Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread

[t3h Icy]

Here's a whole situation, but I'm sure it's pretty simple for you guys:

-Fox jumps and airdodges on the first frame he can
-Fox airdodges in a certain direction/height so that he lands immediately when the airdodge invincibility ends
-Fox lands, jumps on the first frame he can and repeats

What percentage of invincibility frames does this give Fox?

Also, would it be more beneficial (for invincibility, not getting hit, etc) if there was an immediate shine and an immediate jump out of shine when he lands instead of without?

 

[Bones0]

Not sure about what the percentage would be, but I'm pretty sure triangle jumping has 10 frames of landing lag just like WDing.

 

[knightpraetor]

Hopefully you're still up for answering questions. ^_^

First of all, I noticed the file "Ledge_frames_info.txt" is missing from SDM's site. Anybody know what that is or have it?


Anyways....
SuperDoodleMan mentions "noninterruptible moves".



Apparently these are mostly aerial B moves (is it only B moves? and is it true of all of them?). So is the difference between these two terms in the actions that you can cancel with?

Under IASA he says, "You can do an attack, jump, dash, turn, crouch, or shield on the IASA frame. You can interrupt with B moves on the ground only." What is the list of actions for SAF? Where do the IASA frames and SAF frames actually differ (I mean, where are some moves where they're actually different frames)? The moves I've compared them on so far are the same.

so wait, can i cancel marth's dtilt into shield? i thought you had to walk forward before being able to shield as well. can i queue the shield by just holding the shield button or do I have to press shield during the IASA frames.

 

[Strong Badam]

Here's a whole situation, but I'm sure it's pretty simple for you guys:

-Fox jumps and airdodges on the first frame he can
-Fox airdodges in a certain direction/height so that he lands immediately when the airdodge invincibility ends
-Fox lands, jumps on the first frame he can and repeats

What percentage of invincibility frames does this give Fox?

Also, would it be more beneficial (for invincibility, not getting hit, etc) if there was an immediate shine and an immediate jump out of shine when he lands instead of without?

He'd be invincible for about 40% of the time if that were possible. I don't think it is though. You'd have to be fully horizontal to not immediately slide when you air dodge.

No.

so wait, can i cancel marth's dtilt into shield? i thought you had to walk forward before being able to shield as well. can i queue the shield by just holding the shield button or do I have to press shield during the IASA frames.

You can't. You have to walk for 1 frame then hold shield to buffer it. So just hold forward & shield during Dtilt and you'll shield as soon as you can.

 

[ajp_anton]

Here's a whole situation, but I'm sure it's pretty simple for you guys:

-Fox jumps and airdodges on the first frame he can
-Fox airdodges in a certain direction/height so that he lands immediately when the airdodge invincibility ends
-Fox lands, jumps on the first frame he can and repeats

What percentage of invincibility frames does this give Fox?

Also, would it be more beneficial (for invincibility, not getting hit, etc) if there was an immediate shine and an immediate jump out of shine when he lands instead of without?

When airdodging on the first frame, you either don't land at all (angle >= 0) or you land on the first frame (angle < 0). You'd have to spend one extra frame after the jump so you'd actually get an airdodge before landing.
Shine adds just one frame of invincibility afaik, but it takes a few frames until you can jump out of it, so most likely not worth it.

[% of invincibility] = [# of invincibility frames] / ( [# of airdodge frames before invincibility] + [# of invincibility frames] + [landing (9-10?)] + [jump (3?)] + 1 )

 

[Bones0]

You can't jump out of shine until frame 4.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Do you have a frame by frame breakdown on that?

 

[Varist]

You can't jump out of shine until frame 4.

April Fools?

 

[standardtoaster]

Do you have a frame by frame breakdown on that?

shine startup
shine startup
shine startup
jump startup

 

[Strong Badam]

i endorse standardtoaster's post

 

[ShroudedOne]

Maybe I don't understand how shine works, then? I thought you could cancel it on the frame after the hitbox, since it's only one frame?

 

[Bones0]

April Fools?

Shine

Total: 39 (or more)
Hits: 1
Reflects: 4-21 or release+1
Jump cancelable whenever it reflects
Lag upon release: 19
Reflection lag: 19

 

[ShroudedOne]

Oh. So when the reflector frames come out, not on the hitbox. Well then, color me learned. Thanks.

 

[Blu]

Are the total number of frames of an initial dash animation the same across the cast, or are they character-dependent?

• If the same: how many frames is it before the initial dash ends and the running animation begins (in which a pivot is no longer recognized)?
  
• If character-dependent: how many frames is each character's initial dash animation?

You can pretty much see that I'm assuming you are able to pivot at any point within the initial dash; feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Are the turn-around animations the same frame-length for the entire cast, or do these vary as well?

How may frames must one wait before they can attack out of a wavedash?

=

Trying to figure out if pivoting is actually relevant or not...

 

[Strong Badam]

Character Dependent.

Character ..Tot Min Run
------------------------
Bowser .... 29  20  14
Capt Falcon 28  20  16
DK ........ 30  20  16
Dr Mario .. 21  20  11
Falco ..... 21  20  12
Fox ....... 21  20  12
G&W ....... 17  17   9
Ganon ..... 28  20  16
ICs ....... 21  20  14
Jiggs ..... 23  20  13
Kirby ..... 23  20  13
Link ...... 30  20  13
Luigi ..... 21  20  11
Mario ..... 21  20  11
Marth ..... 27  20  16
Mewtwo .... 29  20  19
Ness ...... 25  20  14
Peach ..... 21  20  16
Pichu ..... 22  20  14
Pikachu ... 22  20  14
Roy ....... 27  20  16
Samus ..... 22  20   9
Sheik ..... 21  20   8
Y Link .... 30  20  13
Yoshi ..... 26  20  14
Zelda ..... 22  20  16

Tot is animation length, Min is minimum frames you need to go before you can redash, and Run is frame you transition into run if you continue to hold forward.

Not my list; Magus made it. I was working on one then wondered if he had made one already and then love him because he saved me work. <3

You can pivot at any point within the initial dash starting frame 4.

I tested a few animations and Mewtwo's is 15 frames while the other 5ish chars I tested were 11 frames, but you can act as early as frame 2 with everyone as far as I know so it shouldn't be relevant for pivoting.

Wavedash is different depending on who you are; it's jumpstart + 10 frames. http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Frames_-_Jumps.xls Subtract 1 from the "1st air frame" column for whatever character you want.

 

[ShroudedOne]

When does dash animation begin, or is that also character dependent? I don't think that you have that in the chart. More specifically, Peach's dash animation.

 

[Strong Badam]

Dash animation
stars frame 1 of dash

 

[Blu]

I tested a few animations and Mewtwo's is 15 frames while the other 5ish chars I tested were 11 frames, but you can act as early as frame 2 with everyone as far as I know so it shouldn't be relevant for pivoting.

(This is for turn-arounds, I'm assuming.) So what you're saying is that the game recognizes you as fully turned--and will perform your next move facing the opposite direction--after only two frames? @_@ That's pretty sick.

So if I have this right, you can execute a move in the opposite direction you start dashing in after 6 frames (4 before the pivot and 2 for the turn-around animation associated with the pivot)? Granted, pivoting that early sorta defeats the purpose of the initial dash; so with Fox for example, anything from, say, 18-26 frames seems reasonable (12+6 to 20+6) in order to gain respectable distance.

I can't download the independent jumpstart data right now, but I can assume it would only be a handful (~4) frames on average. Adding 10 to make a wavedash seems to suggest wavedashing a fixed distance is faster than pivoting the same fixed distance... idk if I agree with this based on my experiences, so someone please reassure my assessment. D=

=

I hope they add even obscure animations such as what you listed to each character's gif compilation. Thanks again, SB. =]

 

[ShroudedOne]

So then what could it be that makes dash attacking with Peach more difficult, and more likely to get you an ftilt instead, than with other characters?

 

[Dan Salvato]

So then what could it be that makes dash attacking with Peach more difficult, and more likely to get you an ftilt instead, than with other characters?

If you're pushing the stick hard enough to dash, then you're also pushing it hard enough to perform a smash attack. If an ftilt is coming out then you're probably just not pressing the stick hard enough to dash. Either that or you're trying to dash before she lands or something, negating the initial "smash" motion of the stick and bringing her to a walk.

 

[Strong Badam]

So then what could it be that makes dash attacking with Peach more difficult, and more likely to get you an ftilt instead, than with other characters?

You can Fsmash during the first 3 frames of dash if done forward. Your original question didn't really help.. it doesn't even make sense. Why wouldn't an animation for dash start frame 1 of the dash action? lol. Anyway there shouldn't be anything special about Peach that causes more accidental Ftilts than usual.

Except like
the gayness of the player

 

[Ripple]

how safe is each hit of each direction of roy's side-b? assuming it hits first frame possible

so

>
>>
>^
>>^
>>v
>>>
>>>>
>>>^
>>>v

 

[Strong Badam]

on shield, or...?

 

[Bones0]

I'm guessing he means on their body because he said assuming it hits the first frame instead of the last.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You can Fsmash during the first 3 frames of dash if done forward. Your original question didn't really help.. it doesn't even make sense. Why wouldn't an animation for dash start frame 1 of the dash action? lol. Anyway there shouldn't be anything special about Peach that causes more accidental Ftilts than usual.

Except like
the gayness of the player

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere once that Ftilt can be buffered longer than most moves. I have no idea why and it's been a while, but you should test Ftilt to be sure imo.

 

[Bones0]

You can buffer ftilt? O_o

 

[Dr Peepee]

I might be phrasing it incorrectly, but it was something like buffering for that move. Something about reading tilt forward vs fully pressed forward on the stick is weird for Peach in this game I think. Like I said, it's been a while since I read the information, and I also didn't save it lol.

 

[Bones0]

It sounds like you're just talking about how if you input a dash on the stick during landing lag you don't actually dash, meaning you can easily ftilt. I just don't get how that would be easier with Peach than anyone else (and it's certainly not a buffer because that'd mean you could hit tilt+A and it would do it asap out of lag).

 

[ShroudedOne]

Magus420 (just in case you namesearch) should look into it and see if it has some validity.

 

[Ripple]

on block, not on hit

 

[Strong Badam]

ShroudedOne: These accidental Ftilts while trying to dash attack, would they happen to be from trying to do a dash back dash attack?

 

[Grape Ape]

How does wiggling out of hitstun work? how early can you do it? how many times does one need to input back and forth on the control stick, and how many frames can one do it in?

 

[Bones0]

You can't wiggle out during hit stun. It only deals with tumble, and it only takes one iteration of left to right to straighten yourself.

 

[Grape Ape]

alright cool. does it let you attack/airdodge/whatever quicker?

 

[Strong Badam]

Only air-dodge. Anything else can be done during tumble.

 

[Blu]

Only air-dodge. Anything else can be done during tumble.

But it's true that it takes a certain amount of time amidst tumble before you can do any of them, right? If you're able to wiggle out of tumble before this time-frame, doesn't that make wiggling the better option?

 

[Strong Badam]

There is no such time-frame. Frame 1 of tumble (Frame after hitstun ends) you can do things other than airdodge.

 

[Blu]

Oh, cool. Now that I think about it, that was kind of a dumb question. >.>

Tumble also has no affect on a character's aerial DI when falling, does it? After survival DI has been inputted and you're heading back to the stage, I mean.

 

[Bones0]

Oh, cool. Now that I think about it, that was kind of a dumb question. >.>

Tumble also has no affect on a character's aerial DI when falling, does it? After survival DI has been inputted and you're heading back to the stage, I mean.

I just tested with Jiggs using Motion Sensors and it doesn't seem like it. She drifts at the same angle whether she's in tumble or not.

 

[ShineSpikeOverpowered]

Hello Strong Bad greetings from Russia =). Russian star Fox player Prostitute Love want to know how many of multishine can be performed in one second. Cause he think he might have record xD.