New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[andalsoandy]

Das what I've been saying, cuh.
Almost everytime someone brings up over-saturation, they end up contradicting themselves WITH THEIR OWN VOTES!!!!
Not as a strike against you, I've been noticing this for a while now, and that's my main gripe when someone brings up over-representing a series...BECAUSE THEY CAN'T READ WHAT THEY'RE WRITING.

Did my moveset convince you about Hector, btw?

If you were the one that posted the gif images, then sure.

You can change your other votes, just not your +1s

Then a half-vote for Hector and no vote for Lyn (just drop the -1).

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

It was a fairly sizable wall of red text. We don't get a whole lot of those down these parts, hence the reactions.

meh batistabus gave one that was equally large he just didn't color code it for readability, which I guess has an affect. I do admit that I gave more downvotes than most people, but I attempted to explain my reasoning for all of them.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

meh batistabus gave one that was equally large he just didn't color code it for readability, which I guess has an affect. I do admit that I gave more downvotes than most people, but I attempted to explain my reasoning for all of them.

Yeah, the color red has a negative stigma here.......for some reason.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

And why are my downvotes inherently more "hateful" than anyone elses? I'm expressing my opinions and I'm allowed unlimited downvotes, am I not?

Personally, I'm just fine with you having an opinion about characters. What struck me as a little unnecessary about downvoting every single character was that it would have been just as easy to upvote the characters you liked and express your support to the same end, without putting an inordinate amount of work into making that downvote list. Just giving everyone a symbolic downvote doesn't contribute to data at all (not to mention that it's far less efficient to count), since everyone gets dinged one anyways and nobody is any closer to telling who has more support. When you've created a massive downvote list when it has no actual use other than announcing your general disapproval of adding new characters, it comes across as hateful.

Now, if your downvotes were intended to make a difference in the vote outcome, really all they did was put Tabuu at relative +2, Sandbag/Isaac/Pichu/Andy at +1.5, and Ridley/Paper Mario at +1. None of the other characters were even effected much. That many downvotes with so few upvotes gives the impression that you're voting to give your own favorites an artificial edge. If you think Ridley wouldn't be a bad addition, why not just place him in your half votes? If you truly think that your neutral votes should carry enough weight to help a character's chances, then I would be inclined to call that a hateful mindset.
You're completely free to your opinions, it just comes across as abusing the system, is all.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Personally, I'm just fine with you having an opinion about characters. What struck me as a little unnecessary about downvoting every single character was that it would have been just as easy to upvote the characters you liked and express your support to the same end, without putting an inordinate amount of work into making that downvote list. Just giving everyone a symbolic downvote doesn't contribute to data at all (not to mention that it's far less efficient to count), since everyone gets dinged one anyways and nobody is any closer to telling who has more support. When you've created a massive downvote list when it has no actual use other than announcing your general disapproval of adding new characters, it comes across as hateful.

Now, if your downvotes were intended to make a difference in the vote outcome, really all they did was put Tabuu at relative +2, Sandbag/Isaac/Pichu/Andy at +1.5, and Ridley/Paper Mario at +1. None of the other characters were even effected much. That many downvotes with so few upvotes gives the impression that you're voting to give your own favorites an artificial edge. If you think Ridley wouldn't be a bad addition, why not just place him in your half votes? If you truly think that your neutral votes should carry enough weight to help a character's chances, then I would be inclined to call that a hateful mindset.
You're completely free to your opinions, it just comes across as abusing the system, is all.

Fair points, and that might have been a better way to do things. I mean if the powers that be want to count them as that, then that's fine by me.
Personally my first post about the issue was meant to be more of jest, and then I merely expanded on who I didn't want in and for what reasons. There were relatively few characters that I felt totally ambivalent about, and so I voted symbolically as such.

 

[Tofer Dallah]

For all the anti-Pichu who say things like: "He was only in Melee to make some hype for the 2nd gen2" or "He was not supposed to be in Melee" or "He was a crappy character":

Roy was Low Tier and was only in Melee to make the promo of Fe6 !~ Just saying..

 

[Anti Guy]

For all the anti-Pichu who say things like: "He was only in Melee to make some hype for the 2nd gen2" or "He was not supposed to be in Melee" or "He was a crappy character":

Roy was Low Tier and was only in Melee to make the promo of Fe6 !~ Just saying..

I don't think I've ever seen you have a post that did not have the word "Pichu" in it.

Also, Pichu was only in as a representation for Pokemon Gold and Silver too.

 

[Tofer Dallah]

I admit, Pichu is the character I want the most and I defend him a lot. I admit I should talk about the other character I hope for (Ridley, FE character, etc..) But anyway, many character was in Melee as a representation for their game.

In the end Pichu is the only character I realy want, I main him in Melee and I don't care for the reste of the new character, everything will please me as long Pichu is in and that not a 3nd party character. D:

 

[arcticfox8]

I don't think I've ever seen you have a post that did not have the word "Pichu" in it.

Also, Pichu was only in as a representation for Pokemon Gold and Silver too.

That was the point I think.

 

[Tofer Dallah]

Wich point ? About my or the representation for Gold and Silver ? x)

 

[Chaos Wolf]

Hey All, Here to add my two cents in regards to the character set

Upvote

Andy(I want an Advance Wars character in so bad, and I've never even played the games. Give them Snake's old Nikita with some AI controlled Infantry or Tanks and we're looking at a great camping character. ORIGINALLY VOTED FOR SAMI, SWITCHED VOTE)
Lyn (I'd been moving towards Hector cause of those animations, but Roy and Ike are already Heavy Hitters, looking past Weapon choice he'd be redundant. Lyn can be a faster fighter than Marth is)
Ridley (As commented, Ridley has some Crazy support despite his size, and odds are he's a safe pick if Sakurai didn't want to add him for SSB4)
Paper Mario ( easy retool with an unreferenced series, and if Link gets two versions, why shouldn't Mario)
Ray 01 (honestly, Ray would be a pretty easy Samus Clone, gotta redo the Down B. But other than that, Fast and strong, but ultra fragile)

Hay-vote (Half Vote)

Black Shadow/Ganondorf(More for Black Shadow than for Ganondorf tbh.)
Issac (People want him in for sure. Never played the game, but unlike the AW rep, Issac just doesn't feel as unique)
*EDIT* Skull Kid (There's more support for it and more logic to it now that Skull's an AT in SSB4)
Hector (as stated earlier, wouldn't be heartbroken if we got him in instead of Lyn, and THOSE SPRITES, THAT Axe Grab!)

Downvote

Sukapon (supported him when Brawl was being revealed, but have noticed the attacks in game are kinda meh. Feel like other unrepped characters would be better calls)

If only if only

Ray 01 (honestly, Ray would be a pretty easy Samus Clone, gotta redo the Down B. But other than that, Fast and strong, but ultra fragile)

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I guess I'll post my (almost) complete moveset for Hector.
I'm just posting it for fun at this point (and because Hector's barely had any discussion at all)
[collapse=Open if you care]

NORMALS:

JAB COMBO:
Jab 1: Left Hook Punch (does 2-3% damage, poor range as far as jabs go)
Jab 2: Reverse Roundhouse Kick (does 3%)
Immediate Follow-up with Horizontal Ax Slash
(does 8%, has light-armor frames, has good knockback, can kill mid-weights at >120% if sweet spotted)


*A fairly situational jab sequence, similar to Lucas' in execution (two inputs, three attacks).


DASH ATTACK:
An upwards Ax sweep similar to Wolf's DA in function. (does 7-11%, as great range for a dash attack, has a lot of end lag, easily punished.)


TILTS:
S-Tilt: Stabby-Thrust (like Roy's, but with a two-handed ax. does 4-7%. can be angled, a keep-away side tilt)

U-Tilt: Ganondorf's vBrawl U-Smash, with less start and end lag (does 4-6%, allows for juggles and follow-ups)

D-Tilt: Hilt Poke (does 4%, has almost no knockback on-stage with hella hitstun, has meteor properties off-stage)


SMASHES:
F-Smash: Similar to Dedede's side smash, animation wise. Has 2 optional attacks (by pressing A, he twirls around and does the same attack again, moving slighty forward each time.)

(Super-Armor on first hit. 1st hit: 10-22%, depending on charge. 2nd hit: 10-15%. 3rd: hit: 10-15%. Each attack has a slight quake effect, similar to Wario's D-Smash. MAJOR shield damage. MAJOR end lag. Impossible for these attacks to link without inhuman SDI. 1st and 3rd attacks similar to Ike's F-Smash in knockback, 2nd is much weaker.)

*One of his PM "gimmicks"


U-Smash: Shoryuken with a BIG ASS AX (Super-Armor frames, does 15-25%, depending on charge. More vertical knockback than Ike's U-Smash, bothersome start and end lag.)

D-Smash: Spins 3 times with his Ax, similar to Roy's and Dedede's animation wise (Light-Armor frames, does 8-17%, depending on charge and if sweet/sour spotted, great horizontal knockback with a lasting hitbox all the way through on the ax and his body)


AERIALS:
Nair: 2 forward kicks, each similar to Mario's Nair in knockback (1st and 2nd hit: 4% each, can kill at high percents)

Uair: I dunno how to describe this. Imagine Wario doing his U-Tilt in the air if he were holding an ax.....yeah..got nothing else, yet. (very quick aerial, does 6%, juggles though)

Bair: A downward ax swing behind Hector. (does 7-12%, if sweet/sour spotted. spike properties if sweet spotted, moderate start up lag.)

Dair: Ike's Nair, without as much horizontal coverage. (does 7-12%, sends opponent diagonnally upwards, depending on what point of the swing connects. moderate kill power. no meteor properties)

Fair: Does 3 frontflips while holding out his ax. Think like Metaknight's Nair, but lasting much longer with INSANE range. If holding A, Hector will gain forward momentum while falling, during the attack animation. Is Jump or UpB cancellable, if double jump isn't used. (3 hits, each doing 7-10%. Excellent knockback on each hit, so they can't really flow into each other, while they all have potent killing potential. MAJOR end lag [a bit longer than Link's Dair] if not L=cancelled)

*his OTHER main gimmick



GRAB GAME:
Pummel: A headbutt, like Ike's, does more damage (dunno the numbers)

F-Throw: Hector Knee (does 4%, medium knockback, can chain throw at lower percents)

B-Throw: Backward Ax Sweep (does 6%, high knockback for a throw)

U-Throw: Upward Ax Sweep (does 7%, latches opponent onto the ax and flings them, can reliably kill off the top at higher percents)

D-Throw: Stomp (does 4%, similar to Snake's D-throw, an excellent tech chase throw)



SPECIALS: (copy and pasted from previous post with minor changes)

Up B: Standard attack animation (whatever it's called)

I couldn't find the animation I wanted, but he jumps WAY higher. It wouldn't allow for a lot of lateral recovery, but it could be used as an aerial finisher, with a hitbox all the way through (sweet spot on the axe, sour spot on his body).

*Light Armor frames, does 8-10%, has meteor properties on the downward swing.


Side B: Hand-Axe (using the Boomerang as a base)

Functioning almost exactly like the boomerang, traveling twice as fast. Maybe doing more damage with less hit-stun as a trade-off.

*does 6%, hitstun similar to Falco lasers


Neutral B: Warrior Critical Spin Attack

Chargable. Once fully charged, allows Hector to move across the stage while spinning, similar to Toon Link, but a LOT slower. Press B again for the optional second hit. Instant fast fall if used in the air.

*spin sequence does 10% all the way through, has less range than Link's spin attack, always sends opponents up diagonally.

*optional hit does 8%, has meteor properties

While I know Hector doesn't do this in-game, just look at all of the FE and Mother characters. A lot of them take attacks from their allies or just pull some crap out of nowhere (Eruption? Seriously, what is that?).


Down B: Parry

Similar to Counter in function, with twice the number of active frames Marth's Counter has. The counter-attack does 4% and has set knockback, sending the opponent a considerably far distance. A "get out mah face" move, primarily.


FINAL SMASH: Armads Critical (just for lols)

Stuns all players on stage, INSTAKILL on axe hit, causes a tremor effect that does 30% to any characters standing on the stage that aren't hit by the axe.


TAUNTS:
****, I don't know.

[/collapse]

How was that? Good? Bad? Stupid?
I like feedback...

 

[Anti Guy]

Hey All, Here to add my two cents in regards to the character set

Upvote

Sami (I want an Advance Wars character in so bad, and I've never even played the games. Give them Snake's old Nikita with some AI controlled Infantry or Tanks and we're looking at a great camping character. I'd vote for Andy, but Sami has more support)
Lyn (I'd been moving towards Hector cause of those animations, but Roy and Ike are already Heavy Hitters, looking past Weapon choice he'd be redundant. Lyn can be a faster fighter than Marth is)
Ridley (As commented, Ridley has some Crazy support despite his size, and odds are he's a safe pick if Sakurai didn't want to add him for SSB4)
Black Shadow/Ganondorf (More for Black Shadow than for Ganondorf tbh.)
Paper Mario ( easy retool with an unreferenced series, and if Link gets two versions, why shouldn't Mario)

Hay-vote (Half Vote)

Issac (People want him in for sure. Never played the game, but unlike the AW rep, Issac just doesn't feel as unique)
Hector (as stated earlier, wouldn't be heartbroken if we got him in instead of Lyn, and THOSE SPRITES, THAT Axe Grab!)

Downvote

Sukapon (supported him when Brawl was being revealed, but have noticed the attacks in game are kinda meh. Feel like other unrepped characters would be better calls)

If only if only

Ray 01 (honestly, Ray would be a pretty easy Samus Clone, gotta redo the Down B. But other than that, Fast and strong, but ultra fragile)

Please don't vote based on the current results. It's not like whoever is highest ranked will make it in. Don't treat it that way. It's more important to get a good gauge of each character. And besides, Andy is actually very close to Sami right now.

 

[Kally Wally]

[Hector stuff]

Replace the word "power" with "armor."

 

[trojanpooh]

Ray 01 (honestly, Ray would be a pretty easy Samus Clone, gotta redo the Down B. But other than that, Fast and strong, but ultra fragile)

I've never played Custom Robo, but this seems like a pretty solid way to get a Samus clone without using Dark Samus. And anyone who follows this thread should know how I feel about fast and strong but ultra fra-*coughpichucough*-gile.

 

[Yeerk]

I'm gonna fight you purely because I'm an animorph and you can never take over my mind!!!

*cough*

Only a matter of time, my friend.

Please don't vote based on the current results. It's not like whoever is highest ranked will make it in. Don't treat it that way. It's more important to get a good gauge of each character. And besides, Andy is actually very close to Sami right now.

Yeah GO ANDY!!

Are there going to be more updates of character standings? Is it more important for this thread to get unbiased votes or to inform the public of character popularity?

 

[arcticfox8]

I guess I'll post my (almost) complete moveset for Hector.
I'm just posting it for fun at this point (and because Hector's barely had any discussion at all)
[collapse=Open if you care]

NORMALS:

JAB COMBO:
Jab 1: Left Hook Punch (does 2-3% damage, poor range as far as jabs go)
Jab 2: Reverse Roundhouse Kick (does 3%)
Immediate Follow-up with Horizontal Ax Slash
(does 8%, has light-armor frames, has good knockback, can kill mid-weights at >120% if sweet spotted)


*A fairly situational jab sequence, similar to Lucas' in execution (two inputs, three attacks).


DASH ATTACK:
An upwards Ax sweep similar to Wolf's DA in function. (does 7-11%, as great range for a dash attack, has a lot of end lag, easily punished.)


TILTS:
S-Tilt: Stabby-Thrust (like Roy's, but with a two-handed ax. does 4-7%. can be angled, a keep-away side tilt)

U-Tilt: Ganondorf's vBrawl U-Smash, with less start and end lag (does 4-6%, allows for juggles and follow-ups)

D-Tilt: Hilt Poke (does 4%, has almost no knockback on-stage with hella hitstun, has meteor properties off-stage)


SMASHES:
F-Smash: Similar to Dedede's side smash, animation wise. Has 2 optional attacks (by pressing A, he twirls around and does the same attack again, moving slighty forward each time.)

(Super-Armor on first hit. 1st hit: 10-22%, depending on charge. 2nd hit: 10%. 3rd: hit: 15%. Each attack has a slight quake effect, similar to Wario's D-Smash. MAJOR shield damage. MAJOR end lag. Impossible for these attacks to link without inhuman SDI. 1st and 3rd attacks similar to Ike's F-Smash in knockback, 2nd is much weaker.)

*One of his PM "gimmicks"


U-Smash: Shoryuken with a BIG *** AX (Super-Armor frames, does 15-25%, depending on charge. More vertical knockback than Ike's U-Smash, bothersome start and end lag.)

D-Smash: Spins 3 times with his Ax, similar to Roy's and Dedede's animation wise (Light-Armor frames, does 8-17%, depending on charge and if sweet/sour spotted, great horizontal knockback with a lasting hitbox all the way through on the ax and his body)


AERIALS:
Nair: 2 forward kicks, each similar to Mario's Nair in knockback (1st and 2nd hit: 4% each, can kill at high percents)

Uair: I dunno how to describe this. Imagine Wario doing his U-Tilt in the air if he were holding an ax.....yeah..got nothing else, yet. (very quick aerial, does 6%, juggles though)

Bair: A downward ax swing behind Hector. (does 7-12%, if sweet/sour spotted. spike properties if sweet spotted, moderate start up lag.)

Dair: Ike's Nair, without as much horizontal coverage. (does 7-12%, sends opponent diagonnally upwards, depending on what point of the swing connects. moderate kill power. no meteor properties)

Fair: Does 3 frontflips while holding out his ax. Think like Metaknight's Nair, but lasting much longer with INSANE range. If holding A, Hector will gain forward momentum while falling, during the attack animation. Is Jump or UpB cancellable, if double jump isn't used. (3 hits, each doing 7-10%. Excellent knockback on each hit, so they can't really flow into each other, while they all have potent killing potential. MAJOR end lag [a bit longer than Link's Dair] if not L=cancelled)

*his OTHER main gimmick



GRAB GAME:
Pummel: A headbutt, like Ike's, does more damage (dunno the numbers)

F-Throw: Hector Knee (does 4%, medium knockback, can chain throw at lower percents)

B-Throw: Backward Ax Sweep (does 6%, high knockback for a throw)

U-Throw: Upward Ax Sweep (does 7%, latches opponent onto the ax and flings them, can reliably kill off the top at higher percents)

D-Throw: Stomp (does 4%, similar to Snake's D-throw, an excellent tech chase throw)



SPECIALS: (copy and pasted from previous post with minor changes)

Up B: Standard attack animation (whatever it's called)

I couldn't find the animation I wanted, but he jumps WAY higher. It wouldn't allow for a lot of lateral recovery, but it could be used as an aerial finisher, with a hitbox all the way through (sweet spot on the axe, sour spot on his body).

*Light Armor frames, does 8-10%, has meteor properties on the downward swing.


Side B: Hand-Axe (using the Boomerang as a base)

Functioning almost exactly like the boomerang, traveling twice as fast. Maybe doing more damage with less hit-stun as a trade-off.

*does 6%, hitstun similar to Falco lasers


Neutral B: Warrior Critical Spin Attack

Chargable. Once fully charged, allows Hector to move across the stage while spinning, similar to Toon Link, but a LOT slower. Press B again for the optional second hit. Instant fast fall if used in the air.

*spin sequence does 10% all the way through, has less range than Link's spin attack, always sends opponents up diagonally.

*optional hit does 8%, has meteor properties

While I know Hector doesn't do this in-game, just look at all of the FE and Mother characters. A lot of them take attacks from their allies or just pull some crap out of nowhere (Eruption? Seriously, what is that?).


Down B: Parry

Similar to Counter in function, with twice the number of active frames Marth's Counter has. The counter-attack does 4% and has set knockback, sending the opponent a considerably far distance. A "get out mah face" move, primarily.


FINAL SMASH: Armads Critical (just for lols)

Stuns all players on stage, INSTAKILL on axe hit, causes a tremor effect that does 30% to any characters standing on the stage that aren't hit by the axe.


TAUNTS:
****, I don't know.


[/collapse]

How was that? Good? Bad? Stupid?
I like feedback...

Have you seen Chief Thunder in the new KI? If Hector can do something like him I'd be all for him.

[/quote]

 

[andalsoandy]

smashboards is being dumb so ignore this post

 

[GeZ]

The Black Shadow, Ganondorf moveset switch thing is so ****ed up guys. But I don't think the Dev team would consider that one on account of the Ganon mains and their feelings. In regards to Pichu, I don't see why everyone wants the little guy so bad. I mean, I liked playing it too but we've got 5 more character slots. And then that's it. Unless Pichu is overhauled to function entirely differently from Pikachu, which I'd be totally down for by the way, then the character just doesn't rank high on my list of characters who would be fun, unique inclusions to this game.

 

[trojanpooh]

The Black Shadow, Ganondorf moveset switch thing is so ****ed up guys. But I don't think the Dev team would consider that one on account of the Ganon mains and their feelings. In regards to Pichu, I don't see why everyone wants the little guy so bad. I mean, I liked playing it too but we've got 5 more character slots. And then that's it. Unless Pichu is overhauled to function entirely differently from Pikachu, which I'd be totally down for by the way, then the character just doesn't rank high on my list of characters who would be fun, unique inclusions to this game.

1) Pretend that your main was cut in Brawl.
2) Replace all instances of Pichu in your post with your main

And to think, just a sentence ago you were all concerned for Ganondorf fans' feelings.

 

[GeZ]

1) Pretend that your main was cut in Brawl.
2) Replace all instances of Pichu in your post with your main

And to think, just a sentence ago you were all concerned for Ganondorf fans' feelings.

He's not a diverse enough character. I don't feel bad for Doc mains because they've got P:M Mario. Pichu functioned so stupidly similar to Pikachu in almost every regard that his inclusion would just be what it was in melee. Obligatory worst character.

 

[Yeerk]

1) Pretend that your main was cut in Brawl.
2) Replace all instances of Pichu in your post with your main

And to think, just a sentence ago you were all concerned for Ganondorf fans' feelings.

3) Read the first 20+ pages of this thread. xP

 

[trojanpooh]

He's not a diverse enough character. I don't feel bad for Doc mains because they've got P:M Mario. Pichu functioned so stupidly similar to Pikachu in almost every regard that his inclusion would just be what it was in melee. Obligatory worst character.

Dumb argument/10

 

[Solbliminal]

I would honestly feel indifferent to Pichu if it didn't mean we had to give up 1 of 5 slots to an 8th Pokemon. I understand how Pichu fans must feel for losing their main, but I don't feel Pichu would be beneficial to the roster in comparison to another character. And I mean it completely when I say I know how it feels to lose a main. In Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, Lars from Tekken was a guest character. He was excluded from any future installments. I stopped playing after that honestly. Lol.

 

[Grey Belnades]

For all the anti-Pichu who say things like: "He was only in Melee to make some hype for the 2nd gen2" or "He was not supposed to be in Melee" or "He was a crappy character":

Roy was Low Tier and was only in Melee to make the promo of Fe6 !~ Just saying..

Jokes on you, I don't care about Roy.

 

[Chzrm3]

The Black Shadow, Ganondorf moveset switch thing is so ****ed up guys. But I don't think the Dev team would consider that one on account of the Ganon mains and their feelings. In regards to Pichu, I don't see why everyone wants the little guy so bad. I mean, I liked playing it too but we've got 5 more character slots. And then that's it. Unless Pichu is overhauled to function entirely differently from Pikachu, which I'd be totally down for by the way, then the character just doesn't rank high on my list of characters who would be fun, unique inclusions to this game.

That's if they do 5 characters, though. If they do any less than 5, Pichu suddenly becomes a really attractive choice, because he's one of the easiest characters to implement - so you're getting an extra character for a fraction of the PMBR's time and energy.

 

[Starcutter]

That's if they do 5 characters, though. If they do any less than 5, Pichu suddenly becomes a really attractive choice, because he's one of the easiest characters to implement - so you're getting an extra character for a fraction of the PMBR's time and energy.

I don't see all 5 characters coming out by this time next year. Smash 4 will probably be out by the time they get all 5 places filled.

 

[Solbliminal]

That's if they do 5 characters, though. If they do any less than 5, Pichu suddenly becomes a really attractive choice, because he's one of the easiest characters to implement - so you're getting an extra character for a fraction of the PMBR's time and energy.

Not exactly. They still have to make a model from scratch, make animations (since Pichu's frame is vastly different from Pikachu), and tweak things to fit the P:M environment. If anything, Pichu would take as much time, if not barely less, time than Mewtwo in terms of workload. If your statement is true, then it would take PMBR no time at all to work on characters wi th established movesets from other games. The best example being Sukapon.

Personally, I've been rather fond of seeing Raiden after playing Rising.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

How was that? Good? Bad? Stupid?
I like feedback...

I like a lot of your move ideas, but the damage numbers sometimes raise an eyebrow, since I sometimes find them to be needlessly poor at racking up damage (speaking from my Roy experience, here) or to have other points of confusion. For example, the smash attacks; are those low damage numbers because of a sourspot? If not, 10% on a non-linkable fsmash hit aint gunna cut it. In general, I'd say including specific numbers can just be a wasted effort, since it's so hard to get them right off of pure theory and it takes focus away from the strategic/aesthetic value of the moveset.

Honestly, it seems like Hector would be easier animation-wise than Lyn, at least as far as copying from Ike goes. He has a similar build, and Ike handles Ragnell much more closely to a battleaxe than a katana.
I could see his axe being made to work similarly to Marth's tipper system (really it would be more similar to DDD's hammer sourspot, though), much like Ike has been given an anti-tipper system similar to Roy's.
I admittedly have not thought over Hector much up to this point. As far as my few concerns go:

-I'm far from thinking that each character absolutely must have the most unique playstyle possible, but I'm a little worried that Hector's won't distinguish itself very much. The axe isn't worth much if all it does is turn him into vBrawl Ike with a few new tricks and a sourspot, for example. Overall, this is fairly minor, since there are definitely ways to make his playstyle worthwhile, many of which you've already mentioned.
-He will still require some model work, so his workload at best is "a little easier than Lyn, who is also rather difficult." Mostly, it's just that clonability doesn't really help his case that much, even if it doesn't particularly hurt it.
-Competing with Lyn's popularity is a difficult task. At this point I don't see him catching up in the tally. That has nothing to do with my personal vote, just to be clear, only his overall chances.

I do think he has a lot going for him, though, and I'll definitely be considering him in a future vote update.

 

[Chzrm3]

Not exactly. They still have to make a model from scratch, make animations (since Pichu's frame is vastly different from Pikachu), and tweak things to fit the P:M environment. If anything, Pichu would take as much time, if not barely less, time than Mewtwo in terms of workload.

I feel like that's not true. : > Someone posted a tier list of how hard each character would be to make a while back, and cmart gave it a solid "looks legit!" On that tier list, Pichu was in the green tier, which meant relatively easy to make. My guess is you wouldn't need to make new animations for Pichu at all - you'd just compress everything a bit when you gave him his new model, and then tweak anything that looked wonky or out of place.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean about Sukapon. : x

 

[trojanpooh]

Not exactly. They still have to make a model from scratch, make animations (since Pichu's frame is vastly different from Pikachu), and tweak things to fit the P:M environment. If anything, Pichu would take as much time, if not barely less, time than Mewtwo in terms of workload. If your statement is true, then it would take PMBR no time at all to work on characters wi th established movesets from other games. The best example being Sukapon.

Personally, I've been rather fond of seeing Raiden after playing Rising.

Is this a joke? Pichu is a clone that existed previously in Melee. The PMBR has gone on record in saying that Roy took much less time to make than Mewtwo because of just that. Plus having moveset (which they have all the frame/damage/everything data for) in Melee means they can port it over fairly easily (compared to making a new character anyways) and then build from there. Any other character from here on out requires being built 100% from scratch, meaning they'll all take longer than Mewtwo to make. That means it's a ~300 hour character vs a ~700+ hour character.

 

[XRagingxDemonX]

Is this a joke? Pichu is a clone that existed previously in Melee. The PMBR has gone on record in saying that Roy took much less time to make than Mewtwo because of just that. Plus having moveset (which they have all the frame/damage/everything data for) in Melee means they can port it over fairly easily (compared to making a new character anyways) and then build from there. Any other character from here on out requires being built 100% from scratch, meaning they'll all take longer than Mewtwo to make. That means it's a ~300 hour character vs a ~700+ hour character.

Unless its shadow who already has most of his work done...

 

[Yeerk]

That means it's a ~300 hour character vs a ~700+ hour character.

But what's twice the workload, really?

 

[Venikhal]

One I idea for a character that I've read is that perhaps the PMBR should create their own original character for the game. I know that technically they wouldn't have been included in smash bros before and that already violates one of the character guidelines setup, but that's for copyright reasons and to avoid competing with smash 4. Me and everyone on these boards have been amazed at what the PMBR has accomplished creatively and technically with project m and the character changes, and I feel they should put in something that really leaves their mark in project m. An all new character from the PMBR would be on the top of my list when it comes to new characters. Aside from that:

Isaac
Black Shadow ( Ganondorf with new moveset)
Saki
Sukapon
Dark Samus (Something about her I prefer to ridley. The possibilities of a faster samus with floating seems really intriguing.)

All of these get my upvote. Plus the PMBR original character if you guys take that into account. I'd love to see what you guys can come up with.

 

[Chzrm3]

I'm not even lying, I'm in smashboards withdrawal. @_@

As far as an original character, it's a cool idea, but I kind of feel like the PMBR can leave their mark on the series by taking someone like Ridley or Isaac that Sakurai seems to not want to do, and really making that character fantastic. Sakurai seems to be against the idea of Ridley for whatever reason, so that's a perfect example - a character that lots of fans love and want to see in the game, but who doesn't really have a chance because of Sakurai's hilarious/arbitrary decision making... by implementing him well and making him not only really fun, but fit in naturally with everyone else, he'd kind of be the perfect embodiment of everything the PMBR strives for all rolled into a single character.

So he'd be an "original" character in the sense that they came up with the moveset, made the model, did the animations, and tested him for hundreds of hours to make sure he was balanced and fit in well with the rest of the game - but he'd also be a Nintendo icon and a fan favorite, keeping in line with what makes Smash so fundamentally awesome.

 

[GeZ]

Is this a joke? Pichu is a clone that existed previously in Melee. The PMBR has gone on record in saying that Roy took much less time to make than Mewtwo because of just that. Plus having moveset (which they have all the frame/damage/everything data for) in Melee means they can port it over fairly easily (compared to making a new character anyways) and then build from there. Any other character from here on out requires being built 100% from scratch, meaning they'll all take longer than Mewtwo to make. That means it's a ~300 hour character vs a ~700+ hour character.

Look man, I'm down for Pichu if the little ******* gets an overhaul and becomes his own diverse character. Until then he's a subpar Pikachu that leaves the meta exactly the same. He's just so similar. He's so ****ing similar it's stupid.

What if they made Ice Climbers again but a little faster and they got frostbite from using any of their specials. But(!) because they can't feel their then deadened limbs (on account of the frostbite) they can hit harder!

That's what it's like. That's exactly what it's like and it's so dumb.

 

[GeZ]

I'm not even lying, I'm in smashboards withdrawal. @_@

As far as an original character, it's a cool idea, but I kind of feel like the PMBR can leave their mark on the series by taking someone like Ridley or Isaac that Sakurai seems to not want to do, and really making that character fantastic. Sakurai seems to be against the idea of Ridley for whatever reason, so that's a perfect example - a character that lots of fans love and want to see in the game, but who doesn't really have a chance because of Sakurai's hilarious/arbitrary decision making... by implementing him well and making him not only really fun, but fit in naturally with everyone else, he'd kind of be the perfect embodiment of everything the PMBR strives for all rolled into a single character.

So he'd be an "original" character in the sense that they came up with the moveset, made the model, did the animations, and tested him for hundreds of hours to make sure he was balanced and fit in well with the rest of the game - but he'd also be a Nintendo icon and a fan favorite, keeping in line with what makes Smash so fundamentally awesome.

Basically Ridley for best clone character. Make it happen.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Are there any good reasons to NOT add Ridley?
I'm all ears...

 

[Solbliminal]

Is this a joke? Pichu is a clone that existed previously in Melee. The PMBR has gone on record in saying that Roy took much less time to make than Mewtwo because of just that. Plus having moveset (which they have all the frame/damage/everything data for) in Melee means they can port it over fairly easily (compared to making a new character anyways) and then build from there. Any other character from here on out requires being built 100% from scratch, meaning they'll all take longer than Mewtwo to make. That means it's a ~300 hour character vs a ~700+ hour character.

I was simply noting what I thought would be requires but...

I feel like that's not true. : > Someone posted a tier list of how hard each character would be to make a while back, and cmart gave it a solid "looks legit!" On that tier list, Pichu was in the green tier, which meant relatively easy to make. My guess is you wouldn't need to make new animations for Pichu at all - you'd just compress everything a bit when you gave him his new model, and then tweak anything that looked wonky or out of place.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean about Sukapon. : x

...He pointed out something I neglected. I was simply considering the effort it would take to match Pikachu's frame data with Pichu's super deformed body. Apparently less effort than I initially thought. You can't blame me for showing concern in a workload though.

As for the Sukapon comment. He has an established moveset in his game and moves that can be borrowed from characters in his game (no different than Ness). The game he is from is already a fighting game. Unlike most character choices like Issac, where imagination comes into play for how he would function in a Smash Bros. environment. Same goes for Ridley, unless you want him as a Charizard clone / semi-clone.

But knowing me, I've probably got this all wrong. Someone PLEASE inform me if I'm wrong here. Sukapon most likely would still require more time than Mewtwo for playtesting and balancing. Given he would be a newer character with no Meta established yet. But he would require less time than someone like Issac or Ridley, who both don't have established Meta or movesets.

If I'm wrong here than please just ignore my nonsense. Last week was rough on me and I'm just now catching up on sleep. I had to work two jobs on Thanksgiving and one of them kept me until the morning of black Friday, followed by working through Saturday on both jobs. Sunday and Monday were not as bad, but I still lost sleep because of working at 2:30 a.m. everyday and 12:00 a.m. for Thanksgiving.

 

[arcticfox8]

Are there any good reasons to NOT add Ridley?
I'm all ears...

He's too big