• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Guide Missile Tutorial

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Can any of you frame advance test to make sure it's not possible? I still haven't heard of the momentum delay effecting dropping/walking/running either

I'm pretty sure I've been able to get real quick drop throughs on my missiles on Yoshis with what i presume is Isai dropping
No, when you cancel a missile on a platform, you return to normal standing animation, if you miss the cancel, you would need to Isai drop, by moving forward then dropping down, or shai dropping (find the guide pretty hard to explain what it is or how to do it), but in normal standing animation, you can just drop through normally and fire another missile. What you are doing on yoshis isnt Isai dropping, its just normal missile camping ^_^, you are just doing it well though, which is why you may be confused with Isai and Shai drops, so just keep at it and read up on both to understand what they are and where to use them :)

If you want a better understanding, just jump onto a platform, wait a half a second, then press down and fire a missile, what canceling the first missile does, it take away that half a second you would normally need to wait to fall through a platform. What Isai and Shai dropping does, is help you get around that half a second wait, but you are canceling your missiles fine, and don't need to worry about them, and they are used for many other things
 
Last edited:

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Ah I see, I was thinking the missile cancel put her into some kind of normal landing like Falco's laser but it puts her into stand (after 5 frames or something?)

So even though other crawl characters can Isai drop, whenever she goes from walk to drop she enters her crawl instead because of the coding: which we don't know if that's easily remedied for the next version?

Woah, I was able to get it.

Okay I think you CAN, but you have to be very sensitive. If you tilt too far for the walk you enter the crawl once you press down, but if you press super lightly forward then down you can do it (or something). The timing is super strict.

Did it in normal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7UtpIxKRJE
Did it in slowmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rN-WCo6eyA

With missiles in slowmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msreFMh68V0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nudd2niQSQU
 
Last edited:

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Ah I see, I was thinking the missile cancel put her into some kind of normal landing like Falco's laser but it puts her into stand (after 5 frames or something?)

So even though other crawl characters can Isai drop, whenever she goes from walk to drop she enters her crawl instead because of the coding: which we don't know if that's easily remedied for the next version?

Woah, I was able to get it.

Okay I think you CAN, but you have to be very sensitive. If you tilt too far for the walk you enter the crawl once you press down, but if you press super lightly forward then down you can do it (or something). The timing is super strict.

Did it in normal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7UtpIxKRJE
Did it in slowmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rN-WCo6eyA

With missiles in slowmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msreFMh68V0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nudd2niQSQU
Sir, those are Shai drops, not Isai drops, but im glad you are improving, and it looks like making good use of the recording equipment
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
and the reason you weren't able to replicate it in any of the takes is because you brushed against Z, L or R during that one attempt and you hit the bottom right or left peg to make a shai drop happen. The animation shown in that half a second, was a shai drop, an isai drop just looks like a normal drop through the platform, you just do an action, move forward, and then go downward, to interrupt the 30 frame window where you couldn't normally drop. But hey, if you are right, and you can do one, but you just need to be very sensitive, why learn a now harder tech, just learn shai drops if you are going to need to be that precise for Isai drops with samus.
 
Last edited:

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
I don't know what you mean by not replicate, each video had it at least once, but indeed it's hard to get. I didn't hit shield, if you can't get it yourself I could do a handcam (or someone could do this in frame advance), so there's some kind of window for a perfect isai drop instead of getting the crawl. Shai dropping is pry easier yes, but I'm surprised there's still a window for the isai drop when I thought the crawl issue had ruined it completely.
 
Last edited:

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
I don't know what you mean by not replicate, each video had it at least once, but indeed it's hard to get. I didn't hit shield, if you can't get it yourself I could do a handcam (or someone could do this in frame advance), so there's some kind of window for a perfect isai drop instead of getting the crawl. Shai dropping is pry easier yes, but I'm surprised there's still a window for the isai drop when I thought the crawl issue had ruined it completely.
I think you are taking a little too much time during the drop for it to be actually Isai then, and the 30 frame window is already over :/
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
I don't think so, the 30 frame window is long enough that you would know
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
I don't think so, the 30 frame window is long enough that you would know
You understand 30 frames is half a second right? Like in a match it is a pretty long time window, but in real life, the inputs you were doing most likely were longer
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
I could record a slowmo of normal landing to normal drop, it'd be much longer than what's shown in the videos.
 
Last edited:

Citricide

JuneauSmashBros Tournament Organizer
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
176
Location
Juneau, Alaska
I can do fall through missiles to the right now, i'm having trouble doing it to the left, i keep morph balling on the platform
 

XalchemistX

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
570
Location
Queens, NY
NNID
Alchemistx
How do you get the perfect landing on the platform to spam the missiles? I've been trying for an hour trying to short hop to the top platform of pokemon stadium 2, but only succeeded a few times :/

Edit: I finally did it thanks to Barbie
 
Last edited:

HK_Spadez

(@'o')=@ t('o't)
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
221
guys im having problems with getting on the ps2 platform. if i short hop missle i never get high enough. i heard it may be cause im shooting missle too slowly?

Also I'm having a hard time repositioning myself properly.

esam in the vid said for ps2 to run back a step then jump torwards the platform again? but i seem to always miss the platform. like when i jump again i way overshoot it.

after platfotm drop missling. is it just 1 dash back? or do i need to go a bit further to be able to make it back on the platform.

sorry guys. pretty noob question but day 1 samus atm lol.

also so for ps1 a simple shorthop missle without the running start on the jump will make it?
 

pizzacato

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
521
Location
Irving, TX & Canyon, TX
Slippi.gg
coda#0
NNID
Pizzacato
To get a homing missile to short hop onto the ps2 platform you literally input a short hop - homing missile in the opposite direction and immediately slam the stick the other way to do a B-reversal. Drop down with a super missile, dash backwards short hop and repeat.

And yes exactly for PS1. #EasyStrats
 
Last edited:

HK_Spadez

(@'o')=@ t('o't)
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
221
does the drop down have to be super missile? and the drop down. is it just a regualr drop? I can have never that fast after the missile
 

pizzacato

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
521
Location
Irving, TX & Canyon, TX
Slippi.gg
coda#0
NNID
Pizzacato
It comes out the fastest, but essentially no. It doesn't have to be. Try to time it, you'll get the platform drop. I believe in you.
 

HK_Spadez

(@'o')=@ t('o't)
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
221
haha thanks T_T the samus training is looking very grim right now. i just wantd to make sure it wasnt like a isai drop into missle or something. and that yall getting it that fast with a regular platform drop.
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Hey guys, ESAM here. I have noticed that every Samus, whether Melee or PM, doesn't shoot missiles at optimally as they could on certain platform heights (Battlefield, PS2, anything with Battlefield type platforms). Also, people aren't utilizing B-reverse missiles as much as they could since it is GODLIKE.

Here's a video!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mkiNoRLX8w

Breakdown for what platforms are similar

SIMILAR TO POKEMON STADIUM 1 PLATFORMS (aka godlike power missile camping)
Yoshi's Island (melee)
Warioware
Side platforms of Lylat Cruise

Similar to Battlefield (Combined missile camping, as discussed in the video)
Pokemon Stadium 2
Middle Lylat platform

Need to double jump or just double missile camp
Dreamland
Skyworld
Skyloft

So yeah, learn how to do missile stuff in more depth pl0x. It makes Samus a MUCH better character because her pressure becomes absolutely ridiculous.

<3
How'd you do that fast movement thing during SKTAR rotating between crawl and walk?
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
haha thanks T_T the samus training is looking very grim right now. i just wantd to make sure it wasnt like a isai drop into missle or something. and that yall getting it that fast with a regular platform drop.
Just as a general thing: If you are a day one samus you shouldn't be worrying about the more complex missile stuff. You should be focusing on movement, how all the moves interact with each other, and recovery (Although that one is kinda brain dead in PM)



I should have a video up soon of the craw/walk thing, or as I'm terming it Mach Balling. It's pretty weird. The explanation will be in the video
 

POOB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
221
Yo ESAM, I was wondering what your opinions are on using SH super missiles below ps2 platform vs using SH homing missiles. Im weird and i find it easier/more natural to do sh super missile despite the timing required so im stuck on which one to use more

Edit: i will eventually have to master sh homing missile anyway cause super missile doesnt work on BF, but this question is mostly about ps2.
 
Last edited:

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Yo ESAM, I was wondering what your opinions are on using SH super missiles below ps2 platform vs using SH homing missiles. Im weird and i find it easier/more natural to do sh super missile despite the timing required so im stuck on which one to use more

Edit: i will eventually have to master sh homing missile anyway cause super missile doesnt work on BF, but this question is mostly about ps2.
OHHH **** POOB HAS A SAMUS, watch out smashing grounds ;)
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
The only time I really use the SH power missile on PS2 is when I'm at the edge of the platform on the near side and i want to run away and still shoot a missile but don't want to B-reverse a weak missile. IMO weak missiles are better for camping so I prefer them in general, but strong missiles are good too.
 

LydianAlchemist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
110
Location
Petaluma, CA
Hey guys, ESAM here. I have noticed that every Samus, whether Melee or PM, doesn't shoot missiles at optimally as they could on certain platform heights (Battlefield, PS2, anything with Battlefield type platforms). Also, people aren't utilizing B-reverse missiles as much as they could since it is GODLIKE.

Here's a video!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mkiNoRLX8w

Breakdown for what platforms are similar

SIMILAR TO POKEMON STADIUM 1 PLATFORMS (aka godlike power missile camping)
Yoshi's Island (melee)
Warioware
Side platforms of Lylat Cruise

Similar to Battlefield (Combined missile camping, as discussed in the video)
Pokemon Stadium 2
Middle Lylat platform

Need to double jump or just double missile camp
Dreamland
Skyworld
Skyloft

So yeah, learn how to do missile stuff in more depth pl0x. It makes Samus a MUCH better character because her pressure becomes absolutely ridiculous.

<3
Hi Esam. I'm toiletsnakes on twitter. perhaps you remember me.
anyways
I discovered some new-to-me tech last night. I'll explain here:

1. be hanging from ledge
2. fast fall and quickly jump as if to do a WD onto ledge
3. instead of air dodging input a missile (the input is a little later than I'd expected.)
4. if you do it right you'll have just enough forward momentum to land on the stage land canceling the first missile and fire another missile.

things to try:

WD off and repeat
WD off and fire a missile fast enough so that it doesn't hit the stage but skims the ground.

my bad if this is common knowledge, or if this is reinventing the wheel.
I haven't seen enough high level samus matches to see if this is used. or even viable.

thx
 

Chevy

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
736
I just figured out how to get 3 missiles out really fast in like a burst.

http://gfycat.com/ApprehensiveAcrobaticArgali

I used a morph bomb and did a weak missile after. You can't do it with 3 smash missiles because its too fast.
This is kinda neat, maybe actually usable unlike some morph bomb set-ups. There's no reason you couldn't do 3 smash missile though, just wait like 10 mores frame before firing the second missile.
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
I like when people lab and create stuff.

UNFORTUNATELY this is all kinda stuff that already existed in melee, but good on you thinking about it!

IMO the bomb set-up isn't worth it because it takes time to commit to the bomb and then shoot the missiles when you could've just been shooting missiles to begin with. Then again I'm not the biggest fan of bombs in general so I might be biased.
 

pinkdeaf1

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
805
Location
San Francisco
3DS FC
0387-9018-0614
I like when people lab and create stuff.

UNFORTUNATELY this is all kinda stuff that already existed in melee, but good on you thinking about it!

IMO the bomb set-up isn't worth it because it takes time to commit to the bomb and then shoot the missiles when you could've just been shooting missiles to begin with. Then again I'm not the biggest fan of bombs in general so I might be biased.
Would the practicality of something like this be more reliable when edge guarding? I think it's really neat to be able to shoot so many missilesIin rapid succession since dodging three incoming missiles seems so much more daunting than dodginga steady flow of missiles. But then again, shooting three at once requires set up, and if you can't find or make th e time to set up, standard missile spamming would probably be your best bet... any insight anyone?
 

Chevy

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
736
On Pokemon Stadium, you can do a land-cancelled missile edge-cancel into double missile without any setup. Just run towards the edge and time the first missile so that you barely slide off of the platform.
 

Narpas_sword

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
3,859
Location
Wellington, New Zealand
ive been working on using a B reversed missile after hanging off the edge to shoot a missile at someone recovering who is preparing to land on stage because im hanging on the edge.

Its nothing special alone, but as a mixup from the usual onstage spam it works well.
 
Top Bottom