New here, tips for ROB? [Videos]

[Talps]

Hey guys, I've lurked on smash boards for the past couple months, and after my roommate grabbed a gamebridge I decided to record some videos and ask for advice. ROB has been my main for a long time after a hard switch from Diddy, but I'm also getting a bunch of pressure from friends to work on my secondary G&W more because my ROB is predictable X-D

All advice is greatly appreciated, and hopefully I can put up some better videos later. The few matches we did record were far from stellar showings, especially the second video... but they're what I have at the moment. I know, i know, my off-the-edge game is terrible, working on that.

Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ieig_SOA2k4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydNEwe88ebE

 

[Teh Future]

Use spot dodge less. Use dilt moar.

use a different color lol....

 

[Talps]

Any particular reason to use a different color?

 

[Shockdrake]

I'm not famous like Jcaesar or Sudai, but I know quite a bit:
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Shield grab instead of jabbing or spot dodging (which you use way too much by the way).

Utilt destroys a lot of the cast from below and can chain pretty well.

If you're in UpB waiting for an opening to land, throw out an fair so you can AD if needed.

glidetoss back and laser
glidetoss down
You can grab release him into a gyro and smash.

Speed hug.

walk forward carefully and use ftilt. Try to powershield laser shots.

Ledge options: instead of always ledge hop fair'ing, you can...
- ledge hop AD
- ledge hop nair, laser, gyro, uair (if he's standing on top of you)
- Shadow is pretty known for mixing up his ledge hops with a shield-poking sideB every so often.
Sometimes, you can ledgejump (not hop) to fleeing UpB to Bair'ing him in the face if he chases.

About your gyro usage, against wolf, I usually see two ways to use your gyro efficiently. One is the one I see you using: just trying to have it somewhere on stage to disrupt his play. Don't always shoot it AT him though. Since you're letting it out for the sake of having a hitbox onstage, you looks like you're being very predictable about always shooting it if he sees you start charging. The other way is to charge it up to full and use it when he can't retaliate or doesn't expect it (i.e. when he's recovering or vulnerable from a laggy move).

Just for the wolf matchup: You probably know about his scarring right now (side-b'ing through the stage). Also, it's probably better overall not to chase him offstage unless it's a low percent bthrow offstage to fair chain gimp. Just stand onstage and bair where you think he'll appear.

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Marth

Ftilt angled up marth. It destroys his short hops.

Use robo burner (tap b while you're in UpB). You conserve fuel and go farther.

Utilt and uair Marth. Marth has a weak spot below him just like you do. Marth and ROB can juggle each other pretty well. At 3:07, an utilt would have kept him in the air for more uairs.

Don't stay close to him. You should always be in ftilt range against Marth, never closer. Farther is okay, since you can camp.

You can pick up your gyro and z-drop it on the edge of the stage or just off the edge. It can mess with his recovery. Ex. at 3:23.

You keep getting hit by his fsmash as you come back onstage from the ledge. Ledge hop slightly backwards and laser or gyro to see if you can get a better opening. If that doesn't work, ledge jump AD is the best option. Marth's edgeguarding is beast if he's patient and reacts well. This marth doesn't ledgeguard you as well as he could have.

You can use c-stick to do aerials. Retreating fair is where ROB uses it most. You can move ROB out of retaliation range while putting that fair hitbox in front of you.

 

[Darth Waffles]

If you're in UpB waiting for an opening to land, throw out an fair so you can AD if needed. [...]
Ledgeguarding options

Reiterated for emphasis

These are the most important ones. Once you're above the stage, especially in the one against Marth, you're just risking your fuel by not canceling the up-b. The fair isn't trying to hit anything; it's to give you an important option of air dodging to get to the ground. You got stuck in that "Gah-I'm-in-trouble" phase when you were above marth and helpless because you couldn't air dodge.

Shock covered a lot of options on the ledge, so I don't need to repeat them all. It seemed like you always dropped down, went to the ledge, and then... didn't know how to get back on. Mix it up and don't get predictable, but ledgecamping and trying to get Marth to make the first move works a lot.

 

[buenob]

there's lots of things in general, but my biggest suggestion is to not be so predictable... I get the feeling you're not quite comfortable with all of robs moves yet, and you are missing a lot of opportunities to punish bad marth spacing because of it (utilt especially)... not only do you miss a lot of chances to punish, the marth easily shields most of your projectiles when you throw them out... try saving them for when he's off the ledge a bit more

also, when you're on the ledge, you do one of two things... wait until your invincibility frames run out and then drop/jump -> attack, which the marth calls with a well placed sword to your face on more than one occasion, or the getup attack, which unfortunately will get called by better players

also, you tend to needlessly use fuel... again, i think this is just a comfort level with the move... you definitely are pretty good with rob, just keep plucking at it and things will click

lol and I didn't want to say it, but learn to space nair properly using up->b mindgames... it'll do your games good
--
as for the person aboves advice, it's pretty bad lol (no offense, most of it is good but...) don't do retreating fairs against marth... his sword tipper will beat everything you have... marth has the advantage when it comes to walls of priority over rob

char specific against marth is pretty simple... 1) get him off the stage... 2) projectile him when he wants to jump/up-b for easy recovery... 3) quick-ledge finish for his final attempt to recover

that being said, it is very hard to pull off against a good marth lol

edit: no that's MY colour lol

 

[GwJ]

You're stealing my color, son.

I've seen just about everything covered here, except to simply not be so predictable and throw some mindgames in there.

 

[Shockdrake]

don't do retreating fairs against marth... his sword tipper will beat everything you have... marth has the advantage when it comes to walls of priority over rob

That last comment about retreating fairs is a general bit of advice for maintaining control over your aerial spacing. It was not specifically for marth. But that doesn't mean you can't use it against him. If your Marth opponent is in a dash close to you as you're falling, a c-sticked fair lets you continue moving away as you fair. Marth can't do much out of a dash if he's close to you. Jumping takes time and dash attack will get hit by your fair. If he just started the dash, he can't shield either. Lastly, if he shields it, because you continue retreating, he can't hit you out of his shield lag. Only perfect shielding your fair would let him punish.

By the way, your fair can beat Marth's fair if it's perfectly spaced. Your fair has a slightly laggy hitbox. Marth's fair doesn't.

 

[buenob]

if marth dashes to when you're falling, he's a bad player if you can call it... uair, boosted usmash, fair, rar bair, sword dance, fsmash!... all of those will beat you if you try to space for a retreating fair, and a sword-dance can even be done out of a dash

if he just started the dash, he can down-b or dash-dance to grab... point is, don't plan on it... if the marth can't space his fair to beat your fair, it's a bad marth lol... it's like saying a well timed angled fsmash from rob can beat MK's glide attack... it _cannot_ unless it's poorly timed via the opponent

 

[Shockdrake]

^ Above poster is correct.

Retreating fair is situational.

But the reason it's being brought up is that OP is pressing the A button to fair each and every time. Using an A-button fair puts him in an even worse position in all of those cases you just described. We're not talking about situations where it's better not to fair at all.

While c-sticking aerials isn't all important for ROB (like it is for Marth), if you watch videos of really good ROBs, you'll probably see that most of them can implement a retreating fair if they need to. Not every opponent is going to be a Marth, and even good players will slip up in punishable ways.

 

[buenob]

i gotta agree with ya this time a retreating fair while on one hand could be good against some characters, but you're needlessly extending your hurtbox as well as a hitbox, and unfortunately fair doesn't have much priority after the initial hit (since it's all based on damage)

don't get me wrong, retreating fair is a useful tool, and an essential one at that (especially against bair spammy GnW's) but as with all of robs moves, very situational

so, good advice as a general thing to learn but use in moderation

 

[JCaesar]

I sense some of you have read the Q&A thread in its entirety

Looks like I'm not needed here. The students become the masters...

 

[GwJ]

We try out best.

 

[Sudai]

I sense some of you have read the Q&A thread in its entirety

Looks like I'm not needed here. The students become the masters...

I actually shed a single tear.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

I use spot-dodge like crazy if you've ever seen any of my vids. Its my favorite mindgame lol

 

[Talps]

Thank you all very much for the tips! I'm working my way through the Q&A thread, goodness that's a long thread... I've already started working in a couple suggestions, the only one that's going to take me a while is dtilts <_< >_> I can't say how many times I hit it just hard enough to smash instead of down tilt. Working on it though, thanks for all of the recommendations

edit: Though one term got me -- speed hugging?

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

idk i think hes referring to running off a ledge and then holding back so you regrab

 

[Shockdrake]

If you run off the ledge and immediately press toward the ledge, you fall slightly and then regrab. It's good for gimps. That's hugging.

Speed hugging is just fastfalling the drop. You go off stage and then quarter-circle from down to toward the stage.

Most people will actually refer to speed hugging when they say 'hugging'. It's just preference.

"Hugging" is also 6 characters shorter.

 

[buenob]

with most characters you can get away with doing a full semi-circle (from away -> down -> towards the stage) and still grab it, and this definitely works with ROB, so you can just run off the edge and as soon as you see yourself off do a semi-circle towards the stage

but try this with sonic, and that extra time it took your thumb to move will mean death lol

 

[JCaesar]

Speed hugging with ROB = run off -> fast fall -> up-B to insta-grab the edge

 

[Sudai]

Why Up-B JCZ? Since you're moving downwards, you'll auto-snap asap anyway.

 

[JCaesar]

If you up-B, even if you mess up or are a little off, you'll auto-snap no matter what. It's infallible. Normal hugging can be screwed up but if you use up-B you really can't.

I guess this matters to me because my tech skill is garbs

 

[GwJ]

I guess it can be used as a small mindgame if you avoid the ledge then auto snap afterwards.

 

[buenob]

so... fall off -> jump to ledge?? better off just waiting it out and doing it quickly later, or putting a bair in their path

 

[Sudai]

If you up-B, even if you mess up or are a little off, you'll auto-snap no matter what. It's infallible. Normal hugging can be screwed up but if you use up-B you really can't.

I guess this matters to me because my tech skill is garbs

Ah, that's also why I used to do it. I figured you might have known something I didn't. I got used to just normal speed hugging since I was afraid I was wasting gas, no matter how minuscule.

so... fall off -> jump to ledge?? better off just waiting it out and doing it quickly later, or putting a bair in their path

Nono, you literally just run off the stage and grab the edge. Start by trying to just walk off then hold towards the stage, then build up to speed hugging with fast falling.

 

[buenob]

lol just ignore me now im' all confuzzled

semi back on topic -> don't let being "bad" with a character dissuade you from using them if you like them!! otherwise we'd all be playing Snake/MK ... (looks at sonic boards) ... but don't go overboard lol

 

[Teh Future]

If you up-B, even if you mess up or are a little off, you'll auto-snap no matter what. It's infallible. Normal hugging can be screwed up but if you use up-B you really can't.

I guess this matters to me because my tech skill is garbs

cool bit of advice, I didn't know this.

 

[Nintendevil]

Replace some Spot dodges with just shields. Dtilt more. Less range than Ftilt but it's faster and has different setups.

Also grab more. Rob isn't known for grabbing which is what makes ROBs grabs great. Fthrows go into Ftilts well, or whatever you want really. also some more wavebounces/turnarounds etc.

 

[Ruse]

Speed hugging with ROB = run off -> fast fall -> up-B to insta-grab the edge

Wouldn't that take slightly longer than speed hugging \:?

@Talps: You need to chill out onthe rolling. You used it like four times against GatoradeEnjoyer's Wolf, and pretty much all of them were unnecessary. Infact, a couple times it actually hurt you to roll (especially when he just respawned and had invincibility frames). You're using your kill moves at really low percents (most notably, Nair), which can really end up screwing you up. The overall mobility of your R.O.B. is poor, in my opinion; I don't see you fast falling at times you should, walking at inappropriate times, etc. Where's your off the edge game ):?

 

[ipitydatfu]

wrong post

 

[cowsareforeating]

I'm not a rob expert but a few things:

1. Dthrow -> up air is a really reliable way to rack up damage, and once they catch on and airdodge, fall into a b-air. Theres few/no openings when you're doing this against most chars.

2. Imho you use n-air too much. It's a great air but I prefer not to let it get stale as fast, and it is a laggy move so if you are playing against super aggressive opponents, it will hardly hit them.

3. B-air is underused in most robs. It helps **** up people's spacing because it moves you, and its horizontal knockback is very good.

4. Rob's top is a great unpredictable way to mess up people when you are ledgecamping

 

[GwJ]

1. Dthrow -> Uair isn't reliable past 30% or so from anyone who knows how to DI.

2. Using Nair a lot is perfectly fine as long as he has other methods to kill. I didn't watch the videos, so I'm not sure if he does that or not.

3. Agreed.

4. The GYRO is a great way to ledgecamp. If you use *away* DI so you don't fastfall of the edge into Double Jump to Laser, then repeat to gyro. If shielded, rinse and repeat. If missed or hit...rinse and repeat until approached.

 

[Sudai]

DThrow > UAir is only "reliable" bellow 30% on DK, Snake, and Bowser. Other than that, it's just a good set-up.

 

[professor mgw]

try usin r.o.b.'s down+b more often. also his forward smash.

 

[cowsareforeating]

DThrow > UAir is only "reliable" bellow 30% on DK, Snake, and Bowser. Other than that, it's just a good set-up.

yeah, you misse the last part of the sentence saying it sets up for bair :]

 

[GwJ]

It is a set-up, but it's not as useful. Uair does more damage as long as they don't DI out of it too early and you'd be depricating your Bair using it at low percents for your kills later on. Uair also gives your opponent a smaller window to react. Uair is the better choice.

 

[Sudai]

yeah, you misse the last part of the sentence saying it sets up for bair :]

You missed the part where I was pointing out that DThrow > UAir is not reliable. That's all I was getting at. "Reliable" is something that works 70% or more of the time...and that's not the case here.

 

[Darth Waffles]

I like baiting the airdodge by --->short<--- hopping an upair, or just short hopping and fast falling, then punishing it. After getting a dthrow-upair a few times, people start immediately airdodging... unless they have about 5 jumps and/or a ridiculous up-b =\