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No, that's wrong, you idiot

ndayday

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Link to original post: [drupal=4777]No, that's wrong, you idiot[/drupal]



Being a senior and being six years ahead of my youngest brother automatically makes me his homework checker. Although most times it's more like homework doer. I was initially offered $10/hour for helping him do homework, but that's more than my job, and I knew I wouldn't get payed that much anyway, so I opted for $10 a week. Since I save up my work money that just allows me pretty much an allowance I use on whatever. So it began.

Every day, after we eat, and he's done playing outside, and after he watches one more episode of that, and oh after that too, we do homework. It takes my mom yelling to get him to do it, I don't get involved in that part, I just remind him. Do you think I'm going to argue with an 11 year old? So when it comes time he throws a fit. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, a fit. Frothing at the mouth. Pouting. Barking, using the bathroom indoors, you name it. He'll either be in that kind of mood or plain out rude. I know I'm your brother but I don't like hearing you tell me to "shut the **** up" when I ask you what kind of problems they are. In any case, it can go the somewhat easy way, or the slightly harder way. First way, he'll say he can do the problems and do them at an ok rate I guess. Then I look at the problems and they're all wrong. That's when I take a deep breath and glare at the 30 problems and say, "ok, look at number 1..."
The other way it can go is straight to hell. Head down, crying, turned away from me. Fat drops of tears falling, falling, whoa, there goes number 20. I try to be patient and explain it. I really do. I've drawn pictures, done sample problems, asked him questions to see what he does know, but hot diggity dog! I can't tell you when I learned how to use logic. Doesn't that come naturally? I could tell you when I learned laws and how to use a fork. Those are things that shouldn't come naturally to you. A caveman is not going to figure out Boyle's Law. He can figure out that one stick plus another stick is two sticks. He can figure out that if you want to put ten dinosaurs in separate groups, you can divide them evenly into smaller groups. He can figure out that if you had four times as many dinosaurs as that, you'd have a problem. He can also figure out that if you owe Ooga two sticks, you have to give him two sticks. Why are concepts like these so hard to understand?

I'm not sure if it's just a great desire to uh, not learn, or if he really doesn't get it. If you ask him that he won't respond! Some people can go through life without learning coordinate planes or algebra. That's not possible here though, and he definitely has the ability to do it. I think.
 

Vinylic.

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This reminds me about my cousin in new york.
Having such a hard time doing the work and saying he doesn't know how to do it.
Helping him was a little easy.


That was a year ago. I just got my grade today and:

3 Fs
1 D
1 A
1 B


He's probably doing better than me now.
 

Teran

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It is impossible to tutor family, just quit.
 

Zatchiel

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Were posting grades? Oh boy:
1 F grade
1 D grade
3 B grades
3 A grades

Report cards next week, I'd like to believe I've made some progress.

Edit: Tantrums and tears aren't abnormal for adolescents, apparently. Just try to find other methods of providing assistance, even indirectly, if need be. My younger sibling does actions similar when she can't apprehend what I'm attempting to explain. It's pretty difficult to continue assisting during those times, but I find it best to keep cordial.
:pinkiepie:
 

Johnknight1

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Sounds like you need to quit doing his homework with him. Really, he should be expected to do work on his own. When I was that young (which was a loonnnnggggg time ago in a Galaxy far far away here), the only time I didn't do my homework was when I was ashamed to ask for help (that and because my mother was battling cancer I would often forget my homework out of worrying for her), which I outgrew by the time I was 12 (unless he has some sort of semi-extreme mental handicap, of course).

The problem really doesn't sound like yours, but your family. He should be expected to do his homework without anyone holding your hand. If he was 5 or 6, yeah, he may act that way, but he'll grow out of it. At 11... well, he could still grow up and act his age. It's not as easy as outgrowing acting like a little kid when you're a little kid. Basically if he wants to not do his work and not take responsibility, he can get punished for not doing work and take responsibility for being irresponsible and immature.

Your parents ought to get more involved with your brother. It sounds like they are afraid to deal with it because they don't see him as their problem/responsibility. Your brother probably sees a lack of responsibility, and is copying it. Thus, "family line issues" are born... :awesome:
 

Teran

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I remember when our report cards went A-D for grades and 1-4 for effort (1 being the highest), I got an A4 in music and mathematics.

I actually got in more trouble with my head of year for that than I would have for a C3 or something.
 

Terywj [태리]

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I'm Asian. My grades are naturally phenomenal.

Seriously.

But my roommate is more than a year older than me, took more rigorous courses in high school, went to a more competitive high school, and asks me to check his homework / essays / you name it.
 

juankmlo

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LOL THE ASIAN COMMENT

Well....here i have to do it for free -.-
hahaha, dude is easy money, just try to teach him the very important stuff and in your own funny and educative way lol EASY MONEY
 

UltiMario

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Grades time?

5 Bs
2 As

Odd number because I have a free period.

But yeah, stop tutoring, focus on your own work, etc.
 

Teran

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I would've thought most people on here would be straight A students.
 

Crooked Crow

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I would've thought most people on here would be straight A students.
High school is hardly about academia. It's more or less revolved around disciplinary methods and work ethnics being elevated for adaptation into the job market.

It's a stupid system. You can't even get anywhere without post-secondary education.
 

Teran

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Lolol, that's so lame.

Over here they don't really care much how you behave (if it's not too outlandish) as long as you get good grades.

I mean I got in trouble for coasting but really it was more them being resentful because they knew they couldn't do anything. Sucks to be you guys.
 

Teran

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You have my AIM for idle chit chat you know.
 

Vinylic.

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Lolol, that's so lame.

Over here they don't really care much how you behave (if it's not too outlandish) as long as you get good grades.

I mean I got in trouble for coasting but really it was more them being resentful because they knew they couldn't do anything. Sucks to be you guys.
Must be nice over there eh?

My school is more of a hangout.
People mostly talking about entertainment, shoes, and personal life with facebook on their side.

Only chance of graduating is right there. It's like I'm in a bush of roses trying to find my quarter.
 

Sucumbio

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That's not possible here though, and he definitely has the ability to do it. I think.
What's not possible here? Are you saying your family won't accept that he's a challenged student?

And If he definitely has the ability to do these problems correctly, then this means you've seen indications which support that assumption. However from reading what you've said it doesn't sound like he does? His behavior tells me that he's frustrated, even dreading, doing homework because it's beyond his current learning level. He may need to be held back a year, that can work wonders (I was held back in 2nd grade and went from being a horrible student to a top 5% student). Some kids just need a literal 2 years of the same material to "get it" and this somehow unlocks their brain capacity to where they can absorb new information and retain it. Until that is done, it usually ends up being like spaghetti on a wall; throw it all at him and hope something sticks.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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Misread completely. Have you ever tried having a discussion with him in regards to "basic logic" outside of the context with problems? And what concepts does he not understand. I suppose you need to really go back to the core basics and build up from the foundation all over again. If he's being careless then he needs to be motivated, and that is also another difficult task.

Nday said:
Frothing at the mouth. Pouting. Barking, using the bathroom indoors, you name it. He'll either be in that kind of mood or plain out rude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHwoRFe70jk
 

ndayday

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John I don't think stopping helping would do anything for anyone. Now that's avoiding a problem, I can see what you're saying for other parts, I guess.

Possible here as in that's not going to work in the US. Everything else, I understand.

As far as basic logic goes, it usually ends up with me trying real world examples, and that does seem to help a bit. I don't know how you go about motivating someone to learn something, haha. Also there is a general wish to avert story problems. I thought about explaining how tests like the ACT etc. are mostly story problems, but wouldn't frustrate him further? Not to mention that's still a bit too far away to even matter to him.

Thanks people. Gonna go pee outside now.
 

Big-Cat

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Try teaching the stuff to him in situations where he won't expect it to show up. Try to avoid anything involving academics. A major problem with the school system is that it's sequential learning. You don't see the application until much later on (Calculus anyone?). He may be what you call a "global learner" like I am.

You lose that motivation if all you're doing is going through the motions and you never get an interesting answer as to why you should care about what you're being taught.

Don't use story problems, make the story problems on the go based on the situation. Let's say Mom's driving. He asks how long it takes to get to wherever. Show him how, but don't use "school words".
 

Shorts

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Kuma could be onto something, OR he's a ****ing kid, who doesn't care. I didn't care... I do now though. Maybe he'll grow out of it? I mean, he's only eleven... That's pretty young to give a crap about anything other than pass time interests.

I don't see the big deal, UNLESS he's like... seriously behind?... I mean... is he? Learning is good, but he's in the forth grade. Where nothing matters. So long as he isn't hopelessly lost/behind, I would assume he would PROBABLY grow out of it.
 

Kraivenous

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I would've thought most people on here would be straight A students.
pft I kept A-B status (except geometry. eff that.) all the way til the 2nd nine weeks of senior year then charmed and cheated my way to graduation and had a 3.3 GPA.

But as for the OP, I did the same thing as your brother, he'll grow out of it. :p
 

Fuelbi

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This is why I ****ing hate kids

No offense Nday

And as Kuma says, I Think the problem is that he doesn't give a shot about his academics because he doesn't see how that could apply to him. I know I'm sure as hell here when I say I don't give two shots about most of my school work because I'm plenty sure that for 99% o all occupations, my employer won't ask me to fine the cosine of angle whatever in triangle whatever. I mean, that's my problem and that's why I don't give two ****s about my work, maybe try doing Kuma's suggestion, it could be useful

Btw what normal situation has me using trigonometry to solve my problems? I seriously can't think of anything unless it's something like architecture

:phone:
 

deepseadiva

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11 years old and still throwing fits?

It might not even be an academic problem, the kid's just a brat.
 
D

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Try teaching the stuff to him in situations where he won't expect it to show up. Try to avoid anything involving academics. A major problem with the school system is that it's sequential learning. You don't see the application until much later on (Calculus anyone?). He may be what you call a "global learner" like I am.

You lose that motivation if all you're doing is going through the motions and you never get an interesting answer as to why you should care about what you're being taught.

Don't use story problems, make the story problems on the go based on the situation. Let's say Mom's driving. He asks how long it takes to get to wherever. Show him how, but don't use "school words".
ehm, while this works for a select group of people, our country iss currently in "crisis" because giving kids "realistic" learning (story exercises etc) resulted in a plummet in how well kids were learning math.
 

Meru.

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A caveman is not going to figure out Boyle's Law. He can figure out that if you want to put ten dinosaurs in separate groups, you can divide them evenly into smaller groups. He can figure out that if you had four times as many dinosaurs as that, you'd have a problem.

Ehhh it took me some time to understand this actually. xd


:052:
 

Big-Cat

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ehm, while this works for a select group of people, our country iss currently in "crisis" because giving kids "realistic" learning (story exercises etc) resulted in a plummet in how well kids were learning math.
I'd like to see a source on this as well.
 
D

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our = my country = the netherlands.
how much dutch articles do you want on this subject?
 

Flayl

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I can read your location, haha

I'm just really interested in knowing how a practical approach to teaching math can fail. I know it can curb the flexibility of the best students but otherwise I have trouble seeing what makes it bad.

1 article will do? Babelfish should make the guess work easier.
 

Johnknight1

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John I don't think stopping helping would do anything for anyone. Now that's avoiding a problem, I can see what you're saying for other parts, I guess.

Possible here as in that's not going to work in the US. Everything else, I understand.

As far as basic logic goes, it usually ends up with me trying real world examples, and that does seem to help a bit. I don't know how you go about motivating someone to learn something, haha. Also there is a general wish to avert story problems. I thought about explaining how tests like the ACT etc. are mostly story problems, but wouldn't frustrate him further? Not to mention that's still a bit too far away to even matter to him.

Thanks people. Gonna go pee outside now.
Don't stop helping him; stop doing his work for him. You doing his work is the opposite of helping him; it's hurting him. It doesn't make him want to work. If you do his work for him, why should he try to do it=??? (again, I don't think this is your problem but your parent's problem, as well as your brother's problem)

If you were an adult, and you could whine to get all the money you want, or you could go to work and make modest wages, what would you do=???

Wait... do you go to the bathroom outdoors?
Yes, preferably on my neighbors, cats, and sometimes on the yard of the house that was abandoned! :reverse: :awesome: :cool:

I would've thought most people on here would be straight A students.
Smash Boards could often be a distraction. I think it probably attracts the best of both worlds. Those seeking a distraction to turn their attention from their work... and those seeking something to do (and someone to troll on).

However, being an A student is simple. Take classes in the same 1 or 2 subjects each semester in college. Take 'em at mostly the same time each day. Then, get a study buddy. Then do your work. Then study. Then play Melee. Then beat up your study buddy for cheating at Melee with your controller. Don't stop until he agrees to give you his lunch money, cool jacket with that awesome symbol you think would make anyone look cool, and his sister's phone number so you can call her, ask her out, date her for years, make her fall madly in love with you, promise to her you'll marry her... and then once you graduate get a job thousands of miles away without letting her know! :chuckle: It works like a charm, and makes life all kinds of easy! :bee:

But for realz, people who struggle I find either are slackers who don't want to work, have learning disabilities/difficulties they don't want to accept or deal with, or aren't challenged by their work (I fit all three, and I think most people do as well). What I do is set goals and make them a fun challenge, do 'em, and get hyped when I succeed. The most excited I got was my first semester was when I got my lone C in a class. At the end of the semester, there were 5 people of over 60 left. I had the highest grade, lmao! :laugh:

But really in high school I must admit I hated learning Geometry. That class was all screwy, and I was the only one with serious math difficulties/learning disabilities (ironically my uncle works for a Nobel Prize winner in Science, my grandfather helped build the world's first nuclear power plant, and my dad builds complex solar panels). However, business math on the other side was super hype. That class was so real and so useful. Comparing my Geometry and Business Math courses was like comparing Star Wars to Goodfellas. One isn't real at all, the other kinda is! :cool:

our = my country = the netherlands.
how much dutch articles do you want on this subject?
The Netherlands, America, Canada, the UK, Australia the rest of Europe/North and South America... we're all in the same boat aren't we=???

Entitled kids. Poor parents as role models (parents are kids' #1 role models still!). Poor friend choices. Poor role models that the media hypes as role models. Poor television show characters as role models. That and mediocre education that teaches kids in only a few selective ways instead of teaching them in multiple ways to build them up their knowledge, decision-making ability, critical thinking, motivation, understanding of the world and history, understand of different people/people groups/cultures, understanding of people with opposing viewpoints, and ability to understand themselves.

In other words, welcome to Early 21st Century education/psychology/math/arts/science/sociology/business/culture/religion/politics! :awesome: :reverse: :glare:
 
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