Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[RandomLax]

NintenJoe, are you referring to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvdpZTd9sZg&feature=related

Or something similar?

Because it seems situational based on your opponent's shield timing.

 

[NintenJoe]

NintenJoe, are you referring to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvdpZTd9sZg&feature=related

Or something similar?

Because it seems situational based on your opponent's shield timing.

yeah, thats the thing. I've done it at far range though and without hitting them with the tail first. In my experience, the head had to go through the upper right hand corner of the shield.

 

[Eagleye893]

after looking at that video more closely, it appears that you can pierce the shield without scraping it as nintenjoe said.... there is nearly a whole half second between the scrape and the time it hits the shield, and the pkt tail hit the ike, not the shield.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Sine this is an Q&A what is the best way to win with Ness?

 

[Eagleye893]

just do it.... can't really explain too well... mindgames? i guess you could say that, because if you get behind you can always pull off a low percent kill if you make uber mindgame madness. but really there is no specific strategy (in my mind) that will help you to prevail more often over another. abuse good aerials could be one tip i guess, but other than that, try to keep everything in mind that you can do against your opponent.

 

[CarVac]

Actually, in that video, the Ike is being tailwhipped, and shields the tail. Then, the head pierces the shield.

 

[Gaussis]

NintenJoe, are you referring to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvdpZTd9sZg&feature=related

Or something similar?

Because it seems situational based on your opponent's shield timing.

In the video, PKT pierces the shield because of the scrape. Notice how PKT curves onto the surface of the shield before it pierces it. I don't think I've ever gotten a straight one to work unless it was at the very center of the shield (doubt this happened though). Nearly all of the shield pierces I've had all involved curving the thunder onto the opponent's shield.

This may need to be looked into but this will become drastically less effective once people start attacking the head instead of sitting and shielding it.

EDIT: I have a question. Which aerial serves better as an approach? I ask because I need some input from other Ness mains.

 

[NintenJoe]

In the video, PKT pierces the shield because of the scrape. Notice how PKT curves onto the surface of the shield before it pierces it. I don't think I've ever gotten a straight one to work unless it was at the very center of the shield (doubt this happened though). Nearly all of the shield pierces I've had all involved curving the thunder onto the opponent's shield.

This may need to be looked into but this will become drastically less effective once people start attacking the head instead of sitting and shielding it.

Exact point of contact on the shield.

EDIT: I have a question. Which aerial serves better as an approach? I ask because I need some input from other Ness mains.

Fair then aerial risen Nair against characters with decent Fairs, such as Marth.

Nair then aerial risen Fair against those with bad Fairs, such as Link or Toon Link.

 

[Eagleye893]

but is that video showing a low scrape, or is it an actual pierce..... or must you be curving it into the shield to pierce? ..... i don't know... lets just say the pkt tail right behind the head must be scraping as the pkt head hits the shield in order to pierce, which is why it can do so in the first place.... I think that's what everyone was trying to say, but there may be something different.

@Gaussis: depends on who you are approaching.... some people i would even say to approach from the ground because it's safer... characters with good range and speed that can easily out range you should be less approached and more squeeze-some-random-attack-in-whenever-you-can-find-an-opening'd.... but i say any aerial.... a sourspot bair helps a little to set up combos at lower percents, a dair can catch an opponent off guard, a nair is for quickly getting something in if you are closeby, fair is more of a steady yet sure approach, because if you are moving forward you lose quite a bit of it's range.... I'll just rank them by what i feel is best.

1. Nair and Fair are tied for me.
3. Bair
4. Dair
5. Uair

Uair is last because, even though its a good aerial, it has little range in front of or behind, and any of the aerials (except dair maybe) appear to have barely enough of a longer range and are a lot easier to hit with... this is just my opinion though. and dair is only slightly higher than uair, because if done immediately out of a short hop, people who caught on to my weird ways won't expect it, and if they airdodge or shield, i just put myself behind them and either turn around and grab them or hit them with some other attack on the ground... i like my pseudo combo of pkfire> dair> utilt. it rarely works lately though, because apparently the opponent also has the chance of landing before the dair hits and flying upwards along with the possibility of teching and the possibility of getting out of the pillar before I do anything, but i just fair if they do that.

 

[Uffe]

Fair > Nair

Nair is good, but fair is far more superior. Fair is good against a character like Marth due to his sword having a disjointed hitbox. So if Ness is able to use an attack that also has a disjointed hitbox (fair), then he's got a better chance of hitting. Nair is good for other characters that are eh in the air. Dair might be your next choice after that. I do believe that the attack covers his body. Plus, if you sourspot it, then it works somewhat like nair.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I don't really ever approach, so I hardly ever use fair compared to a lot of Ness mains.

 

[Eagleye893]

I don't really ever approach, so I hardly ever use fair compared to a lot of Ness mains.

I'll try your strategy out, because it seems like it could work very well after thinking about it.

 

[PMKNG]

for me its
Fair
Dair
Nair
Bair

idk, I usually use bair when the opponent is too close to me, and I like Dair a lot BUT depends on who im fighting. Like when I fight kirby, Dair a lot. Not sure why but it works on him a bunch.

 

[NintenJoe]

Bair is pretty much a killing move IMO

 

[Uffe]

I'll try your strategy out, because it seems like it could work very well after thinking about it.

Against characters without projectile, this can work. But characters like Fox, Falco, Wolf, Samus, Link, Toon Link, Zelda/Sheik, you'll have to approach.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I could send you some of my replays.
I mainly just sit back and short hop PK Thunders.
My favorite stage thhings are the pass through flooors, rising sour spotted Dairs from below, and sending PK thunder off-stage and down so they try to approach and grab, then bring iot through the floor and blam : D


@uffe, against most of those characters, there's a better approach/counterpick stage.
Or psi magnet...

 

[Eagleye893]

sadly, your idea of just randomly spamming pkT works against so many people... and sourspotted dair is one of the most useful things ever, because nobody expects you to go for the sourspot. and sometimes if you hit just right, you can do nearly any attack directly after hitting with the sourspot dair and get some more free percent.

and also bats XD... and yoyos...

I often get carried away using psi magnet whenever and wherever I can fit it in.... I use psi magnet to float for an instant before grabbing the ledge.... it really throws off some people, but once my opponent catches on to the insanity of psi magnet-ing every 10 seconds, I just forget about the move. my playstyle has taken an even weirder shape the more i looked into ness and gotten better with him... i feel like i'm taking the path set out for ness players and going at a 90 degree angle from the expected.... good in maybe a few ways, but terrible in so many others... if i had a recent replay of how i play, i could show you, but i've changed drastically in how i play within the duration of a month

 

[LaserBust]

How often do you guys use Usmash, Dsmash, and Dtilt? And please tell me appropriate times to use them.
These are for sure my least used moves and as of now I pretty much limit it to this..

Usmash for stage spikes, blocking projectiles/approaches, approaching.. very rarely used as approach tho.
Dsmash for high % KO's, quick "get off me move" from when oppenenent is behind me.
Dtilt never.. I really don't see this move being used in my game at all. Any time I could I use this move, Id rather Jab into grabs or something.

Thx ahead!

 

[Cacti]

The yoyos are mostly used for punishing rolls/spotdodges. Usmash should be used now and then... To punish, for damage, and stagespike.

Dsmash should be used sparingly, except for killing and to mix it up.

Dtilt should be used to trip if spaced correctly, as it leads into the bat.

I think that you're using the moves right, but try experimenting with dtilt. I've found that I can land dtilt > fsmash fairly easy after practice.

 

[Levitas]

Don't block approaches with usmash. they'll hit the yoyo, then hit you if the attack has any duration.

 

[LaserBust]

Whats the trip rate on Dtilt?

Kk Ill try to get out of that habit Levi.

 

[Pollyanna]

When I lurked the boards a year or so ago, I'm pretty sure someone found there was a sweetspot for Dtilt that trips 100% of the time.

But I've heard much more commonly that there is a 50% chance for each kick or something.

 

[Neon Ness]

Won't trip unless you hit with the edge of Ness' foot...

Like if the opponent is right up on you it won't trip at all. But the chance for a trip increases with the increased % of your enemy, I believe, as long as you hit with the edge of the foot.

 

[LaserBust]

o.O. I see, ty.

 

[Cacti]

Or you could just mash the button and end it when you see them trip... But that's rather hard.

 

[NintenJoe]

jab jab dtilt grab

my favorite close range combo. The jabs lead into a tripping dtilt more often then not

 

[LaserBust]

O.o that sounds sexay Joe. Gives meh ideas..

Edit - More questions..

Olimar *****. He ***** me hard. I go hand in hand with my clan-mates Falco, (who hes been maining since melee) then he chooses Olimar who he picked up.. a month ago, and 2stocks me every other game. I mostly just want any type of general advice on how to play this lil guy.

Specifically what bugs me is how he limits my ground game with his incredibly long grab range.

Also pikmin throw completely stops my Pk Jump from being effective by stopping the fire midway between me and him, then I fall in front of em without the safety of my fire as a shield.

Sad as it may sound, KOing isin't always easy because I have to limit myself to Ness' rather quick KO's because he loves to whistle armor/counter anything too slow. (Bat, sometimes pkt2) And considering how he ***** my ground game, grabs are sometimes hard to get.

The overall main problem though, is I just find him annoyingly hard to approach.

Ty ahead.

 

[xoxokev]

O.o that sounds sexay Joe. Gives meh ideas..

Edit - More questions..

Olimar *****. He ***** me hard. I go hand in hand with my clan-mates Falco, (who hes been maining since melee) then he chooses Olimar who he picked up.. a month ago, and 2stocks me every other game. I mostly just want any type of general advice on how to play this lil guy.

Specifically what bugs me is how he limits my ground game with his incredibly long grab range.

Also pikmin throw completely stops my Pk Jump from being effective by stopping the fire midway between me and him, then I fall in front of em without the safety of my fire as a shield.

Sad as it may sound, KOing isin't always easy because I have to limit myself to Ness' rather quick KO's because he loves to whistle armor/counter anything too slow. (Bat, sometimes pkt2) And considering how he ***** my ground game, grabs are sometimes hard to get.

The overall main problem though, is I just find him annoyingly hard to approach.

Ty ahead.

nair kills pikmin easily. use pk fire on his pikmin. try making olimar approach you instead of you approaching him all of the time. use SH dair. try to gimp whenever possible

 

[Neon Ness]

nair kills pikmin easily. use pk fire on his pikmin. try making olimar approach you instead of you approaching him all of the time. use SH dair. try to gimp whenever possible

Short, sweet, and to the point... This is pretty much what I was told to do against Olimar.

Still... Consider a secondary. Some matchups just aren't worth getting frustrated over. Offstage, all he needs to do is throw one Pikmin to eat your Thunder and there goes your stock. :/

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Offstage, all he needs to do is throw one Pikmin to eat your Thunder and there goes your stock. :/

Use Nair to kill it then recover. Don't panic and rush the thunder.

 

[CarVac]

It doesn't always work that way. He can throw the pikmin or fsmash to drop it over the edge once you start the PKT, and let the pikmin get hit by the head. It's evil.

 

[AvariceX]

It doesn't always work that way. He can throw the pikmin or fsmash to drop it over the edge once you start the PKT, and let the pikmin get hit by the head. It's evil.

Why would you be recovering from below the stage against a character who has no hope of reaching you high above the stage without gimping himself?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

That's ridiculously hard to time though.

 

[CarVac]

You will have to if you need to. Dsmash has a pretty low-angle knockback I think.

 

[Ref]

Down smashing is great.

 

[Rockmix]

If I do a Pkt2 into a Zelda's b attack (the naryu's thing) does the b attack stop me or do I hit zelda?

 

[Eagleye893]

depends.... i'll check, but i believe that the early invincibility frames will allow you to go through and hit zelda.

 

[AvariceX]

depends.... i'll check, but i believe that the early invincibility frames will allow you to go through and hit zelda.

This. If you hit during the sweetspot you'll go through it. Sourspot will lose to Nayru's Love.

 

[Rockmix]

Oh okay thanks!

 

[Coney]

haven't read the rest of the thread (sorry guys!) but my question's simple:

i wanna start using ness in tourney, but i'm still scared of the grab release stuff. i heard that EIDI works, and then later that it doesn't, it's just random.

is my goal to not get grabbed at all, or is there something i can do to prevent grab release tricksies?

my friend plays wolf, he keeps grab releasing me into fsmash :<