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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Ivander

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How do you guys feel about Elden Ring getting a rep before Dark Souls?
I think Elden Ring has had a noticeable impact in gaming and it's extremely popular, so do you guys think it's possible they'll could pick Elden Ring over Dark Souls? I know Dark Souls makes more sense and has more legacy obviously, but i think Elden Ring even though it's only 2 years old, has become an iconic modern classic already.
Unironically, Elden Ring might be easier to get in, since FromSoftware fully owns Elden Ring now. Whereas with Dark Souls, it'd likely require both FromSoft and Bandai Namco, much like how Square Enix and Tetsuya Nomura were still involved with Sora even though he's owned by Disney.

Still hope Dark Souls gets in though, as it's a series I like a lot still and how much it has inspired for gaming. Honestly, some of the bestcase scenario for Soulslike representation in Smash Bros. for me would be:
  • Chosen Undead for the Dark Souls character, to represent the Soulslike player.
  • Malenia for the Elden Ring character, to represent the Soulslike human-like bosses.
  • Solaire of Astora as an Assist Trophy, but he appears and has similar colors like a Phantom ally in Dark Souls.
  • Either Ornstein and Smough or the Godskin Apostle Duo as Classic Mode bosses to represent the Soulslike Duo Bosses or Black Dragon Kalameet as a Classic Mode Boss to represent the Soulslike Dragon Bosses, especially the DLC Dragon Bosses.
 

Sucumbio

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How do you guys feel about Elden Ring getting a rep before Dark Souls?
I think Elden Ring has had a noticeable impact in gaming and it's extremely popular, so do you guys think it's possible they'll could pick Elden Ring over Dark Souls? I know Dark Souls makes more sense and has more legacy obviously, but i think Elden Ring even though it's only 2 years old, has become an iconic modern classic already.
If we're farming for FromSoftware reps in Smash ... Ok? I never did care for any of their games sadly since my first experience was King's Field followed by Armored Core which both at first was cool but the hook wasn't for me and I didn't play any more of their games. In fact right now my wife is playing a "soulslike" called Another Crab's Treasure and as I'm watching I'm like oh it's Underwater Zelda...

Cool!

Edit: someone on Twitter liked a post of mine 48 seconds after the initial post here and their banner is lit

20240502_132709.jpg

@/ned_418
 
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Gengar84

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If we're farming for FromSoftware reps in Smash ... Ok? I never did care for any of their games sadly since my first experience was King's Field followed by Armored Core which both at first was cool but the hook wasn't for me and I didn't play any more of their games. In fact right now my wife is playing a "soulslike" called Another Crab's Treasure and as I'm watching I'm like oh it's Underwater Zelda...

Cool!

Edit: someone on Twitter liked a post of mine 48 seconds after the initial post here and their banner is lit

View attachment 388715
@/ned_418
I always thought their games looked cool but the difficulty has kept me from trying any Souls games or Elden Ring. Back on PS1 when GameShark was a thing, I did play Armored Core and enjoyed it. Without GameShark, I don’t think I’d have had the patience to get very far into it. I wouldn’t be opposed to a Smash character from any of these games despite my lack of experience with them.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Unironically, Elden Ring might be easier to get in, since FromSoftware fully owns Elden Ring now. Whereas with Dark Souls, it'd likely require both FromSoft and Bandai Namco, much like how Square Enix and Tetsuya Nomura were still involved with Sora even though he's owned by Disney.
I suppose it is one extra layer of stuff to work through, but with Bandai Namco helping with development (assuming that continues) I don't think it partially owning Dark Souls is that big of a deal.
 

fogbadge

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I’ve never played dark souls. Only souls likes I’ve played are quirky indie games

well 2 of them were quirky
 
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Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
How likely do you think a new Zelda character is?

Like... ANY new Zelda character?
Skull kid currently he seems the most iconic zelda character that isnt playable in smash besides ganon and impa he is currently presented as mii costume and both him and moon are assist trophy so he does hold a weight for the next zelda newcomer
but i also bet on Dark Link echo fighter if they keep changing Link moveset more and then decide to still have the old Link moveset in the game for his old players
 

Gengar84

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Skull kid currently he seems the most iconic zelda character that isnt playable in smash besides ganon and impa he is currently presented as mii costume and both him and moon are assist trophy so he does hold a weight for the next zelda newcomer
but i also bet on Dark Link echo fighter if they keep changing Link moveset more and then decide to still have the old Link moveset in the game for his old players
That’s not a bad idea actually. I’d welcome a Dark Link echo as a means of preserving Link’s classic Melee moveset. I think bringing back older sets through echoes is a fun idea. Dry Bowser bringing back Melee Bowser’s set could be another fun option.
 

KneeOfJustice99

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How likely do you think a new Zelda character is?

Like... ANY new Zelda character?
I think this heavily depends on two things - firstly, when the next Smash game releases, and secondly, what sort of a game it'll be and where its focus will lie.

There's a real possibility, and I think this is a logical place to pull from - especially with the Wild series' comparative longevity and good reception. That said, even if they released an "Ultimate Deluxe" right now or something, there's still just as much of a possibility that they'd want to focus on third-party or purely promotional picks over actual series representation or other arguments like that - so ironically, you'd be in a situation where like, Crash Bandicoot and Ogerpon could reasonably be seen as more "likely" than, like, any Zelda pick

I will say this much - I think the most "likely" Zelda pick will be a character introduced in the Wild series. There's a few candidates on that front with frontrunners being the Champions or AoC's Impa, but I reckon Sidon has a decent chance.

I'd love to see new Zelda picks get added, to be honest. Even aside from just rEpReSeNtAtIoN, it's a series with tons of potential characters that'd be really fun to play as.
 

Will

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Whereas with Dark Souls, it'd likely require both FromSoft and Bandai Namco, much like how Square Enix and Tetsuya Nomura were still involved with Sora even though he's owned by Disney.
Is that really an issue for acquisition, especially at Sora’s level? Bandai Namco is a Smash Bros. developer.

It sounds like either way it’s FromSoft’s call. :sakbanjo:
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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I'm a big fan of Dark Souls, but I wouldn't mind Elden Ring getting a character over it all that much. That game was a mega hit and it's Dark Souls 4 in all but name, no?

Speaking of something like that, a couple of days ago I've watched the Silent Hill movie, and woah it really sucks, but nonetheless I've been thinking... What if Silent Hill gets a character instead of Resident Evil?
Pyramid Head feels like a decent fit for Smash. Its design is very iconic and doesn't need to get toned down all that much. It can also represent the essential "monster" part of horror games, since the actual protagonists don't really have any particularly special abilities usually. Plus he's the character that usually shows up in crossovers. And Silent Hill itself, while not as big as Resident Evil, doesn't really need introductions.
Resident Evil has Nemesis, who could fulfill a similar role, but to me it feels like Leon and Jill at least are just too iconic to not go with them. But there's not a lot that's actually "horror" about those characters themselves.

It's still a long shot, but if they want to bring in something from horror games it might be a good strategy.
 
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Will

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I'm a big fan of Dark Souls, but I wouldn't mind Elden Ring getting a character over it all that much. That game was a mega hit and it's Dark Souls 4 in all but name, no?

Speaking of something like that, a couple of days ago I've watched the Silent Hill movie, and woah it really sucks, but nonetheless I've been thinking... What if Silent Hill gets a character instead of Resident Evil?
Pyramid Head feels like a decent fit for Smash. Its design is very iconic and doesn't need to get toned down all that much. It can also represent the essential "monster" part of horror games, since the actual protagonists don't really have any particularly special abilities usually. Plus he's the character that usually shows up in crossovers. And Silent Hill itself, while not as big as Resident Evil, doesn't really need introductions.
Resident Evil has Nemesis, who could fulfill a similar role, but to me it feels like Leon and Jill at least are just too iconic to not go with them. But there's not a lot that's actually "horror" about those characters themselves.

It's still a long shot, but if they want to bring in something from horror games it might be a good strategy.
I’d prefer other Konami reps, but if Ult. Ganon’s DORYA has to go in lieu of his new design… Yeah, I’d want Pyramid Head to inherit them.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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I’ve done it, I’ve made a moveset for the greatest newcomer choice, a character no one has the courage to bring up, the character Smash fans truly deserve.
IMG_6654.png
Here’s my moveset for Garbodor

I imagine Garbodor being about as big as Donkey Kong, having the slowest walk and run speed, and having a jump/double jump on par with Ganondorf, but makes up for it with strength and weight on par with Donkey Kong, several long ranged attacks, and the ability to deal poison damage (functions like the flower status).

I would like to point out that Garbodor has been shown in the anime to extend its arms to great lengths, which I used as inspiration for some of these moves, also Garbodor’s right arm is placed significantly lower than its right arm, so keep that in mind.

Jab: Straight punch with left arm

Forward Tilt: Swings right arm up in an arc

Up Tilt: Puts hands the on ground and slightly extends arms to attack with its head

Down Tilt: Sweeping motion with right arm, may cause the opponent to trip

Forward Smash: Extends both arms diagonally forward until both arms cross each other (roughly the length of Corrin’s forward smash)

Up Smash: Sticks its arms into it’s chest, then pulls out and lifts up a trash bag and crush’s it causing trash to burst out (5% chance of 3 food items coming out)

Down Smash: Puts hands on the ground and extends its arms lifting up its body, then slams down

Dash Attack: Trips and topples over in front of itself

Neutral Air: Swings left arm in a circle

Forward Air: Spits out a spray of acid that will travel a short distance before evaporating

Back Air: Swings right arm diagonally up behind it

Up Air: Swings left arm above its head in an arc

Down Air: Slams body down to the ground

Grab: Extends both arms straight forward to grab

Pummel: Expels bad breath from its mouth

Forward Throw: Holds opponent with left arm and punches with right

Back Throw: Swings opponent above and past its head then chucks them behind

Up Throw: Throws opponent straight upwards

Down Throw: Extends arms up then slams opponent down

Neutral Special: Does a pose bracing itself and absorbs projectiles into its body, if successful you can press the button again to spit out a toxic projectile that poisons the opponent, the more damage you absorbed the faster the poison deals damage and the longer it lasts (has a cap similar to the Lip’s Stick flower effect)

Side Special: Sticks out right arm and shoots poison from its protruding pipes, deals 5% damage, if the opponent is poisoned it deals double damage (this move will not poison the opponent)

Up Special: Extends arms diagonally up to grab ledge, if it grabs an opponent it will lunge towards them putting them in its body, the opponent will take gradual damage until they can break out, Garbodor can spit them out by pressing a button.

Down Special: Sets down a small toxic spike slightly in front of it, (can set down one at a time and will disappear over time) if an opponent walks on it they will be poisoned for a few seconds and the toxic spike will disappear, if the opponent is already poisoned when stepping on the toxic spike it will cause the poison to deal damage faster and it will last longer.

Final Smash: Transforms into its Gigantamax and unleashes a large wave of poison that will, you guessed it, poison opponents
This has been my favorite choice for the next “surprise” character, and I think I came up with a fairly fun concept for it.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I’ve done it, I’ve made a moveset for the greatest newcomer choice, a character no one has the courage to bring up, the character Smash fans truly deserve.
View attachment 388714
Here’s my moveset for Garbodor


This has been my favorite choice for the next “surprise” character, and I think I came up with a fairly fun concept for it.
My thoughts on that character choice and moveset? Literal trash :4pacman:
 

Sucumbio

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I’ve done it, I’ve made a moveset for the greatest newcomer choice, a character no one has the courage to bring up, the character Smash fans truly deserve.
View attachment 388714
Here’s my moveset for Garbodor


This has been my favorite choice for the next “surprise” character, and I think I came up with a fairly fun concept for it.
Yay! Low-key one of my favorite Pokemon...
 

Gorgonzales

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Speaking of something like that, a couple of days ago I've watched the Silent Hill movie, and woah it really sucks, but nonetheless I've been thinking... What if Silent Hill gets a character instead of Resident Evil?
Pyramid Head feels like a decent fit for Smash. Its design is very iconic and doesn't need to get toned down all that much. It can also represent the essential "monster" part of horror games, since the actual protagonists don't really have any particularly special abilities usually. Plus he's the character that usually shows up in crossovers. And Silent Hill itself, while not as big as Resident Evil, doesn't really need introductions.
Resident Evil has Nemesis, who could fulfill a similar role, but to me it feels like Leon and Jill at least are just too iconic to not go with them. But there's not a lot that's actually "horror" about those characters themselves.

It's still a long shot, but if they want to bring in something from horror games it might be a good strategy.

FeliciaFan made a phenomenal moveset for Pyramid Head. He's everything a horror character in Smash should be imo: slow but imposing, with tools to limit your opponent's options and scare them into making mistakes. (The fact that he's a grappler archetype only increases that fear factor, lol.) His character mechanic reinforces his menacing demeanor by just making him harder and harder to kill has he falls behind, which is a cool One-Wing esque mechanic. Not a Silent Hill fan but this moveset sold me on the character.
 
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Kirbeh

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Re: Bandana Waddle Dee

I know it's pretty common for people to try blending the Spear, Parasol and Beam abilities into one to make a move set for BD, but I'd honestly prefer if he stuck to just Spear. Or, if they do give him a second power, make him a stance change character that swaps between the spear and parasol. Have him be able to swap between the two on the fly for a Down Special. They could even play the Copy Ability sound effect when he does so for a fun nod. I feel like he's one of the few characters where an actual stance change move set could be both justified and pretty seamless.

Any moves taken directly from the games I'm not going to bother with descriptions for since they're easily found with accompanying gifs on WiKirby.

MoveSpearParasol
Neutral AttackMultispear AttackMultipoke Parasol - Functions like Multispear Attack.
Forward TiltSpear ThrustParasol Swing/Shield - Hold the button to use Parasol Shield. Can be used to block some weak attacks and projectiles.
Up TiltSkyward ThrustStar Thrust - Identical to Skyward Thrust but using the star shaped tip of the parasol.
Down TiltSlideSlide
Dash AttackPole Vault JumpParasol Drill
Forward SmashHammer - BD pulls out a hammer like his king. The animation is pulled directly from Kirby's use of the Hammer ability.Hammer
Up SmashHammer Flip - Ditto to the above, but with a more upward angle and launch trajectory.Hammer Flip
Down SmashHammer Swing - A stationary version of the same move used by Kirby with the Hammer ability.Hammer Swing
Neutral AirGiant Swing - Uses the animation of the Hammer ability but utilizing the spear instead.

Giant Swing - Uses the animation of the Hammer ability but using the parasol instead.
Forward AirAir Spear ThrustAir Parasol Swing
Back AirSpear Slash - BD quickly turns, performing a short slash with their spear.Star Slash - Functions identically to Spear Slash but using the star shaped tip of the parasol.
Up AirAir Cutter - Taken from Kirby. Given their similar body type/shape I don't think it's too unreasonable to share the odd move here and there.Air Cutter
Down AirDown Thrust - An aerial version of the Underwater Downward ThrustParasol Dive
Forward ThrowThrow - The Throw Ability.Throw
Back ThrowBrain Buster - The suplex from the Suplex ability, also taken directly from Kirby.Brain Buster
Up ThrowMoon Drop - Following suit with Kirby and MK's up throws, this converts the Moon Drop move with the spear into a spinning pile driver instead.Circus Throw
Down ThrowMegaton Punch - In similar fashion to Ryu and Ken's down throws, BD knocks the opponent to the ground before delivering a strong downward strike. References the sub-game of the same name.Megaton Punch
Neutral SpecialSpear Throw - BD throws a spear forward in a short arc. Can be charged to toss a volley.Star Shot - The tip of the parasol functions like a replica Star Rod, being able to charge and fire Star Bullets.
Side SpecialNruff Ride - Spawns a Nruff BD can ride on and charges forward. Has light armor but cannot change direction, though BD can jump off early.Nruff Ride
Up SpecialSpear CopterParasol Drift - Functions much like Peach/Daisy's own Parasol special.
Down SpecialAbility Change: ParasolAbility Change: Spear
Final SmashWaddle Dee Army - Shares the same name as Dedede's Brawl FS but is otherwise a completely different move. In this case, it takes inspiration from Tron Bonne's Servbot Takeout Hyper Combo from the Marvel vs Capcom series. BD will call upon a small army of Waddle Dees who run forward and overwhelm and trample opponents before launching them.
So, a few explanations:

Why make BD a stance change character?

The answer is honestly kinda just why not? Kirby is a series all about switching between different powers so I think this is one of the cases where a stance change might make sense (BD has actually used both the Spear and Parasol ability sets in the Kirby games). Plus, it's not a full on move set change as I did want to keep BD fairly simple to understand.

Most moves between the two actually remain the same animation wise, with the idea for the key difference being range and damage. The spear has better range and damage making it good for spacing and general offense. The parasol would have shorter range but larger/wider hitboxes on certain moves, making it a bit easier to land some hits, but requiring the player to be closer overall. Plus, the shielding properties of f-tilt and better projectile make it a bit more defensive compared to spear.

I suppose you could argue that you could just as easily split the move set into BD with a Parasol Waddle Dee echo. I'd be fine with that too honestly. Maybe Parasol Dee could wear different hats like Sailor Dee and others while BD sticks to different colored bandanas?

Beam?

Rather than reference Waddle Doos by giving BD access to the Beam ability, I decided to reference his loyalty to King Dedede instead by giving him smash attacks utilizing the hammer ability. This was also in part due to feeling the spear and parasol don't lend themselves quite as naturally to Smash attacks that really sell impact and to prevent overlap with animations from the normal attacks. Basically, to avoid making stuff like forward and up smash just extra hard spear thrusts for example.

That said I did completely make up an ability for Parasol by giving it the ability to fire Star Bullets. Given its appearance (and with Kirby/Dedede already being able to do so), I thought referencing the Star Rod might be a good way to give the Parasol a projectile while staying within the bounds of its actual design rather than tacking on something from Beam.

What's a Nruff?

The most left field addition for most is probably going to be the Nruff.

They're not the most notable or iconic enemy in the Kirby series, but Waddle Dees have been known to ride them in the games they do appear in so I though it could make for a fun/cute move. The spear wielding BD charging into battle on a little boar mount was just an image I couldn't get out my head once the idea crossed my mind.

1714686371537.png
 
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CannonStreak

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Here's a little question in Smashery
This one's going down in history
If you want to be an asker number one
You have to ask things to users while on the run

Anyway, we talked about characters we wanted in Smash Bros. Now...

...What characters do you NOT want in Smash Bros.? It could be anything like characters from Balan Wonderworld, that online only dinosaur game from Capcom, Bubsy, etc.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Anyway, we talked about characters we wanted in Smash Bros. Now...

...What characters do you NOT want in Smash Bros.? It could be anything like characters from Balan Wonderworld, that online only dinosaur game from Capcom, Bubsy, etc.
I don't want Mario. I think he's overhyped. :4pacman:
 

Perkilator

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Anyway, we talked about characters we wanted in Smash Bros. Now...

...What characters do you NOT want in Smash Bros.? It could be anything like characters from Balan Wonderworld, that online only dinosaur game from Capcom, Bubsy, etc.
Let’s not open that can of worms. I really don’t want any more negativity drowning this thread.
 
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CannonStreak

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Let’s not open that can of worms. I really don’t ant any more negativity drowning this thread.
I know what you mean, but I think it can work, if we keep it civil.

Besides, we do have an Unpopular Nintendo Opinions or something like that as a thread, do we not?
 

CannonStreak

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Yeah, let’s save all the vitriolic rants on why your (yes you, reading this right now) favorite character sucks for when the actual game is announced :nifty:
Except I wasn’t asking others why a character would suck.

I am just asking what character anyone does not want to see.

I don’t know if what you said was a joke or not,but still, I had to clarify this.
 

Noipoi

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Except I wasn’t asking others why a character would suck.

I am just asking what character anyone does not want to see.

I don’t know if what you said was a joke or not,but still, I had to clarify this.
It may not have been your intention, but trust me pal. It’d end up like that.

It always ends up like that:217:
 

CannonStreak

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It may not have been your intention, but trust me pal. It’d end up like that.

It always ends up like that:217:
We could still do this civilly, or at least try.

I understand what you mean, but I just wanted a little change of pace, that is all.
 

Nabbitfan730

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Even though Trophies may be unlikely for next game, i hope that as an reward for completing Classic Mode with each character gains a character bio to learn from with a Trophy being gain

Going forward, Playable fighters, Assist Trophies and Bosses should gain trophies whilst even everything else should remain Spirits. Cutting Devs slack in terms of models and also making Trophies feeling less disposable.
 

Kirbeh

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We could still do this civilly, or at least try.

I understand what you mean, but I just wanted a little change of pace, that is all.
To what end though? You either have people post lists of characters they don't want with no added context, which isn't a discussion at all, or you let people discuss the reasons why which can easily devolve into arguments over said reasons.

It's a topic with inherent negative connotations. "Who do you actively dislike enough to not want in the game?" is basically what it reads as.

Otherwise, the only other answers you're going to get are obvious stuff that doesn't need to be said like "random unnamed NPC," etc. Even your suggestions of things like Balan Wonderworld don't offer much for discussion as these are poorly received titles that most people would generally agree make for poor candidates.
 

Ivander

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Yeah, let’s save all the vitriolic rants on why your (yes you, reading this right now) favorite character sucks for when the actual game is announced :nifty:
You say that ironically, but lord knows what will happen if certain characters return in the next game, like Piranha Plant, Incineroar and Corrin, and it's not doing "Everyone is Here" again. 😔
 

CannonStreak

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To what end though? You either have people post lists of characters they don't want with no added context, which isn't a discussion at all, or you let people discuss the reasons why which can easily devolve into arguments over said reasons.

It's a topic with inherent negative connotations. "Who do you actively dislike enough to not want in the game?" is basically what it reads as.

Otherwise, the only other answers you're going to get are obvious stuff that doesn't need to be said like "random unnamed NPC," etc. Even your suggestions of things like Balan Wonderworld don't offer much for discussion as these are poorly received titles that most people would generally agree make for poor candidates.
As if asking which characters one wants is a discussion, too.

Anyway, I do see what you mean, but this thread has not been argument free, and while arguments are not what I necessarily wish to start…

…We’re still likely going to get into some in the future here.
 

Louie G.

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I know it's pretty common for people to try blending the Spear, Parasol and Beam abilities into one to make a move set for BD, but I'd honestly prefer if he stuck to just Spear. Or, if they do give him a second power, make him a stance change character that swaps between the spear and parasol.
I like this angle, it makes Bandana Dee compelling in a way that feels unique and not unbefitting to him. And it allows him to dual represent as both himself, a notable character in his own right within Kirby, and an ambassador of Waddle Dees as a collective species. I think the latter is very important and I don't totally agree with how a lot of people choose to approach it. And I'm generally a bit skeptical of stance change character concepts, but since Dee is such a simple character to begin and these weapons can be wielded fairly similarly I don't think it would be such a massive undertaking.

Bandana Dee using Beam doesn't quite work for me either. Parasol is a bit easier to digest because of its functional similarities to the spear and the fact that BWD has at least used it before. Design wise, seeing how Spear is a weapon that focuses on range and has a throwable attack, I think beam is at best kind of redundant and at worst runs the risk of turning Bandana Dee into an annoying projectile zoner rather than simply a ranged fighter. So I'm definitely in favor of locking in on these two, because I do think they're individually compelling. They also offer a good amount of creative freedom and I'd like to see the way Sakurai would piggyback off the general base, maybe throw in some cute nods in the process...

 
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Kirbeh

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As if asking which characters one wants is a discussion, too.

Anyway, I do see what you mean, but this thread has not been argument free, and while arguments are not what I necessarily wish to start…

…We’re still likely going to get into some in the future here.
I mean I'll agree with you on the first point. I've been vocal about being anti "list posting" in the past myself but it is what it is I suppose.

Even if I don't have any interest in seeing the same lists over and over, I'd prefer that to people getting into arguments over why certain characters should be gatekept, are underserving, etc., etc.
 

CannonStreak

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I mean I'll agree with you on the first point. I've been vocal about being anti "list posting" in the past myself but it is what it is I suppose.

Even if I don't have any interest in seeing the same lists over and over, I'd prefer that to people getting into arguments over why certain characters should be gatekept, are underserving, etc., etc.
Aside from my question being lost posting, which I acknowledge, word on that.

So, what was the last thing we were talking about?
 

Kirbeh

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I like this angle, it makes Bandana Dee compelling in a way that feels unique and not unbefitting to him. And it allows him to dual represent himself, a notable character in his own right within Kirby, and Waddle Dees as a collective species. I think the latter is very important and I don't totally agree with how a lot of people choose to approach it. And I'm generally a bit skeptical of stance change character concepts, but since Dee is such a simple character to begin and these weapons can be wielded fairly similarly I don't think it would be such a massive undertaking.

Bandana Dee using Beam doesn't quite work for me either. Parasol is a bit easier to digest because of its functional similarities to the spear and the fact that BWD has at least used it before. Design wise, seeing how Spear is a weapon that focuses on range and has a throwable attack, I think beam is at best kind of redundant and at worse runs the risk of turning Bandana Dee into an annoying projectile zoner rather than simply a ranged fighter. So I'm definitely in favor of locking in on these two, because I do think they're individually compelling. They also offer a good amount of creative freedom and I'd like to see the way Sakurai would piggyback off the general base, maybe throw in some cute nods in the process...

The Samsho nod would be fun, and I did want to include something like that for neutral air, but I thought the spinning animation from Hammer's Giant Swing could be applied to both the spear and parasol and fit both reasonably well. Maybe that could work as a taunt?

Aside from my question being lost posting, which I acknowledge, word on that.

So, what was the last thing we were talking about?
Bandana Waddle Dee, horror characters and Dark Souls/Elden Ring were the last couple topics.
 
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