Ness

[Xiivi]

Discuss all information pertaining to Ness in this thread.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Ness needs to be legend!

 

[Nido]

If that grab release bull**** is still there I'll rage so hard
And please, PLEASE, make recovering easier

 

[Sunnysunny]

Wasn't Ness able to teleport in his original game?
Give Ness a teleport up-b thats slower then mewtwo's but quicker then zelda's and let Lucas keep his current one.

 

[Johnknight1]

Ness (and Lucas) need the same hitstun as everyone else. Adding that unnecessary content in Brawl was not just a waste of time, it made both characters much worse.

While we're at it, make Ness' PK Thunder launch him about 3-4 times as far (I'm not joking), have his helpless state afterwards not as long. Actually, get ride of it entirely, minus 1-5 frames. Quite frankly, as it is, PK Thunder is risky. So, to counter its' riskiness, give it a giant reward.

Also, give Ness more grab range, make his aerials all combo better, give him his Smash 64/Project M down smash, make PK Fire not go downward (and awful), make PK Flash go much farther much more quickly, give his Yo-Yo a tad more range, make his down tilt either a new move or go farther, and give his down B the pre and post lag of a shine.

Ness needs to be legend!

Pretty much if what I said happened, Ness would be a legend. FUZZ PICKLES SHALL RULE THE EARTH, AND THE ALIENS WILL BE BOUND TO LEAVE!!!

 

[Jockmaster]

I think he flat out needs a new up b. You can't efficiently recover with pkt

 

[Curious Villager]

I think he flat out needs a new up b. You can't efficiently recover with pkt

How about making his PK Thunder like Lucario's Up-B except it goes slower, it electrifies thus it does actual damage.

AKA What I'm saying is let Ness himself be that PK Thunder bold/ball/dragon/worm/fish/whatever it is in order to recover in the stage. It would last less longer though. And it would differentiate him from Lucas too. Unless they let Lucas do this instead.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Jock
That's why I suggested that Ness' PK Thunder recovery get ride of the landing lag (to allow for awesome PK Thunder 1 combos).

That and make Ness go 2-4 times farther in PK Thunder 1.

If PK Thunder 1 goes further and you don't have as much landing lag, the risk/reward of the move will be much more balanced.

 

[BSP]

Way back when, someone pitched an idea for Ness' recovery. They suggested changing it to PSI Teleport. When you activiate the UpB, Ness would disappear, travel about half of Brawl's PKT2 distance in whichever direction you're holding, then reappear and continue travelling, causing (fire? i think the teleport burns them if they fail) damage to anyone in his path.

 

[Jockmaster]

No I meant the concept of a recovery that:
1) Requires an interceptable projectile
2) Travels in a perfectly linear pattern
3) Takes that long to activate
And 4) Telegraphs it's exact direction to the defender

cannot be usable in high-level play. Increasing the distance and reducing landing lag solves none of those issues.

I like the idea of a teleport

 

[GoofBall]

I think it's Melee where he appears in the opening and leave a fire-trail behind him as he arrives through a wormhole, correct? Maybe it could have a misfire attribute like Luigi where he goes much further but has more lag with a landing like his Brawl entrance burnt to a crisp and shaking it off.

And less lag for PK Fire and Magnet!

 

[bubbaking]

Wasn't Ness able to teleport in his original game?
Give Ness a teleport up-b thats slower then mewtwo's but quicker then zelda's and let Lucas keep his current one.

But Ness couldn't do anything even remotely similar to teleporting in his Earthbound game, the very source of his material in Smash. The teleporting in 64 was from a glitch. Other chars could do it too.

 

[Sunnysunny]

But Ness couldn't do anything even remotely similar to teleporting in his Earthbound game, the very source of his material in Smash. The teleporting in 64 was from a glitch. Other chars could do it too.

Pardon? Have you played Earthbound before?

http://earthbound.wikia.com/wiki/Teleport

Lol.
It was even in the intro to melee. It was a PSI ability he used to go from town to town. Ness would run a short distance in front of him, a portal would appear, and he'd reappear in a totally diffrent area. Like a wormhole.

He even gets a stronger ability later that let him teleport even without the running start called the Teleport Tornado.

 

[bubbaking]

Pardon? Have you played Earthbound before?

http://earthbound.wikia.com/wiki/Teleport

Lol.
It was even in the intro to melee. It was a PSI ability he used to go from town to town. Ness would run a short distance in front of him, a portal would appear, and he'd reappear in a totally diffrent area. Like a wormhole.

He even gets a stronger ability later that let him teleport even without the running start called the Teleport Tornado.

Oh, my bad, that's what that was? I never played the game, but I watched someone do that. Didn't realize it was teleporting. Since they always needed to be running first, I assumed it had something or other to do with acceleration and stuff, kinda like Back to the Future. Probably would have helped if I'd watched it in English... -_- Even so, how would one recreate that in Smash?

Ness (and Lucas) need the same hitstun as everyone else. Adding that unnecessary content in Brawl was not just a waste of time, it made both characters much worse.

While we're at it, make Ness' PK Thunder launch him about 3-4 times as far (I'm not joking), have his helpless state afterwards not as long. Actually, get ride of it entirely, minus 1-5 frames. Quite frankly, as it is, PK Thunder is risky. So, to counter its' riskiness, give it a giant reward.

Also, give Ness more grab range, make his aerials all combo better, give him his Smash 64/Project M down smash, make PK Fire not go downward (and awful), make PK Flash go much farther much more quickly, give his Yo-Yo a tad more range, make his down tilt either a new move or go farther, and give his down B the pre and post lag of a shine.

Pretty much if what I said happened, Ness would be a legend. FUZZ PICKLES SHALL RULE THE EARTH, AND THE ALIENS WILL BE BOUND TO LEAVE!!!

Dang, Ness will have his cake and eat it too. Tbh, I kinda like how Ness's PK Fire goes downwards. You can use it while above the enemy to cover your descent, especially since Ness tends to floating everywhere with those DJ's.

give his down B the pre and post lag of a shine.

Pre and post lag? .......0? O_o

 

[yoshi8984]

Ah, I love using Ness... but I'd like some things changed about him.

He needs that Grab Release issue gone.

I'd like his attacks to have more range.

He needs a safer recovery.

Less lag on some moves.

A better ground game.

And this is kind of a wacky idea, but maybe give him the ability to levitate? (kinda like Peach's Float) XD

Oh I also want his Fair to do some decent shield damage. =P

Also, am I the only one I didn't like Ness could DJC with his aerials? I honestly preferred him being able to DJC only with his Specials and Item Throws. =P

@Bubbaking: I think Pre lag means Start-up time and post lag is Cooldown.

 

[bubbaking]

To fix all this grab release nonsense, all they have to do is alter the PK kids' release animations so that they're on the same page as everyone else. In all honest, this is not that hard!

Also, am I the only one I didn't like Ness could DJC with his aerials? I honestly preferred him being able to DJC only with his Specials and Item Throws. =P

Well, in P:M, you get to choose when Ness DJC's. Allows for flexibility and adaptability to different players' playstyles.

@Bubbaking: I think Pre lag means Start-up time and post lag is Cooldown.

I know that, lolz, but assuming that he was talking about the Spacies' melee shines, they had a start-up and cool-down of 0 frames, since the move came out on frame 1 and was JC'able.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Here's an idea, and bear with me on this:

Why not replace one of his moves for a move he actually uses in Earthbound, like trading off PK Thunder, or PSI Magnet for PSI Rockin or PSI Healing. As he is, he's still a unique character, but his B Attacks - in my opinion - do not represent his character as well as PSI Rockin or Healing, or anything else Ness actually learns. His only B move that he does learn in Earthbound is PK Flash (don't remember if it's supposed to be called "PSI Flash"). That's just my nitpick.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, I think most stuff, if not everything, was PSI instead of PK. PK just makes more sense logically (PshychoKinetic). Not sure what PSI stands for, but I guess it could be an alteration of the term "psy" which is kinda short for psychic. The problem with something like PSI healing is that it wouldn't do anything. In the games, they simply removed status ailments, something that doesn't exist in Smash. Altering them to heal damage automatically would make them broken attacks, even if they were put on bad chars. PSI Magnet is a good alternate to this. Besides, PSI Magnet was present in Earthbound, just not in Ness.

It can just be said that Ness is displaying abilities from multiple chars in that game, since he is the only representative of Earthbound in Smash. In this respect, it is ok that his only true move in his special moveset is PK Flash because the others come from Paula and Poo. This could always be remedied by making more Earthbound characters playable in the next Smash, of course. Besides, it's not inconceivable that all the kids could actually use some shared PSI powers. For instance, Poo was capable of learning a lot of attacks that Ness and Paula learned.

tl;dr - For the most part, the people upset with Ness's special moves are the hardcore Earthbound enthusiasts who really value the accuracy of everything taken from the source material. However, for the rest of us, other than the practical failures of the moves in Brawl, there isn't really much of a problem, although variation to bring about something fresh is always appreciated.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

In the Japanese version, they were all PK. In the American release, PK was changed to PSI. Why? I don't know. They should definitely improve Ness though...

 

[kancon1]

Guys, first off, Ness's strongest move is his thundersmash,(which obviously requires PK Thunder) and even if he didn't learn it in the series, It's a really great move. You can hit an opponent from anywhere with it, and you can almost OHKO an opponent with thundersmash. Although, to equal things out on the battlefield, there is a state of uselessness while you use PK thunder. PK thunder is one of the things that I think makes Ness great. I'd rather focus on other things such as making Ness's stomp easier, like in SSB64 (but I guess that's not much of a big deal...)

 

[bubbaking]

Thundersmash? O_o I'm assuming you're referring to the thunderjacket, meaning you're trolling or...not too experienced, I guess. It's a cool glitch, but I highly doubt they'd bring such a concept back (on purpose). His stomp doesn't have to be SSB 64/P:M status, tbh. Ganon's and Falcon's stomps also have that delay on them and they work just fine. Ness's stomp just needs a more workable hitbox.

 

[kisamefishfries]

You know I wouldn't mind an actual spell caster... Someone made a mod for Kratos Aurin and his down B was a charge at first it would cast fireball then over time the charge would castSplash, then finally judgement. Obviously sitting like a duck has its obvious flaws but Judgement was a huge pay off in a good range and high damage (not a lot of knockback though). Ness should have a skill like this. Where you charge for more strength or even a set cast time for a non-changing special. If your telling me a casting time of 3 seconds wouldn't be worth a PSI meteorite then I don't know what would be. In 1v1 its almost useless, unless you knock them away. But in 2v2 these skills are godly.

 

[bubbaking]

That could work... What was "Splash?" Are these attacks from Mother?

 

[yoshi8984]

Thundersmash? O_o

I think he means PKT2.

Anyways, I think that Ness could be given the power to levitate (like Peach's float) but maybe vertically. And also have the ability to wall jump. That way if he's stuck in a pit where he can't use PKT2 (since the thunder would hit the wall) he could get out this way. Oh and also make him not helpless if the PKT fails to hit Ness, like in Brawl Minus. XP

Also Back Throw needs to be more powerful. KILL AT 50% XD

 

[Diddy Kong]

I´d really like it if Ness would be more true to his EarthBound character to. Give him some more attacks involving his Yo-Yo and Bat (on tilts and aerials for example) and PK attacks he actually used himself as PK Teleport for Up B, and PK Rockin for B while Side B becomes PK Flash (that´d be similar in animation to PK Fire is now, but with random effects as tripping, shield breaking ect. plus a charge function) and of coarse fixing his grab release and he´d be much better already I think. Also, it´d be mad cool if they could put in Mortal Damage as a passive sort of ability of Ness, giving him light super armour effect or decreased knockback on moves that´d normally kill him at a given %. Can´t see that happening but oh well, just throwing out ideas.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Not important, but I remember that the Nintendo Power Player's Guide had a name for every attack that the characters had and used in Melee. Here is Nees'.

Weak Attacks

1-2-3: Hook, Straight, Kick

Strong Attacks

Upward: Push Up
Forward: Short Kick
Downward: Squat Kick

SMASH ATTACKS:

Upward: Around the World
Forward: Home Run Swing
Downward: Walk the Dog

Dash Attack: PK Shove

Aerial Attacks:

Center: Ness Spin
Front: Flying PK Shove
Back: PK Drop Kick
Up: Jumping Headbutt
Down: Meteor Kick

Special Attacks

Standard B: PK Flash
Foward B: PK Fire
Upward B: PK Thunder
Downward B: PSI Magnet

Grapples and Throw Downs

Pummel: Captive Headbutt
Front: PK Throw
Back: Reverse PK Throw
Up: Cowboy PK Throw
Down: PK Inferno

Now, for something else.

 

[Gene]

I´d really like it if Ness would be more true to his EarthBound character to. Give him some more attacks involving his Yo-Yo and Bat (on tilts and aerials for example) and PK attacks he actually used himself as PK Teleport for Up B, and PK Rockin for B while Side B becomes PK Flash (that´d be similar in animation to PK Fire is now, but with random effects as tripping, shield breaking ect. plus a charge function) and of coarse fixing his grab release and he´d be much better already I think. Also, it´d be mad cool if they could put in Mortal Damage as a passive sort of ability of Ness, giving him light super armour effect or decreased knockback on moves that´d normally kill him at a given %. Can´t see that happening but oh well, just throwing out ideas.

I would really love this for Ness. I would also love a more accurate version of the Onett stage. If not then I'll be fine with a new Earthbound stage like the Devil's Machine.

 

[mrbrawl]

i think it would be sweet if ness had pk rocking as his final smash

 

[Ghirahilda]

I agree with some people here. Ness really needs moves that HE uses, and not borrowed ones. This will make him more...uh...original!!!

 

[Claire Diviner]

Well, as is, Ness is pretty original as far as Smash Bros. is concerned. It's just that he's using moves he never really used at all in Mother 2. The only one who isn't original is Lucas; that Luigified brat needs a near full overhaul in his moves.

If Ness' PK Thunder is kept, one thing I think they should do is have the projectile phase through objects (namely, opponents), so that they can't just willingly jump into the PK Thunder 1 projectile and negate the recovery as easily. Just food for thought.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Well, as is, Ness is pretty original as far as Smash Bros. is concerned. It's just that he's using moves he never really used at all in Mother 2. The only one who isn't original is Lucas; that Luigified brat needs a near full overhaul in his moves.

If Ness' PK Thunder is kept, one thing I think they should do is have the projectile phase through objects (namely, opponents), so that they can't just willingly jump into the PK Thunder 1 projectile and negate the recovery as easily. Just food for thought.

Sorry, it's because I can't find the correct world do discribe that.

But yeah, Ness's recovery really need more implements., even if he could use it again after hiting someone in air. He cab be on helpless state only after making PKT2, but if hit something else before him, he coul use it again.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I agree with some people here. Ness really needs moves that HE uses, and not borrowed ones. This will make him more...uh...original!!!

The problem is, Ness rarely uses any offensive PSI in Earthbound - he's more of a support/medic type character in terms of the PSI he uses(Lucas and Ninten are the same), so I don't begrudge Sakurai for having Ness use moves he didn't originally.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

The problem is, Ness rarely uses any offensive PSI in Earthbound - he's more of a support/medic type character in terms of the PSI he uses(Lucas and Ninten are the same), so I don't begrudge Sakurai for having Ness use moves he didn't originally.

So... Ness is a White Mage?

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

He practically is lol...

I hope Ness and Lucas both stay in smash, but their recoveries definitely need to be improved, and Lucas should be more... like Lucas I guess, he uses PK Love a lot but it should be a final smash imo, or him calling a Drago army would be amazing.

Ness should call Poo, Paula, and Jeff and they start launching PK Starstorm and bottlerockets all over the map, find someway to represent them more, because Mother wouldn't be mother without the partners.

 

[pokémoneinstein]

I can't believe how many people are calling for a new recovery move. PK Thunder really isn't that difficult, folks.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

You don't get the point, it's not that it's difficult, it's the fact that it's not reliable.

 

[bubbaking]

I can't believe how many people are calling for a new recovery move. PK Thunder really isn't that difficult, folks.

PKT is easy to use. That doesn't stop it from being one of the worst recoveries on the face of the planet. Anyone can run into or shoot Ness's PKT and it's removed immediately. Even if you fail, you can just let PKT2 hit you and Ness probably won't make it to the ledge due to hitlag and the fact that he was probably spacing his recovery so that he could snap to the ledge without being gimped. Both Ness's AND Lucas's PKT's could be absorbed or reflected by chars like G&W, the Spacees, Zelda, and even themselves. G&W, in particular, could always jump out to where the PK kid was, absorb the PKT, and always make it back.

 

[yoshi8984]

They could make Ness levitate with his Up-B for a few seconds, and he could move around freely. He did levitate in SSE, so I don't see why not. Well maybe this could make him a bit easily edgehogged, but eh.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So... Ness is a White Mage?

Actually, given that he has good physical strength, he's more like...

 

[bubbaking]

How about PK Teleport? You know, the one where he runs up to a certain speed and then teleports to the town he wants to go to?