Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Admiral Pit]

Apparently the F-tilt has 3 hitboxes (or at least when I was doing Stadium), so I would think it picks off shields or roll spammers if you can space it or anticipate such a move, but yea, a move not used much.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I cantfigure out how to use this character

but ill keep trying because dat sass

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

I honestly feel like Palutena is a character more suited for the Wii U version, she'll probably play a lot more conformably there. Though admittedly, I am playing on a regular 3ds (I was gonna upgrade to an XL, but then they had to announce the New 3ds). Palutena is certainly a character out of my comfort zone, but I really want to learn her.

Hey, if anyone wants to play some matches with me let me know.

I would be down for a couple of matches, perhaps I could learn a thing or two.

 

[Zwzchow]

I honestly feel like Palutena is a character more suited for the Wii U version, she'll probably play a lot more conformably there. Though admittedly, I am playing on a regular 3ds (I was gonna upgrade to an XL, but then they had to announce the New 3ds). Palutena is certainly a character out of my comfort zone, but I really want to learn her.

I would be down for a couple of matches, perhaps I could learn a thing or two.

This is Ninty's tactic make some characters feel like u need a real controller so you would buy the wii u version

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

This is Ninty's tactic make some characters feel like u need a real controller so you would buy the wii u version

It's all part of the master plan.

 

[Wasoodle]

I'm having so much fun with palutena! I don't know if it's been said yet but warp can be canceled at the edge just like Farores wind. I love her up smash too

 

[FloatingMew]

So, after a long and sad thought process about who my mains are now that I have the game, I had to rule out Palutena. I expected her to be my secondary, but without much options in her default moveset, tt is hard for me to use her effectively. I will still play her every now and again for fun. but I think i'll stick to Rosie and Robin for competitive stuff.

 

[Nabbitnator]

Her tilts seem best for edge guarding, chipping shields and blocking projectiles, space her tilts correctly to put you at a neutral position. She has lag just make sure you are wary of your spacing.

 

[Octillus]

I've had no trouble generally playing any other character except for Palutena and Rosalina. Rosalina is just obviously complex and I haven't really given her the time to learn her (probably won't til the Wii U release) but Palutena is messing with me.

Does she just have no priority whatsoever? I can't seem to time out more than a single hit. She feels like she's stuck in a tub of butter - I know I'm just doing something wrong. Any advice?

EDIT: I just want to emphasize I've far from mastered anyone except for DK, because I've always played DK and they just made him better. Played quite a bit of Pac-Man as well and he's great, but yeah of course I've tried out just a bit of everyone and I just can't get any sort of flow going with Palutena.

 

[Zef]

well i've gone from bowser to palu, i'll be putting in work with her on a stream tonight

 

[Wintropy]

I've had no trouble generally playing any other character except for Palutena and Rosalina. Rosalina is just obviously complex and I haven't really given her the time to learn her (probably won't til the Wii U release) but Palutena is messing with me.

Does she just have no priority whatsoever? I can't seem to time out more than a single hit. She feels like she's stuck in a tub of butter - I know I'm just doing something wrong. Any advice?

EDIT: I just want to emphasize I've far from mastered anyone except for DK, because I've always played DK and they just made him better. Played quite a bit of Pac-Man as well and he's great, but yeah of course I've tried out just a bit of everyone and I just can't get any sort of flow going with Palutena.

Play constantly. Play consistently. Play until you don't want to play any more and then play on anyway. Play through the madness and the futility until you reach the truth of why you play.

Don't rush into battle. For fools rush in where angels fear to tread and Palutena is not suited for immediate action. Let them come to you and always be prepared. The forces of light never start the fight, but they are there to retaliate when aggression begets chaos. Keep them at bay and, when their defenses are lowered and they begin to falter, then you strike back. Become a bastion of peace and tranquility until your inner calm is disrupted, then respond with divine judgement. The hands of the heavens are not swift and terse, but graceful and commanding, and only when you learn to respect and admire such a gentle, sublime touch will you be ready to play as Palutena.

 

[kmpyj]

@ Gadiel_VaStar and @ SegaNintendoUbisoft : My FC is 1032-1329-6718.




Also, I found this really good Palutena player. Nice little combo video he or she made there. I tip my hat to he or she.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX76WZrAiE0

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

@ Gadiel_VaStar and @ SegaNintendoUbisoft : My FC is 1032-1329-6718.

Ok, registered you, I'll play tomorrow.

 

[Glaciacott]

As promised long ago, organized the match-up thread to get things rolling.

Feel free to vote here to vote on the characters you want to discuss first!
http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5431f97ee4b09149347e249a

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

I've had no trouble generally playing any other character except for Palutena and Rosalina. Rosalina is just obviously complex and I haven't really given her the time to learn her (probably won't til the Wii U release) but Palutena is messing with me.

Does she just have no priority whatsoever? I can't seem to time out more than a single hit. She feels like she's stuck in a tub of butter - I know I'm just doing something wrong. Any advice?

EDIT: I just want to emphasize I've far from mastered anyone except for DK, because I've always played DK and they just made him better. Played quite a bit of Pac-Man as well and he's great, but yeah of course I've tried out just a bit of everyone and I just can't get any sort of flow going with Palutena.

Spent a bunch of time practicing Palutena and playing some players on and off @ KTAR this weekend, as well as some doubles matches with NinjaLink. You're pretty much right. I'm still trying to play the character to learn her but this weekend has given me quite a bit to think about.

What it boils down to is that the character really struggles against characters who are currently popular and who probably will remain so for some time (Sheik, Greninja, Fox, Mac, Sonic, Diddy). She simply lacks a lot of tools to deal with characters who pressure her and it's pretty hard to keep people honest once they realize how freely they can pressure you. I feel like if you can get over this hurdle, you can probably have some degree of success. My experiences this weekend basically though have kind of made me contemplate if I want to just make her a side project and focus on someone else for tournaments.

Spent some time with my friend Pierce7d just exploring the character & his thoughts as well as things we figured out through explanations.

I'll just post the rough notes more so for my own reference later as well as perhaps someone finding it useful.

-Jab + Grab seems like it's a staple. Love it, learn to execute it without fail so you'll never drop it or accidentally mash a jab. Character's safe out of shield options are so poor that you have to basically crutch on this.
-Roll is slow compared to standard rolls so it's more punishable than the average roll. Same with spot dodge. This makes escaping from shield situations not really as good as most other characters.
-DTilt is pretty garbage. It's only good for spamming it at a ledge and edge guarding.
-FTilt is good to catch spot dodgers. It's also very good to pivot while running away as a pseudo anti air. Keeps people honest.
-Dash attack is good but not exactly safe. Still a good tool.
-Auto Reticle is a fantastic tool and probably is the Neutral B of choice for every matchup as it is dash cancelable and controls a fair amount of space. It doesn't have to land to be good, it just forces your opponent to react to your game plan, which is very strong.
-Fireworks can kill and have tons of invincibility on start up but are super punishable, have incredibly low base damage, & can whiff entirely if spaced wrong so this move is much worse than originally anticipated.
-Reflector is super matchup dependent. Probably not too much use. Decent tool for doubles (?)
-Angelic Missile has some good edge guard uses but is probably useless.
-Super Speed is a strong mixup tool. You can super speed and if the hitbox on the dash hits, you can follow up with an attack. If the hit is blocked, you can still pivot grab them when they come out of shield. Or you can simply just jump out of it and continue to run away.
-Lightweight allows for certain combos that normally aren't possible (Back Throw to BAir, it seems like you can forward air into down air off stage and still make it back really easy. I don't know if the "Ken Combo" is a true combo but it seems like it) making it totally worth using, as what you get out of an advantageous situation is much higher than the downside.

 

[Starbound]

Been trying Autoreticle, Super Speed, Jump Glide and Lightweight for a moveset and I really like it.

I tried Explosive Flame and Celestial Firework before but I wasn't a huge fan because I wiffed so many attacks and it was tough to do much without getting punished for it, and I haven't had nearly as many problems with wiffs as I had.

 

[Hong]

Celestial Firework seems at its best when trying to do a catch-all punishment for the ledge or when someone is coming down on you, because of it's invulnerability. As an actual raw attack, usmash pretty much covers the same thing.

 

[mimgrim]

So here are my impressions on Palutena so far;

So Palutena. First off, people saying she is bad are those who aren't using custom moves. Custom moves define her. The current set-up I've been running with is a 1312 set-up. Explosive Flame, her 2nd Nspecial, would be better then Autoreticle if the distance could be changed for it, but due to the constantly same distance it has it becomes super predictable. Super Speed, 3rd Sspecial, is like Sonic's spin dashing and Koopalings Sspecial, and is a very useful 1-2 combo and like the name implies it is really really fast and can easily take the opponent off guard. Her other Sspecials just aren't comparable to that one. Warp is her best recovery option. Goes a fair distance, and can go any direction. And then her Dspecials. In general I am not a fan of counter moves, so I would rather not use it. There is no point to use Celestial Firework when her Upsmash exists, they have the same function but Usmash is better in everything. So that leaves Lightweight which will make her faster and jump higher for an amount of time. Be warned though, after the time-frame ends here is a small time of cool down period where she becomes much slower. Now for her regular attacks... it gets a bit tricky here. Her ground ground attacks are laggy, aside from Usmash, but her air attacks are fast. Her ground attacks are also all disjointed and have good range while some of her air attacks are disjointed and have less range then her ground attacks. Her grab game is good. Pummel is great. And her Dthrow leads into a lot of things at like all percents. Early percents you have Dthrow > Fair > Fair after that you can do Dthrow > Nair, Dthrow > Usmash, Dthrow > Uair, and maybe more. Need more testing. Her neutral game is going to be mostly in the air and fishing for the grab while her ground attacks will be used for creating walls with lingering hit boxes to try and keep the opponent a bay. Overall she seems solid, but he has some defined weaknesses and strengths. I don't think she'll be top, but I think she might be in in the higher region of the cast still.

I think I might just end up maining this character. I'm finding her to be a lot of fun. She reminds me of a inverse Project M Sheik almost. Air based instead of ground based but lacks that neutral game still. But she has the mobility to subvert this and like P:M Sheik she has a really good grab game.

 

[Hong]

So here are my impressions on Palutena so far;



I think I might just end up maining this character. I'm finding her to be a lot of fun. She reminds me of a inverse Project M Sheik almost. Air based instead of ground based but lacks that neutral game still. But she has the mobility to subvert this and like P:M Sheik she has a really good grab game.

Spot on, but you should experiment more with the intangibility properties of Celestial Fireworks before you write it off, as it lasts for a rather generous period of time. There's all kinds of things only that kind of attack can do with the kind of reads you can make. I don't think the attack component is supposed to be the selling point.

That aside, I run your same custom special loadouts, plus an alternative one with Reflect for the appropriate opponent.

 

[mimgrim]

So Celestial has intangibility eh? That explains the white flash she has at the beginning of the move. I look into it more then. Though I think Lightweight will still have more uses.

 

[Hong]

So Celestial has intangibility eh? That explains the white flash she has at the beginning of the move. I look into it more then. Though I think Lightweight will still have more uses.

It is in my belief that none of her down specials are really staple moves, anyway. Granted, Lightweight is good for taking the fight off stage, if it doesn't work out, the penalty is kind of a bummer.

I like going with the one that is most likely to produce some form of success, and the least likely to get me bopped. That said, all three of them, yes even Counter, I feel are viable choices and it comes down to style. I'm a very read-focused player, so I have my biases.

 

[Wintropy]

I've actually found myself enjoying her default moveset quite a lot. I'm not big into customisation just yet (need to unlock more options before experimentation starts for real) but better off getting used to the default options before getting into the real nitty-gritty of the rest of her moves. I mostly rely on smash attacks and tilts, so I tend to just use Autoreticle as a keepaway tactic and then Warp away if I'm in trouble.

From what I've seen thus far of her customs, though, I'm liking Super Speed / Angelic Missile and Lightweight / Celestial Fireworks. It depends on what kind of playstyle I'm going for at the time, but since I'm currently focusing on a defensive ranged Palutena, I like Super Speed for the approach / dashing away and Celestial Fireworks for the added bit of off-guard striking it does. Very very impressed with her overall and I'm sure my skills will only improve the more I get used to her!

 

[overgamer]

Hello guys, old school melee brawl and PM player. Recently messed a lot with Palutena's default set, and I love how she fights. I also enjoy her combo game: Dthrow to Fair, Jab to Grab or Fair to Dash Attack. I know she has a lot of unsafe moves, but they are really satifying to land. I also really like how Fair autocancel, it's really awesome. Her standing grab range looks rellatively good compared to the rest of the cast. She doesn't deal a lot of damage overall, but small bits quickly add up.

I also want to contribute to MUs analysis in due time, and to develop tech and frame traps. I'm also waiting for frame data, but I know it's too complex and requires a lot of work for now. Anyway, a new Palutena main salute you!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so has anyone found a specific reason to use Nair over Uair? to me it feels like they function almost the same but Uair can kill so i've been using them both off down throw and wondering if there is a reason for me to use Nair over Uair.

 

[mimgrim]

Nair has more range and is more consistent at lower to mid precents off of Dthrow then Uair. Another reason not to use Uair out of Dthrow is so to not stale it's killing properties. Outside of using them out of Dthrow Nair is good because of the more range and it covering her whole body, so it has more uses in the neutral game then Uair.

 

[Burigu]

After reading some of you I see some people saying it's hard to play as Palutena, but I have to say she plays so natural to me, my constant absent here is because I have been playing like crazy, I am focusing on default set, since it is the butter for For Glory, my issues with her are mostly the timings with her aereals but those are missplays on my part than the character, definetely maining her. DAir is bad? Meteoring opponents with that move feels so good.

 

[andimidna]

Hey guys, found this site interesting. You just vote for matchups and it creates a tier list off of it that changes a lot every day.
Palutena was like 4th yesterday, but now she's close to the bottom.
Just wondering if you agree with some of these matchups, or want to vote on some opinions of your own.
Either way, you can check it all out here:
http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/

 

[Hong]

Hey guys, found this site interesting. You just vote for matchups and it creates a tier list off of it that changes a lot every day.
Palutena was like 4th yesterday, but now she's close to the bottom.
Just wondering if you agree with some of these matchups, or want to vote on some opinions of your own.
Either way, you can check it all out here:
http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/

Tier list
+ Within a week of the international release.
+ Tier list determined largely by people with remarkably little experience. (ANYONE can vote)
+ Content on Event Hubs.
= A formula for dubiousness.

No tier list should be given any credence until at least minimum three months after the Wii U release. By then we'll have Smash 4 on the main stage at nationals, and we can truly see people bring their best game out with the character. Furthermore, tier lists should be determined by credible, knowledgeable, and experienced players who can back up their claims with statistics and results. Ultimately tier lists are nothing more than an opinion, but that opinion in of itself still requires support and credibility.

 

[Nabbitnator]

Just saying peach went from 16th to 2nd and luigi is at the bottom. so yeah... on a side note im in a small tournament going on.
I just 2-0ed with Palutena and I might use her in the next match. http://www.twitch.tv/keyurai (i'm nabbitz and devilstar22 in chat.)

 

[andimidna]

Tier list
+ Within a week of the international release.
+ Tier list determined largely by people with remarkably little experience. (ANYONE can vote)
+ Content on Event Hubs.
= A formula for dubiousness.

No tier list should be given any credence until at least minimum three months after the Wii U release. By then we'll have Smash 4 on the main stage at nationals, and we can truly see people bring their best game out with the character. Furthermore, tier lists should be determined by credible, knowledgeable, and experienced players who can back up their claims with statistics and results. Ultimately tier lists are nothing more than an opinion, but that opinion in of itself still requires support and credibility.

Oh I wasn't linking for the tier list, but for the match ups. Wanted to see if anybody here wanted to vote what they thought some of Palutena's matchups could be. It's not one tier list, it changes like every hour based off the votes on the match-ups.
Idk, I thought it was interesting, not credible, but interesting.

 

[mimgrim]

Honestly, I'd say it's too early for MU charts as well.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Palutena's good now. But once people learn how to get past her tricks she won't be as good. I feel like it will be a Brawl Dedede type of thing not as drastic though.. She is certainly good but she can be figured out easily. She has really good 40% strings on people though.

D-grab to u-air is really good and kills relatively early.

Super Speed to up smash combos and kills at around 122% on all characters.

Lightweight is excellent for ceiling kills.

Lightweight: d-grab>up-air>double jump> Jump-glide> up-air. doesn't combo. But it chases them to the top of the screen and doesn't give them a lot of time to think. It can be dangerous and is good at high percents. You have to be at a low percent though.

 

[M]

What have been people's thoughts on Rocket Jump out of shield as a (defensive) KO option? Been using it to some success with Lightweight + Super Speed to make up for lost recovery strengths. It seems to kill reasonably early enough.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

I used to think Rocket Jump was going to be my salvation to deal with aggresive characters.

It's not as fast as you think out of shield.
It can't kill heavies until much later.
Recovery is terrible
Meteor is nice though.

I'm just sticking with the other two recoveries (still haven't decided which I like more)

 

[M]

While it's not exactly the fastest move in the world sure, is there really a better move suited for a KO in that situation?

Also not 100% sure how important it is how early it kills heavies as they're... well, heavies. Of course they're going to last longer.

I have fiddled around enough with Warp and Jump Glide, both being great options, but having access to a double jump that outclasses others by a mile via Lightweight (slight exaggeration, I'll admit) among other tools makes me feel an extra KO option that has uses in a very common scenario is warranted enough.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

While it's not exactly the fastest move in the world sure, is there really a better move suited for a KO in that situation?

Also not 100% sure how important it is how early it kills heavies as they're... well, heavies. Of course they're going to last longer.

I have fiddled around enough with Warp and Jump Glide, both being great options, but having access to a double jump that outclasses others by a mile via Lightweight (slight exaggeration, I'll admit) among other tools makes me feel an extra KO option that has uses in a very common scenario is warranted enough.

I will stick with the other two but I see your reasoning. I won't outright dismiss any move and perhaps in say, a week or so, maybe I'll change my mind yet again.

I used to think Light Weight was terrible. Now I think Light Weight is arguably the best move in her entire arsenal. Things change as you play more and learn more.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Add me guys: 2337-3706-8759

 

[Fluttershy]

Yeah light weight is one of her best moves. Opponents are no longer safe after being blasted by Fsmash or another move once light weight is out.. and i didn't like the trade-off at first lol

Would like to have a few ditto matches with some of you when/if anyone has the time..

 

[overgamer]

Just firgured out something probably stupid but... Palutena cannot jablock with a her jab. Was kinda sad at first, but her jab1 is really great otherwise, so I guess it's fine.

 

[Fluttershy]

Just firgured out something probably stupid but... Palutena cannot jablock with a her jab. Was kinda sad at first, but her jab1 is really great otherwise, so I guess it's fine.

I think they got rid of the jab lock. I tried it with Mario during the demo but on the fourth hit they get back up and I couldn't keep them in the lock..
Laser lock was removed as well just tried it against Samus