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Ness Video & Critique Thread

Meccs

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http://www.justin.tv/nebrawl/b/267630496
I'm in there for two games, which starts around 1:30. I need Diddy help, cause I didn't know how to handle the bananas/know what to do when I got them.
and I thought I did awful on Brinstar but, re-watching it, it wasn't all that bad, I guess. plus he's a really good Lucas.
sorry guys.
Oh and side note, LingLing has a great Ness, there's low tier dubs videos of him on that channel.
 

Eagleye893

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I thought I said something about nanner control to someone else... I'm no pro with it, but handle it like you would several other items: keep them under your control and throw them up when you don't know what to do. Only throw at the enemy if they make a dumb move, like spotdodge or something. Also, Ness' DJC item throw helps a ton in his movement and being able to approach an enemy. Do that to get in sometimes, but you have to time right for an ensured hit with something.

Who played lucas?

I've heard of lingling. He's pretty good. I've never seen vids of him... I think.
 

Meccs

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He's def the NE smasher I root for the most, he just dominates the Snakes and MKs. His Dedede and Kirby (and Ness :D) are nasty. And lol I played him first round... It wasn't pretty XD

The kid who played Lucas (I'm pretty sure that's his main) is Rach.
 

Pokemon Trainer Red

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In terms of diddy, you gotta fight fire with fire; in this case: nanners with nanners. It's a pretty tough match if you don't know the opponents gimmicks. Like Eagleye said, keep 'em under control, and when in doubt throw 'em upwards.
 

Eagleye893

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Lol wow... xD congratulations.

Also, needs more magnet and dtilt. xD
 

Eagleye893

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Eh, Barto!!! Where ya been?!?!

I must say, with those two videos you are playing VERY similar to me... Or vice versa.


A couple things though.

You were hesitant with some absorptions that would've been safe, but overall you used psimag VERY well.
Dtilt.... That's all I need to say. That first game was like how I used to go every time with dtilt. Always a trip. I say you missed a correct punish with it a couple times though... Like bat isn't the best option unless you want to fake them out. I almost always grab or utilt/ftilt/usmash/jab.

You had a good opportunity for reverse hyphen usmash in the first game... It would've been awesome.

I would normally say needs more dtilt or psimag, but you were fine. So now I say "work in pk jump!" pkjump is so useful!!! It's too pro!

One missed pkt2 opportunity, but otherwise okay.

I like your well timed airdodges to the ground. Good utilt followup and other stuff. I was always thinking of using dtilt outta that... I wonder.

GJ at avoiding all of marios stuff. See? Ness has NO trouble recovering even against some people with great ability to gimp. The ness just has to be smart. xD

You messed up a couple times where I could easily read a usmash from Mario. Be sure of your safety. Overall, you played safely aggressive, which is good. Pkjump is the most safe, aggressive approach.
 

Asa

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Mobilisq: couple things:

- use fair more, replace some of your bairs with fair, and you'll see bair killing earlier

- watch your use of pkt2, especially at higher percents. At 1:26 you should've gotten hit with a fsmash

- 0.38: eh.. don't sh pk fire unless you know it'll hit. stick with the full hopped ones

- the best momentum cancel for ness is nair i believe. use that instead of dair/airdodge

- 2:01 it would've been much smarter to have gone closer to the edge and pk thunder the stage and grab the edge

-2:10 JAB LOCKKKKKKKKKK :(

-2:33 again don't do that pkt2 when you're at such high percents

-3:10 ish: when he's in the air heckle him with pkt





Asa(ness) vs Ewic(DDD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXF3iOrpnuo
 

Eagleye893

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dang... where the heck have you been Asa? Overall, you played well for the DDD... it's apparent that you know how to play against him. I saw a couple mistakes, some leading to percent loss and others leading to positional disadvantage... but oh well... a single game normally has that type of stuff.

The DDD seemed to not know much... like why didn't he fthrow or bthrow when he got you near the ledge with the CG? It worked to your advantage, for sure.

I liked that one spike on him when he tried to suck you in... pretty cool

good spacing of the fire. keep that up.

Try to work in PKjump. I've theorized that it helps the DDD matchup a lot if used properly.
 

Lord Chair

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Tis straightforward answer to straightforward question. If he were to ask why exactly I may or may not give a rather more elaborate reply.

He didn't.

Hence, lack of general kindness.
 

kennypu

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Tis straightforward answer to straightforward question. If he were to ask why exactly I may or may not give a rather more elaborate reply.

He didn't.

Hence, lack of general kindness.
fair enough.

anyways, I don't think I posted this yet. the 2nd match should be a bit of a laugh for you guys, but is irrelevant (it's diddy).

HSI 2010 kennypu (Ness) vs DEHF (Falco): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mgIKsIXHy0
 

AvariceX

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So all that stuff about me not playing Ness anymore.....












..... I lied >_>

APEX VIDEOS!!!!

(keep in mind this was the first time I played the game in 3 months >.> also watching these videos again I was very visibly nervous)

AvariceX :pikachu2: vs Mister E :pikachu2: 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypl6ne2dP_M
AvariceX :ness2: vs Mister E :pikachu2: 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1YgNXnV6AE
AvariceX :ness2: vs Mister E :pikachu2: 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-_Bwx4_GXc

AvariceX :pikachu2: vs Suinoko :diddy: 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_qML3saQuQ
AvariceX :ness2: vs Suinoko :diddy: 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2RZ0cryBik (I have never been 3-stocked on Brinstar before by anyone)


AvariceX :pikachu2: vs TeeVee :rob: 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbd0BHCugB8
AvariceX :ness2: vs TeeVee :wario: 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoTr0tKAM

AvariceX :ness2: vs RAIN :metaknight: 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx95_SKX3B4
AvariceX :ness2: vs RAIN :metaknight: 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0774UAojhq4
 

Neon Ness

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I've seen way too much Brinstar in one day lol.

That set with Mr. E was so good. About midway through the 2nd match you just started reading him really well and made a lot of good choices. One thing, and it's nitpicky, but there were times he would full hop towards you and and do a descending fair, I think you could have shieldgrabbed him or punished in some other way. I think he also started autopilot spotdodging after certain attacks which is YoYo fodder. Great set overall though. Makes me wish I had talent in this game.

I only watched the 2nd match vs. TV but honestly I thought you had him. :l Too bad, really close.

Rain is a monster.
 

AvariceX

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Thanks Neon =).

I've always had this problem where I don't play nearly enough between tourneys and I never play properly until really late in the tourney (or after the tourney altogether), and now that I've decided to start practicing regularly my Wii can no longer read my Brawl disc -_-.

Rain is awesome, very friendly, one of the most entertaining players in this game, and he showed us all some stuff we had never seen before.
 

Eagleye893

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Kk averice...

I love the pkjump you threw in the first game on rain. I saw some problems though.

--psimag is nearly never good for onstage usage against mk... You'll get annihilated.
--know when to and when not to psimag stall offstage. I saw one that you allowed rain to rush over by not dropping to the stage/ledge. Otherwise, well used.
--I saw several opportunities for a uair following nair. Don't forget uair. It is great for landing.
--FH aerials a little more. Just my preference.
--DON'T TAKE MK TO DELFINO!!!! it seems good, but it isn't. The water can be used against you, like rain did with dair. If you do pick delfino, you've got stuff to worry about (gr cg, dair on water parts for gimping you, uair and others from below main stage, walls causing problems).
--about nado... You need to SDI a million. I saw you do it, but you didn't capitalize on the instant you jumped out. You need to react to that and nair or something to get a hit off on MK.
--something else.

Yeah.

I'll say stuff about dajay in a while.
 

Dajayman

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--DON'T TAKE MK TO DELFINO!!!! it seems good, but it isn't. The water can be used against you, like rain did with dair. If you do pick delfino, you've got stuff to worry about (gr cg, dair on water parts for gimping you, uair and others from below main stage, walls causing problems).
Considering Ness' other good cp is Brinstar, which is one of MK's best stages, he's basically choosing the best of two evils. Although as a personal preference I'd take MK to Brinstar because I prefer Ness' Brinstar tricks over his Delfino tricks so I feel I'd have more of a chance at Brinstar.
 

AvariceX

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Considering Ness' other good cp is Brinstar, which is one of MK's best stages, he's basically choosing the best of two evils. Although as a personal preference I'd take MK to Brinstar because I prefer Ness' Brinstar tricks over his Delfino tricks so I feel I'd have more of a chance at Brinstar.
Rain banned Brinstar; the Japanese really don't like that stage. My next choice was just Battlefield.
 

Roguemagus

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Was there some strategy in using Magnet at the beginning or were you just taunting?
 

AvariceX

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Was there some strategy in using Magnet at the beginning or were you just taunting?
Which video? I don't really taunt, could have been using it as some kind of bait though, but like I've said I don't play enough and honestly I'm not that good at the game for it. My reaction speed, techskill, and ability to quickly choose the correct response to a situation are very poor, while I honestly believe my ability to analyze an opponent is amongst some of the best, but that alone is not nearly enough to win.
 

Eagleye893

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Why not smashville? Go neutral! Keep it even with the most obviously neutral stage. (why does MK prevail on this stage? I don't see any reason that MK would be greatly favored...)

Or PS1... It's not that bad of a stage, IMO. (maybe offstage is bad... maybe two parts are bad... IDK)


Also, I feel delfino is worse... that's just me though. I know Brinstar better, as do all other ness mains. I <3 PSImag wind-ing people into the lava over and over again... xD it takes so much skill, but it's so worth it!
 

Dajayman

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I could never get the PSI Magnet wind-spike down at Brinstar, I just take advantage of PKFing the middle part of the stage or PKFing the side pillars in edgeguarding situations. I especially like PKFing the middle part of the stage, as you can see in my one video against a Marth, to put me in an advatgeous PKTing postition as they try to cross the gap. I will get the wind-spike down though, who does it work well against and in what situations?

There are just some parts of SV that MK can take advantage, like when the platform is all the way to the left/right and you're on the platform. That's a free upb low percent kill opportunity.
I like taking MKs to FD or BF, depending on which stage I'm feeling, or I'll take them to Brinstar if I'm feeling ballsy and feel I can take advantage of the stage better then them, maybe Delfino too.

PS1, idk. Not that familiar with it. I'm not that into PS1 because it's just a dumb, boring stage with the fire/rock stage transformation camping.
 

AvariceX

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Why not smashville? Go neutral! Keep it even with the most obviously neutral stage. (why does MK prevail on this stage? I don't see any reason that MK would be greatly favored...)

Or PS1... It's not that bad of a stage, IMO. (maybe offstage is bad... maybe two parts are bad... IDK)


Also, I feel delfino is worse... that's just me though. I know Brinstar better, as do all other ness mains. I <3 PSImag wind-ing people into the lava over and over again... xD it takes so much skill, but it's so worth it!
Generally on stages with platforms the best place to be is somewhere under that platform, and MK has much better mobility to make use of the moving platform. I've always felt Battlefield was the best neutral to fight MK on (between FD, BF, and SV, since YS and LC will always be stage struck). PS1 is pretty good for Ness, but some transitions definitely favor MK. Other viable choice would have been Pictochat.
 

Eagleye893

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I could never get the PSI Magnet wind-spike down at Brinstar, I just take advantage of PKFing the middle part of the stage or PKFing the side pillars in edgeguarding situations. I especially like PKFing the middle part of the stage, as you can see in my one video against a Marth, to put me in an advatgeous PKTing postition as they try to cross the gap. I will get the wind-spike down though, who does it work well against and in what situations?

... neither did I.... I just keep missing on wifi because I can't get it up fast enough.
I like burning the middle also... but I say dtilt = better, especially when luring opponents into it.


There are just some parts of SV that MK can take advantage, like when the platform is all the way to the left/right and you're on the platform. That's a free upb low percent kill opportunity.

Knowing that, don't stay on the platform too long. Boom, done.
Otherwise, I see little extreme advantage.... sure MK has the ability to land up on that platform from grounded upb and nado, but It isn't that significant...


I like taking MKs to FD or BF, depending on which stage I'm feeling, or I'll take them to Brinstar if I'm feeling ballsy and feel I can take advantage of the stage better then them, maybe Delfino too.

Brinstar is always my first pick... then either PS1, SV, Delfino, or change to Kirby, depending on the character I'm facing. each CP I have covers at least one part of my game. (Brinstar for PKfire and partly PKjump, but only really on a small area of the stage; PS1 for the overall equality, the wall, the windmill, and just enough platform on main portion of stage... also I can get lucky and get broken out of my opponent's grab chains; SV for flat and platform... also PKjump is better because of how little the platform interferes; Delfino for spikes and those who can't CG... Fthrow kills FTW!!)

PS1, idk. Not that familiar with it. I'm not that into PS1 because it's just a dumb, boring stage with the fire/rock stage transformation camping.
PKT on the rock/fire transformations. It's very nice. It gives you a force to make your opponent approach, you get a couple of jab lock/dtilt lock positions, you get saved by windmill and can make some jab lock combos from it if you know what you're doing... basically I use the few solid walls that are in the stage for setting up combos and getting a good camp on my opponent, while the more wide open areas I use for slowly approaching for attack with PKfire and FH aerials. SH aerials aren't as great because there are lots of curvy ground stuffs.

Maybe it's just me, since I play chess, but I like to gain the tempo (chess term) above my opponent and use that to force him in staying that little bit off/behind.

Bold is answer, then this thing...
 

Dajayman

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Knowing that, don't stay on the platform too long. Boom, done.

Metaknight can see that you will try to stay on the platform as short as possible and punish that instead. You left yourself open, chess master Eagleye.

PKT on the rock/fire transformations. It's very nice. It gives you a force to make your opponent approach, you get a couple of jab lock/dtilt lock positions, you get saved by windmill and can make some jab lock combos from it if you know what you're doing... basically I use the few solid walls that are in the stage for setting up combos and getting a good camp on my opponent, while the more wide open areas I use for slowly approaching for attack with PKfire and FH aerials. SH aerials aren't as great because there are lots of curvy ground stuffs.

My hatred of PS1 was further fueled by a guerrilla-style Sonic player. Those transformations were just brutal, Sonic was able to dtilt and side/down b under the windmill which meant his movement wasn't consticted and Sonic covered my options well in the rock transformation when I had to approach due to the lead he was in.

But then I took him to Brinstar and just ***** him with the help of the stage. The Sonic player, who was actually a pretty smart guy, told me he's going to ban Brinstar against Ness from now on. :3
Answers are in bold.
 

Eagleye893

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I didn't say as short as possible... I just said not too long...
If being on the platform at all is a bad idea, don't use it too often, besides to punish MK or a momentary retreat (retreat, AKA don't let the MK under you or extremely close to you, giving you the opportunity to regroup your thoughts).

Perfect shield more against sonic then.... Perfect shielding annihilates him.
Dtilt against sonic... it isn't bad. Dtilt can essentially stop the rolling, and if they are coming from above, it isn't too difficult to just nair out of your dtilt if you had a bad read.
 
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