Need help vs this Marth!

[Blunted_object10]

Videos from our most recent tournament..

Winners Semis

Grand finals (set 1)

Grand finals (set 2)

yea I lost lol I managed to beat him in Winners..

Anyways any advice would be helpful!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kason Birdman]

wicked nice dtilt for the first ko.. so good.

almost everytime he is on the platform above you you uair him.. if i know im gonna land a hit i would go with shine most of the time... and if he sheilds it you just wave up there and can start some pressure on his sheild out of your first shine..

but ****.. you are magical at recovering.. and that wall jump double jump dair? ****, totally using that now.

I didn't really see anything played or done wronge.. playing the matchup great. but i only watched first set.. ill watch grand finals later probably.. for now i gotta run.

 

[G.L.]

take what you want but id say just less spot dodges to try and get out of marth tech chases. i sometimes get caught up in doing that too much and get ***** for it. also i dont think its very safe to run to the ledge and DJ back on with a bair. like it could trick them into getting hit a few times but theres no real combo off of it and the risk is being edgeguarded by marth, which isint worth it. also just use lasers to camp and just try to bait attacks more. switch your gears up some times to throw him off. but your recoveries are super smart and it seems like you know marths edgeguard game really well which is good

 

[Kason Birdman]

also i dont think its very safe to run to the ledge and DJ back on with a bair.

its called receding stage bair. east coast canada metagame.

****.

 

[unknown522]

pretty much all that stuff I told you on msn.

Also, I forgot to mention that you never laser him while he's in the air, or committed to moves. You can get lots of free combos for that. He also mis-spaces a lot of aerials, that you could CC. As long as you're below 60%, CC is the ****.

Also, you should laser him when you have him offstage. Force him to go low with lasers, then edgehog and force him to up-b onto the stage. Then punish the lag after. You can also just do the marth-killer, once you see him go low.

I noticed that you and some of the other players try to do the marth-killer, when he's still kinda high in the air. He then just drops and grabs the ledge, while you are sitting there. Once he gets close, then b-air OoS, or WD off and b-air him.

kinda minor things:

- shorten illusion
- firebird sweetspod (diagonally down)
- airdode onto the cloud
- grab more often. Catch him when he's shielding, or WDing. You can almost always get an u-air -> move after a u-throw as a follow-up. You have to react to the throw, but it isn't hard.

 

[Brookman]

I think you should turn your brain on.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Game 1 of set 2:

0:51- Jumping from so far away at Marth(at least from the get-go) is bad because Marth has all day to react to you there.

0:53- Tech skill.

0:54- Teching in place might have gotten you the edge? Not sure because Melee is weird about that sometimes.

1:03- React to what happens if you can. Marth was stunned long enough for you to push his SDI away on the Dair.

1:07- Going right into Marth with the end of your forward B is usually a bad idea.

1:15- React to the SDI'd lasers on the throw and try to get under Marth or set up closer laser pressure.

1:23- Going for that Dair and that double jump just put you in a bad position. Stop trying to be fancy?

1:45- It was a close call, but I'll just remind you that you can come down with a laser.

1:51- Should have tried to challenge him more, but then you got kinda close and then scared. No need to be spotdodging from that distance anyway.

2:06- You've done the same walljump Forward B the last few recoveries. Sometimes just jumping into Marth will confuse him because you've done so much awkward stuff lol.

2:29- Don't get scared. Try to stay moving if you lose stage control instead of always running off of the edge and doing something.

2:44- Marth had no reason to approach, so don't Dair.

That should be pretty good for starters.

 

[Blunted_object10]

pretty much all that stuff I told you on msn.

Also, I forgot to mention that you never laser him while he's in the air, or committed to moves. You can get lots of free combos for that. He also mis-spaces a lot of aerials, that you could CC. As long as you're below 60%, CC is the ****.

Also, you should laser him when you have him offstage. Force him to go low with lasers, then edgehog and force him to up-b onto the stage. Then punish the lag after. You can also just do the marth-killer, once you see him go low.

I noticed that you and some of the other players try to do the marth-killer, when he's still kinda high in the air. He then just drops and grabs the ledge, while you are sitting there. Once he gets close, then b-air OoS, or WD off and b-air him.

kinda minor things:

- shorten illusion
- firebird sweetspod (diagonally down)
- airdode onto the cloud
- grab more often. Catch him when he's shielding, or WDing. You can almost always get an u-air -> move after a u-throw as a follow-up. You have to react to the throw, but it isn't hard.

Thanks Ryan!

I think you should turn your brain on.

OMG why didn't I THINK OF THAT!? :O Best advice ever!

Game 1 of set 2:

0:51- Jumping from so far away at Marth(at least from the get-go) is bad because Marth has all day to react to you there.

0:53- Tech skill.

0:54- Teching in place might have gotten you the edge? Not sure because Melee is weird about that sometimes.

1:03- React to what happens if you can. Marth was stunned long enough for you to push his SDI away on the Dair.

1:07- Going right into Marth with the end of your forward B is usually a bad idea.

1:15- React to the SDI'd lasers on the throw and try to get under Marth or set up closer laser pressure.

1:23- Going for that Dair and that double jump just put you in a bad position. Stop trying to be fancy?

1:45- It was a close call, but I'll just remind you that you can come down with a laser.

1:51- Should have tried to challenge him more, but then you got kinda close and then scared. No need to be spotdodging from that distance anyway.

2:06- You've done the same walljump Forward B the last few recoveries. Sometimes just jumping into Marth will confuse him because you've done so much awkward stuff lol.

2:29- Don't get scared. Try to stay moving if you lose stage control instead of always running off of the edge and doing something.

2:44- Marth had no reason to approach, so don't Dair.

That should be pretty good for starters.

Thanks PP I will get him next time!

 

[Blunted_object10]

2nd set is up.. which aka was the 1st one that was missing... my bad

 

[Brookman]

So you mean to tell me that, when you watch these matches, you don't see how mindless you're playing??

Go through and count how many counters you neglect to punish. or how many times he hits you off of the respawn platform. just for starters.

 

[Blunted_object10]

So you mean to tell me that, when you watch these matches, you don't see how mindless you're playing??

Go through and count how many counters you neglect to punish. or how many times he hits you off of the respawn platform. just for starters.

Your.. gonna have to give me some examples....

 

[Brookman]

I started here this morning and didn't get too far. This is my two cents from my first impressions:

WF g1 comments:

randy off stage shine bair @ ~:32

over all poor use of l cancel/shffl

running up tilt to down air tally: |

~2:03: you should use the wave dash to follow his rolls.

~2:09: Even though what you're doing is great for spacing out of his grab, you are back airing wrong. At least vs. his shield here, try shfffffling. really focus on the 1. FAST FALL 2. L cancel timing, both the input and the actionable frame after said L is C'd.
g2

3:00 you should learn to wavedash

see, you did it @ ~3:32

back air is great under yoshi story platforms

amazing recovery @ 4:27!

4:36 dair f smash/down smash I think . . .I mean, I know you're trying to dair for the kill but it cost you

I see you doing this all game. You jump through his shield and back air. You should really just try grabbing him when he blocks. puts so much pressure on him to stay out of shield

6:35 definitely DROP THROUGH THE PLATFORM. ASAP Unless you think he is going to the other plat (but he's marth soooo its risky) then you can just start lasering.

looks like you were really desperate at the end of your second stock here.


this is sometihng I'm going to say now, after reviewing some of my thoughts from earlier today:

You're lasering is fairly static. You know what I mean?? You rarely place high lasers and you don't really manipulate space as much as you could if you mixed up your timing (to throw of PS) and your spacing. You can even try placing them extremely high to bait out a power shield attempt and go from there.

Wave dashing in with a shine is risky but benificial.

You're decent at comboing but I think you should work on your wave dashing (out of shine) a lot. Although I give you credit for short hopping out when you missed or weren't comfortable attempting a wavedash. In this regard I think it is useful if you can wave dash using either shoulder button. Sometimes, if your right hand is off your left hand could be on.

Also, I think you need to work on your spacing in this match up tremendously.

A trick I really like is to shffl just outside marth's grab range to bait a dash grab. Alternatively you can space to bait dash attacks. Definitely need to have tight spacing vs his nair but once the hit box is lower you can back air his dome.

F tilt @ higher percents should not be under estimated vs his dash dance.


I think that's it for now. I guess it's pretty unorganized but I hope it helps you out.

 

[Blunted_object10]

alright well thanks for your help!

 

[omgwtfToph]

Hmm, I think your best bet is, the next time you are in a set with this Marth, while he is intensely focusing, you hand the controller to Sion. Your opponent will suddenly be struck by an onslaught of dair **** and you should win the set no problem.

 

[CHUCHUTRAIN]

lol pp moderator no life