NO PUNCH OUT! IN SSB4 (and here's why).

[PreacherDudeRox]

Just going to come out of nowhere with this one: there will be no Punch Out! characters in SSB4, and on top of that, the new boxing ring stage is not a Punch Out! stage - assuming that it being a Punch Out! stage means a Punch Out! character will be in the game; now here's why.

Imagine this scenario; Sakurai reveals that a certain Punch Out! character is a newcomer - would you really be willing to believe that the boxing ring stage was a Punch Out! stage all along, and consequently, that it was shown off before the actual newcomer? Can you really justify the thought of Sakurai saying "Oh, and Lil Mac's stage? You've actually already seen it - it was that boxing ring stage shown off in the very first trailer"? That would be some strange decision-making on Sakurai's part; to reveal a character's stage before the character himself. I think THAT very point, is what makes it certain, that the stage is not Punch Out! related.

Simply wouldn't make sense, now would it? Now if it was, let's say, a non-series stage like Final Destination or Battlefield, it would be practical to show off exactly how it was shown off in the trailer (since it's not tied to any franchise, besides I guess SSB). Heck, it could be argued/theorized that the same way Brawl introduced a new non-series stage, Battlefield (as an actual selectable stage), SSB4 would introduce a new non-series stage as well, "Boxing Ring" or whatever.

If you take a good look at the boxing ring stage, it's not even themed well enough to be a Punch Out! stage, in my opinion. Nintendo always does an excellent job at representing the franchises in SSB, down to the little things (like Tails, Knuckles, and Silver in Green Hill Zone). I don't think that this time around they've decided to be subtle about what game is being represented in the stage. Sure, even as a Punch Out! stage they'd maybe add a SSB logo on the stage, but to only use SSB themes in the stage and no direct references to the Punch Out! series? Nintendo wouldn't ever do their own property such a disservice; it'd be pretty half-assed. Go ahead and consider that.

MegaMan was shown alongside his stage, and so was Villager - Lil Mac isn't going to be in SSB4 because 1) if the boxing ring stage were a Punch Out! stage, it would've been revealed along with him 2) if it's not a Punch Out! stage, considering that each character gets their own stage, what are the odds of SSB4 having a non-series boxing ring stage and a Punch Out! stage?

I feel that a Punch Out! newcomer would be neither recent & relevant enough (like Villager in SSB4 or Sonic in Brawl) or a forgotten classic making an unforeseen return (like Pit or ROB in Brawl), therefore, probably not being such a great character choice. Heck, those two criteria are the reason why Wii Fit Trainer was a great choice: it's both relevant and unforeseen! Punch Out! is a classic, but it's last iteration was on the Wii, so it's not like anyone has forgotten about it.

Punch Out! fans just have to realise that they may really WANT a Punch Out! character in the game, but it doesn't mean it's a strong possibility - possible isn't the same as likely. I can admit though: the boxing ring stage, all doubts aside, COULD be a Punch Out! stage, but only if there is no Punch Out! newcomer. You obviously understand why now (I've presented the logic behind that already), but not having a Punch Out! newcomer would be the only way it could be possible. Again, I stress that possible isn't the same as likely.

Thank you for your time, let me know what you think.

 

[Vintage Creep]

It's a Punch-Out! stage. Get over it.

 

[PikaJew]

He's a boxer... how is that not a good fit for a fighting game?

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

He's a boxer... how is that not a good fit for a fighting game?

A boxer would be great for a fighting game, but you know that's not Nintendo's base for choosing what characters get in. I'm saying he's not a great fit, for other reasons.

 

[Tepig2000]

Just going to come out of nowhere with this one: there will be no Punch Out! characters in SSB4, and on top of that, the new boxing ring stage is not a Punch Out! stage - assuming that it being a Punch Out! stage means a Punch Out! character will be in the game; now here's why.

Imagine this scenario; Sakurai reveals that a certain Punch Out! character is a newcomer - would you really be willing to believe that the boxing ring stage was a Punch Out! stage all along, and consequently, that it was shown off before the actual newcomer? Can you really justify the thought of Sakurai saying "Oh, and Lil Mac's stage? You've actually already seen it - it was that boxing ring stage shown off in the very first trailer"? That would be some strange decision-making on Sakurai's part; to reveal a character's stage before the character himself. I think THAT very point, is what makes it certain, that the stage is not Punch Out! related.

Sakurai showed a Fire Emblem stage before showing any Fire Emblem character.

 

[PikaJew]

A boxer would be great for a fighting game, but you know that's not Nintendo's base for choosing what characters get in. I'm saying he's not a great fit, for other reasons.

He's from a classic game and has seen new life with a Wii title. Why does that make him unfitting?

I just don't understand that by having the Smash logo on a boxing ring stage automatically rules him out as a character.

Plenty of Smash characters didn't get an official stage. Look at ROB, in All-Star mode you fight him on the classic Mario Bros stage.

 

[FalKoopa]

Little Mac is a shoo-in irrespective whether the Boxing Ring stage is a Punch-Out!! stage or not.

He was a very popular retro, got a revival on the Wii, a WiiWare game as well, and was an assist trophy in Brawl. What exactly is standing in his way?

 

[Tepig2000]

He's from a classic game and has seen new life with a Wii title. Why does that make him unfitting?

I just don't understand that by having the Smash logo on a boxing ring stage automatically rules him out as a character.

Plenty of Smash characters didn't get an official stage. Look at ROB, in All-Star mode you fight him on the classic Mario Bros stage.

This. Ness and Captain Falcon did not have a stage in 64 and Marth and Roy did not have a stage in Melee. Plus, if this is not a Punch Out! stage, Punch Out! could get another stage. It would not be that strange to have two boxing rings because in Melee there's two stages where Whispy Woods blows wind and two stages where you fight in the top of the Great Fox. In Brawl we also have two Pokémon Stadiums.

You said that just wanting a character does not make it likely, but just not wanting it does not rule it out.

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

Sakurai showed a Fire Emblem stage before showing any Fire Emblem character.

Yes, but that's because it's a veteran's stage. Luigi wasn't announced for a while, but obviously there were stages from his franchise revealed already. Veterans are exceptions.

 

[FalKoopa]

Veterans are exceptions.

I simply ask: Why?

You're grasping at straws at this point.

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

He's from a classic game and has seen new life with a Wii title. Why does that make him unfitting?

I just don't understand that by having the Smash logo on a boxing ring stage automatically rules him out as a character.

Plenty of Smash characters didn't get an official stage. Look at ROB, in All-Star mode you fight him on the classic Mario Bros stage.

Yeah, we know that. I just said that in my opinion, the fact that he's not old enough to be a comeback, or recent enough to be a given (like Sonic along with his new game Sonic Lost World) solidifies my belief that he's not getting in.

That's not what rules him out, I think. I think that only having Smash logos around rules the stage out as a Punch Out! stage.

Uhh, name another, because ROB was an exception - he was a peripheral, so he was just tied in to another game/franchise from his era.

Little Mac is a shoo-in irrespective whether the Boxing Ring stage is a Punch-Out!! stage or not.

He was a very popular retro, got a revival on the Wii, a WiiWare game as well, and was an assist trophy in Brawl. What exactly is standing in his way?

Could you phrase that again, I don't think I get what you're saying.

"Yeah, we know that. I just said that in my opinion, the fact that he's not old enough to be a comeback, or recent enough to be a given (like Sonic along with his new game Sonic Lost World) solidifies my belief that he's not getting in."

 

[Deleted member]

In Brawl, we saw Castle Siege long before we saw Ike.

The stage had no direct references to Fire Emblem and was rather vague in design. And now, we have a direct Fire Emblem stage (Arena Ferox) with no Fire Emblem character revealed, let alone one that the stage would be relevant to, such as Chrom.

And Brawl DID NOT introduce Battlefield. Melee did.

 

[Kapus]

Could be a Punch Out Stage, could not. There's no way to know at this point.

Even if the Boxing Ring Stage is Smash original, that doesn't necessarily prevent Little Mac being a playable character. Mac can be a character without a stage.

Brawl introduced a new non-series stage, Battlefield (as an actual selectable stage), SSB4 would introduce a new non-series stage as well, "Boxing Ring" or whatever.

Battlefield was not a new stage in Brawl. It was playable in Melee.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Yes, but that's because it's a veteran's stage. Luigi wasn't announced for a while, but obviously there were stages from his franchise revealed already. Veterans are exceptions.

Little Mac is a veteran, he was a fighter in Brawl

Spoiler

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah, the series tend to change the Battlefield's design every installment.

 

[GreenKirby]

Another guy who thinks he can read the mind of Sakurai, another person in another country

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

This. Ness and Captain Falcon did not have a stage in 64 and Marth and Roy did not have a stage in Melee. Plus, if this is not a Punch Out! stage, Punch Out! could get another stage. It would not be that strange to have two boxing rings because in Melee there's two stages where Whispy Woods blows wind and two stages where you fight in the top of the Great Fox. In Brawl we also have two Pokémon Stadiums.

You said that just wanting a character does not make it likely, but just not wanting it does not rule it out.

That's a great point, I give you that. Here's my opinion, not saying it's fact - I think that with Brawl, we were getting more organized than ever. Every character had a stage, and I don't SSB4 is going to take a step down on that front. And sure, Brawl had two Pokemon Stadiums - that slightly differs from Melee, because Melee's second Great Fox level was a legitimate repeat, but Brawl's second Pokemon Stadium was a comeback stage (in the Melee stages section). Pretty sure that's a exception. Regardless, do you see how Brawl was less riddled clone wise? It's only going to get better with SSB4, so I doubt we'll have a stage repeat, in the form of two boxing rings.

Little Mac is a veteran, he was a fighter in Brawl

Spoiler

Lol, haha, yeah - obviously not.

 

[Tepig2000]

That's a great point, I give you that. Here's my opinion, not saying it's fact - I think that with Brawl, we were getting more organized than ever. Every character had a stage, and I don't SSB4 is going to take a step down on that front. And sure, Brawl had two Pokemon Stadiums - that slightly differs from Melee, because Melee's second Great Fox level was a legitimate repeat, but Brawl's second Pokemon Stadium was a comeback stage (in the Melee stages section). Pretty sure that's a exception. Regardless, do you see how Brawl was less riddled clone wise? It's only going to get better with SSB4, so I doubt we'll have a stage repeat, in the form of two boxing rings.

Yeah I see Brawl had less clones. It does not even have clones, just semi-clones at most. However, if we only get one boxing ring, then I think this one boxing ring is going to be Little Mac's stage.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sakurai showed a Fire Emblem stage before showing any Fire Emblem character.

This. Nearly a year and three months passed between the reveal of Castle Siege and the reveal of Ike so this alone harpoons the OP's theory.

 

[Lugubrious]

I feel that a Punch Out! newcomer would be neither recent & relevant enough (like Villager in SSB4 or Sonic in Brawl) or a forgotten classic making an unforeseen return (like Pit or ROB in Brawl), therefore, probably not being such a great character choice. Heck, those two criteria are the reason why Wii Fit Trainer was a great choice: it's both relevant and unforeseen! Punch Out! is a classic, but it's last iteration was on the Wii, so it's not like anyone has forgotten about it.

Little Mac is more recent than Ice Climbers, Game and Watch, or Shiek and he's far more of a star than the likes of Wii Fit Trainer.

What some of the other guys are saying about a character's stage being revealed before them and the examples of Castle Siege and Arena Ferox are all legitimate. If you think about it, your ludicrous 'veterans are exceptions' rule is broken by Villager, whose stage was in Brawl.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Little Mac is a shoo-in irrespective whether the Boxing Ring stage is a Punch-Out!! stage or not.

He was a very popular retro, got a revival on the Wii, a WiiWare game as well, and was an assist trophy in Brawl. What exactly is standing in his way?

The fact that only die-hard retro nerds know who he is or that he even has a name, let alone exists?

Even the average person nowadays knows who Wii Fit Trainer and even the Villager are and what they come from.

Meanwhile, Little Mac doesn't look distinguishable from any other average boxing character or even real guy. Not much appeal going for him either. I doubt most people even know about Punch Out's Wii game. I sure didn't. XD

 

[Deleted member]

"even the average person nowadays knows who Wii Fit Trainer is"

Yeah, because of her appearance in Smash.
Part of why Wii Fit Trainer worked so well as a surprise is because she went under the radar of practically everyone.

 

[B!ggad]

Look dude, I love how gentle you are getting your point across, but try to avoid talking and thinking in definitives when it comes to Sakurai.

There are no silly rules ("he's neither old nor recent enough!"), there are no silly exceptions to silly rules and if there were, he's certainly not able to follow them himself. We have seen it all.

I feel like the elephant's in the room and yet if we were just being mislead (intentionally or unintentionally), I wouldn't be surprised one tiny bit.

 

[Rosalina suporter]

Just going to come out of nowhere with this one: there will be no Punch Out! characters in SSB4, and on top of that, the new boxing ring stage is not a Punch Out! stage - assuming that it being a Punch Out! stage means a Punch Out! character will be in the game; now here's why.

Imagine this scenario; Sakurai reveals that a certain Punch Out! character is a newcomer - would you really be willing to believe that the boxing ring stage was a Punch Out! stage all along, and consequently, that it was shown off before the actual newcomer? Can you really justify the thought of Sakurai saying "Oh, and Lil Mac's stage? You've actually already seen it - it was that boxing ring stage shown off in the very first trailer"? That would be some strange decision-making on Sakurai's part; to reveal a character's stage before the character himself. I think THAT very point, is what makes it certain, that the stage is not Punch Out! related.

Simply wouldn't make sense, now would it? Now if it was, let's say, a non-series stage like Final Destination or Battlefield, it would be practical to show off exactly how it was shown off in the trailer (since it's not tied to any franchise, besides I guess SSB). Heck, it could be argued/theorized that the same way Brawl introduced a new non-series stage, Battlefield (as an actual selectable stage), SSB4 would introduce a new non-series stage as well, "Boxing Ring" or whatever.

If you take a good look at the boxing ring stage, it's not even themed well enough to be a Punch Out! stage, in my opinion. Nintendo always does an excellent job at representing the franchises in SSB, down to the little things (like Tails, Knuckles, and Silver in Green Hill Zone). I don't think that this time around they've decided to be subtle about what game is being represented in the stage. Sure, even as a Punch Out! stage they'd maybe add a SSB logo on the stage, but to only use SSB themes in the stage and no direct references to the Punch Out! series? Nintendo wouldn't ever do their own property such a disservice; it'd be pretty half-*****. Go ahead and consider that.

MegaMan was shown alongside his stage, and so was Villager - Lil Mac isn't going to be in SSB4 because 1) if the boxing ring stage were a Punch Out! stage, it would've been revealed along with him 2) if it's not a Punch Out! stage, considering that each character gets their own stage, what are the odds of SSB4 having a non-series boxing ring stage and a Punch Out! stage?

I feel that a Punch Out! newcomer would be neither recent & relevant enough (like Villager in SSB4 or Sonic in Brawl) or a forgotten classic making an unforeseen return (like Pit or ROB in Brawl), therefore, probably not being such a great character choice. Heck, those two criteria are the reason why Wii Fit Trainer was a great choice: it's both relevant and unforeseen! Punch Out! is a classic, but it's last iteration was on the Wii, so it's not like anyone has forgotten about it.

Punch Out! fans just have to realise that they may really WANT a Punch Out! character in the game, but it doesn't mean it's a strong possibility - possible isn't the same as likely. I can admit though: the boxing ring stage, all doubts aside, COULD be a Punch Out! stage, but only if there is no Punch Out! newcomer. You obviously understand why now (I've presented the logic behind that already), but not having a Punch Out! newcomer would be the only way it could be possible. Again, I stress that possible isn't the same as likely.

Thank you for your time, let me know what you think.

So Umm..

Theres this stage and its called Arena Ferox,And its from this game called Fire Emblem: Awakening.

And theres not been any character's revealed yet...So i guess cause Little macs not been revealed yet means were not getting any Fire Emblem character's.

Sorry lol your arguments invalid.

I can't.

 

[Delicious Tears]

If Little Mac gets in, then I will laugh at you as you burst delicious tears because of your invalid theory.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

"even the average person nowadays knows who Wii Fit Trainer is"

Yeah, because of her appearance in Smash.
Part of why Wii Fit Trainer worked so well as a surprise is because she went under the radar of practically everyone.

Oh don't delude yourself. You DO realize how extremely well Wii Fit sells, right? Especially in Japan. She's been well known and popular for a long time.

It just wasn't until E3 that everyone else got that fact slapped in their faces and couldn't ignore it anymore. XD

 

[Mypantisgone]

Execpt Wii Fit Trainer isn't even the main character,she wasn't given any character,was forgetable,and people kept playing Punch Out! after they brought it.

And Mac was in Brawl,so Punch Out! + Brawl...

 

[StupendousMike]

Uhh, name another, because ROB was an exception - he was a peripheral, so he was just tied in to another game/franchise from his era.

R.O.B. could have had a stage based on one of the games he was actually used for, Gyromite or Stack-Up. A Gyromite stage could have actually been really cool.

 

[Deleted member]

I shouldn't delude myself? Speak for yourself, mate.

So because numerous adult women and seniors play Wii Fit, it automatically means the "average person" knows about and can recognize the female trainer specifically to the point that she was super popular?
Give me a ****ing break. Sales do not equate to popularity of a specific character, let alone a nameless, optional Exposition Fairy that wasn't even a prime focus compared to the actual point of the game (exercise).

And funny thing, I've known about Little Mac since pre-Brawl, and I hadn't played a single Punch-Out game until late 2009. I didn't even know Wii Fit Trainer existed until E3 2013, and my oldest sister has a Wii Fit.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Execpt Wii Fit Trainer isn't even the main character,she wasn't given any character,was forgetable,and people kept playing Punch Out! after they brought it.

And Mac was in Brawl,so Punch Out! + Brawl...

What "people"? You all 10 out of 100 that heard of the game and got it? Or do you mean the ones who will be asking who this random boxer guy is if he were announced? XD

Seriously, you're trying a bit too hard to grasp at straws for this. It sounds less like actual reason why he could work and more like you're all going "I want him so he should be in no matter what and anyone who says otherwise is wrong!"

Kinda like those Pac-Man "people".

 

[Mypantisgone]

What "people"? You all 10 out of 100 that heard of the game and got it? Or do you mean the ones who will be asking who this random boxer guy is if he were announced? XD

Seriously, you're trying a bit too hard to grasp at straws for this. It sounds less like actual reason why he could work and more like you're all going "I want him so he should be in no matter what and anyone who says otherwise is wrong!"

Kinda like those Pac-Man "people".

I wasn't talking about that but ok.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I wasn't talking about that but ok.

Your last post kinda says otherwise, but if you say so, I'll let that one go. ¦D

Doesn't seem like I'll get any legitimate answers to what I'm curious about to this whole thing anyway, so I'll back out of this thread now. :3

 

[Problem2]

I mean at this point, really anything goes. There are no rules as to who gets in other than they must originate as a video game character first.

 

[Deleted member]

Conversely, this is all I'm hearing out of you, Wave:

"I hate Punch-Out, therefore only few people like it and no one knows who Little Mac is so he shouldn't get in and anyone who says otherwise is lying."

I barely consider myself a fan since I've only played the Wii game, and I also don't have that strong of an opinion for Mac being in Smash (though I would rather see him in than NOT see him), so I don't argue on Mac's side out of bias like you do against; I argue with only logic.

 

[Pazzo.]

They do have a point PDR... I'd just tone your argument down a bit. It was a good try, just not valid.

Funny how this turned into an "Everyone VS. The Creator of the Thread."

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

the clown krusty is me the other guy is the guy who started this

Somebody on gamefaqs posted this. The stars are what sinks it for me. It is absolutely a punch out stage. Does that mean we will absoulutely 100% get little mac? No but this does increase his chances I'd imagine. The punch out games had a bunch of "Circuits" to fight though this one is a "Super Smash Bros. Circuit" if you will. It's actually pretty darn clever.

First off, the audience is human, so you can rule out any possibility that this is a Kirby themed stage (all Kirby boxing rings have Kirby characters instead). The marquee's in the background are all dot styled, which is consistent with the marquees in Punch Out Wii, and even the title screen and round indicators for Mike Tyson's Punch Out.

All logos in Punch Out Wii are adorned with clusters of stars, which are usually in 3's because triple star punches are the most powerful punch in the game, as well as the "leaf vines" on the sides (forgive me; I don't know the term for this) and a ribbon at the top. The logo in the ring, while being smash themed, shares all of these characteristics.

3 star cluster on bottom: http://i.imgur.com/QSCAXpe.jpg
Minor/Major/World Circuit Emblems: http://i.imgur.com/oWzpteX.jpg

The ring ropes are also identical in both color and configuration as the Major Circuit ring in Punch Out Wii. Similarly, the corners are all identical colors and positions as the Punch Out Wii corners.

Major Circuit ropes, and World Circuit ribbon: http://i.imgur.com/UV4O3mB.png

Also, it's worth noting that the final fight in Punch Out Wii, Mr. Sandman, has a very particular entrance for both his Title Defense and Contender fights. He approaches the ring while there's a green laser light show that goes on behind him. Well, check this out...

Sandman intro: http://i.imgur.com/hvnTGDl.png
Mario in the ring: http://i.imgur.com/Odu2I7I.jpg

Same green laser show.

It would be real silly to think this is not a Punch Out themed stage. There is an abundance of intentional details that suggest otherwise.

so what were you saying about the arena not looking like punch out rings and a new one the little dots on the littler baner on the arena matches the dot formation of the world circuit ring in punch out wii

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I thought I would be wasting my time by visiting this thread.


Turns out I was wrong. Thanks for the laughs!

 

[Rosalina suporter]

What "people"? You all 10 out of 100 that heard of the game and got it? Or do you mean the ones who will be asking who this random boxer guy is if he were announced? XD

Seriously, you're trying a bit too hard to grasp at straws for this. It sounds less like actual reason why he could work and more like you're all going "I want him so he should be in no matter what and anyone who says otherwise is wrong!"

Kinda like those Pac-Man "people".

Kinda like them deluded Pac-Man haters.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Yes, but that's because it's a veteran's stage. Luigi wasn't announced for a while, but obviously there were stages from his franchise revealed already. Veterans are exceptions.

You don't know that. No Fire Emblem characters have been confirmed.

 

[Maricalistaro]

Your arguments seem to be based on the fact that you obviously don't want a Punch Out representative rather than reality.