New Neutral B tech, could it be applied to Yoshi?

[Kmac0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx6L0wiZDdk
Run B Cancel, it basically allows you to cancel your running animation directly into a Neutral B by returning your control stick to normal and inputing B at the same time.

Why could this be useful to Yoshi? Well I'm sure you all know better than I, how good Yoshi's neutral B is. At least, compared to his horribly laggy grabs.
Standing or JC grab

Total: 79 frames
Grab: 18-23​

Running grab:

Total: 70 frames
Grab: 11-16​

Neutral B:

Total: 39 frames
Grab: 17-21
​

Sure, the hitbox of Yoshi's running grab comes out faster, but the fact that Neutral B has over 30 frames less ending time than the running grab makes a huge difference. That's an entire half of a second.

This tech could be applied to Yoshi as a sort of new method of approaching or whiff punishing. It has an animation time similar to that of a regular character's grab. Having a viable grab can make or break characters, Samus being an example of a character that suffers from a bad grab (We make it work anyways). There aren't all that many situational uses I can think of, rather it feels like a tech that can just overall improve Yoshi's game. Yoshi is a mix-up king, why not add another trick for the big bag?

One of the only real negatives I can think of is similar to the negatives you'd see with Marth's running down tilt. It HAS to be done out of a run, not a dash. Marth players still make it work though, even with his long dash range, I don't see Yoshi suffering from this problem too much, but it was still worth mentioning.

I wanna hear what the Yoshi gurus think, will it sink or float?

 

[Pabmyster]

The only time I really find myself in a running animation over the dash animation is when I'm going for a RDJ ledge grab from across stage, or doing an extended dash dance. On the ground, I could see this being more useful if used in conjunction with DJL to keep options open out of a run, and seeing as DJL can allow you to do this already, the only real purpose would be the preserved momentum and the slight frame advantage due to no jump squat animation. On the plus side, it can be good on platforms instead of burning a double jump, but just doing a regular waveland off a platform seems to provide enough momentum to do anything you want anyway, and isn't limited to neutral B.


Maybe it could even be used as an edge guarding gimmick? Vududash off stage to try and bait some bad DI? Probably really unreliable now that I think of it.


Still, it's a cool "find" considering this game has been out so long, and this tech is only being highlighted now. I don't see any crazy practical use out of it, but maybe it could be fairly okay situationally, for that surprise egg lay in neutral against a floaty for a free follow up.

 

[DD151]

The biggest problem is that Egg Lay is bad and there are basically no good follow-ups if the opponent is not bad at mashing out.

 

[dahuterschuter]

Well I suppose it's useful as a dash option.

 

[DD151]

I also want to point out that in terms of how you should consider qualities of a move, you should prioritize between move startup, hitbox size/position, possible follow-ups, and move cooldown. Of these, I think that move cooldown has the lowest priority. When a (good) Yoshi player uses his dash grab, he does so confident that it's going to hit, and obviously if it hits, there is no cooldown worth considering. Additionally, dash grab has a faster startup, somewhat more range (due to how Yoshi stumbles), and better possible follow-ups on most characters than Egg Lay.

For example, one of the most common applications of dash grab is punishing tech rolls, and you can't replace that with running Egg Lay because it's too slow; never mind the lower cooldown if you read incorrectly or whiff. Another application of dash grab is to whiff punish an aerial dodged via dash dance, and you can't replace that with running Egg Lay because you can't use this technique out of a dash, only a run. The Marth analogy doesn't really work because Marth's D-tilt comes out 11 frames faster than Egg Lay.