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New ATs for Kirby!: Momentum tilts & throws.

SkaManifesto

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Now I'll start off by saying that this AT is not specific to Kirby, but i've tried several characters, and thankfully, Kirby does this best. Other candidates for this include DK and Diddy, and those are the tw I've found to be of any use.

Now onto the AT...

Momentum Lag - What it is and how to do it

Ok so momentum lag is somewhat a kin to slide canceling in that they both involve the dash and sliding animations of a characters, but thats where the similarities end.
I will say in advance that i still do not have videos or pics of this but i will do my best to describe this as clearly as possible

Step One: Run left or right.

Step Two: When running push your control stick opposite direction that you are running, and hold it for about half second. Would should appear to be happening is this: You should have the sliding animation, and run the other direction, easy no?

Step Three: Let go of the control stick, and watch your screen. After you let go of the control stick, Kirby should perform a very slight head-bob while his feet kind of fumble benath him, the time between turn and this head-bob is the momentum lag.

Side note: Problem you might have and what they look like:
Kirby's head does not bob - either your doing it right and you just need to look closer, or your not holding the control stick in the opposite direction long enough.
Kirby has a sliding animation after I stop holding the opposite direction: - you are holding the opposite direction too long.

Now I'll explain exactly what this is, because i know it must not seem like much right now. During the ML (Momentum Lag) time. if you do a tilt or a grab, you will continue to move forward, seemingly defying the laws that apply to SSBB gravity. Now here's where it gets tricky.

Momentum Tilts
I will warn you in advance, the finger control needed for this technique is very demanding, and requires extreme patients in learning. It is best to have the idea of ML down before trying this.

How to do them

Momentum F-tilt
After performing the steps to produce ML, attempt to do a F-tilt (I'll get to b-tilts/d-tilts shortly, and as for u-tilts? Well they're also possible but they are extremely hard and require a TON of practice, let's just start easy lol). Be sure to to execute the tilt before Kirby's head bobs or you will end up doing a dash attack, that means your doing it wrong lol. A good way to learn this is like so: Go to the edge of final destination in training mode and face off of the stage, when Kirby begins to titter on the edge the practice begins. Run backwards, then run forwards AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, here is your creation of ML. While this is going on attempt to do a F-tilt, it may seem hard but believe me it IS possible lol. If you end up tittering on the edge again once your tilt animation is done, then congratulations, you have performed a perfect Momentum F-tilt, if you end before it, still grats. Its not easy, just try to end up tittering.
Finger movment: Perform the movements for ML but instead of letting go of your control stick when changing direction, keep your finger on it and push it forward again in a soft yet fast manner (you DONT want to do a smash.) To help you heres a mental picture. Imagine your control stick like a circle, when your going to do the tilt, do not cross the verticle diameter of your circle but pull the stick back enough so that you can push it again, then press a lol :D. I hope this helps.

Momentum "B-tilt"
While, the Momentum B-tilt is alot easier than the F-tilt, it is also much less of an effective attack strategy, unless your using it for approach, which in any case, bair is better. So here we go. Perform the steps for ML, turn kirby around while he's MLing (he will be sliding backwards if you do not tilt lol. Side note: there is a strategy with this backwardness that ill get to shortly), then almost simultaneously do a F-tilt . With this tilt yuo will actually loose ground from your orgininal position even if you do it perfectly.
Finger Movement: This one is not as hard because you just tilt the control stick the opposite direction intead of trying to tilt it the same direction twice.

Momentum D-tilt
Follow the same directions as the other tilts, this one will not make you go far at all, you'll loose ground, and if you figure out how to use this effectively please tell me lol.
Finger Monvement: Nothing special here, this should be a piece of cake if you've mastered the first two.

Momentum U-tilt
This is somewhat hard, haha i lie, this is very hard and requires VERY good finger control, or just skill at buffering :3. Perform the actions for ML, but when your chanign direction, as soon as Kirby pushes off, buffer your control stick upwards to avoid tap jumping, this is easy compared to what comes next :).

Momentum "BU-Tilt" [B/]
Perform the steps for a Momentum B-tilt, but instead of pushing your control stick directly backwards, your going to have to push it upwards, (straight upwards for that matter, if not you will perform a diagonally momentum tilt which is still pretty awsome lol.) if done correctly, you will end up backwards, and have just completed a u tilt. Congratulations if you can do this, its like a moving U-tilt, seemingly good for a fake-out apporach.

Smashing W/Momentum
Try this out at see what you think, i have not found anything with the smashes because you can do the pretty well without any sort of ML, main example, slide canecling.

Turning during ML
If you turn during ML you basically end up facing your opponent, it is not worthwhile without a follow up attack, U-Smash, or D-smash works well, this is not useful for F-smashes, but overall the animation for it just looks cute.

Momentum Grabs

Now these are much easier than Momentum Tilting (MT).

Regular Momentum grabs
Step One: Perform the steps for ML
Step Two: Press Z, you will get a moving grab that DOES NOT have lag :D, You should also regain all ground that you lost +extra sometimes if done perfectly.

Shielded Momentum Grabs
Step One: Perform the steps for ML
Step Two: Shield during ML and you will shield slide, press "A" anytime during this do to a sheilded momentum grab.

So there's the Kirby AT, I''ll leave you to yourself to mess with it. Have fun and be patient :D !
 

Dpete

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Agreed, videos would be nice. The "f-tilt" and "b-tilt" terms are kinda vague, and I think a video could help clarify. Seems you put a alot of work into it though, good to see the Kirby community working on AT's!
 

SkaManifesto

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lol totaly foward=f-ilt, and back=b-ilt? :3 The next best option is for you guys to post a video, and for me to tell you what is wrong with it lol.
 

cAm8ooo

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hmmm, i hope we get to see a video soon, it's kinda hard for me to understand. But hopefully this will be a great AT for kirby, now we can count his AT's on two hands..... i mean one hand.....i mean just one finger.
 

Krii

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is this at all visually similar to fox trotting a grab? Im trying to understand it.

Like fox trot, stop, grab. it shoots forward.
 

SkaManifesto

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Nono, here, Run, run backwards, then just hold the control stick until he pushes off, go from there.
 

momochuu

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I have no idea if I'm doing it right. I think a video is necessary.
 

storm92

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Love a video.
Wooh, Kirby might have an AT that I'll use in real matches besides Dashdancing for no reason! =D
 

3xSwords

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isnt this the thing that samurai panda made a whole thread about. Like dash canceling momentum sliding or something like that, and this guide is an instructive way to do it with all his tilts and grabs? That's cool.
 

DR809

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It's kinda confusing to read it but if you can put up a video with the explinations. Seems that Kirby gets better with every passing second.
 

Tomato Kirby

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"I will warn you in advance, the finger control needed for this technique is very demanding, and requires extreme patients in learning. It is best to have the idea of ML down before trying this."

^
I find it necessary to emphasize the need for a video. I insist on a video. Something this nice needs a video.
 

cAm8ooo

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If you dont have a camera or capture card you can send a replay to someone who does :) ( which isn't me)
 

SkaManifesto

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If you set your c-stick to tilts, does this make it easier to do?
Exteremly! I've tried that before, but it messes you up if your used to using the c swtick to smash. If you know what im talking about please post a vid lol
 

Seventh Sword

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I never use the C-Stick to smash, so I set it to attack instead. I've gotten this to work consistently, though I haven't tried to apply it in a real match yet. It's easier to see the effect with the Momentum Grab I think, since Kirby stumbles forward for his dashing grab, but when you Momentum Grab he does his regular grab and still slides forward. Could be very useful as a surprise tactic.
 

SkaManifesto

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I never use the C-Stick to smash, so I set it to attack instead. I've gotten this to work consistently, though I haven't tried to apply it in a real match yet. It's easier to see the effect with the Momentum Grab I think, since Kirby stumbles forward for his dashing grab, but when you Momentum Grab he does his regular grab and still slides forward. Could be very useful as a surprise tactic.

This dude has it lol xD great tip about the grabbing.
 

momochuu

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I can make a few replays if you want. I have it down now.

And Seventh Sword is right about the C Stick being for Tilts. It's much easier, and you can use another button for smashes.
 

SkaManifesto

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That's good, a video would be appreciated, but myself, i HIGHLY argue against setting your c stick to tilts. I once thought myself that that would be a wonderful, and i witnessed many benefits to using the c-stick, it took me awhile to learn how to use it correctly but it rocked once i figure out how to. But then i relized the handicapped-ness behind it. No matter what you do, a c stick smash will ALWAYS be activated more quickly than A+Control Stick. With Momentum Tilts, of coarse you gain this AT but the down side is that your taking the easy way out. If your able to keep the speed of C-stick combined with an increased knowledge of tilts you will become a much better player. With this said, i HIGH recommend that you DO use the c stick for attack for about a week give or take, but this will only serve as a crash course in learning how effective Kirby's tilts really are.
 

Seventh Sword

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That's good, a video would be appreciated, but myself, i HIGHLY argue against setting your c stick to tilts. I once thought myself that that would be a wonderful, and i witnessed many benefits to using the c-stick, it took me awhile to learn how to use it correctly but it rocked once i figure out how to. But then i relized the handicapped-ness behind it. No matter what you do, a c stick smash will ALWAYS be activated more quickly than A+Control Stick. With Momentum Tilts, of coarse you gain this AT but the down side is that your taking the easy way out. If your able to keep the speed of C-stick combined with an increased knowledge of tilts you will become a much better player. With this said, i HIGH recommend that you DO use the c stick for attack for about a week give or take, but this will only serve as a crash course in learning how effective Kirby's tilts really are.
I have very bad control with my fingers, plus I rarely use C-Stick to Smash or Wavebounce, etcetera. However, I have an alternate control configuration and matching name whenever I use Kirby, because I stutter-step with almost every other character I use.

Usually though, C-Stick set to Smash is the way to go. I'm just lucky my play style is aerial-based with Kirby.
 

Red.Tide

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That's good, a video would be appreciated, but myself, i HIGHLY argue against setting your c stick to tilts. I once thought myself that that would be a wonderful, and i witnessed many benefits to using the c-stick, it took me awhile to learn how to use it correctly but it rocked once i figure out how to. But then i relized the handicapped-ness behind it. No matter what you do, a c stick smash will ALWAYS be activated more quickly than A+Control Stick. With Momentum Tilts, of coarse you gain this AT but the down side is that your taking the easy way out. If your able to keep the speed of C-stick combined with an increased knowledge of tilts you will become a much better player. With this said, i HIGH recommend that you DO use the c stick for attack for about a week give or take, but this will only serve as a crash course in learning how effective Kirby's tilts really are.
So how do you do nairs without losing any momentum at all without the c-stick set to attack?
 

SkaManifesto

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So how do you do nairs without losing any momentum at all without the c-stick set to attack?
I think im looking too deep into what your saying, but if your asking what i think your asking check it. Because it is using the a button opposed to c-stick I would suppose that you undoubtedly loose some small number of frames that is most likely significant in some cases. The next best solution is short hopping with X and quickly rolling your finger onto A, it presses them almost simultaneously. But I guess i should not totally bash the c-stick for attack, if you have never used the c-stick for smashing then it might be a good idea, but that is somewhat balanced out by the fact that using c-stick for smashing should be what your doing, using A+Control stick for more subtle tactics such as tilts, or charged smashes. Overall, its a matter of personal opinion, and in opinion and advice to the people reading this, (see last post). Sry im to last to type it again lol.
 
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