New Tier Position

[o-Serin-o]

As we all know, a new tier list is nothing, but maybe a few days or weeks away and things will happen that we will either like or dislike. I figured that since we each have our own opinions on what is soon to come, why not discuss it.


Rules:

No flaming, trolling, etc, etc.
Just follow SWF global rules and we will be fine.

Not doing so will have Kitty come in and punish accordingly, so don't bull****.



What Needs to be Discussed

Current Metagame
Recent Tournament Placings
Other Character Positions and How They Affect Us
Overall Placement in the New Tier List



To avoid a huge cluster**** of mess, we will go through one topic at a time.



We'll start with the current metagame.


~Serin

 

[o-Serin-o]

Saved for what we think will be his position from S tier to A tier.



EDIT:

S Tier
Meta Knight

 

[CRASHiC]

Do to our poor showing at Gensis (CURSE YOU TOON LINK!!!!!) and a lack of placements outside of Atomsk at SNES and more local tournaments like Co18 in Florida and FOGO in HOBO, I predict we will drop simply because of this, and the man below us (Marth) having gotten second place in a tournament where Ally and Mew2King was present. We will become the king of High tier, and Marth will rise up above us.

I still feel that's a mistake though. I think we should be in a sort of Borderline tier with Marth, my argument being his incredible Matchups.

Here is a weighted tier list based on matchups weighted in terms of most used charecters-
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv183/RajamBop/CharactersRanking-16.jpg

 

[goodkid]

Ling Ling is a very good DDD. He is going to Pound 4, so you all need to look out for him. He's one of the Puerto Rican smashers that went to Genesis, and w/ Excel, they got 6th in doubles.

I think DDD may stay were he's at or go down.

Ling Ling(DDD) vs TL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmxEDSa99Bk

 

[o-Serin-o]

Seriously? This is all you guys have to say?

 

[CRASHiC]

Are we suppose to argue and post our thoughts on all characters?

 

[MagicJosh]

Are we suppose to argue and post our thoughts on all characters?

I will start the arguement, then since it is required.

(insert arguement and generic insult)

Anyways, I think that the ice climbers slowly rising will give us more of a problem that we might think, as it could easily be our worst MU. I don't like people using ice climbers JUST for the grab hax (personally just because it just seems as a "do it just because I will win if I do" thing, not because I think it's cheap. But I do think that with the IC rising in ranks more and more people might start to use them.

I agree with being boreder lined with marth as he and ddd have pretty ridiculous match-ups.
Although I feel d3 should place higher than him simply because (to me) marth just seems to have less of mind game play style. (for example Marth = fair fair fair fair, side b, upb oos, and DDD= grab - followed be SOO much more)

 

[Commander_Beef]

Do to our poor showing at Gensis (CURSE YOU TOON LINK!!!!!) and a lack of placements outside of Atomsk at SNES and more local tournaments like Co18 in Florida and FOGO in HOBO, I predict we will drop simply because of this,

Everything you said besides this is true. We won't drop because of our lack of representation in placings at all. It's not about that, because the tier list is more weighted on the character itself since it's been almost two years. It is partly weighted by the players representing that character, but that's only near the beginning to the middle of the game's time period. At a time period like this for higher tier characters like these, the players don't matter anymore for the character's place on the list. It's about the character's themselves, and this is where my perspective comes in.

I think DDD may stay were he's at or go down.

Of course, we already know that King Dedede is not going to go UP. He's never going to go above 6th because of the other characters above him, and the war with Marth.
My strong prediction is in conformity with Crashic's, I also believe that Marth will surpass King Dedede and they will switch places, and that was one of my questions for the similar thread that I made. [If you all remember it. It was when the 3.0 list was made.] Marth's matchups, enough said.

In terms of King Dedede's metagame... it has not improved as much to be general. If we were to "improve" his metagame, we should all be practicing inhale releasing tactics [thank Seibrik], and try to perfect it in any possible way because we can get very easy up tilt kills off of it on characters like Meta Knight. Practice, practice practice.
The only thing we can be left to do is to just be smarter players with our matchups. That's how I am right now. We have to look at more in-depth things about our character combined with the very small things we can do in each situation with a particular matchup.

 

[Zip.]

ugh thank you beef..

personally i think ddd should be a bit lower than he is.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Your welcome.

It'll be your first time contributing to this board and it would be surprising to see! Do you have anything to say about this topic?

 

[CRASHiC]

Actually, our tier list is heavily influenced by tournament placings.
/wishes for matchup baised tier list that we don't have.

 

[Zip.]

Beef, i dont contribute because i havent played this game in a very long time D=
(and i feel as though i am theory crafting and i hate it)
anyways..

well i think we should go by matchups/metagame

i think marth will rise above ddd(i dont know why marth wasnt higher already.,im basing this on marths matchups compared to ddds)

but i also think pikachu,olimar, and ics deserve to be higher than ddd as well.
what is everyones opinion about these 3 being above ddd?

 

[Dekar173]

Although I feel d3 should place higher than him simply because (to me) marth just seems to have less of mind game play style.

Pass me some of that kush my good friend, I want to be in the universe you're in right now.

 

[CRASHiC]

No No and Maybe
Oli's claim to fame is countering us and Snake. But then comes Metaknight, Ice Climbers and Marth. . . . .
Pika is famous for countering Falco and D3, but if Marth is moving up, Pika sure the hell shouldn't. Pika's got big marth trouble.
ICs have a 40-60 matchup with MK again, CPed horribly easy by Snake, but they at least have the tournament placing of Meep to back what they can accomplish.

 

[TlocCPU]

We will be top of B tier (optimistic) or C tier (pessimistic)
somewhere between those two extremes

 

[CRASHiC]

What? Why would we be behind Kirby and R.O.B. ever?

Highest DDD at Genesis

9. Lain - Ice Climbers/King Dedede

Highest Pikachu-

17: Z - Pikachu

Highest Olimar

17: Rich Brown - Olimar

Highest ALL DDD-

17: Co18 - King Dedede

SNES results

Highest DDD

4: Lain (Ice Climbers/Dedede)
or if you want a Mainer
5: Atomsk (Dedede/Ice Climbers/Luigi)

Highest Pika

5: Anther (Pikachu)

Highest Olimar-

25: Blackwaltz (Olimar)

Viridian City results

Highest DDD- Mew2King not counting

6: Atomsk - Tyrant Slayer! ($23.75)

Highest Olimar-

17: dqboo (dabuz)


There's no reason for us to be below those characters, and with Snake and Marth on the rise, we do much better in the metagame than Olimar and Pikachu.

 

[AtotheZ]

That is pretty extreme

 

[T3h Albino]

I think I agree with CRASHIC for once.

I'll post my other thoughts later though.

 

[TlocCPU]

Activegamers highest dedede me :3 but gay 17th

 

[Commander_Beef]

We're NOT GOING to go anywhere above or below 6th or 7th. You're all being over exaggerative about this. We are going to either stay, or Marth will switch places with us, that's it. Thank about it, for once.

 

[T3h Albino]

****it beef I was gonna say that.
You guys are underestimating how good King Dedede is as a character.

Best Scenario- We stay where we are on the tier list
Most Likely Scenario- We switch places with Marth and become the captain of A-Tier
Worst Case Scenario- Marth goes into S-Tier, but we're still behind IC's in A. Making IC's the new captain of A-Tier, and us right behind them.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Well if you were going to say that, then that's good. The more people who commit to this theory, the better. There's no competition involved with who says what first.

 

[Gates]

Has the SBR even given a dte for the release of the next tier list yet?

 

[Jupz]

Not yet gates.

 

[Gates]

Then why discuss it now?

 

[Jupz]

I dunno lol. Seems pointless to me too but its interesting to see the discussion.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Tier lists are usually released about 6 months after the release of a previous one.

 

[Gates]

Actually, once the Melee metagame settled down tier lists became roughly yearly. If this trend follows, we shouldn't expect a new tier list until next summer.

 

[seven7xenon]

I reckon Marth will go S tier for sure. With him now beating snake or going even it means besides metaknight he has a positive matchup against all the Top tiers apart from D3. I beleive ICs mightl also go above D3 and the S tier may be enlarged to encorporate him or he will be top of the A tier. D3 probably won't rise but then again he will only be falling 2 places at most.

 

[lain]

Man top DDD son i'm ****in ballin

 

[AtotheZ]

Man top DDD son i'm ****in ballin

Running through everyone with Ice Climbers and using Dedede once or twice doesn't make you top dedede.

 

[Commander_Beef]

What he said. Get owned.

 

[momochuu]

Depends on who he used Dedede on for those one or two times.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Not really x.x Just because you use D3 for one or two matches on say for instance, Ally, doesn't mean THAT much. Things happen.

 

[T3h Albino]

Lain's D3 is still better than most of the people posting, regardless of how much he uses him or not.
/end?

 

[TlocCPU]

lol fiction 2 stocked lains dedede in an unwinnable matchup lololololol

disclaimer: yes, I DO beat fiction's wario every time.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I'm on the side of AtotheZ, Serin, and CPU. The guy should really be using the character a lot more to keep his represntation with King Dedede, "regardless" of how good people think his King Dedede is. People should bluntly not be giving somebody credit for a character just from using a character 10% of his tournament matches. Those people who do are just ignorant to the fact that he will only use him on characters that are not hard matchups for King Dedede and not play against any bad matchups, like Meta Knight, Falco and Pikachu. I will switch sides if I ever see Lain defeat some of those matchups and not hide King Dedede behind Ice Climbers.

 

[CRASHiC]

Lain's never been a main. Its his secondary. This is known.

 

[AtotheZ]

What Beef said, except the part where he said Metaknight, Falco, and Pikachu are easy matchups.

 

[Gates]

What does how much lain uses Dedede have anything to do with Dedede's tier list position?