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Q&A Mewtwo Q&A Thread (Check Here)

meleebrawler

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I would rather face off against a strong Falcon rather than a strong Villager. Can you elaborate on what you think makes Villager a good MU for us? Confusion seems like it has too slow a start-up to effectively reflect Villager's business without clairvoyance (!) even though there is a lot of business which can technically be reflected...
He didn't outright say Villager is a good matchup, just better for Mewtwo than most high tiers. Confusion may not stop everything, but it definitely limits Villager's approaches with Lloid; there's only so much he can do with it on the offence thanks to his slow mobility.
 

NotAsian

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Someone on YouTube said mewtwo is the only char that can air dodge all of Bowser's up throw combos is that true? Is mewtwos air dodge different than everyone else's?

https://youtu.be/7UAeU9UjdWA
 
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Sonicninja115

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Someone on YouTube said mewtwo is the only char that can air dodge all of Bowser's up throw combos is that true? Is mewtwos air dodge different than everyone else's?

https://youtu.be/7UAeU9UjdWA
The only difference is that Mewtwo, like ness and lucas, maintains his momentum while airdodging. Other then that, he has a standard airdodge. In other words, disregard that misinformation.
 

Chiroz

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The only difference is that Mewtwo, like ness and lucas, maintains his momentum while airdodging. Other then that, he has a standard airdodge. In other words, disregard that misinformation.
? What do you mean? Everyone maintains their momentum while air dodging.



Someone on YouTube said mewtwo is the only char that can air dodge all of Bowser's up throw combos is that true? Is mewtwos air dodge different than everyone else's?

https://youtu.be/7UAeU9UjdWA
Mewtwo's air dodge starts frame 2. Almost 90% of the cast has a frame 3 or 4 air dodge. I believe (I am probably wrong) Palutena and Zelda also have a frame 2 air dodge and Bayonetta has a frame 1 Bat Within.

Still that video is wrong. There are specific %s that KooPah is guaranteed, it's just different %s due to weight.
 
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NotAsian

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Good info here thanks guys I noticed NESS and Lucas are super hard to combo or even catch air dodging to the ground
 

meleebrawler

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? What do you mean? Everyone maintains their momentum while air dodging.
Probably just refers to how Mewtwo can cover more vertical distance while airdodging due to his second jump, like Ness, Lucas and Yoshi.

Good info here thanks guys I noticed NESS and Lucas are super hard to combo or even catch air dodging to the ground
It's hard to catch them with dthrow/Confusion to smash due to their good air accel and floatiness. Ness also has some nasty combo breakers in nair and uair. Still, if they're airdodging excessively just get near them without attacking, bait said airdodge then go for the punish.
 

Sonicninja115

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? What do you mean? Everyone maintains their momentum while air dodging.





Mewtwo's air dodge starts frame 2. Almost 90% of the cast has a frame 3 or 4 air dodge. I believe (I am probably wrong) Palutena and Zelda also have a frame 2 air dodge and Bayonetta has a frame 1 Bat Within.

Still that video is wrong. There are specific %s that KooPah is guaranteed, it's just different %s due to weight.
Ness, Lucas and Mewtwo have a curious thing out of hitstun apparently. I have seen it said many times in so many different places, so if it is false, then it is one giant piece of misinformation. Apparently they carry momentum better? Some characters don't have that much momentum out of a throw or something.

Also, it could be because you can move while airdodging with Mewtwo, sorta. I will look into it. I have a lot of time to lab, so I am stockpiling a rather large amount of videos to upload and edit.
 

Chiroz

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Ness, Lucas and Mewtwo have a curious thing out of hitstun apparently. I have seen it said many times in so many different places, so if it is false, then it is one giant piece of misinformation. Apparently they carry momentum better? Some characters don't have that much momentum out of a throw or something.

Also, it could be because you can move while airdodging with Mewtwo, sorta. I will look into it. I have a lot of time to lab, so I am stockpiling a rather large amount of videos to upload and edit.

Some throws are weight dependent, having different results depending on what your weight is, although Mewtwo and Lucas/Ness have very different weight values.

Aside from this I don't know what you might ve referring to, could you give me an example of an specific throw? Maybe I could check what's going on.



As for Air Dodge, everyone retains momentum and can also shift their momentum (drift) while air dodging.

I think you are just being tricked by the fact that almost every other char rises incredibly fast so their horizontal shift is smaller because they last a shorter amount of time reaching their peak and starting to fall. Mewtwo, Lucas and Ness all have very slow double jumps which lead to you being able to shift your position a great amount before reaching the peak.

Basically if a char jumped and lasted half a second he would only move 1/4th of a char that lasted 2 seconds jumping (assuming same aerial speed).
 
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Sonicninja115

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Some throws are weight dependent, having different results depending on what your weight is, although Mewtwo and Lucas/Ness have very different weight values.

Aside from this I don't know what you might ve referring to, could you give me an example of an specific throw? Maybe I could check what's going on.



As for Air Dodge, everyone retains momentum and can also shift their momentum (drift) while air dodging.

I think you are just being tricked by the fact that almost every other char rises incredibly fast so their horizontal shift is smaller because they last a shorter amount of time reaching their peak and starting to fall. Mewtwo, Lucas and Ness all have very slow double jumps which lead to you being able to shift your position a great amount before reaching the peak.

Basically if a char jumped and lasted half a second he would only move 1/4th of a char that lasted 2 seconds jumping (assuming same aerial speed).
I haven't noticed much with the airdodge, thing. And it isn't only on weight dependent throws. I will ask in the M&T thread if these characters have better airdodge momentum or something. Or if it is simply a DJ Airdodge that lets them get out.

Not all characters can airdodge right after they jump right? So DJ airdodge could be what they are referring to.

Also, I kno with some throws that, if you airdodge out, you have incredibly low momentum. Shieks Dthrow for example. Dthrow/Fthrow-Usmash only works if they airdodge, and when they airdodge, they practically stop. I will look into it in half an hour, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was misinformation to some extent.
 

Chiroz

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I haven't noticed much with the airdodge, thing. And it isn't only on weight dependent throws. I will ask in the M&T thread if these characters have better airdodge momentum or something. Or if it is simply a DJ Airdodge that lets them get out.

Not all characters can airdodge right after they jump right? So DJ airdodge could be what they are referring to.

Also, I kno with some throws that, if you airdodge out, you have incredibly low momentum. Shieks Dthrow for example. Dthrow/Fthrow-Usmash only works if they airdodge, and when they airdodge, they practically stop. I will look into it in half an hour, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was misinformation to some extent.


All chars can air dodge when they jump and perform DJ air dodge to get out of combos.

Mewtwo has one of the worst air accelerations so he actually can't go very far unless you jump of out the move or you are high enough to accelerate to a good amount of speed.

Ness and Lucas on the other hand have incredibly good acceleration and they are able to just drift out of simple setups like air dodge read -> smash.



Let me know if you find anything.
 

Sonicninja115

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One person, highly respected, said that the trio had control over their momentum. Someone else, also highly respected, said it had to do with DJ. They didn't say the other was wrong. But didn't confirm either.
 

[n]ICE

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Hiiiiii ~
I wanted to know if there's a tread that highlight all the possible uses of disable depending of the match-ups ?

Like, moves that disables would stop, that disable can whiff punish , that disable can shield punish, outrange and such

Because I feel like this move potentiel isn't in raw utilisation but in good match-up knownledge
 

KirbyFan20

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What is Kirby's best tool for catching a roll-spamming Mewtwo?

I actually don't have that much trouble with predicting rolls against any other character, but Mewtwo for some reason gives me a lot of trouble when they start spamming rolls a lot. Particularly when I use Kirby, because of his short reach. Though I did notice that I just have trouble catching Mewtwo's rolls in general.

I main Kirby, and secondary Toon Link and Corrin.
 

meleebrawler

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What is Kirby's best tool for catching a roll-spamming Mewtwo?

I actually don't have that much trouble with predicting rolls against any other character, but Mewtwo for some reason gives me a lot of trouble when they start spamming rolls a lot. Particularly when I use Kirby, because of his short reach. Though I did notice that I just have trouble catching Mewtwo's rolls in general.

I main Kirby, and secondary Toon Link and Corrin.
If he rolls towards you as you near, utilt or dsmash. Otherwise if they're the typical "charge n' roll away" type just walk forward and either shield or jab depending on what they tend to follow it with.
 

meleebrawler

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What are some true followups out of Confusion?
Absolutely zip. You may get an fsmash or dsmash if they're slow to react and their character has poor air mobility or fast falling, disable if they reflexively airdodge, a shieldgrab if they attack, a tech chase if they tech or stage control if they jump. But nothing that works in every circumstance.

Edit: Actually, now I'm curious... can Sheik still fair us immediately out of Confusion?
 
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Megamang

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Hey guys, I'm new here. Just started messing around with Mewtwo, considering adding him to main as a MegaMewtwo team.


Does mewtwo have any good 2-frame ledgesnap punishing moves? D-smash looks like it would be great, but I'm not having great success. Same thing with d-tilt. I was considering that down-tilted f-tilt might be great, but I don't find myself trying it much because I either go off to try and kill them, take a spot for stage control advantage or/and charge a shadow ball.

I love shadow ball. Anyone have some good setups? I like dtilt -> fair -> shadowball if they drift away to land. Fthrow also sets them up decently if they're at mid %s. Running away -> Breverse Shadow ball is nice when you're being chased, especially against characters really hard to punish such as Cloud and Marth. Am I missing any super good shadow ball setups or techs? I watched some Mew^2, he seemed to not actually use the full charged shadow ball frequently, but I haven't watched a lot yet
 

Laken64

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Hey guys, I'm new here. Just started messing around with Mewtwo, considering adding him to main as a MegaMewtwo team.


Does mewtwo have any good 2-frame ledgesnap punishing moves? D-smash looks like it would be great, but I'm not having great success. Same thing with d-tilt. I was considering that down-tilted f-tilt might be great, but I don't find myself trying it much because I either go off to try and kill them, take a spot for stage control advantage or/and charge a shadow ball.

I love shadow ball. Anyone have some good setups? I like dtilt -> fair -> shadowball if they drift away to land. Fthrow also sets them up decently if they're at mid %s. Running away -> Breverse Shadow ball is nice when you're being chased, especially against characters really hard to punish such as Cloud and Marth. Am I missing any super good shadow ball setups or techs? I watched some Mew^2, he seemed to not actually use the full charged shadow ball frequently, but I haven't watched a lot yet
Another set up (or tech for this matter) that is critical to M2's set ups/gameplay is phasing. Basically it's using your air dodge from a short hop to either retreat, attack or both (someone please confirm if this is right) so a mix up you can do is air dodge back and throw FC Shadowball at your foe who's charging to punish, just don't be too predictable. Fair is also a good move with phasing forward.
 

Megamang

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SHAD, usable by the whole cast but with varying degrees of efficacy. Its actually one of the reasons I have picked up M2, its a great tech and I feel that it is underused across the cast (Airdodges almost universally have way better frame data than rolls, flexibility with movement, and floaty characters can utilize moves out of them! take that, rolls). All of M2's aerials have usage here, right? I like SHAD -> Fair a lot.
 
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Mr. B

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What are some true followups out of Confusion?
The best you can hope for is: slow reactions from them > jump > FAir. You might get it once, but a smart player will come back with their own FAir as I discovered last night.

Last night I played a totally sick Mewtwo with the profile name Richy. I wondered if it was @RichBrown ... All of my tricks worked precisely once, and he adapted harder and faster than the frickin borg. Its been awhile since I was schooled that badly. There was so much going on that I could barely analyse what he was doing that was so effective... He did however, demonstrate (brutally and efficiently) that quick reflexes have nothing to fear from Confusion followups. He turned all but the first one against me and made me regret every attempt after that one. So much FAir...
 

Sonicninja115

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Chiroz Chiroz and I tested this combo a couple of weeks ago, except we started it with Jab-FS-Disable.

His general consensus is that Nair-FS seems risky, and he said that Rich Brown disregarded the combo as setting it up is hard, you are almost never going to get a footstool with such strict requirements. This is definitely high level tech, so someday possibly, but this is rather meh right now.

Also, Disable-FS-Disable MIGHT work. I know the cooldown is rather crazy, so probably not.

8383d3 90 90 10 hundred 8383d3 90 90 10 hundred FS >DJ Disable.
 

Chiroz

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i'm aware i just can't perform it on any of the characters this guy is doing it on. i hypothesize he has some special DI or something. idk how he's doing it. try it yourself it wont work. and i think he's doing it in 1.1.5 but i could be wrong. tweets are recent.
Just DJ backwards into Disable. Even though you cancel the DJ immediately, Mewtwo still retains a small amount of momentum.

It can be done on about 90% of the cast, there's a few characters which are just impossible to get it on because Mewtwo always falls behind them.



As I had told Sonic, FS -> Disable is guaranteed but getting a grounded footstool on a non-shielding, non-attacking opponent without a setup is even harder than just landing a raw Disable. If we had a reliable setup it would be useful but as it stands right now it isn't exactly gamebreaking.

Remember that N-Air makes the opponent face away from you so I believe (although I have not tested) that in order to get N-Air -> FS -> Disable you are required to fall into your opponent and activate N-Air right as you touch the ground.

This is incredibly risky as you are basically landing right in front of your opponent with no hitbox too. I might be wrong and there might be other ways to get N-Air -> FS, I will try and lab it further this weekend, but from a theoretical stand up it seems to work sort of like Marth/Lucina/Roy's N-Air 1 only with a much more strict timing and point blank range (instead of a full sword range).



Keep in mind FS -> Disable has been known for a long time, and falling F-Air -> FS only works on sub 20% if the opponent is DIng up and away and at those %s you can get D-Tilt without FS anyways (although, to be honest I haven't retested this since patch 1.1.1, I mean we went from 1.7 to 2.05 run speed, maybe this can actually be a setup until a higher % now).

Basically these vines are very creative but aside from D-Tilt -> FS which I am unsure if it's guaranteed with good DI, there is nothing really groundbreaking. It's just really flashy.
 
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8383d3 90 90 10 hundred

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Just DJ backwards into Disable. Even though you cancel the DJ immediately, Mewtwo still retains a small amount of momentum.

As I had told Sonic, FS -> Disable is guaranteed but getting a grounded footstool on a non-shielding, non-attacking opponent without a setup is even harder than just landing a raw Disable
ok tried the dj backwards still no dice. tried diligently. immediate, fast and slow and in-between. can't get it.

second off, jump is frame one and grounded footstools are really easy to hit. i disagree that its hard. i'd hunch this is super relevant.

please watch this if you think grounded footstools are unfeasible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLFXOgPi6_N5Q1AR3Z9l549HBoZzpBAz0h&v=79Ofn1Gq7gQ
 
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Chiroz

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ok tried the dj backwards still no dice. tried diligently. immediate, fast and slow and in-between. can't get it.

second off, jump is frame one and grounded footstools are really easy to hit. i disagree that its hard. i'd hunch this is super relevant.

please watch this if you think grounded footstools are unfeasible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLFXOgPi6_N5Q1AR3Z9l549HBoZzpBAz0h&v=79Ofn1Gq7gQ

While jumping is frame one, I believe in order to Footstool you have to finish your jump animation, which means going through Jumpsquat. Mewtwo's Jumpsquat is 5 frames thus making Footstool a frame 6 option OoS.



Mewtwo's Short Hop also does not avoid most of the grabs in the game because of his ridiculously large frame.

Footstooling a dashing opponent won't work since he will end up behind you. How many times is an opponent close enough to you to Footstool, but is neither holding shield or attacking?

I would say the only time that happens is when an opponent whiffed an attack or hit your shield but even then it would require very bad spacing on his part, why is he so close to your body?



I mean you are welcome to try and show us how useful it is by implementing it into your game, but I honestly think the cases where this can be used are very far in between and will almost always consist of punishing bad spacing of a laggy move that you just shielded.




Edit: What character are you trying it on? For most chars you don't even need to DJ backwards you only have to DJ and that's it.

Just tap jump 3 times as fast as you can and Disable.


Also, what results are you getting? Is Mewtwo Disabling while moving upwards? Is Mewtwo Disabling and falling but the move isn't landing?
 
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Constadin

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I keep relying so much on (jab1)--->dtilt--->fair to maybe a second fair (soooo much) to the point of not getting really creative with my combos and stalling fair badly. Does anyone else can relate with this? Is it only me that find this pattern so satisfying and concern worthy at the same time? :p
 

Sonicninja115

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I keep relying so much on (jab1)--->dtilt--->fair to maybe a second fair (soooo much) to the point of not getting really creative with my combos and stalling fair badly. Does anyone else can relate with this? Is it only me that find this pattern so satisfying and concern worthy at the same time? :p
It is a very reliable combo, and something that is easy to get stuck in. It is important to learn more combos and implement them, but at the same time, pick the safest option to get the most damage.
 

Murlough

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Shouldn't try to fix what isn't broken. Besides unstaling isn't difficult by any means.
 

meleebrawler

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Shouldn't try to fix what isn't broken. Besides unstaling isn't difficult by any means.
People also seem to feel bad if most of their kills come from Shadow Ball for some reason, as if that's the sign of inferior Mewtwo play. It's not like we have true kill combos, just a lot of reliable moves to throw out for that purpose.

I can sort of understand the feeling that you're not using all of your tools to the fullest, but there are times when you really aren't going to use (or use them more than usual).
 
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Sonicninja115

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People also seem to feel bad if most of their kills come from Shadow Ball for some reason, as if that's the sign of inferior Mewtwo play. It's not like we have true kill combos, just a lot of reliable moves to throw out for that purpose.

I can sort of understand the feeling that you're not using all of your tools to the fullest, but there are times when you really aren't going to use (or use them more than usual).
We have true kill combos....
 

Gardios

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(Hi everyone, I've been lurking these forums for a pretty long time but it's my first post! I'm from France, so please don't be too rough if my English isn't perfect!)

I was very impressed by Abadango's play at this Pound 2016 tournament he won with Mewtwo, but his use of Shadow Ball really troubled me. Do you guys have an idea on why he never fully charge it? I can get why he prefers to harass with a lot of smallers SB, but it can also be a very powerful projectile; and even when he has plenty of time to charge it, like when he gets a stock on his opponent (even if it's a screen/star KO) he will just keep jumping around... He's a very skilled player, so I was pretty convinced that he has a good reason to do this, but I can't figure out what it is...
(I also wonder why he almost never tries to FF off of SH Nair, it allows way better combos than regular SH Nair, but I guess that's more of a consistency issue with the timing)
 

Smashifer

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(Hi everyone, I've been lurking these forums for a pretty long time but it's my first post! I'm from France, so please don't be too rough if my English isn't perfect!)

I was very impressed by Abadango's play at this Pound 2016 tournament he won with Mewtwo, but his use of Shadow Ball really troubled me. Do you guys have an idea on why he never fully charge it? I can get why he prefers to harass with a lot of smallers SB, but it can also be a very powerful projectile; and even when he has plenty of time to charge it, like when he gets a stock on his opponent (even if it's a screen/star KO) he will just keep jumping around... He's a very skilled player, so I was pretty convinced that he has a good reason to do this, but I can't figure out what it is...
(I also wonder why he almost never tries to FF off of SH Nair, it allows way better combos than regular SH Nair, but I guess that's more of a consistency issue with the timing)
Well, there could be a few reasons could be behind this

For one, it was vs. Mario, who has a much faster reflector than us, and you don't exactly want to seem too predictable when you have to suffer from the endlag of throwing the Shadow Ball combined with the startup of Confusion. Of course, this is still a problem with any other charge, but you won't be dying from a baby Shadow Ball, or you won't be dying as early if you send out a medium one.

Second, it could be because he was playing a more defensive game, and keeping the Mario out of his personal zone seemed to be his top priority.

Thirdly, and the most plausible motive, it allows him to create mindgames; he'd be able to b-reverse or wavebounce, basically just keep the opponent guessing.
 

Gardios

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Not only vs Mario, otherwise I would've understood why he wouldn't want to take the risk to die from a reflected SB (even if Mewtwo normally wins the tennis), but I also noted that on his sets against PewPewU or Void, he basically takes a stock (sometimes screen or star KO, so he had a lot of time) then just move around with his half-charged Shadow ball while waiting for his opponent to come back... I guessed that was to stay as unpredictable as possible, but I still thought that was a little weird... :/
 
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Sonicninja115

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Not only vs Mario, otherwise I would've understood why he wouldn't want to take the risk to die from a reflected SB (even if Mewtwo normally wins the tennis), but I also noted that on his sets against PewPewU or Void, he basically takes a stock (sometimes screen or star KO, so he had a lot of time) then just move around with his half-charged Shadow ball while waiting for his opponent to come back... I guessed that was to stay as unpredictable as possible, but I still thought that was a little weird... :/
We are actually discussing SB in the metagame thread, so hop over there! Also, Aba used them as a zoning tool. Often times mini SB's can be very useful, even true comboing into Grab at kill percents. He occasionally fully charged one during a stock break, but he seemed to be keeping it from showing on the hands as a mindgame thing.
 

Chiroz

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We are actually discussing SB in the metagame thread, so hop over there! Also, Aba used them as a zoning tool. Often times mini SB's can be very useful, even true comboing into Grab at kill percents. He occasionally fully charged one during a stock break, but he seemed to be keeping it from showing on the hands as a mindgame thing.
Not only is it a mindgame but remember that Mewtwo can actually throw Shadow Ball faster from a charge stance. As such you can bait out an air dodge and throw Shadow Ball right afterwards (frame 6, as fast as a jab or D-Tilt).

It's something I don't use enough anymore, although I did use it more back in the day. Should probably start getting that into my gameplay again.
 
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Gardios

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Oh yeah that's right, I didn't thought about that, it makes a little more sense now. I was really disturbed because I usually prefer to fully charge it everytime I can, but I'll try to start considering other options more seriously now. Thanks for the answers :)
 
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