Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Oracle Link]

Why young Ruto specifically? Her adult design is the one people remember. (For better or worse, water temple flashbacks)



Ace Attorney's first few games were originally release on the GBA and then later remastered for DS.

It's why Phoenix's themes in the first three games are labeled "Objection-2001" "Objection-2002" and "Objection-2004"

I dunno just thought its time for a young female character most in the game are Teens or avatars!
But granted that role could be filled by Medli with Makar!

 

[Sucumbio]

You can though for the most part. Jabs and tilts will always be Bronze Sword, Smash attacks will always be Levin Sword if you have it and Air attacks is where it gets tricky, but you can control it.

1. When you have your Levin Sword out, any Air attack you use will always use the Levin Sword.
2. When you have your Bronze Sword out, any Air attack you use will use the Bronze Sword, but smashing in a direction and pressing the A button around the same time will treat your Air attack like you are doing a Smash attack in the air and bring out the Levin Sword. You need to be tilting the control stick for a couple milliseconds before pressing A to use the Bronze sword.
3. You can do a couple things to avoid using your Levin Sword for Air attacks. First off, if your Bronze Sword is out, Neutral Air will always be your Bronze Sword. Neutral Air will never force the Levin Sword out, as long as you have your Bronze Sword out beforehand.
   For your other Air attacks, your first option is to tilt in the direction you want to attack in the air before jumping and pressing A. Like if you are moving forward and are about to short-hop Forward Air, keep tilting forward before and during your Jump. Forward Air and Down Air are very consistent and allow you to keep your Bronze Sword during shorthops Forward Airs or Down Airs.
   The main issue is with Up-Air and Back Air. For some reason, even if you are tilting up beforehand, trying to do a quick short-hop Up-Air with Bronze Sword always forces the Levin Sword. Back-Air Bronze-Sword is hard to do without smashing back because Robin doesn't work like the Fighting game characters and trying to do a backhop into Back-air forces you to face in the direction you try to backhop into.
   Which is where Option two comes. Tilting in a direction for around half a second while in the air will always result in Bronze Sword for all directions. As long as you don't smash the control stick to do an air attack, you will not use the Levin Sword.
   So you can't short-hop Up-Air or Back-Air sadly, but you can short-hop Forward Air and Down Air without much issue.

This is great!

This also highlights exactly what I don't like about Robin though. Like I get the tactician thing but that's just more than I care to think about as I'm playing. Give him only Levin Sword, make it never degrade, make all spells never degrade, now that would be boss. If you HAVE to include a durability mechanic then make it to where at the least you can always cast the tier 1 spells and only limit the 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Garteam]

So what are your thoughts on Robin as a Smash character? Should they be a character? Should their moveset change? Is the portrayal accurate?

Robin is my favourite Smash for Wii U/3DS newcomer after Mega Man. Awakening is always a game that will have a special place in my heart and using the Avatar to differentiate its Smash rep from Marth and Ike was pretty ingenious, especially now that Chrom and Lucina are both in the game as echoes. Robin's gameplay is also a lot closer to the core of how a Fire Emblem character should theoretically function. Having a wide range of situational tools and needing to employ them strategically to bait and punish is a lot more evocative of a strategy game relative to just rushing people down and spamming your best option. They also did a really good job with depicting the general tone and personal traits of Robin as a character in Awakening. It's not easy to depict a respectful, intelligent, but highly self-critical character in a game as upbeat and fast-paced as Smash.

I'd be lying if Robin didn't feel like one of, if not the most, powercrept characters in the game. The strength of his tomes and levin sword don't meaningfully offset his durability or mobility presently. Steve has the same broad weaknesses as Robin, but he gets so much more in exchange. That's not to say Robin should be as oppressive or lopsided as Steve, but he desperately needs some buffs. HDR had the right idea by making Elwind into a strong movement tool that allows Robin to have more mix-up options.

In terms of whether or not Robin will return, I think he's right in the middle of the Fire Emblem hierarchy. Marth is obviously at the top, but Ike and Byleth would also likely outprioritize him due to the former having seniority and generally being popular and the latter being the face of the most successful game in the franchise. At the same time, he'd get in before Roy or Corrin due to Awakening's importance, his status as the first Fire Emblem Avatar (I wouldn't count Kris), and him being a mage in a sea of physical units. He's a borderline case that I could see going either way.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Re: Fire Emblem in Smash
I do wonder what priorities the FE cast will have going into next game.

Marth is the poster boy, and Byleth’s from the most successful game. Ike’s also very popular.

Awakening will likely still get a rep. If resources are strained, Lucina could come back as an echo again. Robin is the preferred option by the majority of the Smash fandom because of him being a mage. Chrom is the face of the game, and got in due to popular demand.

Roy and Corrin are seemingly agreed as expendable cuts. Though I do wonder if Roy’s absence boosts Chrom’s chances.

It’s like a copy of a copy (or a clone of a clone in this case). Eventually the copy becomes different enough from the original thing.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Fire Emblem is easy. In this order:
Obligatory: Marth, Byleth/Ike, New Fire Emblem Lord
If they have time: Ike/Byleth, Robin, Roy
RIP: Corrin

Extra: Lucina, Chrom

 

[Perkilator]

I do think Marth/Ike/Robin/Byleth is the ideal order of FE veterans.

 

[Garteam]

Re: Fire Emblem in Smash
I do wonder what priorities the FE cast will have going into next game.

Marth is the poster boy, and Byleth’s from the most successful game. Ike’s also very popular.

Awakening will likely still get a rep. If resources are strained, Lucina could come back as an echo again. Robin is the preferred option by the majority of the Smash fandom because of him being a mage. Chrom is the face of the game, and got in due to popular demand.

Roy and Corrin are seemingly agreed as expendable cuts. Though I do wonder if Roy’s absence boosts Chrom’s chances.

It’s like a copy of a copy (or a clone of a clone in this case). Eventually the copy becomes different enough from the original thing.

I think Chrom is more or less tied to Roy at this point. It would be weird to do one with the other. They are still very similar, despite Chrom being one of the more unique echoes.

If Roy is in, Chrom is in. If Roy isn't in, Chrom isn't in.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I feel like I'm the only one with the hot take of wanting Corrin over Byleth.

I enjoyed Three Houses and absolutely love Byleth but I'm just not a fan of the moveset...

I dunno, I feel like Byleth's implementation lacks the usual soul and passion newcomers get and that the moveset of cobbling together four Relics solely exists so that we get a swordfighter that's more than just sword.

Compare that to Corrin who unironically makes more use of the dragon powers than even Fates does and has this very unique shapeshifter moveset.
Though the Omega Yato also feels very forced. Casually spoiling a weapon from Revelation, which is now legally lost media, just for one move is weird.

Looking forward to the death threats for even suggesting to keep Corrin

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I do think that people underestimate just how negative Byleth's initial reception was.

Yeah, it was immature and Byleth's addition has aged like fine wine. But that backlash was massive. Sakurai anticipated some backlash and the backlash happened in a way that Nintendo does pay attention to. YouTube likes and Twitter.

I think they may learn the wrong lesson and that Byleth was the problem and not the large amount of FE characters. I don't think he's as likely as people think.

 

[Will]

Why is Corrin seen as expendable?

No Smashboards, “Fire Emblem Fates bad” is not an answer.

“Advertisment character” is not an answer either.​

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why is Corrin seen as expendable?

View attachment 389296

No Smashboards, “Fire Emblem Fates bad” is not an answer.

View attachment 389297

“Advertisment character” is not an answer either.​

Congratulations, you left Smashboards speechless

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why is Corrin seen as expendable?

View attachment 389296

No Smashboards, “Fire Emblem Fates bad” is not an answer.

View attachment 389297

“Advertisment character” is not an answer either.​

Corrin is generally one of the least popular lords in the franchise. They're not universally hated, but they are definitely controversial in the FE franchise.

 

[DarthEnderX]

No Smashboards, “Fire Emblem Fates bad” is not an answer.

...but it is. Why would people want a character from a game nobody liked in Smash?

 

[Oracle Link]

BTW when it comes to fire emblem it seems the disliked games are the ones that got the worst Localization!
Like Fates and Engage got some really terrible ones!

Granted TOTK also has a bad english localization but its still not hated!
It would be cool to see a Literal English option for the next game were all names get changed back to their Original Japanese ones!
I mean i think having King Koopa and others as options while keeping the text understandable would be cool!

 

[Will]

...but it is. Why would people want a character from a game nobody liked in Smash?

Ask Roy, a character from a game nobody liked, who is also in Smash.

Corrin players mostly aren’t playing Corrin because they’re diehard fans. Corrin is a great Smash Bros character that is fun to play.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ask Roy, a character from a game nobody liked, who is also in Smash.

Corrin players mostly aren’t playing Corrin because they’re diehard fans. Corrin is a great Smash Bros character that is fun to play.

Admittedly yeah. Corrin is great in games that aren't their own.

Smash Bros, Fire Emblem Warriors and Fire Emblem Heroes all have the positives or Corrin with none of the downsides.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I feel like I'm the only one with the hot take of wanting Corrin over Byleth.

I enjoyed Three Houses and absolutely love Byleth but I'm just not a fan of the moveset...

I dunno, I feel like Byleth's implementation lacks the usual soul and passion newcomers get and that the moveset of cobbling together four Relics solely exists so that we get a swordfighter that's more than just sword.

Compare that to Corrin who unironically makes more use of the dragon powers than even Fates does and has this very unique shapeshifter moveset.
Though the Omega Yato also feels very forced. Casually spoiling a weapon from Revelation, which is now legally lost media, just for one move is weird.

Looking forward to the death threats for even suggesting to keep Corrin

If it was only up to my personal taste, yes, definitely, I'd keep Corrin over Byleth.
My nick is Scrimblo Bimblo and I've just dunked on Robin in the previous page, but I don't find Byleth to be super interesting either. Special moves are very funny, especially the bow, but overall I don't know. To me he feels more like spicy Ike than anything to be honest.

But this is a case where the "outside of Smash" is too prevalent. Three Houses is way more popular than Fates, Corrin is never going to get in over Byleth.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

idk fates being a bad rpg is probably a valid reason

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

BTW when it comes to fire emblem it seems the disliked games are the ones that got the worst Localization!
Like Fates and Engage got some really terrible ones!

Correlation does not cause causation.

Three Houses also has a terrible localization due to the sheer amount of gay erasure and it's still the most beloved game in the franchise.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the actual gameplay of Fates was fun. The maps were really creative. I feel like the characters, story, and dating sim elements dragged it down for me. I did like several more minor characters like Rhinka and Rhajat but I wasn’t really feeling Corrin or most of their family members on either Nohr Hoshido’s side. In Smash, Corrin has a unique and fun moveset so I’m fine with them even if I wasn’t huge on aspects of the game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ask Roy, a character from a game nobody liked, who is also in Smash.

Corrin players mostly aren’t playing Corrin because they’re diehard fans. Corrin is a great Smash Bros character that is fun to play.

Yeah but Smash fans latched onto Roy, and did the opposite to Corrin. Even if being aggressively disliked all around isn't usable as a reason to cut Corrin, people are going to say that he's unlikely because they themselves want him gone.

I don't feel one way or the other about him, but I do think that if any Fire Emblem characters are getting cut, Corrin has the least amount of...clout (for lack of a better word) keeping him in. You've got the series mascot, a beloved Smash character, a beloved Fire Emblem character, a rep from one of the most important games in the series, a rep from a recent success, and then there's Corrin who's a controversial character from a controversial set of games. Doesn't mean he's a loss that won't be felt, but I do think it means that he's the first to go, and the easiest cut.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think the actual gameplay of Fates was fun. The maps were really creative. I feel like the characters, story, and dating sim elements dragged it down for me. I did like several more minor characters like Rhinka and Rhajat but I wasn’t really feeling Corrin or most of their family members on either Nohr Hoshido’s side. In Smash, Corrin has a unique and fun moveset so I’m fine with them even if I wasn’t huge on aspects of the game.

Yeah, Fates is a game of some extremely high highs and pitiful lows.

It's not universally hated. It's just controversial.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ask Roy, a character from a game nobody liked, who is also in Smash.

Now now, you're confusing a game nobody played with a game nobody liked.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, Fates is a game of some extremely high highs and pitiful lows.

It's not universally hated. It's just controversial.

I haven’t played it yet but I’m hearing a lot of the same criticisms for Engage. Mainly that the battles are a lot of fun but the story and characters aren’t great. Thats a huge aspect of what I like about the series and what I’ve seen hasn’t really clicked with me so Engage was the first mainline FE I’ve passed on since I started the series with Path of Radiance. Maybe I’ll give the game a shot some day.

 

[fogbadge]

I do think that people underestimate just how negative Byleth's initial reception was.

Yeah, it was immature and Byleth's addition has aged like fine wine. But that backlash was massive. Sakurai anticipated some backlash and the backlash happened in a way that Nintendo does pay attention to. YouTube likes and Twitter.

I think they may learn the wrong lesson and that Byleth was the problem and not the large amount of FE characters. I don't think he's as likely as people think.

well i'm certainly not as annoyed with his inclusion as i was. not i just annoyed with his moveset

 

[Gengar84]

I’m just kind of tired of silent avatars in general, particularly as Smash characters. I personally prefer when a character can express emotions and has some kind of personality. I feel like Robin pulled off the avatar theme really well but Byleth is too much for my tastes. I know silent avatars exist to help the player connect with the character by putting yourself in their shoes but I feel they have the opposite effect on me. I honestly much prefer Shez (from Three Hopes) as a character to Byleth. I’m not sure whether that’s a hot take or the general sentiment.

 

[Garteam]

I do think that people underestimate just how negative Byleth's initial reception was.

Yeah, it was immature and Byleth's addition has aged like fine wine. But that backlash was massive. Sakurai anticipated some backlash and the backlash happened in a way that Nintendo does pay attention to. YouTube likes and Twitter.

I think they may learn the wrong lesson and that Byleth was the problem and not the large amount of FE characters. I don't think he's as likely as people think.

I think Sakurai's awareness that Byleth would get a bad reception and the rehabilitation of his inclusion over the past four and a half years has reduced the probability he'd be cut due to the initial backlash. If anything, I think Sakurai and Nintendo's takeaway from Byleth's inclusion was the general attitude of consumers is that there are presently too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash, rather than Byleth himself being a problem.

Corrin, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant all had contentious announcements and are often seen as some of the most likely characters to be cut, but correlation doesn't equal causation here. These characters are moreso likely to be cut because they're from franchises with a large number of supporting characters and there are 5 to 8 veterans in those franchises that fans generally agree out-prioritize these characters.

 

[fogbadge]

I’m just kind of tired of silent avatars in general, particularly as Smash characters. I personally prefer when a character can express emotions and has some kind of personality. I feel like Robin pulled off the avatar theme really well but Byleth is too much for my tastes. I know silent avatars exist to help the player connect with the character by putting yourself in their shoes but I feel they have the opposite effect on me. I honestly much prefer Shez (from Three Hopes) as a character to Byleth. I’m not sure whether that’s a hot take or the general sentiment.

I feel the reverse is true. I feel a silent protagonist is better than an avatar character who speaks cause they often have such ordinary personalities it doesn’t feel like there’s any substance to them

 

[Gengar84]

I feel the reverse is true. I feel a silent protagonist is better than an avatar character who speaks cause they often have such ordinary personalities it doesn’t feel like there’s any substance to them

I think Robin was a good example of an avatar that speaks. They still showed a good amount of emotion and personality despite being an avatar character. What’s an example of a speaking avatar you feel wasn’t handled well? For me, silent avatars just make conversations between them and their party members feel kind of awkward. Overall, I prefer actual, established main characters over any kind of avatar, silent or otherwise. Thats just my personal opinion though.

 

[Will]

Admittedly yeah. Corrin is great in games that aren't their own.

Smash Bros, Fire Emblem Warriors and Fire Emblem Heroes all have the positives or Corrin with none of the downsides.

It’s all about the gameplay. That’s my point.

idk fates being a bad rpg is probably a valid reason

It’s been eight years, let it go.

Now now, you're confusing a game nobody played with a game nobody liked.

What’s the difference? Roy still came back by popular demand despite that. I guarantee you a cut Corrin would see demand for a return via DLC.

Yeah but Smash fans latched onto Roy, and did the opposite to Corrin. Even if being aggressively disliked all around isn't usable as a reason to cut Corrin, people are going to say that he's unlikely because they themselves want him gone.

Not since Ultimate. I’ve only seen positives, especially in the competitive scene. You should look into the many recent videos discussing Corrin.

Negatives only seem to happen when people discuss the next entry, because the speculation scene is sooner expecting either The Great Reboot™ or for half of the roster to disappear. Fire Emblem being what it is normally gets mentioned first on the chopping block, and my only point here is that we should look past Corrin’s game and look at Corrin for Corrin in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the actual gameplay of Fates was fun. The maps were really creative. I feel like the characters, story, and dating sim elements dragged it down for me. I did like several more minor characters like Rhinka and Rhajat but I wasn’t really feeling Corrin or most of their family members on either Nohr Hoshido’s side. In Smash, Corrin has a unique and fun moveset so I’m fine with them even if I wasn’t huge on aspects of the game.

From my time playing Fire Emblem Warriors, these are my impressions of the characters:

• Corrin: Hates violence and is humorously polite even while fighting.
• Xander: Soft spoken and polite, but will do anything to protect his friends/kingdom.
• Leo: A dork who tries to act all serious and mostly succeeds.
• Eliese: Her entire character is being a small child.
• Camilla: "Lets take Tharja and make her a dominatrix. That'll be popular! What? The avatar's her sibling? Eh, it's probably fine."
• Ryoma: Boring.
• Takumi: Angstey teen.
• What's her face: The "shy to the point of having 0 self confidence" trope.

Overall, they are extremely tropey, and very few of them appeal to me, likely due to the tropes usually being there to be funny, and it's just not funny to me.

 

[fogbadge]

I think Robin was a good example of an avatar that speaks. They still showed a good amount of emotion and personality despite being an avatar character. What’s an example of a speaking avatar you feel wasn’t handled well? For me, silent avatars just make conversations between them and their party members feel kind of awkward. Overall, I prefer actual, established main characters over any kind of avatar, silent or otherwise. Thats just my personal opinion though.

corrin and alear. they’re still likeable but I spent most of the game thinking “how are you this calm with your backstory”

 

[Gengar84]

From my time playing Fire Emblem Warriors, these are my impressions of the characters:

• Corrin: Hates violence and is humorously polite even while fighting.
• Xander: Soft spoken and polite, but will do anything to protect his friends/kingdom.
• Leo: A dork who tries to act all serious and mostly succeeds.
• Eliese: Her entire character is being a small child.
• Camilla: "Lets take Tharja and make her a dominatrix. That'll be popular! What? The avatar's her sibling? Eh, it's probably fine."
• Ryoma: Boring.
• Takumi: Angstey teen.
• What's her face: The "shy to the point of having 0 self confidence" trope.

Overall, they are extremely tropey, and very few of them appeal to me, likely due to the tropes usually being there to be funny, and it's just not funny to me.

Yeah, I agree with that. Fates did have Rhinka though, who is up there with my favorite characters in the series, so that’s something at least. I was also a big fan of Tharja in Awakening and Rhajat is basically Tharja again. I didn’t like Camilla though. It felt like they went way too hard on that aspect to the point where that was her entire character. Her being Corrin’s sister made it even worse, even if they weren’t related by blood.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

From my time playing Fire Emblem Warriors, these are my impressions of the characters:

• Corrin: Hates violence and is humorously polite even while fighting.
• Xander: Soft spoken and polite, but will do anything to protect his friends/kingdom.
• Leo: A dork who tries to act all serious and mostly succeeds.
• Eliese: Her entire character is being a small child.
• Camilla: "Lets take Tharja and make her a dominatrix. That'll be popular! What? The avatar's her sibling? Eh, it's probably fine."
• Ryoma: Boring.
• Takumi: Angstey teen.
• What's her face: The "shy to the point of having 0 self confidence" trope.

Overall, they are extremely tropey, and very few of them appeal to me, likely due to the tropes usually being there to be funny, and it's just not funny to me.

I can't tell if forgetting Hinoka was intentional or not.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I can't tell if forgetting Hinoka was intentional or not.

Oh yeah her. I was sitting there thinking "There's gotta be another one. who was that?" lol

Now that I've remembered her, I think I know why I forgot her: IIRC her entire personality was wanting to get stronger to defend Hoshido.

corrin and alear. they’re still likeable but I spent most of the game thinking “how are you this calm with your backstory”

I think I've only seen up to Chapter 4 (+ some memes), but from what I've seen I do like how Alear being cautious seems to be a consistent character trait of hers. Sometimes its as a gag, sometimes its just her being the only one with brain cells, but it does give her at least some depth.

 

[osby]

Camilla: "Lets take Tharja and make her a dominatrix. That'll be popular! What? The avatar's her sibling? Eh, it's probably fine."

I mean... they weren't wrong.

 

[fogbadge]

Oh yeah her. I was sitting there thinking "There's gotta be another one. who was that?" lol

Now that I've remembered her, I think I know why I forgot her: IIRC her entire personality was wanting to get stronger to defend Hoshido.


I think I've only seen up to Chapter 4 (+ some memes), but from what I've seen I do like how Alear being cautious seems to be a consistent character trait of hers. Sometimes its as a gag, sometimes its just her being the only one with brain cells, but it does give her at least some depth.

well sure he seems like the only one with any brains when you’re that early and you’ve only met the kids and the dumb best friend

 

[Gengar84]

I mean... they weren't wrong.

The one positive thing I can say about Camilla is that she was voiced by Lulu’s voice actress in Fates. Lulu’s one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters so it was cool to hear her again in something. Too bad Fire Emblem Warriors made almost every character’s voice worse for the ones with new actors.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Negatives only seem to happen when people discuss the next entry, because the speculation scene is sooner expecting either The Great Reboot™ or for half of the roster to disappear. Fire Emblem being what it is normally gets mentioned first on the chopping block, and my only point here is that we should look past Corrin’s game and look at Corrin for Corrin in Smash.

This is how I feel in regards to Incineroar and Piranha Plant. Those are two very well realized characters that shouldn't get the boot just because they're "unimportant".
Corrin too, for what it's worth.

 

[Oracle Link]

BTW lets say smash 6 has 9 Zelda characters (with max 3 alts) by the end of its lifespan i think it could be these:

Spoiler: Link

Spoiler: Small Link

Spoiler: Zelda

Spoiler: Impa/Sheik

Spoiler: Ganondorf

Demonking and normal

Spoiler: Skull kid

Spoiler: Yunobo

Spoiler: Ruto

Spoiler: Octorok

Some other Candidates are: Midna (most popular companion), Bokoblin (most popular 3d Enemy), Rauru, Medli with makar (another ww Rep + both a rito and a korok)

If we dont see these characters in smash 6 i think a zelda fighter/ Smash would be fantastic!