Morph Ball Bomb Discussion

[Throwback]

If you have an agressive style I find bombs are good to break up the flow of the fight and put unexpected pressure on my opponent.

 

[Rhyme]

he would be forced into coming all the way toward you, or doing something like waste a jump, or otherwise put himself at risk.

If you were close enough that Wario was already in the air when you dropped the bomb, Wario would just attack Samus while she was vulnerable. Any earlier and Wario wouldn't approach because, let's face it, that bomb explosion will stop Samus from advancing as well. It's just a matter of maintaining spacing through a quick dry-spell in the action.

And goddammit can someone clarify the two explosions thing once and for all? Is it two hitboxes (displaced in time), for cumulative damage?

According to training mode, bombs have a total of two hitboxes for a total of nine damage when fresh (I don't recall the exact damage in vs mode). I don't know what the refreshing properties of these hitboxes are, but I would assume that they count as the same attack.

Oh, and, about Raigoth's tech: Is the cancel caused by the timed down input, or is it a timed release of a down input? Because I've been wondering why I can't get it to happen if I hold [down].

That I don't know. Pressing down until moments after touching ground seems to work for me.

Agreed. As do Zairs. Nana can't seem to shield zairs very smart, and bombs she isn't too smart about either.

I prefer power missiles only because they have more shield pushback. I can probably ***** some IC player out for friendlies/MM this weekend, so if that happens then I'll give my fresh opinion about which projectiles I like best.

 

[Rhyme]

And Rhyme, check out my Morph Ball Bomb Discussion topic and tell us about htis port 4 business. Like explain it.

((Bringing this over from the match-up discussion so I don't test Dryn's resolve.))

I'll get back to you on it after some more official messing around. But I have had instances where a Falco has grabbed me when I layed a bomb in mid-air, and I've avoided being thrown because the bomb blew up. Which makes sense.

Assuming it wasn't just the Falco messing up, it's about port priority in a grab. The higher numbered port takes damage but no knockback when engaged in a grab. The higher numbered port takes damage and knockback (think Snake's grenades, but apply it to Samus' bombs).

 

[NO-IDea]

I use morphing bomb to

A) Recover (self-explanatory)
B) Control the tempo at close range.

I would probably say Tudor would be best when describing the uses of bomb to control the tempo during gimping (when opponents are already limited in their jumps and therefore their time off the stage.) However, it should be used during on-stage battles as well, specifically against smaller characters and boxers (MK, Diddy, Falco)

A well placed bomb followed by good mind-reading and DI can usually save you from an agressive approach and possibly even land a d-tilt/f-tilt, etc. It can also be used as mind games (used prior to a d-air, falling up-air, etc.) I'm not saying abuse it, but Samus players have plenty of ways to utilize it.

I say well-placed bomb with caution because we all know what happens when we do it too late. MK tornados through, falco phantasms, snake DACUS, etc. However, doing it too early only causes the opponent to hesitate before approaching. Given you can't really go on the offensive either, it does give you time to think of your next move.

For the dissenters who argue that there are often better options, I would like to say that they may find their definition of better different than mine. I find my definition meaning control of the game, not the safest route. Sometimes, a change of tempo (I play SC IV and tekken so it's important) can mean win or lose.

AND HI EVERYONE! JUST CALL ME NOID! XD

 

[harriettheguy]

If you lay a bomb and DI away from it, then land and roll towards the bomb it explodes near the end of your roll, making your roll...less worse ( when you reaaaally have to roll)

just stating an obvious

 

[Rhyme]

That doesn't sound practical at all, lol. I use roll against tons of characters and don't get punished for it. Roll is a mindgame because it's so horrible that people never even consider that you'd use it. That by itself makes it a somewhat viable option once again.

 

[Xyro77]

lol. Bombs in brawl are a dead end. Nothing amazng will come out of them.

 

[n00b]

i use bombs when i want to lose

 

[Cherry64]

lol. Bombs in brawl are a dead end. Nothing amazng will come out of them.

i use bombs when i want to lose

I heart you two. I laughed for like a minuet straight there.

Bombs may not be a dead end, if they can do something for our foot stool. That'd be the only use for them.
But this isn't the place for foot stool convo.

 

[P47Rotgut]

I hope I'm not resurecting a dead thread but I have a question. Do bombs stack? I mean could you use them to keep other more useful attacks off the stack list?

 

[Xyro77]

I hope I'm not resurecting a dead thread but I have a question. Do bombs stack? I mean could you use them to keep other more useful attacks off the stack list?

yes. You be correct.

 

[Bimz]

samus is useless without bombs.

 

[JigglyPunch]

I use it often to prevent from grabs. It only work a few times, but it still works.

 

[LanceStern]

Morph Ball bombs play multiple rolls against ice climbers.

If you lay one and it's on the ground, it will reflect their icicles the other way, protecting samus. And what's cool is the bomb will stay there and detonate regularly.

Then I just lay a bunch around me at all times to prevent them from chain grabbing.


I'm actually working on a bomb-laying strategy called the Bermuda Triangle. It's my attempt to finding different ways to combat Metaknight. Lay a MBB in front and roll back, lay one in back and roll inbetween the two and lay another while moving back. It'll look like:

1st lay: o
2nd lay: o ____ o
3rd lay: x __o__ o

The x is an explosion. It effectively keeps them from rushing on the ground. If they do find a way in to hit you, they are guaranteed to get hit by one of the explosions.

I plan on doing that and fairing/nairing until they get into ripe KO percentages (see the dtilt/plasma shot) and then either dtilt or air release to plasma shot.

Any thoughts?

 

[Rhyme]

Yeah. Don't leave yourself that open. Bombs are better used infrequently.

 

[n00b]

mk will get hit at the most once by your bombs, then will proceed to shdair **** you from above

 

[LanceStern]

MBBs stop Mario's fireballs, but detonate.

They also give you that extra horizontal movement. With the help of Morph Ball Bombs you can actually cross from one side of the stage to the next from under the stage. From the ledge morph ball and move toward the side you're trying to get to, then morph ball again, jump and then up B to reach the other side of the stage:

Battlefield
Smashville
Frigate
Lylat Ship
Rainbow Cruise

Are a few of the ones I tested. Could be useful when people are pressuring you on one side or you need to get away from ledge traps.

 

[Metatitan]

they have two hitboxes right? would it be possible to poke their shield with dair after one hits?

 

[professor mgw]

i use them as a recovery tool ad well.
perventing cb's? now im not to sure of that...

 

[Cherry64]

they have two hitboxes right? would it be possible to poke their shield with dair after one hits?

3. And they really are useless as an attack. What I think this should be leaning to now, is using them a strap Lay a bomb then hit them into it. and proceed to follow up.
OR change direction entirely and talk about how it can be used to escape ****.
in Melee if you lay a bomb you'd jump over Kirby's Up B-sword-slasher-thingy-ma-bobber.

or Baiting. layign a bomb and GTFO of there. Wait for them to jump and U air.

 

[Throwback]

I think bombs as a spike setup needs to be perfected by someone then posted so we can all see how to do it.

 

[LanceStern]

3. And they really are useless as an attack. What I think this should be leaning to now, is using them a strap Lay a bomb then hit them into it. and proceed to follow up.
OR change direction entirely and talk about how it can be used to escape ****.
in Melee if you lay a bomb you'd jump over Kirby's Up B-sword-slasher-thingy-ma-bobber.

or Baiting. layign a bomb and GTFO of there. Wait for them to jump and U air.

Using MBBS helps you maneuver away from Pikachus' thunder when you're in the air. Very useful.

I think bombs as a spike setup needs to be perfected by someone then posted so we can all see how to do it.

Check out Tudors' combo videos

 

[Throwback]

Umm, has anyone else found this? I suppose you could call it a bomb AT (and if it is, can we call it the bomb throw? lol)

1.Crouch.
2.Move the stick to a diagonal crouch.
3. Press B. Note that the bomb is laid significantly to the side of where you would normally lay the bomb.

Ok that's the technique (stuff it, I'm naming it the Bomb Throw). Now apply to ledge-gaurding as follows:

4. Use the Bomb Throw while standing at the edge of the stage, so the bomb falls out past the edge
5. DI your morph-ball back onto stage (after the bomb throw)
6. raigoth cancel (ie hold down)
7. dash off-stage
8. Slow-fall dair/bair
9. Bask in a perfect ledge-guard and laugh at your opponent's disgust/awe

I haven't tested it against an opponent yet (it's 930am here), but I believe this will lay the bomb over the edge at the perfect height/distance to destroy any character recovering from below the stage (marth, toon link, G&W, kirby, etc etc). The exception is probably MK due to his curved upB trajectory, plus some other characters like snake, yoshi, etc.

**** I'm excited!

edit: After watching tudor's bomb tricks video it looks like the run-off bomb might be even better for this purpose. Regardless, I think bombs can be used for guaranteed spikes vs most recovering characters.

 

[Crystanium]

4. Use the Bomb Throw while standing at the edge of the stage, so the bomb falls out past the edge
5. DI your morph-ball back onto stage (after the bomb throw)

If you're referring to this, it's old. Melee old. I refer it as the Sipder Ball, since Samus returns to the stage without falling.

 

[Throwback]

nah that's not it. Crouch, move the stick to a diagonal-down position, then hit B. See where the bomb falls?

The only thing is that the spider ball as you call it might be more effective at exactly the same thing.

However, as I said above - with either technique and the right timing, samus should be able to near 100% spike characters using an upB to return to the edge, with some exceptions. Can you imagine being able to edge-guard GW successfully?

 

[Crystanium]

nah that's not it. Crouch, move the stick to a diagonal-down position, then hit B. See where the bomb falls?

In front of you. Nothing special.

The only thing is that the spider ball as you call it might be more effective at exactly the same thing.

It's useless, actually.

However, as I said above - with either technique and the right timing, samus should be able to near 100% spike characters using an upB to return to the edge, with some exceptions. Can you imagine being able to edge-guard GW successfully?

Yeah.

 

[Throwback]

yep turns out the crouch -> bomb does exactly the same as the 'spider ball' but is slower to do, so it's useless

However, I think with practice the spider ball could be an amazing edgeguard tool. I'm going to see if I can get some kills with it tonight.

 

[P47Rotgut]

yep turns out the crouch -> bomb does exactly the same as the 'spider ball' but is slower to do, so it's useless

However, I think with practice the spider ball could be an amazing edgeguard tool. I'm going to see if I can get some kills with it tonight.

I wouldn't say useless. It does get the bomb about a step farther that it otherwise would. That could mean the difference between hitting someone or missing them.

 

[LanceStern]

Some things I'm finding out. The "Bermuda Triangle" works better than expected.

 

[Cherry64]

Some things I'm finding out. The "Bermuda Triangle" works better than expected.

What is this you speak of?

 

[Throwback]

I believe it's something he talked about on page 4. Basically if the numbers 1234 are an area of stage and you are facing left, bomb at 1, then at 3, then at 2, then move back to 4 where you can bomb again or do something else.

 

[LanceStern]

It stops the opponenet from approaching, and if they do, they get sucked in.

I used it only on Metaknight and still lost. But it was working decently.

 

[Gum]

lol i've only been saying how good bombs were for how long?? yeah they are really good, and I've used them to beat MK's and Marth's a lot in the past. they interrupt sword dance, stop dash attack, tornado, and set up for your own awesomness. Raigoth's bomb cancel technique is great, and allows for some pretty nice combos. against good and aggrresive players bombs are a tool that should be used often.

 

[Cherry64]

lol i've only been saying how good bombs were for how long?? yeah they are really good, and I've used them to beat MK's and Marth's a lot in the past. they interrupt sword dance, stop dash attack, tornado, and set up for your own awesomness. Raigoth's bomb cancel technique is great, and allows for some pretty nice combos. against good and aggrresive players bombs are a tool that should be used often.

Marth's sword will hit you after you've laid the bomb, then guess what, they run away without being hit because the bomb has a sceduled time to blow up. honestly if I ever go samus to Ditto I will shoulder charge the other samus and then walk away from the bomb before it detonates. I've never seen bombs to be a good way to do anything except gimp possibly bomb jumping off stage could be a good way to use them, Saving your second jump though

 

[LanceStern]

Bombs disrupt opponents. They are useful

 

[Metatitan]

Bombs can be useful but they are too dependent on the situation to be relied on. They are not the key (if there is a key) to advancing samus' metagame.

 

[Cherry64]

Chances are dude, if you can time a bomb to disrupt an opponents move, you have a better option

bombs OoS???

it's not like we can shield grab ALL the time. in fact that's almost as situational as using bombs...

We should have a shield grabbing thread, to discover what can Actually be shield grabbed

 

[|RK|]

Everyone saying how bad and situational Bombs are... I believe that's what this thread is for. To look for bamb possibilities.

 

[Throwback]

I've noticed that when you bomb, you can do a 2nd bomb very close to the time when the 1st bomb 'arms'. Furthermore, the 1st bomb will last basically until the 2nd bomb arms. This means is that if you can get the first bomb off, it will protect you to get the 2nd bomb off safely in most cases.

In effect, this doubles the time your opponent has to beware of the bomb.

 

[LanceStern]

I've noticed that when you bomb, you can do a 2nd bomb very close to the time when the 1st bomb 'arms'. Furthermore, the 1st bomb will last basically until the 2nd bomb arms. This means is that if you can get the first bomb off, it will protect you to get the 2nd bomb off safely in most cases.

In effect, this doubles the time your opponent has to beware of the bomb.

Which is why I use two retreating bombs in succession if an opponent is chasing me. They would have to either guard BOTH (which is almost impossible), or jump over them where you should have a proper response (zair, plasma or utilt).

That and the bermuda triangle. They are very disruptive. I'll try it more in the next tourney I go to and see what's up.