Ness vs. Zelda

[ViceGrip]

haha clinton, you sound so vengeful. I've only had the balloon gimp me once but I agree, they must be destroyed. Other than rarely gimping ness they do get in the way of thunder sometimes just in general. However you should use the ballon to regenerate your other moves. I'd recommend popping it with thunder on purpose if the enemy just died and you have an opportunity.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

momentum cancelling on a ballon as Zelda is pure awesomeness......

anyway, earlier someone mentioned that if pkt is reflected Ness can absorb it back....so does that mean when its reflected he instantly stops like the pkt got destroyed?

 

[Kyronexx]

Hmm i play 2 Zelda players quite often. to me i do not think zelda has much of an approach at all( certain stages can give her more options) on ness. If she stays away she can only attack with her fire ball which gets absorbed and she can not come in from the air because of a well spaced f-air. if she approaches from the ground shield to grab : / i have made both players( i have played other zeldas its the same song and dance) hurt there heads because they have to think of a way to approach. I usually just stand there and wait for them to make a move and just read them after that, usually resulting in a 1 stock lead then i play run away and try to get some damage in every now and then and just stall them out or just take all there stocks which ever comes first.

Then on an other note i dont feel comfortable at all getting cornered by her, i dont know if you guys have ever experienced that pressure as well. when that happens i usually feel like the tables have turned. When cornered it just seems like her smash attacks have a bigger range. Her F-smash can be well spaced and has a lot of priority over ness' ground game the only thing that has range is the bat and if u try that you will get grabbed or dash-U-smashed. Jumping diagonally results in a U-smash as well. as for dbl jumping if you dbl jump over her your going to have to come down sometime, depending how you do a good Zelda player will read you and you will be punished.

When it comes to stages in every circumstance I just say no to yoshi Isle that place is murder , i hate that stage with a passion never let anyone take you there. And me personally i try and stay away from Pokemon stages as well. Other than that the standard starting stages are Great for both Zelda and Ness depending on how the players play of course. Meaning ether player could have leverage over the other. again me personally i say the favor is always in Ness' in this match up but not by much.

When it comes to counter picks I say Frigate can be quite annoying at times. for instance only one side of the stage can be grabbed at times so a poorly aimed pk2 can cost you a stock. the stage flipping can screw up your recover at times. Or maybe you were on the ground chasing a airborne Zelda with pkt when the stage flips. oh and my favorite (this one actually cost me a game,we were both at 1 stock and she was 120 and i had a fresh stock) is when your recovering off the right side and a random platform swoops in at blazing speed and eats your pkt leaving you to die.... so please be vary careful on this ******* stage. Looking at the other counter picks i really dont see much hassle ( most of the stages still go in Ness' favor in my opinion) of course if they take you to Yoshi Isle prepare for a sharky Zelda playing uber defensively and just waiting to use her U-smash.

All in all I say Ness has just a slight edge on Zelda but just a slight one. This match up still is pretty difficult and close at times. I had agreed at 50 - 50 at one time but now i see it as a 55 - 45.

 

[Eagleye893]

momentum cancelling on a ballon as Zelda is pure awesomeness......

anyway, earlier someone mentioned that if pkt is reflected Ness can absorb it back....so does that mean when its reflected he instantly stops like the pkt got destroyed?

Its possible, but very time restrictive. If the Zelda is far away, you can have it so that it deflects slightly upward back at you, then jump and psimag. Problem with that is pkt might disappear before then or you might not be quick enough.

It's possible, but highly unlikely for a majority of ness mains. Once pkt is reflected, you either have ground lag time or dropping into ground lag time... Or the special stuff in between. If you can time it so you fall and "cancel" your pkt lag animations, you can fairly easily absorb it back if deflected correctly. This is more in theory, but judging by pkt speed and ness' jump heights, you should reach just in time.

 

[ViceGrip]

someone should actually test this, not just theorize- it wouldn't take very long to confirm/disprove this idea. I have no friends so i can't for awhile XD.

 

[Eagleye893]

someone should actually test this, not just theorize- it wouldn't take very long to confirm/disprove this idea. I have no friends so i can't for ahwile XD.

wifi?!?!?!?

you can be the zelda! XD

I need to get my brain out of "completely dead" state so that i can study for AP US history final.

 

[ViceGrip]

haha good point. yea perhaps next week if no one's done it by then.

 

[oOTjayOo]

Lmfao i got gimped by Shy Guys not to long ago. My pk thunder hit it. Epic. I think Ness vs Zelda is 60 40 Zelda on YI period tho. That Stage Messes over ness many more ways than it does zelda.

 

[Uffe]

I could possibly try to momentum cancel on the balloon this week or weekend. I'll need to see how to momentum cancel with Zelda, though. I mean, I think I can do it with Ness, or I'm just doing really good DI or my opponents are using stale moves, but yeah, I don't think I've ever actually momentum canceled.

 

[xoxokev]

momentum canceling on a balloon? i dont get it...

also, you're better off absorbing a reflected pk fire pillar... i wouldn't go out of my way to try and absorb a reflected pkt, it's not very practical

don't forget to magnet cancel! :D

 

[_clinton]

I think it might be harder to absorb a pillar with Zelda right by you casting NL as well, but that is just me.

 

[HylianMageAuree]

Hey guys, just posting to let you know I'm available to play today (right now).
I know it's WiFi, but it'll help us get at least a general view on match-up. :3 Just PM me if you're interested.

 

[_clinton]

I can play

 

[xoxokev]

I think it might be harder to absorb a pillar with Zelda right by you casting NL as well, but that is just me.

hmm youre probably right, but probably wouldnt be using NL, if i were a zelda i'd just go for a smash attack or grab or something......... idk, it's just something i've seen in videos, i forgot whose... but it seemed to work well

 

[_clinton]

No, I mean it would be hard to absorb a freshly reflected pillar and not get hit at the same time. Ness' magnet isn't like Lucas', it sucks (because Lucas can absorb a pillar just fine and avoid being countered).

 

[Lythium]

Former Zelda main, so I guess I'll give my two cents.

Zelda is weak at her diagonals (if that makes sense), so d-tilt or SH f-air are decent options once you get in. Also, if you get Zelda into the air, use it to your advantage. Zelda's aerials are downright awful, and she has almost no options in the air. You can juggle her forever because she's so **** big.

Some Zelda players will also transform into Sheik given the chance and transform back to refresh their moves, so watch your spacing if that happens.

That's all I have at the moment.

Spoiler

I'm terrible at this.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Ohh the match-up of my two mains finally.

From what i can tell from playing both sides of the match-up it isn't to bad either way. If anything i'd say it is AT WORST its 60:40 Ness.

A few notes

-If ness is in the air above her, don't try to dair or airdodge through her, for usmash will destroy that stat, as well zelda's like to force air dodges by short hopping uairs when characters are above them, so be mindful of that. Zeldas uair also kills really low.

- Ness best stratagy is to keep her in the air, for her air game isn't the best, and her floaty nature allows her to be juggled easily. Use uthrows a lot then try to keep her up there.

-Ness shouldn't try to approach her if they don't have to for she is one of the best defensive characters.

-Her fsmash has little cool down lag, so don't be to brash about attacking if you shield it.

-Dins fire is still a potent tool to deal with. Don't underestimate its abilities.

Zelda
-Ness Pk fire can always be jumped out of, it is easy with zelda because of how floaty she is.

-At higher percents be weary of ness bthrow for it will kill you quicker than it does most characters.

-if ness is juggling you with pkthunder, either nayrus it at a safe height, or try to Farore wind down onto the stage.

 

[kennypu]

hey guys, I've been absent for a while -.-. been busy, catching up on stuff now though.

Anyways on topic:
I fight a very good zelda every time I go to a tourney, DarkMusician. a good zelda is very hard as they space really well, and know how to rack up those damages quickly. Here are some pointers:

- use your pk thunder a LOT. even with the neutral b, if you know how to circle your pkt around them, they will easily get hit by the pk thunder. Just make sure you are at a safe distance from them, as they can easily punish you.

- obviously, but important none the less: if it is a campy style zelda, don't be afraid to absorb those fires, a lot of healing for you.

- nairs and fairs are your best friend. They will get past almost all of her moves if used correctly.

- make sure to space her out. zelda players can be spacy too, but if you get foolishly aggresive, they will punish you easily; those grab-release->dsmash hurts.

- if they are on a platform GO AFTER THEM!! They can't do anything at all, and it makes them an easy target.

- unless you are quite sure it will hit, try not to go for the meteor spike on them. They can easily meteor you instead, and it hurts. instead, use your pkt for the stage spike :D. almost absolute guarantee kill as they can't recover.

thats about it for now. Hopefully some stuff I put down is useful to some people >.<

 

[Darkmusician]

hey guys, I've been absent for a while -.-. been busy, catching up on stuff now though.

Anyways on topic:
I fight a very good zelda every time I go to a tourney, DarkMusician. a good zelda is very hard as they space really well, and know how to rack up those damages quickly. Here are some pointers:

- use your pk thunder a LOT. even with the neutral b, if you know how to circle your pkt around them, they will easily get hit by the pk thunder. Just make sure you are at a safe distance from them, as they can easily punish you.

- obviously, but important none the less: if it is a campy style zelda, don't be afraid to absorb those fires, a lot of healing for you.

- nairs and fairs are your best friend. They will get past almost all of her moves if used correctly.

- make sure to space her out. zelda players can be spacy too, but if you get foolishly aggresive, they will punish you easily; those grab-release->dsmash hurts.

- if they are on a platform GO AFTER THEM!! They can't do anything at all, and it makes them an easy target.

- unless you are quite sure it will hit, try not to go for the meteor spike on them. They can easily meteor you instead, and it hurts. instead, use your pkt for the stage spike :D. almost absolute guarantee kill as they can't recover.

thats about it for now. Hopefully some stuff I put down is useful to some people >.<

Kenny!!! :D

Yeah Zelda can't really defend herself for long when she's standing/shielding on a platform. She likes to bring the fight to those on a platform from below.

 

[oOTjayOo]

I played 3 Zeldas now in the month. Ven Aero Kaze and Tufi. They have showed me its not good to ever be above zelda. When shes on the ground or in the air. Tufi uses Nayrus Love. If i hit him with pk fire. Nayrus love leaves zeldas head open. Strike her head. With Dair or Fair it at high angle. Ven has rushed me down with Zelda. Many open mistakes I saw. Like things that could have been punished. So i think zelda wont ever approch Ness. We approch them.