Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

Wait Sunshine was unliked? I have not played it but I bought the NSO collection so it's in my back catalog but the one GameCube owner I knew at the time who wasn't wifey was rather taken with it so .. maybe not everyone hates it but was it a poorly reviewed Mario game ? Do any of them get actually bad reviews or poor fan reaction? I dunno but like maybe just every Mario thing ends up with a fan base and just not everyone likes everything Mario but I thought Sunshine did well so that's why I ask.

Speaking for myself, Super Mario 64 was one of my favorite games ever. Going into Sunshine, I was a bit hesitant because I wasn’t too big on the FLUDD idea or the general theme of the game. Still, I was willing to give it a shot and rented it. Unfortunately, it never really clicked with me and I stopped playing after a couple hours. My experience doesn’t speak for everyone but those are my thoughts.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sunshine is still a great game, but controls were slippery at times(no water puns intended) and it was hard to work with some stuff. Not to say SM64 had perfect controls either. Neither did.

It was very fun to mess around in, but it had a pretty large difficulty spike from Super Mario 64, which had a pretty tiny amount of difficult spots. That, and the Air and Life Meters being separate only increased the game's difficulty for no real tradeoff when they worked really well together in SM64. Sure, they weren't "realistic", but it didn't need to be. Mario already normally never had to worry about an Air Meter in previous games. That said, I enjoyed a lot of the cool designs, levels, and unique missions~

 

[Kirbeh]

Speaking for myself, Super Mario 64 was one of my favorite games ever. Going into Sunshine, I was a bit hesitant because I wasn’t too big on the FLUDD idea or the general theme of the game. Still, I was willing to give it a shot and rented it. Unfortunately, it never really clicked with me and I stopped playing after a couple hours. My experience doesn’t speak for everyone but those are my thoughts.

Yeah, my experience with Sunshine was also pretty similar. I did have my fun with FLUDD but it didn't quite have the feel that I was hoping it would.

I didn't play it until the 3D collection, but before that I spent many a year as a kid watching lets plays, speed runs and races of it on YouTube.

When I actually got my hands on it though it just didn't click with me. I played a decent chunk and sort of got my fill. Still haven't finished it which feels weird for a Mario game given that I've lost count on the amount of times I've 100%'d 64DS.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I've honestly been sold on outright having them ride around on Oatchi at all times as sort of a mount character. I've yet to play Pikmin 4 so I don't know the full semantics, I'll have to fix that soon, but I think there's potential there and provides a more creature-centric Pikmin moveset. I've wanted a playable Bulborb for a while and if we can't get that, Oatchi might be the next best thing.

I've thought the same thing in the past with Oatchi potentially making up the bulk of the moveset (or even potentially just being the character since he can do about everything the recruit can and then some), though obviously I'd prefer having the recruit up there as well instead of just throwing Oatchi into the lion's den by himself lol

Personally speaking, I'd really like to see the Final Smash incorporate the Glowmob from the night levels as like the starting hit, kinda like how Mewtwo launches a Psystrike ball at opponents, though I don't exactly know how the Final Smash would follow up from there since the Glowmob is more of a stun, unless it's a cinematic where Oatchi/the recruit call the Glow Pikmin away to protect a Lumiknoll and the opponent gets ruthlessly attacked by the more aggressive night level enemies or something, kinda like End of Day but more up close and personal?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Wait Sunshine was unliked? I have not played it but I bought the NSO collection so it's in my back catalog but the one GameCube owner I knew at the time who wasn't wifey was rather taken with it so .. maybe not everyone hates it but was it a poorly reviewed Mario game ? Do any of them get actually bad reviews or poor fan reaction? I dunno but like maybe just every Mario thing ends up with a fan base and just not everyone likes everything Mario but I thought Sunshine did well so that's why I ask.

Its definitely the most underrated one thats for sure.

Its my favorite.

 

[Sucumbio]

Ha... So no wonder FLUDD is so complicated. Do you like FLUDD Hadokeyblade ? I guess the move's inclusion does seem more like heeeey remember sunshine and the FLUDD thing? Maybe it was more liked in Japan?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It terms of smash bros i do not like Fludd, i prefered Mario tornado.

So i tend to play Dr Mario more since he kept Melee Mario's feel.

 

[Noipoi]

Sunshine is the most frustrating Mario I've ever played.

It's definitely fun, but I'm not too eager to go back to it any time soon...

 

[Laniv]

Say, if Pauline ever does get in, will she be counted as a Mario character or a Donkey Kong character?

Pre-Switch I woulda said Donkey Kong character, but now, with Odyssey and her revival in the Mario series, she'd probably be counted as a Mario character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wait Sunshine was unliked?

On the overall scale of video games? No. But it's one of the least popular mainline Mario games. And is definitely the least liked in the 3D Mario subseries.

 

[fogbadge]

everyone i know adored sunshine

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Sunshine falls into the a unique status of both being oddly unpolished in spots for a Mario title (likely due to a GC era tendency to rush certain titles) and in the context of the time period, not quite being the grand Mario followup to 64 that many expected. While Galaxy would be more linear and with less movement options than the two games previous it had a sense of scale to it that made it seem like the big 3D Mario sequel that Sunshine often didn't feel like to many fans.

Moreover, unlike other semi-controversial Gamecube followups which were somewhat vindicated by history (Wind Waker's art style, Double Dash's two driver mechanic) Sunshine hasn't had quite the same cultural redemption, though its not outright unpopular and is still doing better than poor Jungle Beat (which even the DK fandom has a tendency to be lukewarm on, let alone the general public).

I actually quite liked Sunshine, not even really because of the main levels so much (the tropical island theme got to be a bit much) but because screwing around with FLUDD even in the main hub was just fun. The joy that so many people had with Mario in Odyssey? That was me in Sunshine, especially once I got action replay for GC and went to down with the physics altering cheats.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, that's the thing. Out of the 3D Mario games, Sunshine is pretty easily the most controversial. The entire series is popular because like, it's Mario. Of course it is. But it's also easily the one that has the most amount of folks dislike it, and it doesn't get to have the "well, it was the first of its kind" leniency like 64 does.

It was controversial for a long time, then folks got super nostalgic for it, and then when it actually got rereleased a lot of people remembered what they disliked about it. Compare that to, say, 3D World, which was forgotten for a while due to being a Wii U title, but then thrived upon being ported to Switch.

All of the 3D Marios are beloved games, but Sunshine is easily the one most easily described as "love it or hate it."

 

[Gorgonzales]

The fact of the matter is, the Pikmin Captains aren't actually unique. They have the same skills. It's not an insult, it's the only way to really represent them well without using extra Pikmin(which we didn't even have a reasonable amount till Pikmin 4 to really give them unique moveset differences). With Pikmin 4 out, that changes. Now it's easy to do so~

Ultimate's timing just didn't work out. The next Smash however is a completely different situation. We have a chance they could be separated(or a new Captain). But yeah, it doesn't really help that the character is actually Pikmin & Captain when it was designed. Understandably they're supposed to be the focus(since the Pikmin have differences as species where the Captains are pretty much the same overall, for the gameplay to work well, anyway).

I get where you're coming from, but if anything, at the very least Louie could have a different moveset. If you're gonna incorporate the other characters, I could see them having similar playstyles to Olimar, but I fully and unabashedly believe that Louie has demonstrated enough in the series to make him stand on his own.

I even made a draft of a moveset concept for him. You can read it here, but the TL:DR is that while he still uses Pikmin, they're not the main focus of the moveset since it's been shown that he can survive on the Pikmin planet without them. His moveset more based on his mannerisms, interests, and overall personality. If you do end up reading it though, I'd appreciate and welcome feedback.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It was controversial for a long time, then folks got super nostalgic for it

Exactly this. It's like people that think the Star Wars prequels are good because they were 5 when they came out.

 

[fogbadge]

I get where you're coming from, but if anything, at the very least Louie could have a different moveset. If you're gonna incorporate the other characters, I could see them having similar playstyles to Olimar, but I fully and unabashedly believe that Louie has demonstrated enough in the series to make him stand on his own.

I even made a draft of a moveset concept for him. You can read it here, but the TL:DR is that while he still uses Pikmin, they're not the main focus of the moveset since it's been shown that he can survive on the Pikmin planet without them. His moveset more based on his mannerisms, interests, and overall personality. If you do end up reading it though, I'd appreciate and welcome feedback.

View attachment 380663​

no. no louie

 

[Quillion]

Compare that to, say, 3D World, which was forgotten for a while due to being a Wii U title, but then thrived upon being ported to Switch.

Did this really happen to 3D World? I thought that 3D World is similarly controversial as Sunshine but for the opposite reason: being too close to the "standard" Mario aesthetic.

 

[Opossum]

Did this really happen to 3D World? I thought that 3D World is similarly controversial as Sunshine but for the opposite reason: being too close to the "standard" Mario aesthetic.

3D World got a significantly more warm reception on the Switch with the advent of hindsight, alongside people finally realizing it was unfair to lump it in with New Soup (more specifically, with U and 2).

The reactionary backlash it got from a vocal minority during its initial release has pretty much completely subsided.

 

[Kirbeh]

Did this really happen to 3D World? I thought that 3D World is similarly controversial as Sunshine but for the opposite reason: being too close to the "standard" Mario aesthetic.

It was at launch because people wanted a new fully 3D Mario, but because it's just a solid game all around, people actually warmed up to it pretty quickly. People eventually took to it as its own thing separate from both the 2D and main 3D titles. In a sort of reverse where Sunshine has a smaller but dedicated following, 3D World while not necessarily favored over the 3D titles is still very well liked, but still has a small, dedicated base of detractors who are still salty they had to wait even longer before the eventual "true" Mario game.

 

[Noipoi]

3D World got **** for being rather safe in an era where Mario was nothing except for safe, we were knee-deep in the New Soup. It also got **** for not being a big new sandbox Mario that'd blow minds and save the Wii U.

Sadly, nothing was going to save the Wii U

 

[Quillion]

I just want to say that I'm impressed that Mario can easily handle being sandbox and linear at different points in time and the fanbase will eat it up.

Other series like Zelda, Final Fantasy, and Pokémon try to shift between the two and can't handle it.

 

[Arcadenik]

Speaking of Mallo, its sad to know that with the 3DS and Wii U eshops closing, that's one series pretty much completely gone now (outside of resorting to heading down the seven sea's). Hopefully IS brings the series back on modern hardware one day...

I would love to see Pushmo get a new game on Switch. Maybe it could be like a collection of Pushmo / Crashmo / Stretchmo / Pushmo World on one cartridge.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

There’s a discussion to be had about Studio S isn’t there? It’s clear that Bamco is rebranding the team in preparation for something and considering this is specifically the studio that made the last 3ish Smash games and they decided, of all the possible names, to use “S” is in my mind pretty telling. Super, Smash, Sakurai, Sora.

We are pretty much without a doubt on the advent of Nintendo’s next console as much as Nintendo loves to deny it. I think it’s wholly possible that development for the next Smash could kick into full force soon especially if they are wanting to get the ball rolling early enough to make it in the first few years of the next console AND give them enough time to flesh the whole thing out.

Looking at some of Sakurai’s statements it seems like he has to have had discussions with Nintendo. His insistence that Smash likely couldn’t be made without him and that “we’ll see what the future holds” in the last Smash Ultimate episode makes me think that if he’s not already working on it, he’s definitely preparing.

 

[fogbadge]

There’s a discussion to be had about Studio S isn’t there? It’s clear that Bamco is rebranding the team in preparation for something and considering this is specifically the studio that made the last 3ish Smash games and they decided, of all the possible names, to use “S” is in my mind pretty telling. Super, Smash, Sakurai, Sora.

We are pretty much without a doubt on the advent of Nintendo’s next console as much as Nintendo loves to deny it. I think it’s wholly possible that development for the next Smash could kick into full force soon especially if they are wanting to get the ball rolling early enough to make it in the first few years of the next console AND give them enough time to flesh the whole thing out.

Looking at some of Sakurai’s statements it seems like he has to have had discussions with Nintendo. His insistence that Smash likely couldn’t be made without him and that “we’ll see what the future holds” in the last Smash Ultimate episode makes me think that if he’s not already working on it, he’s definitely preparing.

they’re remaking sunshine

 

[EarlTamm]

There’s a discussion to be had about Studio S isn’t there? It’s clear that Bamco is rebranding the team in preparation for something and considering this is specifically the studio that made the last 3ish Smash games and they decided, of all the possible names, to use “S” is in my mind pretty telling. Super, Smash, Sakurai, Sora.

We are pretty much without a doubt on the advent of Nintendo’s next console as much as Nintendo loves to deny it. I think it’s wholly possible that development for the next Smash could kick into full force soon especially if they are wanting to get the ball rolling early enough to make it in the first few years of the next console AND give them enough time to flesh the whole thing out.

Looking at some of Sakurai’s statements it seems like he has to have had discussions with Nintendo. His insistence that Smash likely couldn’t be made without him and that “we’ll see what the future holds” in the last Smash Ultimate episode makes me think that if he’s not already working on it, he’s definitely preparing.

I think there is more to this team than Smash if the stuff about a Nintendo action game being remastered by them pans out, but it is totally going to be Smash focused. Even that remake could still be Sakurai linked if it is Kid Icarus Uprising.

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah actually I think they can't wait to get the next console out but have to prepare for demand meaning global supply chains need to be pre pandemic stable which isn't possible right now because of two wars and a recession. If anything we maybe have to wait until 2025 for the next console but if so then the next game arrives no later than 28 imo and that's fine I can hang ... Not really lol. But anyway about the next console HOPEFULLY they've fixed "Joy-con Drift"... I personally believe it should be called Bluetooth drift bc I have experienced the same glitch using multiple controllers but they all use Bluetooth like the Joy-Con .

 

[Stratos]

No one knows when they will air the trailer for Nintendo's new console, but rumors say it will be sometime in April 2024. As for the new Super Smash Bros. game, as some have mentioned it might be released sometime in 2025 and I can't wait to see what Adventure Mode will be like and what story it will have and above all how and who will be the Final Boss in this Adventure Mode of the new game Super Smash Bros., like everyone of course.

 

[RouffWestie]

I'm fully prepared for fake leakers to start making up reveal dates for the Nintendo 2witch and Smash Ultimate Special Edition, which will 100% always have Geno as one of the newcomers.

 

[Stratos]

I have a preference for many video game characters to come as newcomers to the new Super Smash Bros. game, but if it's none of them and it's others I don't mind I will settle for them too.

 

[Ivander]

I'm fully prepared for fake leakers to start making up reveal dates for the Nintendo 2witch and Smash Ultimate Special Edition, which will 100% always have Geno as one of the newcomers.

Which is why I'm hoping that if Geno is in the next Smash Bros., they reveal him in the first or second trailer much like how fast Ridley was revealed. So that he's not that 101 mandate for Smash leaks.

And Smash leaks are going to take an interesting turn what with AI art generators available. And how they are responded to will be another story, on whether mods are going to let leaks do as they do or do not take any chances and just outright ban any "leaked images".

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Geno is square enix, he will be dlc lol

 

[Kirbeh]

Honestly if Geno actually makes it in, I do think he'd be base game and treated like a regular Mario newcomer. Then all the other SE characters are the ones who get resold to us as DLC.

People will complain but Cloud and Sephiroth are Cloud and Sephiroth, they'll buy them anyway.

 

[Louie G.]

Honestly if Geno actually makes it in, I do think he'd be base game and treated like a regular Mario newcomer. Then all the other SE characters are the ones who get resold to us as DLC.

I'm torn on this. I feel like one of Cloud or Hero will be on base roster and figured they would mandate a new character as DLC once again to lock in at least some SE content for base roster. I'm like dead-on 50/50 on who they would prioritize to return right now.

So beyond that, Geno feels like he could go either way if they wanted to add him - I think this is a character that SE wouldn't care very much about handing over, at least especially compared to FF or DQ which are not only massive but have assets where other artists and composers etc will need to be in contact to negotiate. I mean, they were able to land him for a Mii Costume as far back as Smash 4 anyway. I could see it working out this time.

Although personally I've kind of retired the guy until further notice, even though now is a better opportunity for him than ever and maybe Sakurai and Co would like to capitalize on that. Suppose we'll see what happens but if they want a hot button Mario newcomer, Waluigi is right there and costs them nothing at all to appeal to an audience 5x the size. And just for reference I've been historically very positive toward Geno, I'm not trying to shut it down.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Assuming he would get in as a fighter, I could see something similar to Joker with Geno where he's not technically in the base game but is announced as DLC very early (possibly even before its released) to effectively have him featured at launch in a sense.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm torn on this. I feel like one of Cloud or Hero will be on base roster and figured they would mandate a new character as DLC once again to lock in at least some SE content for base roster. I'm like dead-on 50/50 on who they would prioritize to return right now.

So beyond that, Geno feels like he could go either way if they wanted to add him - I think this is a character that SE wouldn't care very much about handing over, at least especially compared to FF or DQ which are not only massive but have assets where other artists and composers etc will need to be in contact to negotiate. I mean, they were able to land him for a Mii Costume as far back as Smash 4 anyway. I could see it working out this time.

Although personally I've kind of retired the guy until further notice, even though now is a better opportunity for him than ever and maybe Sakurai and Co would like to capitalize on that. Suppose we'll see what happens but if they want a hot button Mario newcomer, Waluigi is right there and costs them nothing at all to appeal to an audience 5x the size. And just for reference I've been historically very positive toward Geno, I'm not trying to shut it down.

Even with the remake, I don't think his chances have improved much, but going along with the scenario that he does get chosen, I put him as base because at the end of the day he is a Mario character. An obscure Mario character from an old RPG with a cult following but not as much wide appeal.

I simply see it as Square standing to gain more from reselling as DLC. I do think it's possible that at least one of either or makes it back in base, but I wouldn't be surprised if they all get saved for DLC either.

They allow Sakurai/Nintendo to prioritize the cult/fan favorite who they can't really use otherwise anyway and get to make more money from their vets and any potential proper SE newcomers as DLC.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think Geno making it in is almost completely based on what kind of game the next Smash is.
If it's an Ultimate port or it builds off of Ultimate, he has a great shot.

If it's a new game in a new style or a game with a much smaller roster, I don't see him happening.

 

[Sucumbio]

Geno will be there. On this hill, I die.

x.x

 

[fogbadge]

Geno will be there. On this hill, I die.

i think i can see you from the chibi-robo hill i'm on

 

[toonito]

funny enough I actually feel Cloud has a good shot of returning and becoming a permanent fixture for SE in Smash. Its the other SE characters Im not sure about.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

There’s a discussion to be had about Studio S isn’t there? It’s clear that Bamco is rebranding the team in preparation for something and considering this is specifically the studio that made the last 3ish Smash games and they decided, of all the possible names, to use “S” is in my mind pretty telling. Super, Smash, Sakurai, Sora. Looking at some of Sakurai’s statements it seems like he has to have had discussions with Nintendo. His insistence that Smash likely couldn’t be made without him and that “we’ll see what the future holds” in the last Smash Ultimate episode makes me think that if he’s not already working on it, he’s definitely preparing.

It's safe to the Project Plan is mostly liken be written or being prepared as we speak.

If that was the case, what newcomers do you think are relevant right this period that Sakurai could consider for his plan? Nintendo or any 3rd Party.

Other than Geno, I would say Rayman is looking quite good. Better than he was before