Moves that can be Auto Canceled v1.1 - 2nd character row added

[Zantetsu]

Version History
v1.0 : Thread created/1st character row added
v1.1 : 2nd character row added

I thought Auto Canceling was a really useful technique and I thought people should know which moves can and cannot be auto canceled. So I decided to make this guide :D

Q: What is Auto Canceling?
A: Auto Canceling cancels all lag from an aerial move (with the exception of the lag from landing which is just a few frames). It's preformed by jumping then pressing an aerial move as soon as possible so the move finishes before landing.

Moves that can be Auto Canceled

Green : Can be Auto Canceled
Red : Cannot be Auto Canceled
* : Can be fast falled and still auto canceled with the exception of fast falling lag. (coming soon)

Mario
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Donkey Kong
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Link
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Samus
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Zero Suit Samus (Landing Lag in canceled with auto canceled moves)
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Kirby
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Fox
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Pikachu
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Marth
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Mr. Game & Watch
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Luigi
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Diddy
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Zelda
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Shiek
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Pit
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Metaknight
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Falco
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Squirtle
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Ivysaur
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Charizard
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Ike
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

Snake
Nair
Uair
Fair
Dair
Bair

 

[Luz]

? Isn't this just like doing an attack and then returning to the neutral air position (not making an attack) before hitting the ground? I fail to see the difference. If the move finishes before landing, I entirely expect there to be no lag from the move.

 

[Zantetsu]

? Isn't this just like doing an attack and then returning to the neutral air position (not making an attack) before hitting the ground? I fail to see the difference. If the move finishes before landing, I entirely expect there to be no lag from the move.

Ya... thats pretty much it.

 

[Eff_Soul]

Yeah,isnt this kinda common sense.Are we that desprate for techs?Soon there is gonna be a tech for taunts and ****.

 

[Tyr_03]

It may be simple but it's definetly necesary for the game. It's surprising how punishible aerials can be in Brawl if not used carefully.

 

[WoodyWiggins]

Well thank you BHLMRO!

 

[Eff_Soul]

It may be simple but it's definetly necesary for the game. It's surprising how punishible aerials can be in Brawl if not used carefully.

No doubt that,but i fail to see how it can be considered a tech.Casual,first time smah players probably do this once,if they have the desire to win.Wasnt this in melee too?


EDIT***************
Thanks for character list though,saves me some time.lol

 

[bovineblitzkrieg]

this is a good thread, thanks for doin this

 

[Luz]

BHLMRO, I'm guessing these are SH'd but not FF'd?

Also, if it's important to go RIGHT to the attack as soon as you jump, you might want to check out this topic, if you haven't already.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4098645

 

[Zantetsu]

BHLMRO, I'm guessing these are SH'd but not FF'd?

Also, if it's important to go RIGHT to the attack as soon as you jump, you might want to check out this topic, if you haven't already.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4098645

Ah yes, I'm actually doing that but I'm also going to training mode and going 1/4 speed to get these results as good as possible. I also plan on doing character row 2 tomorrow and maybe 3.

 

[FalconPunch]

I could swear that Fox's Dair AC'd.

 

[Libomasus]

Ah yes, I'm actually doing that but I'm also going to training mode and going 1/4 speed to get these results as good as possible. I also plan on doing character row 2 tomorrow and maybe 3.

I was under the impression that using a move so soon would cancel your upwards momentum slightly. Like the reason I can't do Marth's double Fair was because I was using it too soon and wouldn't reach a good height, and when I changed the timing I was able to do it a few times. Or maybe I just suck at Marth?...

 

[Luz]

Ah yes, I'm actually doing that but I'm also going to training mode and going 1/4 speed to get these results as good as possible. I also plan on doing character row 2 tomorrow and maybe 3.

I'm glad to hear that, I was worried about getting some bad results.

I was under the impression that using a move so soon would cancel your upwards momentum slightly. Like the reason I can't do Marth's double Fair was because I was using it too soon and wouldn't reach a good height, and when I changed the timing I was able to do it a few times. Or maybe I just suck at Marth?...

Good point, this needs to be looked into.

 

[Ghettoman]

you sure that fox's down air doesn't auto cancel? it combos very well so far. i haven't really tried canceling the other moves though

 

[trenton_dawn]

Ike's nair appears to have no lag at all upon landing, even if the move hasn't yet finished. My testing isn't comprehensive, though, so I might be wrong.

 

[SirroMinus1]

so theres no fast falling involved?

 

[audreyh]

I hope youre talking about shorthopped auto cancel because full jump is pretty given for most moves

 

[Lootic]

links clawshot, smaus grapple...?

 

[Phlemingo]

I played the game Sunday and I know that Ness's Dair can be auto cancelled by just short- hopping.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Auto canceling is basically landing during a certain frame window of an attack and the character will only experience the defualt landing lag. This is most easily seen with Ike's dair.

 

[Zantetsu]

I could swear that Fox's Dair AC'd.

you sure that fox's down air doesn't auto cancel? it combos very well so far. i haven't really tried canceling the other moves though

I am positive. Fox's dair doesn't have much lag at the end but there is a few frames where you can't do anything so therefor, it is not auto canceled.

I was under the impression that using a move so soon would cancel your upwards momentum slightly. Like the reason I can't do Marth's double Fair was because I was using it too soon and wouldn't reach a good height, and when I changed the timing I was able to do it a few times. Or maybe I just suck at Marth?...

Just tried this out and doing a move to fast doesn't cancel any height from a short hop

so theres no fast falling involved?

Not yet. After I'm done with all characters, I'm going to start doing fast falls.

I hope youre talking about shorthopped auto cancel because full jump is pretty given for most moves

Of course I'm doing short hops xD

 

[Cisne]

Eh.. If you try to shufle a marth´s fair like u would in melee , it will get autocanceled , without hitting L/R/Z.

You dont have to make the animation finish in the air.

The same goes for a lot of other moves.

Edit: Marth´s bair does not autocancels.

 

[Luz]

@ BHLMRO: Check this topic out.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=150916

When I read it, I thought to myself "Auto cancel + Auto dash = ultimate win??!?" I'm definitely going to try this when I get home today, but maybe you could look into it too. I just want to see how fast this combo can get the character going ^^^

 

[Cisne]

Seriusly, autocancel is not what BHLMRO is saying. Some atacks have auto L-CANCEL.

.- Marth Auto L-canceled aerials :

-Nair
-Fair
-Uair

.- Fox :

-Nair
-Dair
-Bair

.- Toon Link:

-Bair

.- Pit:

-Fair
-Bair

.- Mario:

-Nair
-Uair
-Bair

Just examples, every character have at least 1.

Those moves will get an auto L-canceled if landed while the animation is going.
Landing after a move finished its animation is just that and nothing more.

Use those moves to land without lag.

 

[Zantetsu]

I've known many people to call this auto canceling. Fell free to call it whatever you want but me and some other people before me will know this as auto canceling.

Update will be tomorrow.

 

[Cisne]

But I fail to see where is the Adv. Tech in your post.

For me that is just COMMON SENSE.

 

[Gkryptonite]

fast fall data please, then it will be a whole lot more useful

 

[Icantlos]

There are some moves that it is difficult to see that it can actually be completed (Fox's Fair is a good example) before landing. Thanks for the info.

Also if a move is "auto L-canceled," doesn't that just mean the move has less landing lag to begin with?

 

[Zantetsu]

But I fail to see where is the Adv. Tech in your post.

For me that is just COMMON SENSE.

Auto Canceling is common sense. The moves that can and cannot isn't common sense.

 

[Deleted member]

link's fair can be auto cancelled T_T

 

[Zantetsu]

link's fair can be auto cancelled T_T

No it can't. It just looks like it can because it doesn't have much lag.

 

[NJzFinest]

So it IS called Auto-Canceling? I'm so confused.

 

[Cisne]

Let me see.

Some characters aerial atacks have auto lag cancel, the best example is MARTH´S FAIR. You can land while doing it whenever you want and it will always auto lag cancel.

What you call autocancel is landing after an atack animation has finished ? Explain to me how is this so important. You dont need to be a genius to know that you will land with 0 lag when you are not atacking , just falling.

This is just TIMING.

 

[Kio Iranez]

tomato/tomahto, potato/potahto, auto lag cancel/auto cancel, etc.

 

[Jace08]

EDIT: Nvm then.

 

[Yuna]

This is still not what Auto-Canceling is. This is simply performing a move and letting it finish before landing. I mean, what about the moves that have a lot of lag? Is it not auto-canceling if you finish them before landing (through use of a 2nd jump, for instance)?

You're not even canceling anything by simply jumping and performing an attack and letting it finish before landing! What the hell are you canceling? You still lag! Certain moves just have very little lag when they finish in the air! But there's still lag... which you aren't canceling!

When you Auto-Cancel for real, all lag disappears. That's right, zero lag (almost). How to Auto-Cancel (for real-real):
Hit/Land during certain frames of an aerial. How much you lag is now determined on which frames you hit people during (you could auto-cancel certain attacks in Melee as well). At least that's how I understand it.

I haven't really tried it out myself but I've seen videos where people do actual Auto-Canceling (and not your inane version) on both hit and whiff (landing without hitting anyone - You cannot magically auto-cancel an attack in the air without landing or hitting someone).

That is how you Auto-Cancel. Now petition for this thread to be locked before the madness spreads any further. Way too many people are misusing the term "Auto-Canceling"!

All moves can be auto-cancelled using your definition (some just require you to be really far away from the ground since they last for so long! Look up the real meaning of Auto-Canceling before compiling a stupid list of moves that "have little lag when you don't land during them".

 

[usea]

Cancel means to INTERRUPT something by taking an action. You're not interrupting anything by letting an aerial finish before landing; it's not a cancel.

Also, ANY move can be finished before you land. Just jump higher or fall farther.... seriously

 

[0RLY]

****. Is Yuna EVER wrong? I noticed this list was wrong after DK, and after Ike, I knew it had to be wrong. The list is merely showing you a character's low lag aerials.

BTW, Ike's only low lag aerial is nair. Try jabbing after landing with your other attacks. If it comes out instantly (compare to Samus, ALL of her aerials have practically NO lag).

 

[WoodyWiggins]

I thought all the people with blue name tags stuck together. . . !

 

[eyestrain92]

NOT. WORTHY. OF. A. TOPIC. NOR. A. COMPLETE. SENTENCE. NOR. PROPER. GRAMMAR.

Please don't put obvious things in here >_> What is this, the non-sexkick list?