New Toon Link Matchup Thread

[Jash]

On topic if I may add my thoughts to the match ups.

Note: Many of you may NOT 100% agree with what I am saying, but these are my thoughts and out of all the studying I have done, I have come to these conclusions.

Kirby: 60-40 TL
The match up is naturally airborne for Kirby, in which Toon Link dominates due to Kirby's lack of range against Toon Links attacks and slow air speed. Toon Link has a easy time escaping Kirby's aerials because of Toon Links fairly decent running speed and the fact that you can *ALWAYS* punish Kirby's landing with your bomb (which is easy since he's 1) Aerially slow 2) Floaty 3) Has no moves that'll penetrate it). ZAIR ***** KIRBY! There is quite possibly absolutely nothing Kirby can do against a WELL TIMED LAND PUNISHING ZAIR. When it comes to recovering back on the stage (which I'm sure is the hardest part about this MU) what I usually do is if I'm recovering horizontally, I would take out a bomb and throw a boomerang TOWARDS THE DIRECTION YOU'RE TRYING TO RECOVER TO. Why? This forces Kirby to attack the Boomerang (because if he doesn't he'll get hit by it if he's chasing you) and therefore have an opening to throw bomb at his attack, giving you enough time to come back to the stage. When it comes to recovering vertically...just try to come back as quick as possible, his Dair is too big (and completely penetrates the bomb due to multiple hits) avoid that situation at all cost. Also Kirby dies fast which is a HUGE plus since Toon Link sorta lacks killing power.

I think I pretty much covered everything (if I didn't, feel free to ask me) I believe Toon Link strongly wins this MU for my reasons above.

This is my conclusion.

 

[MJG]

Agreed. I'd also like to point out that using Bair to recover helps a lot as well since our Bair beats out Kirby's Bair. I will sometimes throw my bomb or boomerang away from the stage and bair back onto the stage (or just using bair and getting onto the ledge) safely.

 

[Anragon]

Oh man, this match-up is so boring. 7 minutes of throwing projectiles to a flying balloon...

But at the end, you win 3 stocks 243%

 

[ViperGold42]

Oh man, this match-up is so boring. 7 minutes of throwing projectiles to a flying balloon...

But at the end, you win 3 stocks 243%

sounds like the wifi match I just had.

 

[KT Kasrani]

life has been breathed back in the thread.

 

[ViperGold42]

Hey I would like to bring up a minor problem with someone of the matchup links, some of the picture links are broken or no longer avalible so I can't tell what stage I should take this character to or ban.

 

[MJG]

None of the links are broken. We just never got around to discussing all of the MUs.

 

[ViperGold42]

None of the links are broken. We just never got around to discussing all of the MUs.

picture links, Like showing the stage in certain MUs, for example.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10927297&postcount=13

This Pit one, has the best stage to fight Pit on pictured but no pictured worst stage.

 

[KT Kasrani]

yea we should finish some of this stuff. im down to talk about MU's

 

[ViperGold42]

yea we should finish some of this stuff. im down to talk about MU's

Yeah i was really Puzzled on it because I just went to a tournament a few days ago and I know of this really good Pit player from Michigan, but I couldn't figure out what stages are good for Tink, luckily for me, I never played him.

 

[MJG]

We can discuss MUs again. I am down for that. Just pick a character and we can get going on things.

@Vipergold: We will fix that as we discuss MUs again.

 

[NH Cody]

okay

I pick metaknight.

 

[ViperGold42]

We can discuss MUs again. I am down for that. Just pick a character and we can get going on things.

@Vipergold: We will fix that as we discuss MUs again.

Thanks Boss, and by the way, you might have already heard it before but I haven't said it too you yet, Congrats on your finish in Ps4. I saw your matches in person. learned A LOT.

 

[KT Kasrani]

havent we did mk already.

 

[MJG]

Ah thanks. Whatever you decide to do with Brawl, stick with TL. it will be worth it in the end

Edit: yea, MK isn't too outdated. We can leave that alone for now

 

[Baskerville]

Why not talk about DK? I'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on him.

 

[southpaw]

dk's scary. he can make returning to the stage a nightmare. but he can be trapped by tl's projectiles pretty well. I'd say its slight tl favor, but ask jash kt and mjg since they've all beaten will.

 

[ViperGold42]

Ah thanks. Whatever you decide to do with Brawl, stick with TL. it will be worth it in the end

Edit: yea, MK isn't too outdated. We can leave that alone for now

I am, I'm going with Toon Link first for all my matches, I work with him a lot so I don't have to resort to using another character. MK is a fun matchup, Loving using TL in that MU even though its bad for us.

 

[NH Cody]

You can beat a DK player if you are both near the same skill level or even if he/she is slightly more consistent than you are. MU's probably slightly in our favor.

Maybe Diddy Kong?

 

[ViperGold42]

You can beat a DK player if you are both near the same skill level or even if he/she is slightly more consistent than you are. MU's probably slightly in our favor.

Maybe Diddy Kong?

should we go Down the tier list or up? Get the Best MU's out of the way and talk to dirty linnen for later.

 

[KT Kasrani]

You can beat a DK player if you are both near the same skill level or even if he/she is slightly more consistent than you are. MU's probably slightly in our favor.

Maybe Diddy Kong?

lol what? your logic is failing right now

 

[Dre89]

I don't see what is so bad about his logic. He's saying that because the MU is in Tink's favour the Tink has a bit of leeway in terms of skill level.

So unless you disagree with the MU being in Tink's favour, his logic seems fine.

 

[NH Cody]

^ yeah that

I don't think we should discuss DK since we will seldom run into good DK players in tourney. There are many more diddy kong players so I said we might consider talking about diddy kong...

 

[KT Kasrani]

im saying skill level has nothing to do with beating people. MU experience goes along way. also if u dont know the tools to beat a DK u will find yourself in a lot of trouble/

thats like me saying mk vs tl. if the mk is at the same skill level as u and places the same they win. which isnt the case cause very few mk's actually know the TL MU.

 

[Fragger]

Tip for MK MU, if they d-throw, DI down and Zair. Also try to not stay in the air for the early % or you will get punished a lot. Work off of SH more.

 

[MJG]

im saying skill level has nothing to do with beating people. MU experience goes along way. also if u dont know the tools to beat a DK u will find yourself in a lot of trouble/

thats like me saying mk vs tl. if the mk is at the same skill level as u and places the same they win. which isnt the case cause very few mk's actually know the TL MU.

All of this is so true. Player skill goes a long way in this game. Anyways, I am down to start a discussion for DK tomorrow. The MU is pretty fresh in my head since I just played will last weekend.

 

[ViperGold42]

alright comrades, DK is now up.

 

[MJG]

We should probably discuss strengths/weaknesses for each character in the MU.

I should also change the title lol

 

[southpaw]

DK
Pros: good air mobility, kill power in both air and ground, range, super heavy, glidetoss, great edge guarding game, ungimpable recovery outside of being spiked/footstooled.
Cons: large target, meh shield, his Oos bair, utilt, grab options can be spaced around to be safe, linear recovery.
TL
Pros: generic toon link stuff, projectiles clank with invincible ledge up-b
Cons: will eat a ton of dmg if forced to recover low, dk can use our projectiles to lag his super armor punch. can die very early vs dk a char that lives forever.

 

[Btmns]

I don't usually give input for match-ups but i feel that i know this one better than any other.
I've played many games against Allen (Australia's best DK imo) since i first started brawl.

The match-up is undoubtedly in Toon Link's favor, with an arsenal of projectiles to keep DK at bay.
Toon Link should, as usual, spend the majority of the match bomb camping DK. Z-air is your best friend for safe approaches and starting combos, since DK is often poked out of his shield.
Try to avoid trading blows, as you will die earlier than DK and he tends to do more % with his hits.
At low % DK can quite easily be juggled by our B-air strings and he will have difficulty approaching without P-Shielding every arrow/boomerang/z-air.

Unfortunately DK won't be dying early, i think he can live up to at least 130% from U-Smash (fresh/uncharged). I generally just keep poking him until i can land a z-air to n-air/u-smash combo or i can combo a kill out of a bomb

Some games vs Allen: (no 3rd game due to tournament taking priority)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnZppuH_HY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGsI99wt_zM

 

[KT Kasrani]

what happened with this.

 

[NH Cody]

what happened with this.

DK discussion...

<- see avvy

maybe we should discuss more conventional characters lol.

 

[Fragger]

Okay, then I think we should discuss Snake.

 

[Jash]

DK vs TL
If you're not careful, you MIGHT get *****, however if you play very precise and patiently campy, DK has no chance.

Try to avoid being off the stage at all time vs DK, his first frame UpB eats everything.

If you time it correctly, when DK is off stage, you can throw a bomb down and footstool to prevent his recovery. It's the only way I know how to gimp DK since he lives forever.

Never give up hope in any MU, unless it's MK. This MU is 60-40 TL

 

[Thebest1pj]

Dash attack^

Yo this mu is pretty easy aggro and campy, but campy is safer since aggro makes people camp you lol

 

[TheFlow]

From what i know, DK is a big target to our strings and our projectiles.

I think toon link must play this matchup in a simple way : Do not let DK approach.

Spacing and minimising risks is vital for dealing up with DK's Resistance. You can try a Fair for a recovery gimp, or other things.

Anyway, i am no expert at all, but i think this matchup is in TL's favor

 

[MJG]

Was gonna update this but..too tired lol. Ill update this tomorrow. Wrap up any thoughts on the MU (if you have anymore).

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I don't even play TL, but Donkey Kong is so big, I'd imagine your projectiles get in the way of his game. I'm pretty sure your bombs go through his bair, so lots of camping, and good hits with your aerials should build lots of damage. TL is so tiny, and very hard to hit. Donkey Kong will have a hard time landing hits if your projectile game is on point. Ban YI, and I'd say FD or SV are your best picks for neutrals because they provide open space for you to projectile camp/zone/space him out. A 60-40 matchup for sure.

 

[NH Cody]

yeah ban YI, or brinstar if it's legal

YI against Will

 

[~TLK~]

another thing, make sure you put enough pressure on that he can't charge up his punch, because that thing is just stupid lol