no spikes in SSBB?

[Mr. Derp]

because in the european version of melee, there are no spikes and everything is meteorcancel...able I think its obvious that they tried to eliminate spikes completely, I agree with this because I feel that in this game, with skill, one should almost never be doomed to losing a stock (theoretically, with the right DI, falcon-punches are survivable at 300+%).
But I do beleive that if there are no spikes, then meteor canceling should be harder. I mean, in the european version you can meteor cancel marth's dair at 90 and be able to reach the ledge the ledge again with SHIEK's B-up. If I got slashed downwards with a sword I'm pretty sure I'd be dead.

 

[petre]

and if you got falcon punched in the face with no damage youd think youd be dead, too.
but anyway, i agree, every spike should be cancellable. to an extent. like maybe up to 100%, or to a different percent depending on the character's weight.

 

[pdk]

why on earth would you want everything to be recovered from that easily? having spikes and such makes up for the lack of a health bar, otherwise people would take way too **** long to die

 

[Scar]

I agree with both of you to an extent. I think that Marth's spike takes a bit of skill to land, and in the hands of someone inexperienced, frequently leads to SD's and also a sick lag without an L-cancel.

Being "doomed" to lose a stock is also pretty lame, but great offensive efforts should be rewarded, and Smash has always been more about offense than defense.

Remember in 64 when grabs used to be KO's at 100%?

 

[Red Exodus]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to take a risk [i.e. jump off the stage to set up the spike] to ensure the spike has the intended effect? If so then it should remain, besides, seeing people get spiked is cool.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

I disagree. A spike is a skillfull, fun, and infuriating way to finish someone off. It requires you to put yourself at risk, and also speeds up matches. Aside from that, it's counterable.

 

[Scar]

besides, seeing people get spiked is cool.

Truer words have seldom been spoken.

 

[greenblob]

Well, one great thing about spikes is the combo ability that they carry (pillaring, Falcon's stomp combos, dair combos from SSB (heh, that was the only way Samus could combo back then), etc. I say make meteors/spikes much faster and slightly more powerful (or maybe set knockback) so you can combo with them, but you can still cancel them.

 

[Scar]

Interesting. But the difference between meteors and spikes are that meteors can be cancelled and teched out of.

Falcon's stomp combos are awesome but they're meteors... Falco's pillar is a spike. So there's a difference.

So I guess you're arguing for all spikes to become meteors, which is what this thread is all about in the first place.

 

[Stos]

WTF I need spikes in the game! lol

 

[Firestorm88]

There is nothing more satisfying in smash than landing that well-timed spike.

 

[metroid1117]

I partially agree; there's nothing more gimp than landing a spike at less than 30%, but also it does take some skill and mindgames to set up for that same spike. Like petre said, I believe that they should be meteor cancellable, but there needs to be a limit.

 

[Tera253]

not too concerned about the European version, but...

THEY BETTER DANG WELL KEEP THEM SPIKES IN THE GAME!!!
~Tera253~

 

[Eaode]

the only ones i think need to be fixed are falco's dair (make it a meteor) and fox's shine (idk)

 

[Mr. Derp]

I know marth's dair is hard to lead into and it does look cool, and because it is hard to lead into it should be very hard to meteor cancel, like say if you somehow lead into it at 20%, a falco could just barely make it to the stage. and at 50%, if meteor canceled, a zelda could just barely make it back. I'm saying that meteor canceling should be alot harder and have breifer window to happen. I mean is it really fair that when a marth leads into a spike to the opponent is dead for sure but when a mario leads into his fair(also hard and laggy) that the oppoonent can meteor cancel it and make it back to the stage?

 

[petre]

haha, maybe they should make all meteors into spikes, and remove cancelling alltogether. then nobody could complain...however theyd need to make the spikes have a bit more startup lag or something to even it out.

 

[greenblob]

Interesting. But the difference between meteors and spikes are that meteors can be cancelled and teched out of.

Falcon's stomp combos are awesome but they're meteors... Falco's pillar is a spike. So there's a difference.

So I guess you're arguing for all spikes to become meteors, which is what this thread is all about in the first place.

Spikes don't need to become meteors for stomp combos. As for that part, I was hoping for less laggy spikes/meteors so those combos could become more accessible.

Also, I really like the concept of pillaring (shoot up, spike down, etc. combos) and it's a shame that only Falco can perform such combos. For this, spikes are needed (instead of meteors), but I don't really know how this would balance out.

Anyway, my main point is make spikes/meteors faster for more combo potential.

 

[Scar]

but you can still cancel them.

... so you're arguing for spikes to become meteors. Like I said.

 

[greenblob]

Not necessarily. I'm saying make it so more characters can perform stomp or pillar type combos. The stomp-type combos wouldn't matter if they're cancelable, but if they're going to be faster, most of them should be cancelable. However, meteors don't work for pillar type combos, which I also want to see diversified and brought out.

 

[Justin]

There's no logical reason for them to take out spikes...and the same goes for taking out wavedashing in SSBB. Besides, setting opponents up for spikes is a big part of my game so I hope they won't take out spikes.

 

[Sadnap]

But spikes gives player a fuzzy feeling inside, kinda like that feeling you get when you four-stock someone with G&W.

 

[the problem]

Some spikes should be kept like marth's because his takes skill to pull off etc... but like falco where you can just stand by the edge and short hop and kill them without even jumping off kind of ruins the fun edgeguarding.

 

[Metà]

Spikes can still be teched, and I have survived many high percentage spikes with good DI + ledge-teching... >_>

 

[zerosin]

I disagree. A spike is a skillfull, fun, and infuriating way to finish someone off. It requires you to put yourself at risk, and also speeds up matches. Aside from that, it's counterable.

Spikes require certain sacrifices, esp. to finish tenacious opponents. Spiking off a stage requires some set up. Meteoring (e.g. Falcon's stomp) does too. And certain spikes (e.g. marth's dair) need particular setups or your opponent will screw you over for the missed attack. Spikes should stay. I dunno; don't get hit or something (jk )

 

[The Blackstar]

The European version does have spikes. Well, a spike. The first part (half I think) of Falco's spike animation still spikes. It's not a meteor, it is a spike.

Also, there are lots and lots of times where you don't need to jump off the ledge to meteor or spike somebody. If you get them where they have to slide up the edge to recover with their up-b, you can stand on the edge and spike them, with virtually no danger to yourself. Falcos do it all the time.

The same goes for Marth's spike because it's got decent over-the-edge range.

The only spike that I really hate is Falco's. It's really broken. It starts up fast, in the NTSC version it spikes all the way through the animation, it cancels with almost no lag, and his feet are invincible.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

I think gdorfs down b is till a spike in PAL. and of course shine spiking, but i dunno if that's really spiking.

I f you can edge tech, falcos can never never shuffle spike you on the edge.

and meteoring falcos boot would kill him, since he has so many combos based off it. Imagine if in teh shine to dair combos fox could just jump out of the combo?

It's not a problem for falcon b/c e's combos come from hitting a ground based opponent and popping them up, which can't be cancled.

Face it, if you're recovering up the side of the stage, you can edge/wall tech anything, even shine spikes.

and for the people complaining that one thing or the other is realistic, since when is ANYTHING in the game realistic? If this was realistic, falco and fox would always win because they have laser guns, peach would be royally screwed over, unless her dress actually has spiked flails underneath it and there were turnips everywhere, game and watch would die because his lungs, stomach, nerevous system, and circulation system would make his body fall apart, and captain falcon would incinerate himself.

But i guess what i'm saying is, falco has three big moves. THe boot, the shine, and the laser. Taking the boot is like crippling him. SUre, the shine still has fuctionality w/o the boot, and you can get very basic single or double hit combos, but it'll bcome halfway useless. So you're basically cutting falco in half. Which would suck. You'd have to completely change him, and if he's in the next game, i'd like him at least close to what he's like now. DOing what PAL did was great, because it limited the boot w/o killing falco.

 

[The Blackstar]

Ledge teching will reduce you getting killed by that spike, but it's not going to save you every time. Even the best don't get it every time. Not to mention there are lots of times when the Falco can just keep spiking you over and over until you miss the tech.

I doubt they'll make Falco's a meteor. Like mentioned, it would cripple him.

And you can only tech a shine spike if your character gets knocked over from it.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

no, every char gets knocked the same way in the air, so every char can wall tech it when recovering. Providing you're next to the wall of course, which most shine spikes won't happen next to. So it doesn't matter.

 

[spjd]

Well, I'm from europe.. So, what the heck are spikes?

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Moves that send you straight down(or down close to the veritcal) and that can't be meteor cancled by jumping or doing an up B. The first part of falco's dair and I THINK gandorfs down B are spikes in PAL. Fox's shine is also considerded a spike even though it sends you down at an angle.

 

[Cisne]

only falco have a spike in pal , is a spike for a frame , but its enough.
meteors just sux.... u need to risk urself and they are extreamily easy to recover from. if there are no spikes , they can get rid of the meteors too

 

[Linkster47]

I think they'll get rid of wave dashing because it was a glitch in the first place. Either that or they'll replace the roll with WDing. I'll miss WDing with Marth.

As for spikes, they should change all meteors into them but make them somewhat recoverable, maybe at a certain damage it would kill someone. It's really unfair for a character like Mario to have to set up his meteor, which has terrible lag time, just so his opponent can escape, while falco can kill someone with less than 50% with his dair, which is easy to pull off.

We actually have no solid evidence they'll get rid of spikes, but it is a good assumption.

 

[S_B]

I friggin' hope they DON'T do away with them.

The only reason my brother will even play SSB games is because he loves spikes so much.

And the hell with making it easy to recover from spikes: just make it so they're easier to dodge in the first place and delivering one takes skill to do.

In SSB, spikes were easy to do but most characters had their own ways of avoiding them if you were a semi-decent player.

If, like Sakurai says, this game is to be about more aerial combat, then it should include the spike dance.

Also, why not allow spikes to be countered, like a certain move will grab the player above you and smash them downward? Then it will REALLY require skill to spike people and there's a greater risk in doing so.

 

[Bowserlick]

Spikes and Meteors should stay. But it seems that in Smash Melee the easier to pull of hits are spikes and the harder laggier attacks like DK's forward aerial are Meteors. It seems that Spikes should be the harder ones to pull off. Nintendo got their logic mixed up.

 

[Tristan_win]

Personally I think making every spike cancelable is a great idea especially since some "spikes" in the game were not meant to be a spike at all. (Of course Fox shine spike should still be unchanged since it can be used on the ground.) If anything they should make it so that once you reach 150% that you shouldn’t be able to cancel it…

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

I think they'll get rid of wave dashing because it was a glitch in the first place. Either that or they'll replace the roll with WDing. I'll miss WDing with Marth.

dammit, i wish you people would learn something about sayign WDing is a glitch.

YES, it is a glitch, but the devs DISCOVERED it and INTENTIONALLY left it. This is proved by the fact that in the debug mode(accessable through AR), wavedashing actually has a name (can't remember though, it's something like landsliding).

and yes, it seems like the meteors are the slower attacks(like samus's, yoshi's, gdorfs) while the fast ones are spikes(falco, marth in NTSC, Kirby's).

At a certain percentage unless you prememptively start pressing the button the huan reaction time isn't fast enough to meteor cancel. There might even be an actual period during which you can't meteor cancel, because against training comps like kirby, the MC almost immediately but after a certain percent they don't do it. Or they just have a set reaction time.

 

[Handorin]

WDing isnt a glitch, more of an abuse of the games physics engine. Im glad the devs left it in.

On topic, spikes should stay spikes, meteors should stay meteors; no change should be brought about. Everything is fine the way it is and changing it would hurt/cripple the characters.

 

[_clinton]

I have gotten use to the lag in Meteors and overall I only hit foes down with ch. like falco anyway whenever I ledge guard.

 

[Sensai]

There are more spikes then Falco's Dair in NTSC.

Marth's Dair and Ganon's Down B are also both spikes. True blue spikes, not like Roy's Usmash (why?!) or Fox's Dthrow.

And I'm not sure if they should be kept in Brawl. I like the idea of spiking, but, I think, Meteors do the job adequately.

 

[Cisne]

absolutly not sensai , just check it urself, combo some1 for a spike(meteor) setup , (be succesfull) and see how ur oponent just up B to the edge just after the hit. (Pal)

Spikes or nothing , meteors are useless