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Atlantic North [Nov 8, 2014] SypherPhoenix's Boosted Biweeklies! - Northern VA (Fairfax, VA, USA)

T

Twig

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
410
Location
MD/JMU


The original TA signature, and I count 5 including Travis, unless Perry has been active recently, then it's 6.

KM
Chinesah
Redd
The Newb
G-reg
Perry G (?)

I miss Project Pat + Beads.
 
TheCrimsonBlur

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
This tournament's format will be soooo tight. Honestly its the best format I can imagine for us. This **** will be legendary. It might change smash/this region forever. No joke.

I'll explain it in detail for you guys after the tournament but for now, please just go with the flow. We are experimenting so please make things easy on us. Don't be late, play your tournament matches on time and when asked to, and tell us whenever you are going to eat/smoke/whatever. Remember, it starts at 1. 1 pm. Text me (703-615-0640) if any emergency comes up and I'll see what I can do.

Setups are super important too. We have 11 right now, but having 20+ would be ****ing sweet. 16 is the minimum if we want to make this tournament end on time. Step it up fellas.

oygp said:
this tournament is melee only, right?
Click to expand...
Yes but there will be Project M setups.

Come to this. Its going to be amazing.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
16 is the minimum? We've done 20some people at Sypher's with like 6 TVs, I don't see why you guys are making such a fuss unless you're expecting like 50 people or something <_<

I mean I'm contributing 2 (I think) but like ... I don't think we'll be that pressed for time considering we're almost never pressed for time at Sypher's with less setups and pretty frequent breaks, even if we have a few less people
 
TheCrimsonBlur

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
Wenbobular said:
16 is the minimum? We've done 20some people at Sypher's with like 6 TVs, I don't see why you guys are making such a fuss unless you're expecting like 50 people or something <_<

I mean I'm contributing 2 (I think) but like ... I don't think we'll be that pressed for time considering we're almost never pressed for time at Sypher's with less setups and pretty frequent breaks, even if we have a few less people
Click to expand...
If we want to do the format we want to do, having 16 setups would be a lot easier. If we don't have 16, we will probably just do normal double elim.

I'm not really worried about it. If everyone brings what they say they'll bring, we'll have like 25 or something. It'll be awesome. I just want to make sure everyone doesn't forget to bring stuff.
 
SypherPhoenix

SypherPhoenix

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
1,563
Location
Fairfax, VA
Wenbobular said:
16 is the minimum? We've done 20some people at Sypher's with like 6 TVs, I don't see why you guys are making such a fuss unless you're expecting like 50 people or something <_<
Click to expand...
It entirely has to do with the tournament format. If there are less than 16 setups the process would be unbearably long.


oygp said:
What are Project M setups? Does that mean setups for brawl friendlies on the side?

If that's so, I might come.
Click to expand...
No, Project M is a Brawl hack/mod to basically turn it into Melee. There will be no Brawl at this tournament.
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

♥
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
You should join anyways. I'd be down for Brawl after every event's finished (I know there's at least 1 Melee-less/ProjectM-less setup that we can make a Brawl setup for. Unless someone brings an extra Melee disk
 
g-regulate

g-regulate

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
7,568
Location
ashburn, VA
Original TA - KM, Project Pat, Adwillia, Perry, BEADS aka Duncan "Dunc"
first other members - g-reg, Aho, Chinesah, Kirbstir
raft tope fleurs and others came soon after
 
Redd

Redd

thataintfalco.com
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
4,102
Location
Richmond, Virginia
Just got home... lemme take care of some stuff and I'm racing back out there LOL.

Who would've guessed dead-stop traffic at 2:30 AM. I ****ing loathe this area.
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

♥
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
Not salt

Bones, we should have had our second set recorded. So dead even. 3/4 of our games went to last stock last hit, except for that 1 3 stock, but on a trimmed mean, you're still very slightly better. I still have a $1 money match record against you ^.^

Also, ephoenix is bad. No 1 knows how bad he is
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

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Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
We did a complicated swiss format into 4 brackets of 8 thing

1. Chillindude
2. ChuDat
3-16. idk
17. Bones
18. Poehlcat
19. DJ
20. EPsilon
21. Sypher
21. Alcohol
23. Mers
23. Winston
25. JCaesar
26-32. idk
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
UsurperKingZant said:
We did a complicated swiss format into 4 brackets of 8 thing

1. Chillindude
2. ChuDat
3-16. idk
17. Poehlcat
18. Bones
19. DJ
20. EPsilon
21. Sypher
21. Alcohol
23. Mers
23. Winston
25. JCaesar
26-32. idk
Click to expand...
I beat Poehlcat, so I got 17th.

BigWenz said:
i would definately love 2 see the full bracket(s) cause ive already got alotta questions just from these partial results
Click to expand...
Brackets are pretty much pointless. I approve of Crimson's effort to try a new type of bracket, but it definitely failed miserably. Everyone played 4 swiss matches based on their seed, and which bracket you were in was determined solely based on your first match. I lost to CK and went the rest of the tournament without losing (except to DJ who I won against in Losers Finals of my bracket).
 
CTL17

CTL17

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,511
Location
EC or a mitten
I don't understand this bracketing. Can I get a wikipedia article of what you were trying to do?

And it seems Winston pulled a Winston again.

I'm also very impressed at the turnout. Can't wait for a full explanation.
 
P

Plairnkk

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Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
Bones0 said:
I beat Poehlcat, so I got 17th.



Brackets are pretty much pointless. I approve of Crimson's effort to try a new type of bracket, but it definitely failed miserably. Everyone played 4 swiss matches based on their seed, and which bracket you were in was determined solely based on your first match. I lost to CK and went the rest of the tournament without losing (except to DJ who I won against in Losers Finals of my bracket).
Click to expand...
It wasn't based solely on the first match, but it had a large part in it. When you say "except to DJ" does that mean that you went 2-2 in your swiss bracket? It would make sense, then, that you would get into a lower bracket.

I didn't 100% understand, i especially don't get how azen and vist were eliminated early while both going 3-1. I was told it was because vist lost to greg 2nd round and azen lost to thumbs second round, but the mathematics of it still don't make sense to me and I didn't have time to rationalize it there but here is how i assume it works?

r1 victory 1 pts
r2 victory 2 pts (if won first round)
r2 victory 1 pt (if lost first round)
r3 victory 3 pts (if won first two rounds)
r3 victory 2 pts (if won first round and loss second round or vice versa)
r3 victory 1 pt (if lost first two rounds and won 3rd round)
r4 victory 4 pts (if won first 3 rounds)
r4 victory 3 pts (if won either 1st/2nd and remainder of games)
r4 victory 2 pts (if lost first 2 games then won last two games)
r4 victory 1 pt (if lost first 3 games, won last game)



This gives the correct number of points based on the tier difficulty of player that you play.


What I don't understand is how a 2-2 could possibly have more points than a 3-1. Crimsons explanation to me was that since milkman went 2-0 then lost the next 2, he gets into the top 8 since he won the first two rounds (he beat cyrain) because he is a low seed. However a seed is just that, a seed. Cyrain didn't even make bracket and at that Azen ALSO beat cyrain round 4 in the 2-1 bracket whereas milkman lost his 2-1 match. Why does milkman move on even though he lost more matches just because he was seeded lower to start....? Seeding makes sure that you don't play anyone on your skill level too early, but the bracket itself should have an effect on who moves on, not "well he beat cyrain and was ranked soo much lower so he moves on to top 8" Whether you go w/w/l or w/l/w then on the 4th round aren't you both playing someone who is 2-1? (of the same bracket) Then why does azen who wins in 4th round not get top 8 while milkman who loses in 4th round get into the top 8 bracket. Same case goes with vist and g-reg. Vist beats boss who was 2-1, and greg loses to myself which brings himself to 2-2, why does greg get top 8 even though he has less overall points than vist?

I think the system as a whole was good, but I can't see any mathematical reason why a w/w/l/l would advance over a w/l/w/w
 
g-regulate

g-regulate

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Messages
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Location
ashburn, VA
basically anyone who lost once in the first 2 rounds were permanently eliminated, whereas anyone who won their first 2 were automatically put in the bracket.

seems really stupid and messed up to me IMO..... doesnt accurately show a ranking of skill in any way.
 
TheCrimsonBlur

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
Mm, yeah, there were definitely problems with my system, as I told people earlier.

The system was swiss pairings for 4 rounds into 8 man bracket. Every round proved which "half" of a segment of the bracket you deserved to be in. So first round proved if you were top 16, second round proved if you were top 8, third round proved if you were top 4, and fourth round proved if you were top 2. If you had lost first round (like Bones), the system would then pit you with the bottom half of the bracket to see where you should be among the bottom half of the players. The problem with this is that it gives way too much importance to the first 2 rounds, and losses there can be devastating to your overall importance. I could have easily fixed this for the top bracket; instead of having a top 8, all I would need to have is a top 10 which included Vist and Azen and the problem would be solved, but for a player like Bones, I would need to make more systematic changes. I could push him up to the 2nd tier bracket because he won all his bottom 16 matches, but that still wouldnt give him an opportunity to make it to 1st tier just because he lost 1st round. An obvious solution to this would be to just make it so the second tier plays their bracket before the 1st tier and the winner of that gets seeded into the 1st bracket. Of course that would mean having to play one bracket before another, which would extend the time of completion (we could make the 2nd tier bracket single elim though, since those players have already lost once or twice in swiss...actually now that I think of it thats a great idea; an 8 man single elim takes like 40 mins).

I really regret not thinking about doing a top 10 when forming the brackets; I think the tournament would have been much better if I had. Overall though, I am happy I went with the system because I am dissatisfied with double elim brackets at our regionals. I learned a lot, and I found my mistakes, so the experiment was a success. I was happy with the efficiency everything was run at; we finished in like 4.5 hours despite running a completely new system.

I know I could have run a simple double elim and everyone would be happy, but that was never the point of my tournament. I really wanted to experiment with something new. The spirit of the system is good, but a few changes need to be made to make the results more accurate. I apologize to Vist, Azen, and Bones (the players most affected by the problems with the system) but I hope you guys had a fun time regardless.
 
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