Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
This was related to Mewtwo and a very good addition to the topic! Keep the post quality up man!:bigthumbu
What I hate about my main is that DK is near useless when facing towards his opponents.
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Q&A Mewtwo Philosophy - Q&A Ask Away
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
What I hate about my main is that DK is near useless when facing towards his opponents.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10989752#post10989752
does anyone feel m2 has helped them out a lot like mindgames or whatever?
does anyone feel m2 has helped them out a lot like mindgames or whatever?
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Pretty much the story of my life is kaos having a lot of discussion and me not feeling like reading through all of it.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Some of my Game Theory-
The metagame is the gameplay that involves decisions and actions from competitors based on the events happening in the game. We've all seen examples of the metagame at work. Players coming up with new solutions, new risks, and new punishes to gain the competitive edge. Getting hit by attacks used to be bad in some situations, but the current metagame has numerous advantages in recovery and punishes for getting hit.
Crouch Cancel rests, ledge teching back airs, CC grabs, and numerous other options and trades that may not have been considered in the past are now relevant in high level gameplay.
Mindgames and exploits are all a part of the metagame, but what about the game outside of the game?
I'm exploring some of the issues, ideas, and advantages of external gaming, or physical and psychological gaming.
Interpersonal Mindgames and Tactics
An easy example of external gaming would be listening to your opponent's shoulder clicks for ledge rolls. Instead of it becoming a mindgame, or an act of prediction, you now have a degree of consistency in quickly determining an opponent's options. The only inconsistency would be your spacing and timing. Then advancing the "metagame" of the external game would be to buffer your ledge recoveries with a ledge attack or simply recovering normally while mashing L or R to influence the opponents punish. Some people may respond subconsciously to the triggers even if they're not aware of the sound, too.
I remember a long time ago, I used to make noise whenever I wanted to influence a response from an opponent. A quick "AHH, BOOM, or a *gasp*" would force shields and airdodges and give me easy punishes. I've even found that many players would give away what they were planning by putting their body into their movements. When someone wanted to go for an offstage gimp or suicide attack, they would also attempt to lunge at me with their body; you could sense the act of aggression from your opponents.
This awareness creates new levels of skill in inhibition control. Calmly recognizing the attack when it happens and using your opponent's physical actions and movements to your advantage. There are even tales of players straight up looking at their opponent's controllers to see how they're going to DI their throws.
I want to know your guys' opinions on that. Do you think that looking at your opponent's controller is fair game? We have also seen the Mike Haze rule in Brawl, I've even done something similar to Wobbles in tournament before to get him to mess up an infinite. I originally got the idea from MvC players shaking the arcade box while they're getting infinited. There is definitely a line that shouldn't be crossed and the Mike Haze rule is probably a good line, but just how far should we allow the players playing to distract each other?
On the subject of fairness, there has also been quite a bit of disparity on the past on the "Noise" factor. I love getting hyped and I don't mind the hype when I'm playing, but some players prefer matches to have a chess or golf atmosphere and would prefer to have complete silence while they're playing and then maybe some cheering after the match is over.
These are videogames, this is trash talking on Xbox live and battle.net, we play this game for fun and concentration and focus through all distractions should be another factor in skill just like in the vast majority of popular games and sports like basketball, football, hockey, and soccer. I think crowd cheering is becoming more and more accepted as people are getting used to it, and as long as there is a limit to how unruly the crowd can be, I think it is healthy for the community and the game as whole. It makes the matches more fun and easier for everyone watching to get into it. No personal attacks, no extremely derogatory comments, but harmless banter between regions and fun jabs to a person's gameplay should be fair. ("West Coast DI," "If it ain't "x" it's done," etc.) The home team has to nail their free-throw with a decent amount of quiet; the away team has to nail their free-throws with jeering, wavy balloon things behind the glass, and this guy
Some of you may have experienced or heard that I stare at you when I get grabs. Sometimes it causes panic and it gets the opponent thinking, "Am I... dead? Will up throw kill me?" and it can even force bad DI if I wanted to backthrow or downthrow instead.
We'll call these things interpersonal tactics and mindgames for now. These are the external factors influencing the way we play, the things that cause pressure and mistakes that other people can influence. It is interesting to see how much we've stopped seeing these types of interactions with each other recently. Controlling your emotions and controlling your opponent’s emotions are unnoticed strategies that need some awareness. Whether intentional or not, I've definitely been a victim of these types of interactions. The subtle pleas from people wanting to get out of pools, the friendly nature of your opponent before a match, the rage and frustration during or between matches, the negativity towards your stage-choices, character choices, and playstyle are all factors that may influence our matches whether you or the opponent meant to or not.
Obviously, these are the types of things that can't be banned, there aren't any rules against deception or being a general **** in any game, but these are issues that people need to be aware of and develop mental toughness towards in order continue playing the game you're used to playing. If you've seen Searching for Bobby Fisher, even in a game of chess, a simple statement like "Trick or treat" can cause all kinds of hesitation, anxiety, and fear in any move you make.
Intimidation, friendliness, emptiness, joy, depression, and excitement are all emotions that influence the way we play. When I play friendlies, I want to have a good time and I also want the person I'm playing to have a good time, too. Some advice I try to give some players is to treat tournament matches like a friendly, playing loose helps a lot. Other people might actually need different advice, like slowing down, take things in steps, step it up a notch. Just like in sports, some people play better angry, other play better calm. Try to understand how you feel when you're performing at your best, and do your best to replicate that feeling.
Worst-case scenario, you can't determine when you actually are playing your best, so the next best thing to do is to simply remain composed. You can be angry or depressed, but you can always regain your composure.
Mental toughness is a quality that I think is overlooked a lot in professional sports. How you respond to adversity, how you handle pressure, and remain consistent is something all great players and athletes have in common.
I'll probably post on this more later, but let me know what you guys think. :D
The metagame is the gameplay that involves decisions and actions from competitors based on the events happening in the game. We've all seen examples of the metagame at work. Players coming up with new solutions, new risks, and new punishes to gain the competitive edge. Getting hit by attacks used to be bad in some situations, but the current metagame has numerous advantages in recovery and punishes for getting hit.
Crouch Cancel rests, ledge teching back airs, CC grabs, and numerous other options and trades that may not have been considered in the past are now relevant in high level gameplay.
Mindgames and exploits are all a part of the metagame, but what about the game outside of the game?
I'm exploring some of the issues, ideas, and advantages of external gaming, or physical and psychological gaming.
Interpersonal Mindgames and Tactics
An easy example of external gaming would be listening to your opponent's shoulder clicks for ledge rolls. Instead of it becoming a mindgame, or an act of prediction, you now have a degree of consistency in quickly determining an opponent's options. The only inconsistency would be your spacing and timing. Then advancing the "metagame" of the external game would be to buffer your ledge recoveries with a ledge attack or simply recovering normally while mashing L or R to influence the opponents punish. Some people may respond subconsciously to the triggers even if they're not aware of the sound, too.
I remember a long time ago, I used to make noise whenever I wanted to influence a response from an opponent. A quick "AHH, BOOM, or a *gasp*" would force shields and airdodges and give me easy punishes. I've even found that many players would give away what they were planning by putting their body into their movements. When someone wanted to go for an offstage gimp or suicide attack, they would also attempt to lunge at me with their body; you could sense the act of aggression from your opponents.
This awareness creates new levels of skill in inhibition control. Calmly recognizing the attack when it happens and using your opponent's physical actions and movements to your advantage. There are even tales of players straight up looking at their opponent's controllers to see how they're going to DI their throws.
I want to know your guys' opinions on that. Do you think that looking at your opponent's controller is fair game? We have also seen the Mike Haze rule in Brawl, I've even done something similar to Wobbles in tournament before to get him to mess up an infinite. I originally got the idea from MvC players shaking the arcade box while they're getting infinited. There is definitely a line that shouldn't be crossed and the Mike Haze rule is probably a good line, but just how far should we allow the players playing to distract each other?
On the subject of fairness, there has also been quite a bit of disparity on the past on the "Noise" factor. I love getting hyped and I don't mind the hype when I'm playing, but some players prefer matches to have a chess or golf atmosphere and would prefer to have complete silence while they're playing and then maybe some cheering after the match is over.
These are videogames, this is trash talking on Xbox live and battle.net, we play this game for fun and concentration and focus through all distractions should be another factor in skill just like in the vast majority of popular games and sports like basketball, football, hockey, and soccer. I think crowd cheering is becoming more and more accepted as people are getting used to it, and as long as there is a limit to how unruly the crowd can be, I think it is healthy for the community and the game as whole. It makes the matches more fun and easier for everyone watching to get into it. No personal attacks, no extremely derogatory comments, but harmless banter between regions and fun jabs to a person's gameplay should be fair. ("West Coast DI," "If it ain't "x" it's done," etc.) The home team has to nail their free-throw with a decent amount of quiet; the away team has to nail their free-throws with jeering, wavy balloon things behind the glass, and this guy
Some of you may have experienced or heard that I stare at you when I get grabs. Sometimes it causes panic and it gets the opponent thinking, "Am I... dead? Will up throw kill me?" and it can even force bad DI if I wanted to backthrow or downthrow instead.
We'll call these things interpersonal tactics and mindgames for now. These are the external factors influencing the way we play, the things that cause pressure and mistakes that other people can influence. It is interesting to see how much we've stopped seeing these types of interactions with each other recently. Controlling your emotions and controlling your opponent’s emotions are unnoticed strategies that need some awareness. Whether intentional or not, I've definitely been a victim of these types of interactions. The subtle pleas from people wanting to get out of pools, the friendly nature of your opponent before a match, the rage and frustration during or between matches, the negativity towards your stage-choices, character choices, and playstyle are all factors that may influence our matches whether you or the opponent meant to or not.
Obviously, these are the types of things that can't be banned, there aren't any rules against deception or being a general **** in any game, but these are issues that people need to be aware of and develop mental toughness towards in order continue playing the game you're used to playing. If you've seen Searching for Bobby Fisher, even in a game of chess, a simple statement like "Trick or treat" can cause all kinds of hesitation, anxiety, and fear in any move you make.
Intimidation, friendliness, emptiness, joy, depression, and excitement are all emotions that influence the way we play. When I play friendlies, I want to have a good time and I also want the person I'm playing to have a good time, too. Some advice I try to give some players is to treat tournament matches like a friendly, playing loose helps a lot. Other people might actually need different advice, like slowing down, take things in steps, step it up a notch. Just like in sports, some people play better angry, other play better calm. Try to understand how you feel when you're performing at your best, and do your best to replicate that feeling.
Worst-case scenario, you can't determine when you actually are playing your best, so the next best thing to do is to simply remain composed. You can be angry or depressed, but you can always regain your composure.
Mental toughness is a quality that I think is overlooked a lot in professional sports. How you respond to adversity, how you handle pressure, and remain consistent is something all great players and athletes have in common.
I'll probably post on this more later, but let me know what you guys think. :D
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
i'm an a**hole I was movement camping kirby and spend a minute where I hit him twice told him i'd just keep camping all day long and then I started going HHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII like kirby for a minute. I think that may have been the worse match in all of smash pichu movement camping kirby tellung about how impossible it was and taunting him. i'm sorry bunbun I don't even know why I started taunting I'm the biggest p**** ever.
he quickly quit I don't blame him and He should've punched me in the face.
he quickly quit I don't blame him and He should've punched me in the face.
AXE 09
Smash Master
This is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately. Many things that my opponents do physically can really effect the way I play too.
I feel like a good example of this is the differences between fighting Silly Kyle and fighting GamerGuitarist7.
While fighting Silly Kyle, he tends to put major physical actions behind all of his moves. For instance, whenever he wants to Dsmash with Peach, you can hear him loudly mashing down on his C-stick while tensing up his body and making slight movements. I find myself subconsciously listening to the buttons he presses on his controller and reacting to what I think he is pressing. Whenever he wants to roll, you can hear him tapping on his control stick very loudly. If he wants to Dsmash right after the roll, he will start to make his usual physical movements for the Dsmash as he's rolling.
This seems to make him very predictable and easy to read, however it also works to his advantage sometimes. In situations where I'd normally approach, I might not approach him because I see his physical movements with the side of my eye and it'll intimidate me and make me not want to get hit by anything. Basically it seems like Silly Kyle is predictable because of his movements, but also intimidating. So I might not attack him when I probably should.
GG7 is totally the opposite. When he plays, he is very calm and pretty much doesn't do any physical movements. Also, his controller seems to be very silent. I haven't fought many people who play like that, so it's a very weird experience. One thing that I found so strange was that I was never able to read his rolls. He likes to roll a lot when he's under pressure, but for some reason I could never read them when I would normally be able to read anyone else's. It turns out that he buffer rolls. So when he wants to roll, he just holds shield and holds the C-stick either left or right. He makes it so that his controller barely makes any noise at all, and he doesn't make any physical movements when he wants to roll. I guess since I don't hear any tapping of the control stick and don't see him lean slightly or anything, it makes me think that he's trying to take the pressure and attack out of his shield. I'm usually wrong.
Those are just small examples though. There's many things outside of the game that make me play different, specifically what I hear/see my opponent do.
I feel like a good example of this is the differences between fighting Silly Kyle and fighting GamerGuitarist7.
While fighting Silly Kyle, he tends to put major physical actions behind all of his moves. For instance, whenever he wants to Dsmash with Peach, you can hear him loudly mashing down on his C-stick while tensing up his body and making slight movements. I find myself subconsciously listening to the buttons he presses on his controller and reacting to what I think he is pressing. Whenever he wants to roll, you can hear him tapping on his control stick very loudly. If he wants to Dsmash right after the roll, he will start to make his usual physical movements for the Dsmash as he's rolling.
This seems to make him very predictable and easy to read, however it also works to his advantage sometimes. In situations where I'd normally approach, I might not approach him because I see his physical movements with the side of my eye and it'll intimidate me and make me not want to get hit by anything. Basically it seems like Silly Kyle is predictable because of his movements, but also intimidating. So I might not attack him when I probably should.
GG7 is totally the opposite. When he plays, he is very calm and pretty much doesn't do any physical movements. Also, his controller seems to be very silent. I haven't fought many people who play like that, so it's a very weird experience. One thing that I found so strange was that I was never able to read his rolls. He likes to roll a lot when he's under pressure, but for some reason I could never read them when I would normally be able to read anyone else's. It turns out that he buffer rolls. So when he wants to roll, he just holds shield and holds the C-stick either left or right. He makes it so that his controller barely makes any noise at all, and he doesn't make any physical movements when he wants to roll. I guess since I don't hear any tapping of the control stick and don't see him lean slightly or anything, it makes me think that he's trying to take the pressure and attack out of his shield. I'm usually wrong.
Those are just small examples though. There's many things outside of the game that make me play different, specifically what I hear/see my opponent do.
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
taj for president
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
You forgot to mention my Mario Kart Wii syndrome!
Then again, that doesn't take place until you're pretty much dead already
jetfour
Smash Journeyman
Golf audience would kill competitive smash. This game is exciting, it deserves a loud crowd. I would only hate it if the crowd got too loud for me to hear in game noises such as second jumps. (TWO! TSUH! WARSGDLFSIDF[Peach])
I love IRL mindgames. I think looking at controllers is fine. There are counters. You can fake movements. You can fake noises. If your opponents listens and waits for A-button mashing to shieldgrab your get up attack, you can just mash X (which does nothing) and roll away.
An "interpersonal tactic" that should never be allowed is stank. Take a ****ing shower. Hold your ****ing gas. Stinky people distract me. Odor tolerance shouldn't be a part of the game.
I love IRL mindgames. I think looking at controllers is fine. There are counters. You can fake movements. You can fake noises. If your opponents listens and waits for A-button mashing to shieldgrab your get up attack, you can just mash X (which does nothing) and roll away.
An "interpersonal tactic" that should never be allowed is stank. Take a ****ing shower. Hold your ****ing gas. Stinky people distract me. Odor tolerance shouldn't be a part of the game.
AXE 09
Smash Master
If the person I'm smashing with smells bad, it distracts me so much o.O
I agree Jet4. People need to stay clean lol. It's freakin distracting during matches.
I agree Jet4. People need to stay clean lol. It's freakin distracting during matches.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
Lol Axe, I loved that little bit about me.
I really get into the game sometimes... like I feel like I become one with Peach and it's my sole mission to destroy my opponent and survive haha.
The movement I do when I downsmash and other things is something I recently picked up. I think it's interesting that it can be intimidating. You also made a great point about how it could make me predictable, but at the same time I can use that to my advantage by making you think I'm going to do something and then juke you and do something else!!
There have been times where I tried to use IRL mindgames, like yelling "BOOM!!" when I get bob-omb.
Hahahaha, stinky smashers are nasty!! I apologize if there are times I reek like Mary Jane!!! She is just so helpful for me in smash! lol idk why...
I really get into the game sometimes... like I feel like I become one with Peach and it's my sole mission to destroy my opponent and survive haha.
The movement I do when I downsmash and other things is something I recently picked up. I think it's interesting that it can be intimidating. You also made a great point about how it could make me predictable, but at the same time I can use that to my advantage by making you think I'm going to do something and then juke you and do something else!!
There have been times where I tried to use IRL mindgames, like yelling "BOOM!!" when I get bob-omb.
Hahahaha, stinky smashers are nasty!! I apologize if there are times I reek like Mary Jane!!! She is just so helpful for me in smash! lol idk why...
AXE 09
Smash Master
Hahaha Kyle, you never smell bad I don't think lol. But yes, I know what you mean by those IRL mindgames just like Taj said in his previous post.
One time Taj tricked me so badly with an IRL mindgame. He was playing M2 and he was laying on the floor after a missed tech as I was standing next to him. I was ready to react to whatever he was going to do (roll, getup-attack, stand up). I heard him flick the control stick, and I instantly had the reaction to dash dance to chase whichever way he was about to roll, but he did a getup attack instead and it owned me so hard. It turns out that he just flicked the control stick downwards, which did nothing.
I think that I would get owned so hard against opponents who would do things like this more often lol.
One time Taj tricked me so badly with an IRL mindgame. He was playing M2 and he was laying on the floor after a missed tech as I was standing next to him. I was ready to react to whatever he was going to do (roll, getup-attack, stand up). I heard him flick the control stick, and I instantly had the reaction to dash dance to chase whichever way he was about to roll, but he did a getup attack instead and it owned me so hard. It turns out that he just flicked the control stick downwards, which did nothing.
I think that I would get owned so hard against opponents who would do things like this more often lol.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
i think i'm very quiet when i play
edit: except during combos :D mash that up stick baby
edit: except during combos :D mash that up stick baby
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Sooo much **** coming from this thread lol.
first could somebody explain the mikeHaze thing? I dont think I have heard of it.
I have mixed feelings on external factors affecting the game. I have had some negative atmospheres really interfere with my ability to concentrate and I have seen a pretty heated match go 1 way because of external factors.
I try to always respect ppls preferences when playing. I dont like to do things intentionally to bring them down. I want to play somebody at their best and when I win I want to win because I played better not because they were distracted. I also hate losing knowing I was unable to play my best.
-I completely agree, smelly *****s have no rights and need to stay home/forfeit/be forced to use wavebirds or wear tree air fresheners.
-Crowd is a neutral factor. You shouldnt really be trying to regulate crowd banter as a player. REason being... some players thrive on the hype some lose focus. Its part of the tournament venue and cant really be controlled. But I do feel that the crowd has limits and should be respectful. Its pretty biased but I dont particularly like when a crowd is completely dogging 1 dude. Mainly when its a situation between a good but unknown player vs a widely known pro. Its a ***** move lol but I kinda like to give that unknown dude their best chances of beating the titan b4 them. I mean there are tens of twenties of arguments that go against this one and are better but thats just kinda what I like to see. No real reason or support behind it.
-I love trash talk between players in a hype set especially when its close. That just means each player is putting their energy into the match and its amazing to watch and be apart of as long as its in the spirit of competition. Good clean dirty fun lol. This crosses the line imo when the trash talk is 1 sided and is having a negative affect on other players game. Can you ban it? NO. but out of respect I would be quiet if it came down to them playing worse because of external factors. I just think the loud obnoxious dude can be too much sometimes.
Things I think are completely warranted no matter what:
you are EXPECTED to use your awareness of your opponent at all times to pull a win off. wobbles posted something in his true skill thread something about you ultimately play against the person sitting across from you. that in itself gives legitimacy to alot of external factors.
-When you can do things like ultra camp or be super aggressive and then just stop to irritate or force a reaction from your opponent then you should. If you can throw them off their game through your game play then you have a very powerful adv and you should utilize it to the fullest.
-Physical cues are there and there is a mental game behind it. Its undeniable. When you get a grab on a player and are pummeling alot ppl start mashing out. I hear that sound and then throw hoping that they had poor DI. Thats basic **** tho. Ive also had ppl mashing and I just kept pumelling and just grabbed them again in their frenzy of random inputs. On the defensive side. G14 classified. tell no one! I often will sit and get pummeled for a grab. and then make as much noise with the right half of my controller as possible. I never let up my throw DI and they throw me as soon as they "hear me mashing". That benefits me doubly because I do actually get inputs for mashing out, and they react to that sound and throw me.
-I think its pretty funny about staring ppl down when you get a grab because Ive also done that. and no doubt its just as much of a mind game as downthrowing when you are just outside of kill range and going for the fair(because the best DI for upthrow is the worst DI for down).
-Ive tried this and I dont really know to what extend it works lol but Ive had some lulzy success with it. In a situation where Im on the ground or hanging on the edge. My opponent had been able to predict what I was going to do. so I just started mashing a random button. I didnt know what I was going to do and neither did they lol. I dont really recommend but its kinda funny.
-There is nothing wrong with looking at your opponents controller or watching their screen in goldeneye. If they have any sort of body movement or controller sounds such as the ones axe pointed out you can often subconsciously pick them up. So why not study them consciously? Its a mental game, You should be aware of the signs you give off and the ones of your opponent. Use them to your Adv because your opp is trying to use them to your disadv. Another example is the one that taj gave about making a noise. If you do that when you attack you can condition your opponent to react to that. So if you make the noise but dont attack. LOL profit!
Two short stories that relate to external factors a bit:
1. *Disclaimer-nobody feel bad. Its not an attack on anyone just an even that happened* So it was probably like tourneyplay 4. A tournament series in WA which you may or may not have heard of. So my ***** Toph is playing my ***** Rohins. Fox vs samus... ****! the match starts off pretty fun. toph is **** talking. Rohins usa ***** *** *****. Samus is ****ing trash. Im not bout to lose to a women. ***** has a ******. Ragey Rick Rohins aint havin that ****. So my ***** is like **** you toph, ill whoop that ***. Get some. Say somethin else. You just mad cuz you dont have the control over women like I do. GEt ***** u mothafukkin *****!I dont think any of that was actually said lol This continued pretty heavily for the first game. The little gathering around the tv was hella into it. MAd Hype. PR spots were on the line and both players were trying to get that W. Toph takes the first game just barely. 2nd round rohins steps it up and takes it. Final battle! WTF Rainbow cruise fox vs samus OH NOoooo! After the first stock **** wasnt a game no more. rohins started trying to concentrate. **** got serious. 10 ppl around crackin jokes and bein hyped. Toph kept chippin away damage.Every time hed get a punish he would throw out some trash talk. You could tell the rage was starting to build up. rohins started making mistakes. He yells "shut the **** up!!!!" no doubt everyone heard that.....except toph. Later we find toph didnt actually hear him
. rohins was struggling to concentrate on the match at this point and it was downhill from here. He put up a good fight but in the end toph was victorious. It looked like the most obnoxious thing in the world. One person was trying to concentrate and the other was using external factors to the extreme and making that very difficult. again, I say toph didnt actually hear rohins because he was mad focused on the match himself and Im pretty sure he would have stopped had he known. But because of watching how that match went down, I am a little reserved when it comes to trash talking when its one sided.
2. Basically the 2nd story im gonna just paraphrase. Im ****ing tired and its 3 am and I think Im bout to practice tech skill? FML but I gotta improve lol.
Long story short, Ive played sooo much worse than I should have for multiple reasons. I remember back in the day when I really really wanted to try as hard as I could in every set, every game, every stock, every opportunity to get better. somewhere along the line I lost sight of that. I started relying on easy shield grabs and could keep matches close but the outcome didnt matter as much. I started getting cocky for no reason and I began ****ing around and it put me into a slum of habitual sandbagging and made it really hard to focus. That led to me being self conscience about my level of skill as a smasher. I became more worried about ppl thinking I was good or that I was tight(flashy) rather than winning, or just playing to win or even to get better. The longer this went on the harder I tried to impress ppl. I practiced tech skill relentlessly, but for the wrong reasons. I wanted ppl to recognized my efforts/skill but no longer was I willing to put in the work. Internally, I wasnt focused when I smashed. I didnt approach matches with a clear head or goals of winning. I just wanted to be tight/good lol. I would be thinking about so many other things that had nothing to do with what my opponent was doing, how I was getting punished, and where i could punish. I would always semi john about not being warmed up yet even after playing for hours. There was some truth to that for I does often take me hours to truly get my hands to warm up but most importantly I wasnt mentally prepared to play.
External factors amplified these thoughts/feelings. I let things such as being called out for a mm get to my head. Instead of that person just wanting a mm it became this person thinks I suck and just wants to try to win a dollar. While smashing I joke around with my friends alot. But most of the time its hard to focus while cracking excessive jokes. I had to learn to stop caring what ppl think, who is better, whats tight and untight, and focus more on just playing vs my opponent. I have been trying to play more "composed" as taj put it and not allowing external factors throw me off my game as much.
Its hard to really say how far you should take your external advantage when playing against somebody. Im torn between telling ppl to man up and get over it, or being solely about internal game methods. I will say that you should always respect your opponent unless they have given you a really good reason not to.
Question: there are alot so any of them that you choose to answer would suffice.
Posting this kinda got me thinking about road to improvement. Melee is such a detailed complex, simple, ****, fun, **** *** game. For most competitive players tho, I think the goal is the same. there might be smaller goals that are along the way, but I think the goal of every serious smasher is to improve. Im skipping past the newbie part because obviously at this point the biggest barrier is tech skill and getting acquainted with the game itself.
I know we have talked about wallz and barriers b4 and ppl have touched on breaking them down.you can become more technical, but what if it cant be applied. You can be less predicatable, but what if you still get punished. Is improvment only about winning. What does it really mean to improve? and are there universal ways to do it, to speed it up, short cuts(do they hurt in the long run), or is improvement abstract and different for every player.
Since there are many aspects to improve in, are there ways of knowing which ones will be more beneficial to your game?
first could somebody explain the mikeHaze thing? I dont think I have heard of it.
I have mixed feelings on external factors affecting the game. I have had some negative atmospheres really interfere with my ability to concentrate and I have seen a pretty heated match go 1 way because of external factors.
I try to always respect ppls preferences when playing. I dont like to do things intentionally to bring them down. I want to play somebody at their best and when I win I want to win because I played better not because they were distracted. I also hate losing knowing I was unable to play my best.
-I completely agree, smelly *****s have no rights and need to stay home/forfeit/be forced to use wavebirds or wear tree air fresheners.
-Crowd is a neutral factor. You shouldnt really be trying to regulate crowd banter as a player. REason being... some players thrive on the hype some lose focus. Its part of the tournament venue and cant really be controlled. But I do feel that the crowd has limits and should be respectful. Its pretty biased but I dont particularly like when a crowd is completely dogging 1 dude. Mainly when its a situation between a good but unknown player vs a widely known pro. Its a ***** move lol but I kinda like to give that unknown dude their best chances of beating the titan b4 them. I mean there are tens of twenties of arguments that go against this one and are better but thats just kinda what I like to see. No real reason or support behind it.
-I love trash talk between players in a hype set especially when its close. That just means each player is putting their energy into the match and its amazing to watch and be apart of as long as its in the spirit of competition. Good clean dirty fun lol. This crosses the line imo when the trash talk is 1 sided and is having a negative affect on other players game. Can you ban it? NO. but out of respect I would be quiet if it came down to them playing worse because of external factors. I just think the loud obnoxious dude can be too much sometimes.
Things I think are completely warranted no matter what:
you are EXPECTED to use your awareness of your opponent at all times to pull a win off. wobbles posted something in his true skill thread something about you ultimately play against the person sitting across from you. that in itself gives legitimacy to alot of external factors.
-When you can do things like ultra camp or be super aggressive and then just stop to irritate or force a reaction from your opponent then you should. If you can throw them off their game through your game play then you have a very powerful adv and you should utilize it to the fullest.
-Physical cues are there and there is a mental game behind it. Its undeniable. When you get a grab on a player and are pummeling alot ppl start mashing out. I hear that sound and then throw hoping that they had poor DI. Thats basic **** tho. Ive also had ppl mashing and I just kept pumelling and just grabbed them again in their frenzy of random inputs. On the defensive side. G14 classified. tell no one! I often will sit and get pummeled for a grab. and then make as much noise with the right half of my controller as possible. I never let up my throw DI and they throw me as soon as they "hear me mashing". That benefits me doubly because I do actually get inputs for mashing out, and they react to that sound and throw me.
-I think its pretty funny about staring ppl down when you get a grab because Ive also done that. and no doubt its just as much of a mind game as downthrowing when you are just outside of kill range and going for the fair(because the best DI for upthrow is the worst DI for down).
-Ive tried this and I dont really know to what extend it works lol but Ive had some lulzy success with it. In a situation where Im on the ground or hanging on the edge. My opponent had been able to predict what I was going to do. so I just started mashing a random button. I didnt know what I was going to do and neither did they lol. I dont really recommend but its kinda funny.
-There is nothing wrong with looking at your opponents controller or watching their screen in goldeneye. If they have any sort of body movement or controller sounds such as the ones axe pointed out you can often subconsciously pick them up. So why not study them consciously? Its a mental game, You should be aware of the signs you give off and the ones of your opponent. Use them to your Adv because your opp is trying to use them to your disadv. Another example is the one that taj gave about making a noise. If you do that when you attack you can condition your opponent to react to that. So if you make the noise but dont attack. LOL profit!
Two short stories that relate to external factors a bit:
1. *Disclaimer-nobody feel bad. Its not an attack on anyone just an even that happened* So it was probably like tourneyplay 4. A tournament series in WA which you may or may not have heard of. So my ***** Toph is playing my ***** Rohins. Fox vs samus... ****! the match starts off pretty fun. toph is **** talking. Rohins usa ***** *** *****. Samus is ****ing trash. Im not bout to lose to a women. ***** has a ******. Ragey Rick Rohins aint havin that ****. So my ***** is like **** you toph, ill whoop that ***. Get some. Say somethin else. You just mad cuz you dont have the control over women like I do. GEt ***** u mothafukkin *****!I dont think any of that was actually said lol This continued pretty heavily for the first game. The little gathering around the tv was hella into it. MAd Hype. PR spots were on the line and both players were trying to get that W. Toph takes the first game just barely. 2nd round rohins steps it up and takes it. Final battle! WTF Rainbow cruise fox vs samus OH NOoooo! After the first stock **** wasnt a game no more. rohins started trying to concentrate. **** got serious. 10 ppl around crackin jokes and bein hyped. Toph kept chippin away damage.Every time hed get a punish he would throw out some trash talk. You could tell the rage was starting to build up. rohins started making mistakes. He yells "shut the **** up!!!!" no doubt everyone heard that.....except toph. Later we find toph didnt actually hear him
. rohins was struggling to concentrate on the match at this point and it was downhill from here. He put up a good fight but in the end toph was victorious. It looked like the most obnoxious thing in the world. One person was trying to concentrate and the other was using external factors to the extreme and making that very difficult. again, I say toph didnt actually hear rohins because he was mad focused on the match himself and Im pretty sure he would have stopped had he known. But because of watching how that match went down, I am a little reserved when it comes to trash talking when its one sided.2. Basically the 2nd story im gonna just paraphrase. Im ****ing tired and its 3 am and I think Im bout to practice tech skill? FML but I gotta improve lol.
Long story short, Ive played sooo much worse than I should have for multiple reasons. I remember back in the day when I really really wanted to try as hard as I could in every set, every game, every stock, every opportunity to get better. somewhere along the line I lost sight of that. I started relying on easy shield grabs and could keep matches close but the outcome didnt matter as much. I started getting cocky for no reason and I began ****ing around and it put me into a slum of habitual sandbagging and made it really hard to focus. That led to me being self conscience about my level of skill as a smasher. I became more worried about ppl thinking I was good or that I was tight(flashy) rather than winning, or just playing to win or even to get better. The longer this went on the harder I tried to impress ppl. I practiced tech skill relentlessly, but for the wrong reasons. I wanted ppl to recognized my efforts/skill but no longer was I willing to put in the work. Internally, I wasnt focused when I smashed. I didnt approach matches with a clear head or goals of winning. I just wanted to be tight/good lol. I would be thinking about so many other things that had nothing to do with what my opponent was doing, how I was getting punished, and where i could punish. I would always semi john about not being warmed up yet even after playing for hours. There was some truth to that for I does often take me hours to truly get my hands to warm up but most importantly I wasnt mentally prepared to play.
External factors amplified these thoughts/feelings. I let things such as being called out for a mm get to my head. Instead of that person just wanting a mm it became this person thinks I suck and just wants to try to win a dollar. While smashing I joke around with my friends alot. But most of the time its hard to focus while cracking excessive jokes. I had to learn to stop caring what ppl think, who is better, whats tight and untight, and focus more on just playing vs my opponent. I have been trying to play more "composed" as taj put it and not allowing external factors throw me off my game as much.
Its hard to really say how far you should take your external advantage when playing against somebody. Im torn between telling ppl to man up and get over it, or being solely about internal game methods. I will say that you should always respect your opponent unless they have given you a really good reason not to.
Question: there are alot so any of them that you choose to answer would suffice.
Posting this kinda got me thinking about road to improvement. Melee is such a detailed complex, simple, ****, fun, **** *** game. For most competitive players tho, I think the goal is the same. there might be smaller goals that are along the way, but I think the goal of every serious smasher is to improve. Im skipping past the newbie part because obviously at this point the biggest barrier is tech skill and getting acquainted with the game itself.
I know we have talked about wallz and barriers b4 and ppl have touched on breaking them down.you can become more technical, but what if it cant be applied. You can be less predicatable, but what if you still get punished. Is improvment only about winning. What does it really mean to improve? and are there universal ways to do it, to speed it up, short cuts(do they hurt in the long run), or is improvement abstract and different for every player.
Since there are many aspects to improve in, are there ways of knowing which ones will be more beneficial to your game?
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
I listen to peoples controllers to see how many times i can hit them before they try to get out of a grab.. If they start to shake out then i throw right away but if not i keep hitting A
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
I though 2 random dudes trash talking me while playing HaileyM in round 1 pools of all things at Apex2 was mad hilarious.
Round 1 pools
Serious business
Also I can't believe Taj didn't mention this dude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEXG0mZKcw
Round 1 pools
Serious business
Also I can't believe Taj didn't mention this dude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEXG0mZKcw
LoL, I wanted to link that guy too, but I couldn't remember where I saw it, thanks for the link! :D
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
And yea when the new york smash scene was really big and DA was active in Melee they went really far with distractions. Wes and his crew was known for trash talk and NY still does it till this day, just not as extreme as it used to be years ago. I've even seen someones chair get shaken back in like 06. They always talked trash and when one of their crewmates started losing they would call more people over to talk more trash and distract them but after a while you get used to it
Oh yeah,
@Kaostar- The Mike Haze rule is...
This is specifically a Brawl rule, and hasn't been in any Melee tournaments that I know of, but I think it is an unspoken rule at this point.
@Kaostar- The Mike Haze rule is...
I think the emphasis is on someone performing infinites or extended combos.
This is specifically a Brawl rule, and hasn't been in any Melee tournaments that I know of, but I think it is an unspoken rule at this point.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Talking nice about me messes me up more than it should. I don't know I can't understand people telling me i'm smart or good. like once someone asked why I wasn't playing pichu in teams and I said because feel terrible if we lose teams even in friendilies I take a lot of blame even if he SDed twice and i'm worlds better. so I only go top/high tiers during teams. but he said I was pretty good and I tryed to understand confused I lost a stock from it. sveet told me I was a fairly smart player after he beat me 2-1 I was mad confused and messed up a lot in my next match.
I don't know even when my brother says nice things about me playing I mess up. It's not really pressure always it's just confusion.
is any one esle messed with by confusion of nice things said.
I don't know even when my brother says nice things about me playing I mess up. It's not really pressure always it's just confusion.
is any one esle messed with by confusion of nice things said.
LordAizen
Smash Journeyman
I'm a complete noob at Melee(I don't even know how to Wavedash or L Cancel or even short hop yet lol) but I want to main Mewtwo for three reasons.
1.) Mewtwo is one of my favorite pokemon(in my top 10 definately, problably #6)
2.) I want to use him because I like to think and outmaneuver people
3.) If I can get really good with Mewtwo who's supposedly one of the worst characters then that means I'll be a good overall smash player
1.) Mewtwo is one of my favorite pokemon(in my top 10 definately, problably #6)
2.) I want to use him because I like to think and outmaneuver people
3.) If I can get really good with Mewtwo who's supposedly one of the worst characters then that means I'll be a good overall smash player
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Taj! This thread is full of win!! <3 <3 <3
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Kyle we should Peach ditto.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
I'm the master at Peach dittos. It's actually my favorite matchup!! We should totes do it!! <3
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yay!
=D
I love Peach dittos.
=D
I love Peach dittos.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
I have so much fun playing them, but everyone in AZ hates watching them lulz!!
=P
is da bess
=P
is da bess
Laijin
Smash Hero
HTML:
Your here too? ****it KK. You're everywhere
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I nearly vomited there.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
i liked kirbykaze more when he was a rake
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
you can't handle the rake.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
oh yeah, and for the record, I talked to gimpy about it (who was sitting right next to me in the aforementioned set with rohins):
gimpy didn't hear rohins tell me to shut up either
ALSO, it wasn't just me and rohins trash talking each other; gimpy was hyping it for both of us (gimpy kind of "started it" and me and rohins started playing along and **** talking each other lol. for the first 2 games all 3 of us were really loud and rowdy)
oh yeah and im not just saying this cuz i won a set one time because of it lol but, if youre pissed off you deserve to lose anyway (and you probably will, cuz lets face it, nobody plays good when pissed off) lol so i dont really give a **** if someone loses because they couldn't handle tournament hype haha. they were probably gonna lose anyway as soon as they started letting the atmosphere get to them
gimpy didn't hear rohins tell me to shut up either
ALSO, it wasn't just me and rohins trash talking each other; gimpy was hyping it for both of us (gimpy kind of "started it" and me and rohins started playing along and **** talking each other lol. for the first 2 games all 3 of us were really loud and rowdy)
oh yeah and im not just saying this cuz i won a set one time because of it lol but, if youre pissed off you deserve to lose anyway (and you probably will, cuz lets face it, nobody plays good when pissed off) lol so i dont really give a **** if someone loses because they couldn't handle tournament hype haha. they were probably gonna lose anyway as soon as they started letting the atmosphere get to them
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
just being clear, people to the left right and behind you and gimpy heard it. rohins yelled that ****. idk if you two *****s was in a sound pocket or something lol.
but I honestly believe you were too into the match and missed it. rohins could beat your *** and he got a bunch of that anger so I think you would have stopped.
and yes there was crowd talking ****.
but they ALL STOPPED. except you.
just facts, no judgement.
when you say it like you just did it SEEMS like it was on purpose. still, no judgement because you are correct in that it wasn't a problem until **** got close.
so idk my *****. I kinda would like to get rohins take on the situation. not who is right or wrong but just about the topic of external factors.
but I honestly believe you were too into the match and missed it. rohins could beat your *** and he got a bunch of that anger so I think you would have stopped.
and yes there was crowd talking ****.
but they ALL STOPPED. except you.
just facts, no judgement.
when you say it like you just did it SEEMS like it was on purpose. still, no judgement because you are correct in that it wasn't a problem until **** got close.
so idk my *****. I kinda would like to get rohins take on the situation. not who is right or wrong but just about the topic of external factors.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
lol ill send you a PM hold up. post gets hella long
but yea basically, it reminds me of something sleepyk was talking to me about yesterday:
sleepyk went to MLG Raleigh to hang out (even though there was no melee tournament) and watch brawl. apparently he was cheering for Lee Martin in losers finals vs. Felix, a diddy player from washington, and he said something along the lines of "Felix? More like FREElix" and Felix actually turned around, mid-match, and glared at him.
what can you do about something like this? nothing, lol! the crowd is part of the game! you can't just stop playing to let some dude you've never met change how you're thinking/feeling. anyway, felix lost that set...
but yea basically, it reminds me of something sleepyk was talking to me about yesterday:
sleepyk went to MLG Raleigh to hang out (even though there was no melee tournament) and watch brawl. apparently he was cheering for Lee Martin in losers finals vs. Felix, a diddy player from washington, and he said something along the lines of "Felix? More like FREElix" and Felix actually turned around, mid-match, and glared at him.
what can you do about something like this? nothing, lol! the crowd is part of the game! you can't just stop playing to let some dude you've never met change how you're thinking/feeling. anyway, felix lost that set...
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
yea, i feel you.
I read your message. I agee for the most part which is why didn't fault you for it. I thought it was alot worse at the time because of the storming out and chair tossing but after I thought about what happened I wasn't trippin.
I read your message. I agee for the most part which is why didn't fault you for it. I thought it was alot worse at the time because of the storming out and chair tossing but after I thought about what happened I wasn't trippin.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
word. tw0 4 lyfe
mm I do think though, that on the subject of the "mike haze rule" if it was like, entirely one person **** talking the other without shutting up (as in, if it didnt start with both people **** talking each other) then it would be a REALLY different story....
grounds for DQ/TO stepping in? IMO no. imo should still be up to the players to be good sports in the long run. but you could definitely make a case for it o_o
mm I do think though, that on the subject of the "mike haze rule" if it was like, entirely one person **** talking the other without shutting up (as in, if it didnt start with both people **** talking each other) then it would be a REALLY different story....
grounds for DQ/TO stepping in? IMO no. imo should still be up to the players to be good sports in the long run. but you could definitely make a case for it o_o
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
lol being in the tristate scene if you cant handle it just play music or something
Sorry I haven't been keeping up with these, but I changed my mind a lot and deleted my posts because I felt they were pretty negative at the time and I was going to be misunderstood. I'm gonna keep posting for the people that actually care about my random thoughts, but Jesiah recently messaged me on AIM about a few things and I figure I may as well make time for multiple people to listen to my long winded thoughts and feelings on competitive gaming, Melee, and the bottom tier life.
So umm, if you want to listen to me talk about stuff sometime this week, I'll set some time aside and you can join me on Skype. I'll likely even record it and put it on my youtube channel in the future.
I mostly just want to get an idea of who would want to livechat with me on Skype, I'll pick a time and date in the next few days.
So umm, if you want to listen to me talk about stuff sometime this week, I'll set some time aside and you can join me on Skype. I'll likely even record it and put it on my youtube channel in the future.
I mostly just want to get an idea of who would want to livechat with me on Skype, I'll pick a time and date in the next few days.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Count me in. I'll be in there. =)