Notebooks

[ShroudedOne]

So, I hear that notebooks are very helpful for getting better at this game. But I'm not exactly sure of what I should and shouldn't be keeping notes of. And should I be studying my notebook, too? Or just writing things down for reference?

 

[Bones0]

Virtually anything you think about Melee you can put in your notebook, and you can always go back later and get rid of stuff you don't want to keep or organize the stuff that you feel is most relevant. Stuff you may want to add to it:
- General matchup tactics (maybe you can throw a certain character differently than everyone else so keeping a little hint would remind you)
- Player habits (keeping track of individual player's secondaries, favorite counterpicks/bans, things they fall for, things they are great at/dealing with, etc.)
- Random tactics that you brain storm (I do this a lot. I've added a lot of new little things to my game that I've never seen anyone else using because I brain stormed random ideas and typed them up so I remembered to try implementing them next time I got to play.)

 

[ShroudedOne]

Thanks Bones. I tried to start off with just Notepad files about each top/high tier matchup, and random frame data things to start off with. I also have a lot of things that I've printed out from here, and I guess a notebook would be the best way to categorize it all (although maybe a binder would be better?)

I guess what you're saying is that I should keep notes on players, too? How do I take note of who is important to note, and who isn't?

Lol. It sounds like I'm preparing myself for school, almost. But I'm willing to do this, for improvement.

 

[MasterShake]

Can you (Bones) or someone post an example of what notes you write?

 

[Pi]

u write everything bro...
every idea you think of and want to test
every counter you come up with
every reminder you forget
every piece of advice you get
everything!

asking what to write is like asking how to get consistent with waveshines, or what button to use to jump

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well, there are things that are helpful to write down, and things that aren't. I would think so anyways, but I'm not sure. I'm also thinking a purely digital one would be easier to manage.

 

[Pi]

digital would be yea
but me for example, i don't have any means to keep it w/ me
like to review before a match
so i just use paper notebook

and what would be bad to write down? even if it is bad, like a habit or something, you would still be able to see it layed out in front of you and then review it and determine if it was a bad habit

 

[MasterShake]

I just want to see what people who do this actually write.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I have some MU things I guess, as an example.

Peach vs Falcon

Pros-
Edge guards
CGs until 80
Combos (dtilt, FC uair, etc)
Dash attack


Cons-
Uair, Knee, Stomp, NAIR
GRABS
Combos (grab, or stomps)
No turnips

4 frames - Fox / Ice Climbers / Kirby / Pichu / Pikachu / Samus / Sheik

5 frames - Captain Falcon / Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario / Marth / Mr. Game & Watch / Ness / Young Link

6 frames - DK / Falco / Jigglypuff / Mewtwo / Peach / Roy / Yoshi

7 frames - Ganondorf / Link / Zelda

-

9 frames - Bowser

That second one is actually something Bones posted from M2K's thread once. But yeah, that's an example of things that I tried taking note of, once. Time to go back to it.

 

[Kal]

The best thing to do is have a better player take notes on your play and hand the notes over to you, in my opinion. The majority of people have a hard time keeping track of their own mistakes, and most people who are judging your gameplay have a hard time giving all of the advice after your matches are over.

 

[Avalancer]

I do make some notes occasionally when i'm testing out some combo possibilities, for example, the death % for some attacks, approach tactics and stuffs.

 

[Bones0]

Thanks Bones. I tried to start off with just Notepad files about each top/high tier matchup, and random frame data things to start off with. I also have a lot of things that I've printed out from here, and I guess a notebook would be the best way to categorize it all (although maybe a binder would be better?)

I guess what you're saying is that I should keep notes on players, too? How do I take note of who is important to note, and who isn't?

Lol. It sounds like I'm preparing myself for school, almost. But I'm willing to do this, for improvement.

I would go with a Word document. Just have a section for each area of your game you want notes on, and it makes adding/removing/editing things much easier.

The way I take note of who is important is who I am focused on beating. I have limited chances to play locals, and there's only a handful of people I lose to, and even less that I would presently consider myself at having a chance at beating. I'm not going to keep a player file on someone like Chillin cause he's going to destroy me regardless of how hard I study his game play. lol When I get better and beating him becomes a reasonable goal for me to have, then I would just start compiling stuff I know about him and start looking to his videos to find any habits he has that I could abuse or things that he enjoys doing that I can focus on avoiding.

Just as an example, I know he likes using falling uairs, so I would just open up my Word document, go to Chillin's player file, and make a simple note: "- likes falling uairs; tilt shield up to avoid the poke." Just include anything, from how they recover, how they combo, how they DI, literally ANYTHING like Pi said. The important thing is after you compile as much stuff about them as you can, you start looking for things you can abuse. If they are using the same recover all the time, make a note to abuse a certain edge guard. If they DI a throw the same way every time, make note to throw them a different way so that their DI will work in your favor.

I think a lot of people don't find keeping notes useful because they make no effort to actually work on their library of knowledge. If you notice something, simply writing it down won't help you because your goal is to learn MORE about a player/matchup/situation/whatever. The only way you are going to improve from your observations is to take the time to actually think about them and how they apply to you and your game. You'll know your notebook is helping when you list 10-15 observations, and then by the end of the week you've expanded your 10-15 observations into 20-30 good habits or tactics that you will use. Then you take those 20-30 good habits and find a mixup or two for each situation, or even just a slightly different way to do something. Within no time you'll have those 30 habits turned into some 60-70 mixups. The best part about keeping track of your learning process like this is that you internalize things much faster. Similar to how saying something out loud helps you to remember it, when you type out a situation and figure out the solutions on your own they become SO much easier to implement. I feel like this is why a lot of players get really good advice and they just CANNOT listen to it. They aren't dumb, and they aren't too arrogant to listen, but when you haven't gone through the process of understanding it on your own then when you are playing mid-game with a million things going on per second, of course they are going to go with their old bad habits that they've internalized years ago. But now I'm just ranting, so I'll stop. Edit: <--- LOL Just remembered I typed this and completely failed to control myself from ranting from MasterShake's post. *sigh*

Can you (Bones) or someone post an example of what notes you write?

My laptop that had all of my player files on it actually got bricked (probably just a bad battery pack), but I can give you a example of stuff I guess. Keep in mind I main Falco, so stuff like stage strikes and bans will be against Falco. This is almost the exact same format I used in my notebook (multiple dashes are indented bullets).


Name: Billy Umadison
Main: Fox
Secondaries: Sheik, Doc
Stage Strikes: FoD, YS
Ban: FoD
- Favors grab game over combos
----- Shield sparingly
- Impatient with dash dance
----- Susceptible to spot dodges and rolls
- Recovers with double jump Illusion onto the stage most of the time
----- Use run off dair if close enough; otherwise laser him under the stage
- Usually angles Firefox down for sweet spots
----- Ledge hog when he starts his Up-B

Those are more simple examples. Some of the notes I have are much longer because I've gone through and studied their videos and basically try to cover all the options. This is what they look like, plus it is more focused on my offense and his defensive tendencies rather than his.

- Reactions from throws
----- Fthrow
----- ----- Usually rolls
----- ----- ----- If he rolls away, chase him with dash and laser grab again
----- ----- ----- If he rolls towards me, react by reversing the same laser and grabbing
----- Bthrow
----- ----- Holds shield and waits to spot dodge the grab
----- ----- ----- Dash dance to bait the spot dodge
----- ----- ----- Aerial to engage in shield pressure


You get the general idea of it at least. I am having trouble coming up with examples because obviously people don't do the same reaction for everything, so a lot of stuff is based off of tendencies, not absolute rules. I really only had a few situations like that where I really broke it down, and like I said before, once you internalize this stuff into your game play, keeping it in your notes isn't really going to help. I could write a freakin' book about all the ways Marth players react to grabs, but I have so much Marth practice that it would not longer help. I have reached the point where I know intuitively what they will want to do based on a thousand different little factors I could never properly articulate into words. Stuff like how they DI'd the lasers tells me what move to use, and when you're playing someone in a set it can mess you up to assume they will act a certain way because if they've changed how they react then you will miss the same read over and over. It's a fine balance between keeping stuff in the back of your head as opposed to the front. In any given match you are constantly prioritizing your focus between things. Focusing on stuff like his dash dance spacing is going to be way more important than focusing on how he might react if you did one tiny certain thing and how you might react to his reaction. Thinking too far ahead of yourself will get you caught off guard constantly, but you also can't just be purely in the moment of focusing on the distance between each of you because you'll be completely unprepared mentally when one of you engages the other.

Melee's too ****ing difficult. I don't even want to talk about this bulll****.

 

[ShroudedOne]

That really helps. Yeah, I think I'll make a word doc for MUs, tactics, frame data, and players (when I go to more tournaments).

And yes, this game is really difficult. :\

 

[Bing]

Yeah Ive got a whole book full of stuff. Characters and combo ideas. Players and habits. Stage Abuse Ideas(aka some Falcon Players hate FoD) so I write which players I know hate it, and try to counter them there.(I do like FoD ftr) My book is mostly full of combo ideas. I also like to copy down somethings I read on the Boards, general tips, combos etc. its good to always have around, especially because my laptops a ***** and doesnt always work. Writing stuff down, also helps you to remember(just like studying for a test, repitition = perfection)

 

[Fuss]

I think people are trying too hard, once you pick up on something it should stick. Over thinking is usually counter-productive, at least in my experiences.

 

[Kal]

I don't think there is anything wrong with over thinking. One of the worst feelings is losing and not knowing why, and being able to explain, explicitly, why you did what you did is one of the best ways to assess a loss. It's also difficult to teach others if you aren't able to really understand why you do what you do.

With a few exceptions, I'm willing to bet the best players in everything over think nearly every aspect of their game.

 

[Hydro_Smasher]

I write habbits, matchups, little combos that tend to work 80% of the time, little technical items to throw in my game to help me out. etc.

I write alot of junk, but 50% of the things I take note of I dont write down.

I just think about smash alot.

 

[Sinji]

I like to write about certain tactics used in certain situations

 

[Dan Salvato]

I think people are trying too hard, once you pick up on something it should stick. Over thinking is usually counter-productive, at least in my experiences.

Writing it down can help make it stick. Studying it has the potential to become counter-productive, but I guess it depends on the player.

 

[Cero]

Anyone here watch the movie "Memento"? Lol.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I've been meaning to do this for over a year....I would just write things that work. Things that might. Things I shouldn't do. Ideas/mixups.
Never heard of anyone talk about this though.

EDIT:

Anyone here watch the movie "Memento"? Lol.

Great movie.

 

[kevo]

I bring them to Smash fests and tournaments but I'm usually too occupied to write in them. In that case, I write stuff after I get home. Otherwise, I write matchup info and things I notice work and don't work. I should start taking notes while I watch high level players play, too.

Uhhh here's the most recent page in my notebook I guess (i play marth)...

10/21 vs wake (peach)
not dashdancing enough, improve control of spacing
stop doublejumping back onto stage, he punishes w/dsmash
[diagram of how he usually covers my options when i'm hanging on the edge]

bait his dash attack use wd fsmash
approaches w/ dash attack a lot
dthrow-> ftilt works (med%)
baits me with bair if i jump
baits my fsmash w/airdodge when he comes down
utilt


I find that I don't need to reference this stuff often, but writing it down helps it "sink in"

 

[GooeyBanana]

It's good to hear that people do this, but I'm wondering if it's actually a good idea to implement. Writing people's habits is good and all, and it's good to **** those options, but they're going to eventually adapt if they care and you're back to step 1. Plus, you won't have your notes to reference to when you play. I feel it's better to take notes mentally as you play in the game because realistically, that's how you're going to have to think when you're up against someone with at least some reputable knowledge of adapting to their opponent as the match progresses. Just my two pennies.

EDIT: I do, however, feel like this may be a good ideafor newer players since there's so much to learn in the early stages of the game.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Writing notes on them will force them to adapt, which in turn forces you to adapt. Which, I feel, can only be a good thing. It does you nor your opponent any good to fight the same ideas over and over again. You want to engage with someone who will change it up, keep you on your toes.

I feel like taking mental notes is good too, but a good deal harder than writing notes down after the match. But I will try that, too.

 

[Divinokage]

Writing notes on them will force them to adapt, which in turn forces you to adapt. Which, I feel, can only be a good thing. It does you nor your opponent any good to fight the same ideas over and over again. You want to engage with someone who will change it up, keep you on your toes.

I feel like taking mental notes is good too, but a good deal harder than writing notes down after the match. But I will try that, too.

Well the game is limited as it is because you have to play by it's rules, of course. What makes you say the opponent is doing the same thing over and over? Like what? I'm asking because there's obviously certain things to do over and over that is extremely good.

Anyone here watch the movie "Memento"? Lol.

Haha, that's a pretty damn good movie.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I mean doing the same things over and over in terms of habits that they have which are exploitable, or things that they keep doing, not necessarily because they're good, but because they happen to work sometimes. For example, if I jab > downsmash a shield (Peach) all the time, and it happens to work sometimes, if my opponent makes a note of that, and then begins to punish me for it (by rolling or buffering a jump), then I have to adapt to that, and stop doing the same thing.

There are things to do repeatedly that are good, but I think that mixups are invaluable to any type of gameplay.

 

[Divinokage]

It definitely takes a lot of work to recognize these things. I guess notes could help but the way my opponents did to me was making fun of me when I did something bad and it took like at least 1000 times constantly hammering my mind to stop doing these dumb things. (Like rolling inside when the opponent is right where my rolling would end) Just one at a time creating mental notes until there are no more situations where actually habits are visible. And even then it's pretty hard to remove all patterns.

 

[:Tally Hoes]

I have 26 pages of notes, the pictures can be very crude but useful.

 

[Wake]

I bring them to Smash fests and tournaments but I'm usually too occupied to write in them. In that case, I write stuff after I get home. Otherwise, I write matchup info and things I notice work and don't work. I should start taking notes while I watch high level players play, too.

Uhhh here's the most recent page in my notebook I guess (i play marth)...

10/21 vs wake (peach)
not dashdancing enough, improve control of spacing
stop doublejumping back onto stage, he punishes w/dsmash
[diagram of how he usually covers my options when i'm hanging on the edge]

bait his dash attack use wd fsmash
approaches w/ dash attack a lot
dthrow-> ftilt works (med%)
baits me with bair if i jump
baits my fsmash w/airdodge when he comes down
utilt


I find that I don't need to reference this stuff often, but writing it down helps it "sink in"

I'm being studied!

 

[GooeyBanana]

I'm with Kage's method. I don't necessarily get made fun of, but after getting repeatedly punished for something, I begin to try and adapt to whatever they're doing because I'm sick of getting hit by it lol. I've had to do that for a longggg time with Marth's edgeguarding vs. Falcon xP Falco's really annoying to do this with cause of them blasted lasers though xP

 

[crush]

IIm gonna start using a notebook now :D

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i have an example of what not to write down
Jab-ftilt ftilt-ftilt dtilt-ftilt utilt-ftilt dash attack-ftilt
Jab-dtilt ftilt-dtilt dtilt-dtilt utilt-dtilt dash attack-dtilt
Jab-utilt ftilt-utilt dtilt-utilt utilt-utilt dash attack-utilt
Jab Jab-jab ftilt-jab dtilt-jab utilt-jab dash attack-jab
-dash attack ftilt-dash attack dtilt-dash attack utilt-dash attack dash attack-dash attack
Jab-fsmash ftilt-fsmash dtilt-fsmash utilt-fsmash dash attack-fsmash
Jab-dsmash ftilt-dsmash dtilt-dsmash utilt-dsmash dash attack-dsmash
Jab-usmash ftilt-usmash dtilt-usmash utilt-usmash dash attack-usmash
Jab-fair ftilt-fair dtilt-fair utilt-fair dash attack-fair
Jab-dair ftilt-dair dtilt-dair utilt-dair dash attack-dair
Jab-bair ftilt-bair dtilt-bair utilt-bair dash attack-bair
Jab-uair ftilt-uair dtilt-uair utilt-uair dash attack-uair
Jab-nair ftilt-nair dtilt-nair utilt-nair dash attack-nair
Jab-b ftilt-b dtilt-b utilt-b dash attack-b
Jab-upb ftilt-upb dtilt-upb utilt-upb dash attack-upb
Jab-downb ftilt-downb dtilt-downb utilt-downb dash attack-downb
Jab-sideb ftilt-sideb dtilt-sibeb utilt-sideb dash attack-sideb
Jab-getup attack ftilt-getup attack dtilt-getup attack utilt-getup attack dash attack-getup attack
Jab-ledge attack ftilt-ledge attack dtilt-ledge attack utilt-ledge attack dash attack-ledge attack
Jab-roll ftilt-roll dtilt-roll utilt-roll dash attack-roll

Fsmash-jab dsmash-jab usmash-jab
Fsmash-ftilt dsmash-ftilt usmash-ftilt
Fsmash-dtilt dsmash-dtilt usmash-dtilt
Fsmash-utilt dsmash-utilt usmash-utilt
Fsmash-dash attack dsmash-dash attack usmash-dash attack
Fsmash-fsmash dsmash-fsmash usmash-fsmash
Fsmash-dsmash dsmash-dsmash usmash-dsmash
Fsmash-usmash dsmash-usmash usmash-usmash
Fsmash-fair dsmash-fair usmash-fair
Fsmash-dair dsmash-dair usmash-dair
Fsmash-bair dsmash-bair usmash-bair
Fsmash-uair dsmash-uair usmash-uair
Fsmash-nair dsmash-nair usmash-nair
Fsmash-b dsmash-b usmash-b
Fsmash-upb dsmash-upb usmash-upb
Fsmash-downb dsmash-downb usmash- downb
Fsmash-sideb dsmash-sideb usmash-sideb
Fsmash-getup attack dsmash-getup attack usmash-getup attack
Fsmash-ledge attack dsmash-ledge attack usmash-ledge attack
Fsmash-roll dsmash-roll usmash-roll



Fair-jab dair-jab bair-jab uair-jab nair-jab
Fair-ftilt dair-ftilt bair-ftilt uair-ftilt nair-ftilt
Fair-dtilt dair-dtilt bair-dtilt uair-dtilt nair-dtilt
Fair-utilt dair-utilt bair-utilt uair-utilt nair-utilt
Fair-dash dair-dash bair-dash uair-dash nair-dash
Fair-fsmash dair-fsmash bair-fsmash uair–fsmash nair-fsmash
Fair-dsmash dair-dsmash bair-dsmash uair-dsmash nair-dsmash
Fair-usmash dair-usmash bair-usmash uair-usmash nair-usmash
Fair-fair dair-fair bair-fair uair-fair nair-fair
Fair-dair dair-dair bair-dair uair-dair nair-dair
Fair-bair dair-bair bair-bair uair-bair nair-bair
Fair-uair dair-uair bair-uair uair-uair nair-uair
Fair-nair dair-nair bair-nair uair-nair nair-nair
Fair-b dair-b bair-b uair-b nair-b
Fair-upb dair-upb bair-upb uair-upb nair-upb
Fair-downb dair-downb bair-downb uair-downb nair-downb
Fair-sideb dair-sideb bair-sideb uair-sideb nair-sideb
Fair-getup dair-getup bair-getup uair-getup nair-getup
Fair-ledge dair-ledge bair-ledge uair-ledge nair-ledge
Fair-roll dair-roll bair-roll uair-roll nair-roll

b-jab upb-jab downb-jab sideb-jab
b-ftilt upb-ftilt downb-ftilt sideb-ftilt
b-dtilt upb-dtilt downb-dtilt sideb-dtilt
b-utilt upb-utilt downb-utilt sideb-utilt
b-dash upb-dash downb-dash sideb-dash
b-fsmash upb-fsmash downb-fsmash sideb-fsmash
b-dsmash upb-dsmash downb-dsmash sideb-dsmash
b-usmash upb-usmash downb-usmash sideb-usmash
b-fair upb-fair downb-fair sideb-fair
b-dair upb-dair downb-dair sideb-dair
b-bair upb-bair downb-bair sideb-bair
b-uair upb-uair downb-uair sideb-uair
b-nair upb-nair downb-nair sideb-nair
b-b upb-b downb-b sideb-b
b-upb upb-upb downb-upb sideb-upb
b-downb upb-downb downb-downb sideb-downb
b-sideb upb-sideb downb-sideb sideb-sideb
b-getup upb-getup downb-getup sideb-getup
b-ledge upb-ledge downb-ledge sideb-ledge
b-roll upb-roll downb-roll sideb-roll


 
getup-jab
getup-ftilt
getup-dtilt
getup-utilt
getup-dash
getup-fsmash ledge-fsmash
getup-dsmash
getup-usmash
getup-fair
getup-dair
getup-bair
getup-uair
getup-nair
getup-b
getup-upb
getup-downb
getup-sideb
getup-getup
getup-ledge
getup-roll
 
a start of all possible desyncs with ic's missing a great amount of content
and i lost spaces while posting

 

[Mr Postman]

I think I would mainly end up righting down percents

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i remember seeing this thread when it was first made and thinking it might be a good idea to make a notebook. So i tried and realized I had no idea what to write, but now look back over this thread I think i got some ideas. I dont think I am going to write down player habits but MU ideas and notes to myself about my own mistakes seem like a good thing to have written down.

My first sentence in my notebook in bold is STOP ****ING ROLLING, now I just need to listen to myself

 

[Divinokage]

If your hand was burning, will you stop rolling now? I think you will. Think of it this way, as long as you do stupidities you will suffer. Change now or die. =) Best mindset to change yourself quickly.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

kage r u telling e to burn my hand while I play b/c i think i might rather role lol. but yea I know change or die sadly i dont have enough players around me who punish me enough to make me stop rolling. (there use to be this one jigglypuff but he stopped playing for a while). but i am working on this and I plan on going to a legit tourney with legit players so hopefully this will get the message through to me

 

[Divinokage]

I've read of a good way to change bad habits is basically induce some type of suffering. Like if you catch yourself thinking something negative about yourself or the other person then you can do something like hit a sensitive spot like at the top of your thumb with a needle. Pretty sure at some point you'll definitely stop thinking badly because if not then it'll keep hurting more and more, and someone with a good logic should stop being stupid in this way. I'm not saying you have to do this since it's pretty extreme but it works for sure. You can of course apply this much differently.

My views seem extreme but it's just an outlook which worked for me very well and the changes are very fast. It's like if you have 2 walls slowly approaching you, do you really think you have time to think? No you don't, you have to change now and work a solution as fast as possible. I personally cannot stand the fact to suffer the same problem over and over, it's ****ing dumb but unfortunately too many people are caught in this vicious cycle. You dont necessarily need another better player to test things out, you can drill your mind to think otherwise and take notes how to become better. I mean why not?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

well i dont go as far as to hurt myself but I do yell at myself and sometimes hit myself on the head for being dumb. (i think some of my friends think i have issues lol). Also i sort of supplement physical pain for getting badly punished in game and that why i think I need a good player to punish my stupid mistakes so i learn

i also cant stand making the same mistake over and over again, but even if i know doing something is bad or wrong like rolling, I still find myself falling back on these bad habits when I am in a match just b/c i feel comfortable doing it, so until someone punishes it so i no longer feel comfortable doing these mistakes I fear I will keep making them. (i am trying to just train myself to get over these mistakes but its slow going at the moment, but hopefully I will be able to overcome my weaknesses with just mental power)

 

[Divinokage]

Sounds good to me, seems like it's going towards the right direction. Ya I mean even just hitting yourself on the head or slap your knees when you do something bad is good enough I think, I do it myself too.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

idk about u kage but i feel its kinda natural to hit yourself a little when u do something dumb, b/c who isnt upset at themselves when they make a dumb mistake.

Anyway since i am aware of my rolling problem I believe I will be able to fix it.

edit: now that i think about it i also talk when i play pointing out my mistakes, that must be a strange thing for the people i am playing against. i now wonder what they think about it when i talk about my mistakes. I wonder if they think i am johning or if i am little crazy (i would say nether)