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My thoughts on EVERY Brawl character in relation to the Tiers <3

Col. Stauffenberg

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
1,989
Location
San Diego <3
Yes, most of us have in fact been to a tournament. lol.

You really shouldn't try to get so preachy when you're obviously completely ignorant of how this game is played at a higher level.
 

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
Which would I trust more as a measure of a character's validity: the opinions of a non-professional Zelda player, or Zelda's results in an actual tournament setting?

Tournament results mean everything.
 

Gimpyfish62

Banned (62 points)
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
12,297
Location
Edmonds, Washington
it's not just touranment results

you can look at zeldas frame data hitboxes and general playstyle compared to better characters


zelda is just not good
 

vVv Rapture

Smash Lord
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
1,613
Location
NY
Just wondering, but if Zelda was sooooo good, why exactly wouldn't people be using her more and winning with her in tournaments?

The better a character is, the more likely the character will win tournaments. Because, hey, we don't see Ganondorf placing Top 8 because "he's good, but no one thinks so and tiers don't mean anything".

Zelda is bad. Anyone who loses to a Zelda (with some exceptions, as every character must have a least one player that is at least somewhat skilled with him/her/it) must have done something terribly wrong.

Tbh, Zelda is fine where she is. Until people have some sort of sudden realization of how uber Zelda is (which she isn't) and starting winning with her (which they won't), Zelda will move up in the tiers (which won't happen).

That's like trying to argue with everyone that a piece of bread is just as good as a full peanut butter and jelly sandwich. No matter how hard you try to convince people that the bread is just as good, if not better, than that PBJ, any person with at least half a brain with tell you to kys and take the sandwich.

EDIT: Plus, Zelda can most certainly be CG'd by the IC's. Not sure about others, but I'm pretty sure DDD and Falco can (even if they can't, they have no problem dealing with her).
 

dj asakura

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
840
Location
Peoria, IL
See this is what is wrong with tiers. Tournaments don't prove anything. You all site winning tournaments as the thing that proves whether a character is good or not. Have any of you ever been to a tournament? When 80-90% of the characters are in fact MK, Snake, and Falco then yes, MK, Snake, and Falco have the odds on chance of being ranked high tier. And I am so glad you, dj asukura, think using logic and a sound argument is "rather funny." Like I said (if you read my earlier post), when I challenge most people who say Zelda is a bad character they have no idea of her moveset, combos, strenghts, and weakenesses. That is because they have never taken the time to even sit down and learn them. That's because they go on the word of a few people who say she is bad without validating it themselves. You all should remember that a fool believes the first thing he hears.
Yes, it is rather funny. Actually, I might go as far as to say it's hysterical. What does posting a definition even prove? Nothing. People called you a troll, if you weren't/aren't, you wouldn't really care. If you do care and aren't a troll well...then there are other issues.

And really? Tournament results don't prove anything? Is that why the characters that constantly place high in tournaments are ranked higher than those who don't place well in tournaments? You mean that all this time that was just a coincidence?! NO WAY! MIND BLOWN!

Zelda is not that good, there is data and results to prove it. You're EXTREMELY biased and apparently you're not very well informed about Brawl's metagame either.

And hey, next time you do really awesome in training mode or against a CPU, be sure to let us know so we can move Zelda up a couple notches on the tier list.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
Zelda is horrible, but also underplayed and therefore underrated.

But with her effect on the metagame, she might as well be bottom 3.


See this is what is wrong with tiers. Tournaments don't prove anything. You all site winning tournaments as the thing that proves whether a character is good or not. Have any of you ever been to a tournament? When 80-90% of the characters are in fact MK, Snake, and Falco then yes, MK, Snake, and Falco have the odds on chance of being ranked high tier. And I am so glad you, dj asukura, think using logic and a sound argument is "rather funny." Like I said (if you read my earlier post), when I challenge most people who say Zelda is a bad character they have no idea of her moveset, combos, strenghts, and weakenesses. That is because they have never taken the time to even sit down and learn them. That's because they go on the word of a few people who say she is bad without validating it themselves. You all should remember that a fool believes the first thing he hears.
What you fail to realize is that a major part of the reason there's a greater number of those characters in tournaments is because they're so much more effective.




Now, let me ask you this, what does zelda do against a shielding opponent?




Also, I find it incredibly ironic that you have to ask "have you ever been to a tournament?" Maybe .02% of people who post on tactical have never been to a tournament and I'd say around 90% are regulars.
 

Blacknight99923

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
2,315
Location
UCLA
Maybe .02% of people who post on tactical have never been to a tournament and I'd say around 90% of regulars.
um that doesn't make sense .02% is 2 in 10,000, or 1 in 5000 if 10% of the regulars haven't been to a tournament this doesn't make sense, whats wrong with you adum tsk.


otherwise your correct in your post.
 

Conviction

Human Nature
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
13,390
Location
Kennesaw, Georgia
3DS FC
1907-8951-4471
I just noticed that all these trolls. Yes you are a troll or just VERY uninformed or VERY BIASED about Zelda or both.

GanonSTier(whatever his name was) Trolled for some type of Ganon raise in the tier list
ZeldaRox! <-hmmm I'm starting to see a trend....
 

superlucario

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
78
Location
your shadow
I read the whole thing and I got to say pretty good points However if you want to see what makes lucario good look up jeepy on youtube
 

PZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
1,987
Location
Hinesville, Georgia
The past tier lists show falcon not moving up from bottum until tier list 3 and 4 but falcon will always remain number 35. Yoshi has alot of potential disjointed hitboxes are a pain though. Pikachu is either right where he is at or lower I dont think hed get higher truthfully.
 

joshthelegodude

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
9
I agree!

Well, I agree with everything you say about my mains.
Here is my order
Pikachu->Diddy Kong ->Lucario ->Fox

Pikachu's solid electric attacks should held him alot.
Diddy has an amazing fighting style, plus the oh-so-fun-to-annoy-people-with bananas.
I love lucario's "higher damage=higher power" factor, and a high priority dair.
And fox should have enough of everything to be pretty good. He can lack in killing power sometimes, but his attack speed can make up for that.
I think I will make one of these as a vid to put on YT. Thanks for the inspiration.
 

Sorto

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
409
Good Read. And IDK if its been said, but look at his section on Olimar, gimpyfish totally predicted the Brood upset at Apex.

I used to feel the same way about Olimar gimpy. His onstage game is beast. And I played him for a while and I still do, but he has large flaws that non-olimar mains dont seem to notice. His smashes have no priority, his grabs have no height, and his aerials are mediocre. I kinda feel like Diddy has a completely better on stage game, that can somewhat mirror Olimars. Diddys out of sheild options of throwing a banana is quicker and better then any of olimars out of sheild options, including Olimars sheild grab. Diddy's bananas when thrown from the ground follow a similar trajectory to olimars fsmash and grab, except they come out faster(frame 8 in comparison to frame 11 for olis fsmash and grab), go farther (atleats 1.5x the length of olimars fsmash), have less lag (26 frames as compared to olimars 39 for fsmash and 29 for grab) by a large margin, they also have infinite priority (they can beat the tornado while olimars moves can not) and if the bananas land a hit they should guarentee 20+% damage on the opponent after a follow up (the follow up is guarenteed). Diddy can mirror olimars upsmash too, as the bananas can be thrown straight up and have low enough lag that hitting an opponent in the air with them can guarentee a quick up air follow up. I feel it wouldnt be a stretch to say that diddys aerials are atleast as good as olimars (if not better). Olimar has better kill power, but most of his solid kill moves have reasonable ending lag and are somewhat hard to set up. While diddy has less kill power, but much easier and safer setups and with combos and fresh kill moves his power wont even be much less. Diddys kill moves almost equal olimar being able to reliably kill with a quicker, longer, less laggy fsmash at like 120% damage (before the hit), even red/purple pikimin usually dont accomplish a kill at that percent with fsmash unless near the edge. The only onstage advantage I would say olimar clearly has is spam And olimar has good spam, but i think its also overrated. Aside from purples none of his pikmin create sheild stun or hitstun that wud cause the enemy to slow down on his approach. Also if an opponent has a low lag, multihit, large hitbox move, olimar cant even force the approach. A mario cud stay at the other side of the stage just short hop dairing and the pikmin wont even get a chance to really latch or do any damage and if mario has the lead that could be a problem. And besides, its not like diddy doesnt have a decent spam move with the peanut gun. Anyway, my final message becomes, I think Diddy has a better onstage game then olimar. Also, one more thing, olimar has very few options to deal with things like IC desynched blizzards, because of its range and priority. Olimar can not fsmash through it because his moves have no priority and they just go flying away, diddy does not suffer from this issue because his bananas have almost infinite priority and can go right through it (just something to note).
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Jigglypuff wont be the 4th worst forever. She belongs to about where Lucas is. Someone just has to step up and prove it. By rankings she is the worst. No one plays her unfortunately.
 

lordhelmet

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
4,196
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I can't wait for the day that an amazing Olimar main breaks out of nowhere and wins something big.
Gimpy predicted Brood would take second at Apex 2!

But other than that the OP is pretty 08-09 mindset xD

Edit: God****it Sorto beat me to it
 
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