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My impression of Link

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
I fortunate enough that somebody at my school brought their modded wii and brawl so i was able to play a couple of rounds. First off, Link feels almost the same in melee. By almost I mean that you can feel that tad floatiness of his jumps. Second, almost every basic combo in melee can be done in brawl. I was able to do a simple dash attack, uptilt, then uair combo. Upsmash is usable and dtilt has no starting or ending lag. Just like in melee, if you time you button pressing right, you can Link Fsmash rather quickly. His Spin attack is not as nerf as i anticipated, it wont kill until much higher damage, but it still useful to keep enemies at a distance when they get too close. Overall, he a better character.

Any questions?
 

Lunar6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
211
How fast does he run? Would you say it's faster than in Melee?

And how about his weight? Is he still a bit heftier than average?

EDIT: And one last thing I forgot to ask, does he still have the Illusion Stab?
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
How fast does he run? Would you say it's faster than in Melee?

And how about his weight? Is he still a bit heftier than average?

EDIT: And one last thing I forgot to ask, does he still have the Illusion Stab?
He is faster than melee, but not a huge improvement. With the new mechanic, he slightly lighter than in melee, but you can still feel weight. Slightly heavier than average, but he is not heaviest. As for illusion stab, I dont recall of I was able to do it, so i dont think its in.
 

Lunar6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
211
Well, thanks for that, but further regarding the Illusion Stab issue, did you try to use that "Hold A" thing at all for Link? I witnessed a few characters using what I think was that new mecahinc (Captain Falcon and Fox, to name a few, in which those characters were shown jabbing very fast).
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
Well, thanks for that, but further regarding the Illusion Stab issue, did you try to use that "Hold A" thing at all for Link? I witnessed a few characters using what I think was that new mecahinc (Captain Falcon and Fox, to name a few, in which those characters were shown jabbing very fast).
sorry, I did not test that out.
 

Lunar6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
211
K. Thank you anyway.

I'm actually somewhat reassured, because after watching a recent All-stars video of Brawl ( check it ), I noticed Mario doing the same thing(at sixteen seconds), so it got me thinking: If there are currently as many characters doing that now (Mario, Metaknight, Fox, Captain Falcon, and probably etc.), then they'd be passing up to not let Link/Toon Link have access to it.
 

Robane

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
19
Location
Queensland, Australia
Link in Brawl feels... Somewhat...

Weak from my hands on experience. Runs pretty much the same as the melee link but I don't feel as powerful.
 

Jiho

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
32
how's link's forward air? it was such a great move in melee but i havent really seen anyone use it
 

ImpactAR

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
595
Location
South Carolina
Well, I have to say I appreciate that you're answering Link related questions. So I guess I should say... Thanks!

Now I have some really specific questions. Please bare with me.

SPECIAL ATTACKS

Spin Attack

Okay, we know it's nerfed in terms of power. But it seems it's like that with everyone. It also lost the "semi-spiking" property. But what about speed? I've read that "Up-B" in general for every character have been buffed in terms of starting speed. Does this apply to Link's Spin Attack? Can Link Spin Attack out of his shield quick enough or does the game physics allow him to Spin Attack out of his shield quick enough to make it a reliable defensive tactic?

Hookshot

I read that it's comes out a bit faster, but has a bit more recovery time, and the range is slightly shorter. True? Also, is it more reliable this time around since L-cancel is basically eliminated from the game?

In videos I've seen players have been just using the Spin Attack to recover and not using the hookshot at all. I have to admit even in Melee few players use the hookshot. But is there any reason to this other than preferance? Is it because the hookshot gives less range than the Spin Attack recovery and it's just generally safer since there is an "auto edge grab" even when they are in hookshot range?

Aerial attack wise, does the hookshot have more stun and provide potential for combos?

STANDARD ATTACKS

The Illusion Stabs

You haven't answer Lunar6's first question. Which is a really good question Lunar6. Does Link have the "Illusion Stabs." If rapidly pressing "A" after the first two jabs doesn't trigger the "Illusion Stabs," then did you try holding "A" after the first two jabs trigger the "Illusion Stabs" as Lunar6 suggested to see if it activates?

Neutral Aerial A

It's made pretty clear that Link has more range on basically all his moves. Does this effect his N-air in terms of priority?

Back Aerial A

Link's B-air. Simply put, is it as bad as some people are saying? Like, "hard to combo with" or "not enough knockback?" I'm reading a lot of good things about Toon Link's B-air so it seems odd that Link's B-air isn't getting much praise.

Forward Aerial A

I hear it has fast start up and recovery now. Why don't i see it use that often in videos? Why aren't there people doing "F-air, fast fall, jab, jab, etc" strings?

BALANCE

How does Link do against the rest of the cast so far? Is the game balance amongst the characters? This question kind of apply to every character.

If you would please answer the question with specific details. Thanks in advance.
 

Santini

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
266
Location
Cleveland
Here are my 2 burning questions.

How's his power? He was more of an "Ike" in Melee, but now I here he's much more of a "Mario" if you get my drift.


How's his recovery? To me at least, it just seems really bad compared to other characters'. Hopefully you'll prove me wrong.
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
Well, I have to say I appreciate that you're answering Link related questions. So I guess I should say... Thanks!

Now I have some really specific questions. Please bare with me.

SPECIAL ATTACKS

Spin Attack

Okay, we know it's nerfed in terms of power. But it seems it's like that with everyone. It also lost the "semi-spiking" property. But what about speed? I've read that "Up-B" in general for every character have been buffed in terms of starting speed. Does this apply to Link's Spin Attack? Can Link Spin Attack out of his shield quick enough or does the game physics allow him to Spin Attack out of his shield quick enough to make it a reliable defensive tactic?

Since his Up+B was nerfed, its not very wise to use it when your enemy on low damage. However, it activates quicker and and ending animation has slightly less lag

Hookshot

I read that it's comes out a bit faster, but has a bit more recovery time, and the range is slightly shorter. True? Also, is it more reliable this time around since L-cancel is basically eliminated from the game?

Hookshot comes out instantly, as for recovery I didnt really pay attention how long it would take to retract but I do believe he leaves it longer. Sadly, it is indeed shorter. As for use in grabing, it comes out quickly and he retracts it back quickly if he misses


In videos I've seen players have been just using the Spin Attack to recover and not using the hookshot at all. I have to admit even in Melee few players use the hookshot. But is there any reason to this other than preferance? Is it because the hookshot gives less range than the Spin Attack recovery and it's just generally safer since there is an "auto edge grab" even when they are in hookshot range?

His Up+B in the air has more horizontal range and easier to grab edges are the reasons people choose to Up + B rather than hookshot. The benefit i see in using a hookshot instead of up+B is when you want to cut your aerial dodge short

Aerial attack wise, does the hookshot have more stun and provide potential for combos?

With the recent discovery of hookshot cancel, if he lands while doing a hookshot in the air, it would completely cancel, it can be use more often to stun people, but I dont know about comboing

STANDARD ATTACKS

The Illusion Stabs

You haven't answer Lunar6's first question. Which is a really good question Lunar6. Does Link have the "Illusion Stabs." If rapidly pressing "A" after the first two jabs doesn't trigger the "Illusion Stabs," then did you try holding "A" after the first two jabs trigger the "Illusion Stabs" as Lunar6 suggested to see if it activates?

Sorry, I keep on forgetting to try this out. But from my experience, you cannot do illusion stab simply by rapid pressing on A. (Either that, I'm not pressing fast enough)


Neutral Aerial A

It's made pretty clear that Link has more range on basically all his moves. Does this effect his N-air in terms of priority?

Dont trust me on this, I havn't play long enough to find out, but it still feel like it has the same priority in melee just with longer reach.

Back Aerial A

Link's B-air. Simply put, is it as bad as some people are saying? Like, "hard to combo with" or "not enough knockback?" I'm reading a lot of good things about Toon Link's B-air so it seems odd that Link's B-air isn't getting much praise.

Having low knockback on his B-air is good thing because you can set up combos, and people who said its "Hard to combo with" are Link noobs. Two easy combo with b-air:
1.) [Enemy on the ground]Do a b-air and land, he has no lag whatsoever. If the enemy is not knock back that far, quickly turn around and do a downsmash. If he knock back with a slight distances, do a fsmash (comes out quicker in this game).
2.)[Enemy in the air with low damage] do a b-air then jump again and do either a.) another b-air b.) neutral air c.) d-air


Forward Aerial A

I hear it has fast start up and recovery now. Why don't i see it use that often in videos? Why aren't there people doing "F-air, fast fall, jab, jab, etc" strings?

It starts up faster than in melee, almost instant but not quite. Its because it has more knockback.
BALANCE

How does Link do against the rest of the cast so far? Is the game balance amongst the characters? This question kind of apply to every character.

As long you know what you doing, he can dominate any character. As for the whole game itself, its so well balance that you can play as Link against any character, even SHIEK! (I hate those stupid chain grabs). Every characters have their strength and weakness, but it is NOT to a point where certain characters are better suit fighting certain characters. I'm telling you this game is well balance. Though sometimes i question about Pit and Metaknight
If you would please answer the question with specific details. Thanks in advance.
I hope these answer you questions.

Here are my 2 burning questions.

How's his power? He was more of an "Ike" in Melee, but now I here he's much more of a "Mario" if you get my drift.

I will say this now, nothing compare ot Ike power, except for deedeedee. But i would say he more of an Ike because he attacks' damages are consistence.

How's his recovery? To me at least, it just seems really bad compared to other characters'. Hopefully you'll prove me wrong.
YOU'RE WRONG. Since he has more horizontal movement in aerial up+B, and auto-hookshot, he recovery greatly improve. I say the only time he wont recover is because you got stuck under a stage or something.
Though his recover is not the best, it is so greatly improved from melee.
 

ImpactAR

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
595
Location
South Carolina
Well... Now I don't have a reason to constantly search the Link Brawl forums no more. Thanks a lot.

But seriously. Thanks! You taken a lot of curiosity that have been bugging me...away from me.

I guess all I have is to ask you about certain strategies and tactics. I would like to talk to you about some potential strategies "against character X." It's pretty early to say what is effect against who, but I think perhaps you can share some of your insight. Of course it's up to you because these questions are easily discussion topics and may take up some time.

So to keep it short.

QUESTION

I was wondering what character(s) are you having most trouble with. I'm seeing videos and reading topics on how Pit and Luigi are really characters to watch out for in Brawl so I'm really curious about those two. You also mention Metaknight. So what aspects are you having trouble with against these characters and have you develop some effective tactics to deal with them yet?

Thanks in advance...again.
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
I think I may have asked this in another thread, but how much pull does Link's Gale Boomerang have on enemies? Does it depend on the weight of the enemy, or something else? Thanks.

Its not easy to pull characters with his boomerang. You either hit the target or if you do miss, the enemy would be nowhere near the boomerang when it comes back. As for distance, it can pull, but im not sure if weight is a factor.
almost forgot to answer your question

QUESTION

I was wondering what character(s) are you having most trouble with. I'm seeing videos and reading topics on how Pit and Luigi are really characters to watch out for in Brawl so I'm really curious about those two. You also mention Metaknight. So what aspects are you having trouble with against these characters and have you develop some effective tactics to deal with them yet?

MetaKnight is a beast in the air. With multiple jumps and very very fast attacks, he will mess you up if you're not on the ground. My strategy with him, stay on the ground. Oh god Pit. If you're not close to him he will spam arrows at you and he can shoot quite fast, and he can control the trajectory of the arrow. What makes it even worst, is when the player spam arrows at you, and when you get near him, he'll fly away. So far the only working strategy right now is take the blow of the arrows(trying to avoid some if you can) and rn after him with a bomb ready to throw at him just in case the player decide to run away. I have not play many matches with Luigi, but Luigi is very nimble and its hard to land an attack on him.
Thanks in advance...again.
yea i don't really have a strategy with Luigi
 

Vanish07

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
23
have you tested the limit's of Link's shield yet? i used to piss all my friends off in Melee by just standing still when they'd get super scopes or shoot Samus' fully charged beam at me, and i'm wondering if it is as amazing as it was me Melee. i'm not gonna lie, if i had a dime for the number of times the shield has saved my life from samus, or air-born home run bats, i'd be a millionaire.
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
have you tested the limit's of Link's shield yet? i used to piss all my friends off in Melee by just standing still when they'd get super scopes or shoot Samus' fully charged beam at me, and i'm wondering if it is as amazing as it was me Melee. i'm not gonna lie, if i had a dime for the number of times the shield has saved my life from samus, or air-born home run bats, i'd be a millionaire.
Well the shield saved me from a thrown bat one time, so I think it still has all the same property in melee
 

killbeast301

Smash Lord
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Apr 13, 2006
Messages
1,889
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as far away from you as possible
I don't normally use items, but my friend mains Samus, so the shield has saved me from the full blast many a time. (except now he SHs the shot, so I have to hit it with the sword, and use the disjointed hitbox which still rules)
 

Obligatoryfinalboss

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
110
Location
On that one street, on the hill, next to the tree
I think I may have asked this in another thread, but how much pull does Link's Gale Boomerang have on enemies? Does it depend on the weight of the enemy, or something else? Thanks.

Its not easy to pull characters with his boomerang. You either hit the target or if you do miss, the enemy would be nowhere near the boomerang when it comes back. As for distance, it can pull, but im not sure if weight is a factor.
Yeah thank you... looks like it's sweetspot practice time! :)
 

Flaminglink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
264
Location
Toronto
You rule!

Can you tell us more about his bombs? can you do the bomb jump and can bombs be used in gale boomerang combos?
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
You rule!

Can you tell us more about his bombs? can you do the bomb jump and can bombs be used in gale boomerang combos?

Bombs can kill! One time I threw a bomb in the air (its goes very high in this game), the enemy ran towards me and I did a Up+smash on him. He flew up in the air, hit the bomb, and the bomb killed him. As for other combos, you can still throw a bomb at him, he'll pop in the air, and you follow up with a forward aerial or boomerang. Sorry, I have not tried the bomb jump
On another note, you can hold down a to do his standard 3 stabs, but say good-bye to his illusion stab, he can no longer do it in the game
 

Lunar6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
211
I see. I know not to many pro users put that to much use in Melee (at least I haven't seen too many), but it's a bit disappointing IMO (at least for casual play in which I always pissed of my cornered friends). Still, his standard triple a is considered faster, and that third strike has shown impressive knockback ('specially on the lightweights) compared to Melee. But when you hold down the A buton to do his A combo, is it faster than pressing A repeatedley by any chance?

Anyway, what's confusing me most of all is the Gale Boomerang. There are videos where I see opponents knocked up(ward) into the air by it when it strkes them, and other times, it seems to pull them in a bit after it strikes them. I assume it has something to do with the distance, or maybe there's a sweetspot of sorts of the weapon, depending on which (vertical) direction you throw the boomerang. Most videos I've seen of that happening, the enemy is comboed right off the edge of the stage (which was the general location of the two players). This isn't really a question, just an observation.

Also, I've kept hearing talk of Link not being able to keep his arrows charged for as long as he wants, but I see videos of Link's arrows staying held down for a long time before they're fired (in quite a straight flight before arcing no less). However, I think the maximum time I've seen them held down was for about two seconds, where the tip of the arrow flashed three times at maximum (this, I have a weak recollection of though).

One actual question though, what would you say about Link's combo potential in Brawl? He's shown to have abit more knock back with his attacks as a whole, and the only move I see that looks consequentially laggy is his Dair (that said, I've seen it KO Shiek, Marth and Wario at under 100% damage due to what I think is a sweetspot). The only throw that seems to suffer from more knock back is his down throw.

What's your opinion on his Up Smash? I personally love the little refinement. A Young Link Spin Attack-esque vortex (what I see it as) looks like it helps as a priority.
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
I see. I know not to many pro users put that to much use in Melee (at least I haven't seen too many), but it's a bit disappointing IMO (at least for casual play in which I always pissed of my cornered friends). Still, his standard triple a is considered faster, and that third strike has shown impressive knockback ('specially on the lightweights) compared to Melee. But when you hold down the A buton to do his A combo, is it faster than pressing A repeatedley by any chance?

Not really, I can spam A pretty fast, so i didnt notice anything different when I just held down the A

Anyway, what's confusing me most of all is the Gale Boomerang. There are videos where I see opponents knocked up(ward) into the air by it when it strkes them, and other times, it seems to pull them in a bit after it strikes them. I assume it has something to do with the distance, or maybe there's a sweetspot of sorts of the weapon, depending on which (vertical) direction you throw the boomerang. Most videos I've seen of that happening, the enemy is comboed right off the edge of the stage (which was the general location of the two players). This isn't really a question, just an observation.

The angle you hit with boomerang will affect the knockback. The tornado effect isnt just for show, it actually has some properties. It can actually levitate an enemy if the fly above it.

Also, I've kept hearing talk of Link not being able to keep his arrows charged for as long as he wants, but I see videos of Link's arrows staying held down for a long time before they're fired (in quite a straight flight before arcing no less). However, I think the maximum time I've seen them held down was for about two seconds, where the tip of the arrow flashed three times at maximum (this, I have a weak recollection of though).

I'm not sure about that, I was able to hold it for quite a while, but i never test it if I can hold it forever.

One actual question though, what would you say about Link's combo potential in Brawl? He's shown to have abit more knock back with his attacks as a whole, and the only move I see that looks consequentially laggy is his Dair (that said, I've seen it KO Shiek, Marth and Wario at under 100% damage due to what I think is a sweetspot). The only throw that seems to suffer from more knock back is his down throw.

His ground game has practically no change at all, but his aerial is somewhat different. As you may know (hopefully), in melee most aerial combos are set up using his bair. Sadly since the second kick has more knock back in brawl, its hard to follow up. But then again, Link is not well known for his aerial combos, so don't worry about it.

What's your opinion on his Up Smash? I personally love the little refinement. A Young Link Spin Attack-esque vortex (what I see it as) looks like it helps as a priority.

His up smash is so useful now that its not even funny. It can catch an enemy when he behind you, and even when they're approaching you from the air.
When doing his down air, its very helpful not to fast fall and run through the whole animation in the air before you land
 

Vanish07

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
23
dude, could you check on the charged arrow thing? i know exactly what lunar is talking about, i've also seen a few matches where link's arrow seem to be fully charged for QUITE awhile before being shot out, even though the early reports said the arrow was shot instantly after it reached a fully charged state. if someone else has said this in another thread, then my bad man, but it seems that with all the newer characters being talked about constantly, no one seems to care about the vets like link anymore and no one i know of has talked about this lately.
 

Vanish07

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
23
hey Aurashade, could you **** off for a second? i'm trying to find out stuff about my character that no one seems to be posting about right now, and you're really not helping dude.
 

Heavyarms2050

Smash Ace
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
564
Location
Houston, TX
dude, could you check on the charged arrow thing? i know exactly what lunar is talking about, i've also seen a few matches where link's arrow seem to be fully charged for QUITE awhile before being shot out, even though the early reports said the arrow was shot instantly after it reached a fully charged state. if someone else has said this in another thread, then my bad man, but it seems that with all the newer characters being talked about constantly, no one seems to care about the vets like link anymore and no one i know of has talked about this lately.
Good news: You can hold it down forever!

I would also like to note that his down tilt still spikes
 

Vanish07

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
23
dude YES! you just totally made my day man, arrows have always been my favorite projectile and i was worried there for a bit you couldn't hold the charge indefinitely. i appreciate your time, man.
 

RAQU

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
158
Location
San Pedro CA
in my opinion links overall item game got A LOT better however i say this with the grimmest of sad faces... his recovery sucks about as bad as it did in 64.

im not saying it doesnt go high... but it has become insanely easy to intercept and lost a lot of its forward momentum. that alone mande me secondary link instead of maining him. (if you dont know what im talking about play a decent wolf player)

the claw shot without a doubt is completely useless as a recovery tactic now that its range is significantly shorter and cant latch onto walls anymore only edges.

so combat wise link has been upgraded without a doubt... but his recovery far outweighs what he gained... link is not better he is worse(not to say he cant compete because he can)... trust me i was once a die hard link fan.
 
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