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Need help to integrate throws in my playstyle

Vividice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
36
Hi.
I main Samus over 2 years but I never got familar with throws while playing Samus.
The reason is, because it never appeared very useful to me I kinda ignored throwing and never used it. With other characters I use throws, but not very often.
Curently im trying to improve my playstyle and I discovered this huge lack :D

But it is hard to integrate it after more than 2 years without it...


Maybe someone could give me advice on
-basic situation when to throw
-basic/common combos with throws
-anything helpful to overcome my habit
-whatever you estimate useful for someone who is used to play samus but not used to use her grapple beam :D


Thank you.
Vividice
 

Saymus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
188
Location
The PWN
I'll try and offer some advice...

The grab is really situational at times, because it's not just some move you can spam, you know?


And sometimes there's better options than to grab, but, it all depends, so...

- after an opponent air-dodges near the ground (wait for them to fall, then grab)

- when they land after using their second jump (get them on the landing-lag)

- when they're on the ground, lying, and haven't gotten up yet (though it's better to dsmash sometimes in those situations because a grab is usually too risky. it's still an option though I guess)

- after a missile - do a missile-cancel next to them and most likely they'll shield, so you follow with a grapple to grab them out of their shield.

- a tip for grabbing - the beam itself won't grab out of the air, but right where the beam comes out of the arm cannon is where samus can grab out of the air - so keep that in mind.

- since the grab of course is faster if you dash-grab, when close to them, dash away then dash back then grapple (if you predict they'll shield)

- anytime you feel like doing a dash attack and you feel they might try to go for a shield-grab, use a grapple instead

/some ideas

edit:

Some basic combos...

For fastfallers (Fox, Falco, and sometimes Falcon), always throw them up, because they'll be able to tech out of a Dthrow too quickly for you to do anything. Though, at higher percents, and depending on how they DI, it's possible to Dthrow to Ftilt, but because of the hitbox, you might hit them behind you on accident (happens mostly if they DI towards you or no DI at all).

So when you throw them up, jump up and bair or sex-kick, depending on how they DI. that's about all you can do from an up-throw with fastfallers.

though, when you're near the edge, it's really good to throw them off, because they're all fairly easy to edgeguard when you do. for example, throw falco off the side will cause him to immediately jump/up+b, which gives you time to prepare for an edgeguard.



For non-fast-fallers... down-throw to ftilt, jab, dtilt, fair, utilt... all those moves have potential, depending on the character's weight and what not. for heavyweights like Bowser, DK, Ganon, and Marth, at medium percentages or higher, dthrow to utilt works (someone might correct me here, but for the most part...) unless they DI away from you too quickly, or behind you, in which case you'd use whichever aerial fits best, or at low percentages, even a dash attack.

(hopefully this post can be a base for someone else's post...)


One more thing, don't try to predict your opponent running into your grapple beam - this will just end up in you throwing out your grapple beam, your opponent tactfully ignoring it, and then you getting punished for it. Instead, try to limit its use to situations where your opponent has little or no choice of movement (like the examples mentioned above).
 

Rat

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
1,870
Location
Chicago
naw pivot grabs are bad. You want to be doing the run animation when you press grab not the standing one.


When to grab:
When they block.
Obvious stuff but you need to anticipate the block and then grab. Do they stand up off the edge then block because every time you wd back to forward smash. Next time there on the edge DD or wd back into grab. Do you like to buffer your smashes with jabs? Next time after you jab, grab or DD grab. Do they anticipate your grabs and spot dodge? DD a bit before you grab then grab. Do shieks keep attacking you with their shield, next time you see shiek run, DD a grab (Like just one back and forth. This is just incase they dash A (or many other attacks) at the front part of you.) Do you like to come in with Dairs and Nairs? Do they like to shield grab in response. Jump at them, FF waveland back then grab. Also chaining your grabs is good. by that I mean after a Dthrow or something intimidate them with a crazy dance then grab. Or don't finish a combo, jab, wait for them to shield then grab.
 

JettythatSamus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
162
Location
Fresno, CA
naw pivot grabs are bad. You want to be doing the run animation when you press grab not the standing one.
a pivot grab in the situation he described would be much faster than a dash danced grab. pivot grabs are underrated for samus
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
Basically, grab when you know you won't be punished for it.

(Much like using the charge blast)
 

pressthebutton

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
199
Location
san diego, CA
tech chase with jc'd grabs. yea i said it lol. i'm telling you, it really does work. i dunno if its because everyones used to samus using the dashing grab, but if you experiment around with it enough, you'll find uses for it. sure, its a lot laggier, but i find that the extra length helps me space farther away from my opponent and just overall seems to work better for me
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Out of dthrow on a lot of characters, you can also dash attack if they DI away. I also like to UpB out of a Dthrow when they DI towards me.
 

jodo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
33
Location
West Palm Beach, FL
A nice combo if you have a charged B is to grab someone who is dashing toward you and up throw -> jump up A -> fast missile -> charge shot. On final destination this is a great Z2D vs fox
 

Vividice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
36
Allright I tried out most of the things you wrote, especially Saymus advice was very helpful.
So thanks everyone!

But I can't get rid of the impression that I would be better of with a jab, ftilt, utilt or even a fsmash.


Is it like that? Is throwing with Samus just useful to confuse the enemy?



I would like to know situations where the best reaction would be a throw.

The only situation where I could expect throwing as the best answer is shieldthrowing after an enemy arial.
Is that an viable situation to throw or would another action be better?

Are there other situation where throwing is the best thing you could do?
 

Saymus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
188
Location
The PWN
Allright I tried out most of the things you wrote, especially Saymus advice was very helpful.
So thanks everyone!

But I can't get rid of the impression that I would be better of with a jab, ftilt, utilt or even a fsmash.


Is it like that? Is throwing with Samus just useful to confuse the enemy?



I would like to know situations where the best reaction would be a throw.

The only situation where I could expect throwing as the best answer is shieldthrowing after an enemy arial.
Is that an viable situation to throw or would another action be better?

Are there other situation where throwing is the best thing you could do?
Good questions.


Uh.... yeah it's good to confuse them with. I mean, in a general sense, a slow attack such as her grab is not something you're going to expect from Samus - but knowing this, you can use that to your advantage. Of course people are always getting smarter, so they probably expect the grab more now... meaning, yeah, like you said, "when are the best places to use it."

Shield-throwing after aerial... it seems like up+b out of shield would be best there, unless it's a really slow aerial.


Really, I think your best chances of using it are when they make a mistake, or when you give them no other option than to shield, and you can follow up with a grab, or, when nothing else you could do would work (though... that's somewhat redundant).

So, if they messed up a recovery, or had no other option - say you're both off the edge somehow, on FD, and you're playing a Fox/Falco, and they can bet you're going to up+b back to the ledge - they'll want to side+b back to the stage - say they go over the stage though (messed it up or were forced to somehow) - while they're doing that, you're recovering... basically, you're on the ledge and they've just landed - they're recovering from lag, you edge hop WD to grab and throw them back off again - they're down below, using up+b to recover, and you're on the edge - a perfect place to edgeguard them.

So yeah, that's really situational, but those are the places where you'll best need/want to use the grab.

So... when you land and missile cancel right near them, they either have to jump, dodge, or power-shield it. If they jump, you're not close enough (because they had the time to) and you watch for it... and go from there. If they dodge, you utilt/grab. They shield, you grab. If they're really good at power-shielding (hey, my friends are)... act like you're going to missile, wait for their shield, then grab. (Or, if it's a character that can easily attack you while you're missile-cancelling, fake them out somehow so they shield. And as well, if they're near a ledge, they could WD back to the ledge).

Of course...

Sometimes it's just better to go for a charged fsmash, wait for the spot dodge (or whatever), and then hit them with that - like you said, sometimes it's just better to go for an attack instead of grapple.

(I didn't just go in a roundabout did I >_>)

Some good situations for a grab are when you know you can kill them with it - high percentages on fast fallers - you down throw them and they bounce too high to tech, =fsmash to death.

One other thing... if you're being aggressive and really pressuring them, and then you get them into a combo, persay, and you chase them, chances are they'll shield - so it's times like these when you can grab - even twice or three times in a row (though that's really lucky and somewhat stupid, possibly even unncessary) - and you'll get it on them because they w.ere scared and tried to shield whatever you were thowing at them

Ah. I can't really think of anything very definite to say. (hope i didn't blather too much or something)
 

rayecho

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
668
Location
Hayward
grabbing is really useful cause it goes right into combos.
when most characters go into shields, they expect you to attack, so go up and grab quickly. up-throw falco,fox,falcon at zero percent and when they DI, jump and use a charge shot(if you have one) or nair them.
 
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