Not feeling 2.5 sonic

[himemiya]

I use to main sonic in 2.1 but not anymore. Mostly because his side b is slow in the ground (it would of been fine if you did those bull**** tweaks to his down b and still turn around) and I can't kill with his nair since it has a bigger sweetspot plus his dair was better in 2.1 because it was a get away from me type of thing. And please don't give that don't drop him and get use to it thing because I just don't like those changes.

 

[Little Nemo]

If you don't want "get used to it" what do you want us to say?
Too f-ing bad? xD
I still don't understand how to play him, honestly. All his tilts are really weird. Coming out at strange angles and doing awkward kb. His smashes are also weird and kinda slow. So all he has left are aerials but those suck too.
Sonic is weird.

 

[himemiya]

He use to have potental for high tier now he doesn't.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Instead of using Side B like you did in 2.1, use Down B.

only thing is it has a quick charge at the beginning but it basically does all the same stuff like letting you spin into someone then wavedash down.

It feels weird that It does not come out as quick as sonic's 2.1 Side B but you get use to it.

Also, I'm pretty sure his Nair and Bair are the exact same just stronger... I mean his Nair sweetspot seems like it might be even easier to hit now.

 

[himemiya]

No. its also a fact that i can't run and down-b but could run and side b.

 

[Wizzrobe]

No. its also a fact that i can't run and down-b but could run and side b.

Well Yea, Sonic has changed a lot so it's understandable if you don't like his new style.

Side B is just used different now though, instead of popping people up in the air with it like in 2.1, you now use it to trap them inside your spin and bring them offstage or to rack up damage differently.

 

[himemiya]

And it'll be fine if that was his down b and since not its not fine

 

[GHNeko]

How can you not kill with Nair? It's his best overall killing aerial, bro. It's also active longer and has less cooldown, and the sourspot is better than 2.1! wtf.

His dair is also not worse in 2.5 lol. It's a lot more potent than it was in 2.1. Just because you can't use it the same way doesn't mean it's worse. The move is still fundamentally the same but with the ability to slow it's decent, you can use it in many more situations (namely off the ledge without SDing)


All of his normals work better and get better results. Straight up.

Down B can do everything 2.1 side B can, but slower, and it has a higher finger dexterity requirement.

Complaining about being able to run in one direction and suddenly spindash in the other? You can still down that with a dash cancel into a reversed down b.

I don't feel like your complaints are warrented at all.

 

[roymaster803]

I agree with GHNeko, I feel like your complaints are more personal problems than anything else. Dair can still be used to escape to the ground, Nair kills better because it has a bigger sweetspot hitbox and it's stronger, spin dash is the new 2.1 side special. The only real difference is it's not as fast and even then it's such a small speed difference that it almost doesn't matter. Side be can still be jumped out of and cancel into another side B. You can literally do a figure 8 and aggravate the crap out of people then shove them off stage with the dash slide. It's not that Sonic's worse it's just that people have to relearn how to use him. He's different we know, but actually take the time to get used to him before completely giving him up and saying he was better in 2.1.

 

[Cless]

The only thing I don't like about his dair now is that it doesn't pop people up if you hit them when they're on the ground. I'm assuming that was unintended though because it was super silly. Overall I like 2.5 Sonic better.

 

[GHNeko]

Actually, it still pops up. The spike part of dair is just a lot harder to hit with, also it's KB values were changed to use a normal spike angle and melee style spike KB and not use special attributes to inflate the KB and hitstun.

So as a result, it's harder to hit and takes longer to pop up.

 

[Cless]

Yeah, I probably would have killed with something else at that point. Worth keeping in mind though.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Sorry, bro

Sonic's good. Really good. All he lost was dumb mix-ups, and he gained some really sick set-ups in exchange.

And the new fsmash holy ****

 

[GHNeko]

Prrrrrrrrrrrretty sure Fsmash is unchanged lol.

 

[Rat]

Down B can do everything 2.1 side B can, but slower, and it has a higher finger dexterity requirement.

Complaining about being able to run in one direction and suddenly spindash in the other? You can still down that with a dash cancel into a reversed down b.

2.5 downB takes less finger dexterity than 2.1 sideB =P. (But more than 2.5 downB)

Also yes I do feel like losing SideB from a Dash Dance is a legit complaint. I used the crap out of that. But Sonic gained a lot of other things though which make up for it. (he might be better now imo.)


A couple solutions to that loss:
+ Use new SideB WD into DownB. (Space with the sideB movement.)
+ Pivot DownB (I'm talking pivot from a DD.)
+ SH FF DownB (So you can move a bit.)

 

[Sethlon]

Prrrrrrrrrrrretty sure Fsmash is unchanged lol.

2.5 Fsmash has intangibility on the fist now, so it wins more often against other hitboxes.

 

[iLink]

I just wish his new sideb went a wee bit further then it does now.

What I've been doing to compensate is jumping before I do downb out of my dash dance.

 

[GHNeko]

2.5 Fsmash has intangibility on the fist now, so it wins more often against other hitboxes.

I swear to god the fish had intangibility before. <_<

Like a while back.

Like this isnt the 1st time the fist was invincible.

 

[tripwire]

He use to have potental for high tier now he doesn't.

Eh I wouldn't go that far. 2.1 Sonic was really just gimmicks that could easily be shut down with Sex Kicks and patience. As he is now in 2.5, Sonic has never been more solid or felt more "meleefied".

 

[himemiya]

Explain how does having him slower makes him more meleeficed?

 

[GHNeko]

he's not much slower in the traveling sense, but he's faster when it comes to his normals/aerials.

 

[tripwire]

If you don't like him then just drop him. The way I see it Sonic got buffed.

 

[Shadic]

He requires more dedication to his moves. But they're generally more rewarding/powerful now as well.

Softly slapping opponents away and always recovering wasn't any more "Melee" than 2.5 Sonic. And Sonic still has plenty of cool speedy tricks, they're just harder to do.

 

[Dubforce]

What is good about sonic?

I felt like his tilts were odd as well at first glance, especially his new up tilt. However, after ample play, I have officially settled on sonic as my 2.5 main.

Sonics strengths lie in his speed and his FAN-FING-TASTIC close quarters normal play. His jab pressure is retared. Dtilt > jab > ftilt > jab > utilt > jab. This pressurs shields insanely well. Man I just love sonic. So much pressure all the time.

F-throw off the edge to fair is free. Sometimes dair works better at higher %s and on FFers.

Side-b > slide kick (you want this to go off the edge) > fair on frame 1 is also free. HOLY **** this ***** falco. SOOOO hard.

His grab game is amazing. He can chain grab due to his insane run speed.

Ftilt has crazy priority, range and speed. Its fantastic. Seriously.

Utilt, dtilt and jab are insane for strings of consecutive hits.

Bair, fair and uair are great.

He has a good recovery game. He can play keep away. He can mindgame with his netural B now.

You know, a shorter list would be: What about sonic is bad?

 

[GHNeko]

His overall god awful priority on a super majority of his moveset? Plus the less than desired amount of reliable kill set ups?


lol

 

[Wizzrobe]

What is good about sonic?

I felt like his tilts were odd as well at first glance, especially his new up tilt. However, after ample play, I have officially settled on sonic as my 2.5 main.

Sonics strengths lie in his speed and his FAN-FING-TASTIC close quarters normal play. His jab pressure is retared. Dtilt > jab > ftilt > jab > utilt > jab. This pressurs shields insanely well. Man I just love sonic. So much pressure all the time.

F-throw off the edge to fair is free. Sometimes dair works better at higher %s and on FFers.

Side-b > slide kick (you want this to go off the edge) > fair on frame 1 is also free. HOLY **** this ***** falco. SOOOO hard.

His grab game is amazing. He can chain grab due to his insane run speed.

Ftilt has crazy priority, range and speed. Its fantastic. Seriously.

Utilt, dtilt and jab are insane for strings of consecutive hits.

Bair, fair and uair are great.

He has a good recovery game. He can play keep away. He can mindgame with his netural B now.

You know, a shorter list would be: What about sonic is bad?

Yes, someone else sees how great side B to slidekick ***** falco's recovery, same goes for Fox. Also, instead of instantly fairing the moment you go off the stage, you can neutral B a little later too.

 

[Dubforce]

Yes, someone else sees how great side B to slidekick ***** falco's recovery, same goes for Fox. Also, instead of instantly fairing the moment you go off the stage, you can neutral B a little later too.

Holy ****. Holy **** neutral b.

S tier: Sonic
A tier: Green Sonic
B tier: fox
C tier: blue sonic with black rings
F tier: everyone else except ROB
Z tier: ROB

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Prrrrrrrrrrrretty sure Fsmash is unchanged lol.

Prrrrrrrrretty sure it has a disjoint, since I've started hitting recoveries that previously would have beaten it. Maybe I'm crazy, though.

 

[GHNeko]

by unchanged, i mean unchanged from previous version, as in it's been having a disjoint and invincibility.

I think i'll go check today or something.

maybe im tripping lol.

 

[lexgamer]

As someone who mained Sonic in regular Brawl and won several tournaments as him, I can tell you he is crazy buffed in 'M', he may or not be worse than in older versions of 'M', but he's still way better then he was originally. At first, my biggest complaint was the change of his Sair, but after working with 'M' for some time I've realized it's an equally cool move. Overall Sonic feels more like Sonic, he does more tricks, and he's much faster overall, a bit slippery, but you get used to that.

 

[Tero.]

As someone who mained Sonic in regular Brawl and won several tournaments as him, I can tell you he is crazy buffed in 'M', he may or not be worse than in older versions of 'M', but he's still way better then he was originally. At first, my biggest complaint was the change of his Sair, but after working with 'M' for some time I've realized it's an equally cool move. Overall Sonic feels more like Sonic, he does more tricks, and he's much faster overall, a bit slippery, but you get used to that.

Dashdance alone makes him better than Brawl Sonic. Why are we talking about this anyway and what is Brawl?

 

[Dubforce]

maybe im tripping lol.

This ain't brawl.

 

[GHNeko]

I'm just saying.

Fsmash had a great disjoint in Brawl. It does here as well. <_<

 

[JacopeX]

The slide off of Side B doing knockback, his new WTF side tilt, his additional Oos gimp tools, New d-air (down throw > Run > D air all day), new Up Tilt (d-tilt to U-tilt all day) his EASIER wavedash, AND FASTER F-air is all the reason i'm playing Project M more than before and these changes have helped me overcome my worst match ups. I cannot understand how it can be the complete opposite and how 2.1 Sonic was any better. I was playing more SDR until 2.5 came out.

 

[GHNeko]

I find it funny that you say his WD is easier when his jumpstart was cut 1f, meaning you have to input the airdodge sooner lol.

 

[JacopeX]

Exactly.

I'm just used to a faster WD input.

 

[Dubforce]

Yeah sonic is pretty boss. His ftilt is way too good for tech chases. It has such good reach. I'm pretty sure its disjointed as well. "Oh did marth fsmash me? I don't give a **** we at least clinked. Sanic."

 

[JacopeX]

I just hope Sonic remains mid tier. Ever played a Sonic mirror match? Pretty annoying when you have to deal with your own shenanigans.

 

[Dubforce]

I just hope Sonic remains mid tier. Ever played a Sonic mirror match? Pretty annoying when you have to deal with your own shenanigans.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah I never thought of that. I HATE doubles anyways, so I would probably just switch to lucario/TLinki if that happened.

Also, I REALLY disagree that he's midtier. Unless the tiers are something like:

S: Fox, falco, lucario
A: Sonic and others
B: Weaker characters

Then hes in the middle lol.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Sonic might be top tier imo.