. not saying that that proves anything, maybe people just wanna look at otehr boards. and theres a poll saying which chari s ur fav/main, and MK got like 5%, and like not first. other ppl play more.

no johns. no excuses. suck it up that were using top tier and go on with ur life. of u can die, it doesnt rly matter to me. :p
 
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gliding still requires TIME to glide aerials dont have amazing priority. just range and speed

tornado does NOT **** through shields. his priority is among the top but not the highgest. like around 10th

his tornado only stops projectiles which have lower priority then it. not all. sonics faster.

it doesnt matter if he dominates lots of tournaments. and its not everyone. what happened before when snake was dominating? sure some people use metaknight. if you look atthe amount of times the threads have been looked at, metaknight is at around the 5th place. theres higher people that look at otehr boards. not saying that that proves anything, maybe people just wanna look at otehr boards. and theres a poll saying which chari s ur fav/main, and MK got like 5%, and like not first. other ppl play more.

no johns. no excuses. suck it up that were using top tier and go on with ur life. of u can die, it doesnt rly matter to me. :p
Go to tournaments and play, otherwise my point stands. Secondly, learn some punctuation and grammar so I can read this without succumbing to selective dyslexia.

I'm not johning about anything. I freakin' use Meta Knight. He's the character that I used more than anyone, and I still play with him frequently, you just need to recognize what is broken and what isn't.

I've read this before, and I find it generally true: "Priority is a word used by players who don't have any knowledge on how character advantages work in a match up". Meta Knight may have some weaknesses butt hey are not disadvantages considering that his advantages can easily encompass a lesser character to where they are unable to exploit them properly.

Snake was dominating tournaments because Meta Knight's exploits were not fully developed, and people didn't know of his broken tactics. Snakes Meta-game hasn't evolved that much over these few months, but Meta Knight's has.

At this point there is no possible way to convince me that Meta Knight isn't dominant. Look at every major tournament and check their mains and secondaries, Meta Knight among the other four characters will be in the winning brackets from here on out.

Meta Knight is a broken instrument. You can think of as many tactics as you want, but you can never out think frames and statistics. I'm done.
 

brinboy789

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Go to tournaments and play, otherwise my point stands. Secondly, learn some punctuation and grammar so I can read this without succumbing to selective dyslexia.

I'm not johning about anything. I freakin' use Meta Knight. He's the character that I used more than anyone, and I still play with him frequently, you just need to recognize what is broken and what isn't.

I've read this before, and I find it generally true: "Priority is a word used by players who don't have any knowledge on how character advantages work in a match up". Meta Knight may have some weaknesses butt hey are not disadvantages considering that his advantages can easily encompass a lesser character to where they are unable to exploit them properly.

Snake was dominating tournaments because Meta Knight's exploits were not fully developed, and people didn't know of his broken tactics. Snakes Meta-game hasn't evolved that much over these few months, but Meta Knight's has.

At this point there is no possible way to convince me that Meta Knight isn't dominant. Look at every major tournament and check their mains and secondaries, Meta Knight among the other four characters will be in the winning brackets from here on out.

Meta Knight is a broken instrument. You can think of as many tactics as you want, but you can never out think frames and statistics. I'm done.
yes i know he dominates tournaments so? what does that prove? guys lets ban the guy who wins more tournaments k? metaknight doesnt have amazing priority. its just that his speed and range are amazing and priority doesnt really matter at that point
 

JesiahTEG

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Ok. I just want to clarify one thing. Pikachu, in no way shape or form, has ANY sort of advantage over Metaknight whatsoever.
 

Tenki

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for the last time, small weight is bad! an extreme example is sonic, whos very fast and small
...
metaknights best kill move = up b. dsmash quick but not that strong. fsmash = strong but noticeable startup lag. shuttle loop automatically goes into glide. yes i know you can glide cancel but you still are in a gliding state for a while.

if you actually want to use tornado to hit the opponent more then twice, ur gonna haveto rapidly tap b, which makes MK vulnerable to attacks while hes falling
spacing for the next one
. thats all i can say. besides, you can also just walk away while hes gliding if ur that afraid of the no-lag glide attack
- Sonic isn't that small, unless he's in a spindash lol. He's only fast with his ground movement. His kill moves are all ridiculously slower and weaker than you'd want them to be.
- On the idea that small weight is bad, I'm guessing heavy weight is generally good. Like when they're being juggled or caught in something ridiculous like bullet seed.
- When people refer to Metaknight being 'fast', they're talking about his moves. Almost no startup or ending lag, and his aerials have very little landing lag. On top of that, his attacks are disjointed. People thought Olimar had alot of priority before, but it was really because his attacks came out so fast and he'd hit them before they got to start moves. Metaknight can do that too. Just use your quick moves and space well, and they won't be able to attack. Someone mentioned that MK's combos are escapable. Of course, the majority of 'combos' (er, juggles) are escapable in Brawl, but MK's attack speed lets you follow up your miss and punish your opponent's dodge sooo much easier.
- Up-B isn't as spammable as D-smash, so if you can pin your opponent with D-smash, you can land that kill move or set up for an off-stage gimp easier.
- What is this about Tornado? Why would a good metaknight player, who's fully aware of the 'falling' weakness even go high enough to allow an opponent to punish him as he's falling? Weave in with a floating tornado (better range/priority), weave out while falling, repeat.

Light vertical weight is MK's weakness, and it's only a statistical one. His horizontal control allows him to survive horizontal kill moves pretty well, similarly to Kirby/GAW.

Aside from light weight, all the weaknesses you wrote in are way too easy to get around.
 

Skyflyer

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All of the match ups you mentioned are even.

About the weak attack thing, the speed of them makes up for it.
 

brinboy789

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- Sonic isn't that small, unless he's in a spindash lol. He's only fast with his ground movement. His kill moves are all ridiculously slower and weaker than you'd want them to be.
- On the idea that small weight is bad, I'm guessing heavy weight is generally good. Like when they're being juggled or caught in something ridiculous like bullet seed.
- When people refer to Metaknight being 'fast', they're talking about his moves. Almost no startup or ending lag, and his aerials have very little landing lag. On top of that, his attacks are disjointed. People thought Olimar had alot of priority before, but it was really because his attacks came out so fast and he'd hit them before they got to start moves. Metaknight can do that too. Just use your quick moves and space well, and they won't be able to attack. Someone mentioned that MK's combos are escapable. Of course, the majority of 'combos' (er, juggles) are escapable in Brawl, but MK's attack speed lets you follow up your miss and punish your opponent's dodge sooo much easier.
- Up-B isn't as spammable as D-smash, so if you can pin your opponent with D-smash, you can land that kill move or set up for an off-stage gimp easier.
- What is this about Tornado? Why would a good metaknight player, who's fully aware of the 'falling' weakness even go high enough to allow an opponent to punish him as he's falling? Weave in with a floating tornado (better range/priority), weave out while falling, repeat.

Light vertical weight is MK's weakness, and it's only a statistical one. His horizontal control allows him to survive horizontal kill moves pretty well, similarly to Kirby/GAW.

Aside from light weight, all the weaknesses you wrote in are way too easy to get around.
metaknight is 4th lightest = utilt frmo snake kills @ around over 90
yea...i dont have anything to say against priority because it makes him harder to ban :laugh:
well hes fast. get over it
you cant just win a match with dsmash. tahts like winning a match without snakes ftilt. it just doesnt work
bottom point - because if you dont go up with the the tornado, you wont be able to hit with it more then once. :urg:

point proved.
 

brinboy789

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metaknight is 4th lightest = utilt frmo snake kills @ around over 90
yea...i dont have anything to say against priority because it makes him harder to ban :laugh:
well hes fast. get over it
you cant just win a match with dsmash. tahts like winning a match without snakes ftilt. it just doesnt work
bottom point - because if you dont go up with the the tornado, you wont be able to hit with it more then once. :urg:

point proved.
i meant with only snakes ftilt :dizzy:
 

Tenki

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metaknight is 4th lightest = utilt frmo snake kills @ around over 90
yea...i dont have anything to say against priority because it makes him harder to ban :laugh:
well hes fast. get over it
you cant just win a match with dsmash. tahts like winning a match without snakes ftilt. it just doesnt work
bottom point - because if you dont go up with the the tornado, you wont be able to hit with it more then once. :urg:

point proved.
-I don't know if you've noticed, but characters have different 'resistance' to vertical and horizontal kills - some characters will regain control and be able to float back horizontally alot sooner than others. Vertically, Metaknight is really light (maybe 15-20% lighter than Marth). Horizontally, he's probably 5-10% lighter than Marth.

-I'm not saying (and I'm not an advocate of) spamming D-smash, but unstale, it's really dangerous. And it's not that hard to hit with it.

-Tornado hits multiple times anyway, what are you talking about? If you mean hitting the opponent with multiple tornados, it's not that hard to catch someone in it, which is why people are annoyed about it in the first place. I'm not saying to stick with grounded tornados, either. Just SH-height tornados so you can float right above your opponent's shield, then weave out before it ends, and restart.

Still not as big of a problem as you make it sound, since MK's game has so much more than just the tornado.
 

Nic64

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Metaknights weakness is pasta :p
yup, too lazy to compare anyone side by side but if I'm remembering correctly I think metaknight would be the second fattest character if you're looking at a height to width ratio -_-
 

Nic64

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that's like saying that MK is in shape if he sucks his gut in, doesn't count IMO
 

TKD

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Metaknight is the best Metaknight counter, people have to stop posting as if any other character had an easier time, they get pressured to an obscene level, while a MK doesn't vs another MK.

MK may have a neutral matchup, maybe two, but those other two characters don't destroy the rest of the cast.
 

Mmac

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Metaknight is the best Metaknight counter, people have to stop posting as if any other character had an easier time, they get pressured to an obscene level, while a MK doesn't vs another MK.
The only problem is that a Ditto pretty much comes down to how well they can handle their character. MetaKnight is NEVER going to be a counter to himself, because there's little to no chance to beat a MetaKnight that is more skillful than you, not to mention probably 95% of the MetaKnights know how to deal with themselves

Even if characters like DK, Diddy, Snake, and Yoshi don't do better (45 to 50), They'll stand a far better chance compared if you try to Ditto. They all have exploitable attack and/or properties that they can actually use to gain the upper hand, and is also determine on how well the MetaKnight knows how to deal with the character you are using.


Point is, In theory, MetaKnight is probably is his hardest matchup in theory, but you can never use him to counter other MetaKnights. It's impossible
 
D

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MK has a major weakness that you all forgot about, and I forgot about it too.

MK is too "broken". In other words, people (that aren't me) think MK is too good and want him banned. If he's banned, he's instantly unusable and therefore bottom tier.

Discuss.
 

Swordplay

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because even though he didnt talk about the topic at hand he mentioned many of his weaknesses that i overlooked. and even if he can overcome some of his weaknesses, its the same with every freakin char. u just gotta learn how to overcome your weakness.
No. Just No.

This is not melee, This is not a game that has a lot of AT's built into the game that you can abuse to overcome your characters weaknesses. In melee, you could be really good at wavedashing and other AT's with Roy and defeat a very good sheik. This is because in melee, AT's provided mindgames to overcome your characters weaknesses.

This is what brawl lacks and weaknesses and strengths stick out more. Come play Link for a weak. You'll see what I mean.
 

cman

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Come play Link for a weak. You'll see what I mean.
Lol at freudian slip!!

And, umbreon, the general argument for the meta ban is that he is destroying tourny diversity, and therefore killing the popularity of the game afaik.
 

aeghrur

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DK's range extends his hurtbox so whileh e has range, he doesn't have more priority so he doesn't break MK's attacks.
having a sword as long as FD means little if a jab can stop it everytime.
Considering MK's are disjointed he isn't going to be in much danger even if DK starts to harass with tilts.

DK Bair is predictable you see his back to you while in the air, dash beneath him and Usmash.

Edit1: Are you saying go to the Sonic forums as an insult? Cause trust me the Sonic forums are far from being unintelligent and they also type well.

edit2: Too bad if you don't want people saying he is small and fast that is a fact and it hides that weakness very well.

10edits
We're very intelligent, just too lazy and fun loving. =)
and steak loving.
10steaks.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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the only weakness I see for Metaknight is his weight
But DI helps this a lot and he has too quick and high priority moves to be able to get to high enough percentage to easily kill
There are a few reasons I see him broken: mostly priority, overly small lag of moves, and the most broken recovery I have seen since Smash 64
If Metaknight did not have overpowered priority, Metaknight would still be top but he would have a bunch more weaknesses.
If Metaknight’s tornado had a bit less priority, Metaknight would not be as broken and his matchups would be a lot worse
If Metaknight’s Down Smash wasn’t as quick or at least had some ending lag, Metaknight would not be as broken
Brinboy, have you ever played vs. a top Metaknight? Have you even seen a match with M2K in it? Or do you just go by nearby tourneys where the basic Metaknight is a joke?
 

HolyKnight

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the only weakness I see for Metaknight is his weight
But DI helps this a lot and he has too quick and high priority moves to be able to get to high enough percentage to easily kill
There are a few reasons I see him broken: mostly priority, overly small lag of moves, and the most broken recovery I have seen since Smash 64
If Metaknight did not have overpowered priority, Metaknight would still be top but he would have a bunch more weaknesses.

If Metaknight’s tornado had a bit less priority, Metaknight would not be as broken and his matchups would be a lot worse
If Metaknight’s Down Smash wasn’t as quick or at least had some ending lag, Metaknight would not be as broken
Brinboy, have you ever played vs. a top Metaknight? Have you even seen a match with M2K in it? Or do you just go by nearby tourneys where the basic Metaknight is a joke?
Thanks for pointing out the obvious for us all, no one knew that until now.

Yes because tornado is THAT powerful, it kills at 40% right? Tornado is ONE move, it doesn't define his entire matchup scheme. Most people that are good with the character don't use it as much as you think.
 

Tbagz

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ok seriously, all this MK hating is starting to get annoying quick post because im lazy and dont feel like a long post.

MK may rack up damage fast, but when im fighting budo in my crew who mains snake, i can ****ing pull off a 6 hit combo, and he ****ing foward tilts me ONCE and its basically tied.

2, a fmash from dk at like 50%- knocks you out
an u-tilt from snake knocks u out at 70-85%

seriously, MK isnt that OP is he amazing? yes, but people need to stfu and start taking advantages of his down sides

edit: holy is right about the tornado, i HARDLY use it, just when there off the edge and im getting some extra damage.
 

judge!

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the fact is mk has even matches currently and has no reason to be banned. if he had an advanatge over everyone of course he should be banned. if you know what to do with zss and diddy kong u will beat 95% of mk players...trust me. dont just rely on snake. most mk players know how to handle snakes. 95% of mk players have no idea how to handle diddy. and they def have no idea how to handle a good ZSS. its like 3 am cut me some slack on this making next to no sense lol.
 

Deoxys

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the fact is mk has even matches currently and has no reason to be banned. if he had an advanatge over everyone of course he should be banned. if you know what to do with zss and diddy kong u will beat 95% of mk players...trust me. dont just rely on snake. most mk players know how to handle snakes. 95% of mk players have no idea how to handle diddy. and they def have no idea how to handle a good ZSS. its like 3 am cut me some slack on this making next to no sense lol.
The problem is, if 50/50 matchups are his absolute worst, it is strategically incorrect to play anyone else in ANY metagame.
 

Deoxys

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edit: holy is right about the tornado, i HARDLY use it, just when there off the edge and im getting some extra damage.
By the sound of it you should be using the Nado more. On certain stages/situations, it is the best option you have.

Oops, double post. X.x
 

M15t3R E

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Actually, it's agreed upon that MK's worst match-up is against Snake. That match-up is arguably 55/45 in MK's favor. Some say 60/40.
So there you have it. ALL of MK's match-ups are in his favor.
Then against every other character, MK has at least a 60/40 advantage. Usually better than 60/40. He completely ruins a fundamental strategy in high levels of play- there are no counter-pick characters or stages against MK. He's the flaw that breaks counter-picking and the sole character out of 35 characters that wins about 30% of tournaments. He's just too much and needs to go for the sake of Brawl's competitive future.
 

Deoxys

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Actually, it's agreed upon that MK's worst match-up is against Snake. That match-up is arguably 55/45 in MK's favor. Some say 60/40.
So there you have it. ALL of MK's match-ups are in his favor.
Then against every other character, MK has at least a 60/40 advantage. Usually better than 60/40. He completely ruins a fundamental strategy in high levels of play- there are no counter-pick characters or stages against MK. He's the flaw that breaks counter-picking and the sole character out of 35 characters that wins about 30% of tournaments. He's just too much and needs to go for the sake of Brawl's competitive future.
Tell that to the good Yoshi, Snake, Olimar, and ZSS players. They're convinced that they go even. :p
 

M15t3R E

Smash Master
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They all theorize that they can, but I just don't see it. Olimar's and ZSS's range, Yoshi's grab releases, Snake's sheer power. All that's nice but is not enough to call any of them an even match-up. Meta Knight still has ridiculous speed, range, and priority over every character. Plus, Meta Knight is by far the easiest character to avoid being punished as. He's god tier for a reason.
 

Deoxys

Smash Lord
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near Boston, MA
They all theorize that they can, but I just don't see it. Olimar's and ZSS's range, Yoshi's grab releases, Snake's sheer power. All that's nice but is not enough to call any of them an even match-up. Meta Knight still has ridiculous speed, range, and priority over every character. Plus, Meta Knight is by far the easiest character to avoid being punished as. He's god tier for a reason.
They don't just theorize, they play it out... whether or not you see it is irrelevant, it's still true. If you understand the matchups you see why they have equal options and equal opportunities.
 
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