Nope's Monthly "Shugalicious's Sexy Saturday"

[Overswarm]

He did. Falco's a bad character unless there is a LGL or MK ban. Even with the MK ban, a lot of characters can do some serious damage from the ledge.

 

[Teebs]

< This guy is a maybe

 

[Tyr_03]

I disagree with Overswarm

 

[Overswarm]

Your opinion is noted and promptly discarded.

 

[Tyr_03]

lol that's what you always do.

 

[Overswarm]

Only with those who give nothing of value.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Do OS and Tyr have a sitcom yet?

 

[Tyr_03]

I don't know if OS could survive without me. He'd probably die of boredom.

 

[Flawless Fan]

I think he'd just find someone else to disagree with.

 

[Infern Angelis]

its like batman and the joker

 

[QUIVO]

I think it's more like wiley coyote and the roadrunner.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Which one of them thinks it's Duck Season and which one thinks it's Rabbit Season, I think that's the real question.

 

[Tyr_03]

Duck Season! Fire!

 

[clowsui]

Champ plays Falco?

Thought he converted to ******.

he'll keep playing falco so long as i tell him about new tricks and give him advice, unless the agreement changed

 

[Eddie G]

Lol, silly kids. No character can work that ledge like MK
2 frame uair "umbrella" with an abundance of options to recover as a just in case method...get outta here man... xD

Peach can work the edge very well but not in any way that puts Falco at a disadvantage (even if she has the lead). Her ledgehopped uair and nair retain some invincibility frames if timed right and her uair provides a nice drop-down safety attack from the ledge (good range but nowhere near the priority of MK's uair), but her recovery from that point is extremely linear and rather punishable (only one option...), and the same goes for any character other than MK from what I've seen, save maybe...Pikachu and Pit?

Playing the ledge with most characters is gambling. Playing the ledge with MK is playing with loaded dice.

 

[solecalibur]

im eager to hear how a falco delt with a planking metaknight

 

[Overswarm]

im eager to hear how a falco delt with a planking metaknight

The best way to do it is to run forward and powershield the u-air from the ledge, then bair off stage. Jump back to stage (footstool if you want to be tricky, dair if you want to be ballsy). If you miss a powershield, just roll back. If MK doesn't u-air from the ledge you can hit him with all sorts of stuff. Just make sure you DI the u-air right.

It's a stacked game against MK in terms of variance. If MK wins 80% of the time with his u-air but takes more damage than he gives out 10% of the time and dies from the attack the other 10%, it's a solid strategy but overall a gamble. Since MK can be stagespiked by Falco's bair and holding up doesn't save you and MK's only safe attack is one that sends Falco vertically to safety, playing a game of calculated risks with Falco can be beneficial.

Ultimately MK still has the advantage, but Falco is not totally hopeless.

 

[capemkills]

I think it's more like wiley coyote and the roadrunner.

that made me lol

 

[QUIVO]

Does Ally remind anyone else of Brett from Flight of the Chonchords?

 

[Zankoku]

What if MK just uairs twice during his drop from the ledge? It doesn't put him in much worse of a position, since he can safely regrab the ledge if Falco did not place himself in a position to pursue or edgehog, will punish Falco's dropping bair, and still allows MK the option of gliding to the other ledge if Falco chose to shield the uair and remain at the ledge to wait for you to make a (hasty mistake by) trying to get back to that ledge normally. Also, since MK is in the process of uairing, getting footstooled will not force him into the footstool tumble since aerials don't get interrupted by that.

Besides which, powershielding gives negligible advantage compared to normal shielding, when it comes to Meta Knight's uair. It's, what, two frames additional? You're almost better off trying to time the last bit of spotdodge invulnerability to dodge the uair instead, considering Falco's above-average spotdodge animation.

I think wangston just had more experience with the gamble than you did, and happened to take advantage of an element of surprise by jumping straight into a game where odds were heavily against him. I don't think Falco can really take advantage of a situation where the only options to truly endanger Meta Knight involve putting himself at (HUGE) risk, since the only way to really take advantage of that is by scaring the Meta Knight player by doing something stupid (going offstage) into doing something even more stupid (jumping into Falco's bair).

 

[Overswarm]

The only way MK can safely u-air twice is by doing so without jumping. Any attempt to jump before u-airing again results in you getting baired.

It is heavily in MKs favor, but not impossible. Should MK attempt to commit himself to a specific action, Falco can beat it. You name it, Falco can beat it. Planking vs. Falco isn't a "beaten" game unless your reaction time is robotic. Falco's goal is to use the "coin flips" as safely as possible so that MK's punishing attacks result in only a % gain and not a stock gain. MKs goal is to keep himself as safe as possible while punishing with a stock KO where applicable. This puts Falco at a theoretical advantage assuming Falco could keep himself alive and continually attempt to stop MK's planking by getting a stage spike; unfortunately for Falco, MK can put the "trade off" scenario directly in his favor by getting off the ledge after connecting with a u-air (and that's without noticing that MK should have ample opportunity to get a KO if he calls Falco on a particular manuever).

 

[Zankoku]

Why wouldn't you continue falling with that second uair, anyway? Falco pursuing you at that point that far below the stage would likely be suicide, and if he tries to pressure you by positioning himself by the ledge you can glide under the stage to the other ledge (unless it's Yoshi's Island or something), and the answer is obvious if he does neither - just go back up and regrab the ledge. If you can manage an advantage by stock lead then I don't see any reason for the Meta Knight to make risky decisions that could even possibly expose him to an attack that might KO.

 

[fonzi21]

The best way to do it is to run forward and powershield the u-air from the ledge, then bair off stage.

Metaknight definitely has time to react if Falco powershields your up-air, and if you miss your Bair the first time (Which is like a 99% chance you will). Then next time I am going to Fast fall Uair DI'ing myself under the stage and shuttle loop towards the ledge slamming you out into the death zone basically putting you in a very seriously gimpable situation (if i miss hitting you I still land on the stage. and don't die) if not killing you depending on DI, percent, etc., and yes I can react to whether or not you come off the stage. I.E. powershield and don't do anything then I will re-grab the ledge. powershield move to go off the stage I shuttle loop.

And in the case I am a MK main and I do my homework I know Falco's only viable offstage options therefore react accordingly to your first move and there is a possible stock loss for you.

 

[Eddie G]

Too much emphasis on just his uairs and not what he can do to punish Falcos who think they can squeeze a bair in. The MK can just bait with an uair then jump backwards and away from the ledge (avoiding the bair stagespike scenario instantly) then promptly punish Falco with a spaced dair and/or just recover (preferably with a shuttle loop) from that point.

The only potentially dangerous option Falco has when MK is 45 degrees upward from him after a falling bair is a jump to dair. This will only happen if the Falco is willing to put himself at that much risk and/or if the MK is well...foolish enough to simply get hit by it. Either way...it's just one example out of many scenarios that could take place.

Case in point: I understand if you think MK has a potential weakness while on the ledge Overswarm, you're entitled to that. It's just that after playing Jason numerous times and in a ton of friendlies at some Parma tournament, I've come to the realization that simple mixups and bait maneuvers on the ledge amplify MK's already dangerous ledgeplay tenfold. Remember, it could just be used to bait the opponent into a less than favorable position, and recover safely.

 

[Overswarm]

I think you guys are missing the point.

While MK is at a clear advantage, nothing he does is fool-proof. Falco has options, they're just stacked against his favor.


To put this in perspective for you, go sit down with a Falco player and pick MK. Grab the ledge and tell him you're going to do the same thing over and over again and ask him if he can stop it. No matter what you do, he can prevent it. MK has to react appropriately to punish Falco, and if Falco calls him on something he can get a pretty good hit in.

Falco's still bad at ledge play; if I play a Falco I'm gonna grab the ledge. But it isn't impossible anymore than staying away from a D3 grab is impossible.

 

[Eddie G]

Yeah I know what you mean. I was making a different point entirely, that being MK has the best ledge game compared to anyone, especially against a Falco.

Never said fool-proof. xD

 

[Tyr_03]

I doubt anyone thought that MK was literally foolproof on the ledge. Obviously you can't do the same thing over and over or you'll get punished. The point I think people are trying to make is that MK's planking is much simpler and has much lower risk than Falco's anti-planking. If Metaknight plays intelligently he'll be able to play safely on the ledge for a long enough time or for enough damage to Falco that it makes the matchup idiotic and narrows it down to developing one technique: planking.

Less competetive. More boring. No problem with banning planking.

 

[Overswarm]

How does using a winning strategy and completely dominating your opponent by abusing their weaknesses by focusing on your strengths NOT competitive?

That's practically the definition. o_O

You can't make rule changes to remove a character's weaknesses. The solution is to find a new character.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

:| gonna interject here because i can, OS is only human and as good as a planker OS might be he will mess up eventually, it would be....err illogical to say he could do it perfectly forever, so in the case that if MK is planking correctly hes and unstoppable wall of ledge game, there maybe times where the player is not inputting it 100% correctly, not to say that it will happen frequently but in the case of wangston vs OS wangston found a good strategy and it happened to work in his favor, i also believe he got lucky

 

[Kel]

^ If MK is theoretically playing 100% correctly why can't his opponent? I mean, if everyone could play 100% correctly no one would get hit. If MK doesn't have a lead planking does nothing.

 

[Kel]

champ just doesn't know how to do it.

*does the "champ doesn't do it right" dance*

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

I doubt anyone thought that MK was literally foolproof on the ledge. Obviously you can't do the same thing over and over or you'll get punished. The point I think people are trying to make is that MK's planking is much simpler and has much lower risk than Falco's anti-planking. If Metaknight plays intelligently he'll be able to play safely on the ledge for a long enough time or for enough damage to Falco that it makes the matchup idiotic and narrows it down to developing one technique: planking.

Less competetive. More boring. No problem with banning planking.

I agree totally with what Tyr said. It really does ruin it for a lot of characters. If Meta Knight didn't plank the match up for Falco would be a hell of a lot better. When the MK planks his laser game is shot out the window. That is majority of Falco's game imo. You take away that, you take away Falco. MK already has enough **** stacked on him, does he realllly need more gay **** on top of that? No.

 

[Overswarm]

Why are you attempting to weaken MK? If he's broken, advocate for him being banned. If he's not broken enough to be banned, pick another character. If you're banning MK from grabbing the ledge, you need to get rid of D3 and IC Cgs as well. Hell, all CGs and grab releases. That's just for starters; next come projectiles.

 

[Kel]

Can we make rules so Captain Falcon is playable too? I miss playing him =(

 

[Overswarm]

No edgeguarding captain falcon or using shield?

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

D3 and Iceys are not nearly as bad as MK. This has turned in to my opinion vs your opinion. Ya know that right? So either way, we are not wrong...in a way.

 

[Zankoku]

All I'm sayin' is that a Meta Knight camping the ledge with the objective of "standstill" ought not to be threatened by a Falco who doesn't have an identical objective. I've mentioned before that I'm not really in support of a ledge rule or anything, but it doesn't sit well with me to understate Meta Knight's available options/overstate Falco's chances of breaking the standstill.

 

[QUIVO]

^ If MK is theoretically playing 100% correctly why can't his opponent? I mean, if everyone could play 100% correctly no one would get hit. If MK doesn't have a lead planking does nothing.

Powershield requires more precision. Falling double uair, not as strict.

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

Ankoku I agree with.

 

[Kel]

Powershield requires more precision. Falling double uair, not as strict.

What? Vamp was saying that if MK plays perfect no one could do anything. But he was hypothetically talking as if the other player was imperfect. The point is that if anyone could actually play perfectly they wouldn't take damage, regardless of character choice.

The player on the stage gets infinite power shield attempts when running up to the ledge. sit dash distance away from ledge, dash toward ledge, hold shield. If it works, profit. If it doesn't, roll away and try again. Wait for your shield to replenish if you have to.

Can we please just ban Metaknight instead of banning ledge use? I don't even know what thread I'm in anymore. *looks at title* sorry Nope's monthly, I'm not suggesting you do anything with your rules, I was just making general statements.