Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Wolf is actually really good in my opinion. Better than Fox who is overated in my eyes.
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Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0
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Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
that's true. i am kinda biased. but that's cause of the people i used to play. dk was more repped and wolf wasnt.
tbh mayb wolf should be above dk. however....
i can't trash talk pit as he is my main. so ill just say that wolf is under rated for damn sure, hell he may even be overall better than fox, but not against MK. and in this game it is how your character goes against mk that matters, that is all.
Oh yes you can.
Wolf is doing very well, consistently well for a while despite his bad matchups. The one thing wolf is lacking is a nice national placement. He has been doing well on a regional scale for quite a while.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Peach gets wrecked by Wolf. Peach doesn't combo Wolf well at all. Peach loses whether she is playing defensive or aggro. She simply has a ton of problems vs Wolf. Shine alone makes killing for her absolutely the most difficult thing she will ever see. Wolf doesn't die vs Peach till around 170...While she dies in the 120-130's with fresh Fair, which is the move that always kills her.
I've played so many Peach's at this point that I would love to further prove my point in any Peach vs Wolf MM, which is why I wanna play Illmatic so bad lolololol.
Can't let you do that starfox.
ROFL@you. Wolf is 45-55 with Mk. Wolf does amazing vs Mk and like Fox, he has a guaranteed move upon grab release (Fsmash or Dacus). He is also heavy unlike Falco or Fox, which makes Mk unable to kill Wolf till 150-160's or later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR0SppWx57Q#t=05m40s
^^^^^^
Watch my godlike DI vs Mk's Bthrow and Uthrow and see for yourself =)
The reason Wolfs like me, Holms, Kain, and others are doing well is solely because of the massive influx of Mk's. If he was banned then Wolf would be ****ed by the incoming of D3's and Pikachu's.
Holms got 25th at Whobo and even beat Dojo
.I wish I could've attended pound 5 Monday to of shown a nice national placement lol.
Holms too good... Why wasn't this more hyped??
I thought you did place well Seagull.
I thought you did place well Seagull.
D
Deleted member
Guest
It's not 45-55 anymore. Reppin' that +1!
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I got 33rd by default for making it out of pools lol. I don't know why Holms vs Dojo wasn't hyped, but it happened. I dunno if the videos were recorded.
Brawlin
Smash Journeyman
I said Peach has trouble killing him. She has trouble killing pretty much the entire cast almost. So, obviously her matchups would be alot worse if matchups were based solely on that. But, I don't see how she can't combo him early on. His weight and fastfall are perfect for dair comboing whether its a short hop or float. She can ground float oos bair him, follow up with a down smash, short hop dair after a glide toss, even ground float nair after a glide toss. She has the chaingrab on him, which she can finish off with a ftilt. One of Peach's best attributes is being able to pressure and combo. Playing defensive will help Peach. Her defensive game is pretty good too with a good oos game along with glide tossing, etc.
And because you are consistently beating Peach's that does not necessarily make the match up any worse. That does not change the fact that she can still do what she could always do against him or what Wolf could always do against her. Again it may be a +1 for Wolf tho, but its not any worse than that.
C tier is all very close, but to be completely honest putting Wolf anywhere in C tier is probably justifiable. All of his MUs above him are at worst borderline even until you hit D3 (I know that this alone isn't justification, but just sayin'). And what Seagull said about MKs. Wolf doing better than Fox vs MK is pushing it imo, but Wolf still benefits from MK keeping down other characters.
@ Peach's combos, it's not that she can't combo Wolf but that she has a hard time getting one started. At this point in the metagame there's enough knowledge about SDI/DI that strings aren't as amazing as they used to be. Wolf can SDI out of Peach's dair and uair/bair/nair/shine her, so... yeah. Basically. +1 at least imo :/ I can see it maybe being a +2 but there's nowhere near enough proof for that yet.
@ Peach's combos, it's not that she can't combo Wolf but that she has a hard time getting one started. At this point in the metagame there's enough knowledge about SDI/DI that strings aren't as amazing as they used to be. Wolf can SDI out of Peach's dair and uair/bair/nair/shine her, so... yeah. Basically. +1 at least imo :/ I can see it maybe being a +2 but there's nowhere near enough proof for that yet.
SupaSairentoZ7℠
Smash Hero
@ Peach's combos, it's not that she can't combo Wolf but that she has a hard time getting one started. At this point in the metagame there's enough knowledge about SDI/DI that strings aren't as amazing as they used to be. Wolf can SDI out of Peach's dair and uair/bair/nair/shine her, so... yeah. Basically. +1 at least imo :/ I can see it maybe being a +2 but there's nowhere near enough proof for that yet.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
[/QUOTE]I agree with this.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Parasolic shine bombing pushes Wolf all the way to A tier Ishiey...It makes Sheik unable to Ftilt lock us, Wario unable to cg us, and Pikachu unable to cg us.C tier is all very close, but to be completely honest putting Wolf anywhere in C tier is probably justifiable. All of his MUs above him are at worst borderline even until you hit D3 (I know that this alone isn't justification, but just sayin'). And what Seagull said about MKs. Wolf doing better than Fox vs MK is pushing it imo, but Wolf still benefits from MK keeping down other characters.
@ Peach's combos, it's not that she can't combo Wolf but that she has a hard time getting one started. At this point in the metagame there's enough knowledge about SDI/DI that strings aren't as amazing as they used to be. Wolf can SDI out of Peach's dair and uair/bair/nair/shine her, so... yeah. Basically. +1 at least imo :/ I can see it maybe being a +2 but there's nowhere near enough proof for that yet.
Actually Espy, its been over 9000 years since I went into the future to play the first gen pokemon games before going back in time and I was likely referencing that exact quote.
Also saved forever:
But I wouldn't be silly enough to make the mistake of trying to measure TIME with a measurement of DISTANCE.
Also saved forever:
But I wouldn't be silly enough to make the mistake of trying to measure TIME with a measurement of DISTANCE.
You do know that Wario can still CG wolf right? Parabolic Fart counters that, comes out frame 1 lasts 30 frames Wario has no lag and he can repeat it 3 times with full invincibility.
And the knockback on the move stacks.
And the knockback on the move stacks.
Browny
Smash Hater
John12346
Smash Master
What a lot of people don't realize is that that trainer actually corrects himself after the battle, stating that "light years is a measurement of distance, not time..."
A part of me just curled up and died.
Anyway on topic,
Marth v Sonic is +2 marth's favour.
Nike.
Smash Hero
I'd pay good money to see an Espy vs Shaya tourney set.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
D air, D tilt, N air(Autocanceled) and D throw on the ledge of battlefield on certain characters.
Browny
Smash Hater
I like your avatar Shaya
LOL
Also, X is all the proof in the world we need of it being Sonics advantage
Wolf vs. MK is really good, if you can flash cancel it gets even better because you have more room to recover.
I sometimes play germanys best MK with Wolf and the Match-up is fun and feels even I only struggle to get the kill (lack of experience with Wolf ) and Staco is like most experienced in the Wolf Match-up because he plays Semifer all day.
Wolf:MK for even (-1 though)
and don't ignore this http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12408082&postcount=1990 because it seems to be an important info
btw a universal ledge grab rule don't get involved now because of that, it's actually already present almost everywhere.
I sometimes play germanys best MK with Wolf and the Match-up is fun and feels even I only struggle to get the kill (lack of experience with Wolf
) and Staco is like most experienced in the Wolf Match-up because he plays Semifer all day.Wolf:MK for even
(-1 though)and don't ignore this http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12408082&postcount=1990 because it seems to be an important info
btw a universal ledge grab rule don't get involved now because of that, it's actually already present almost everywhere.
I agree with this post.Wolf vs. MK is really good, if you can flash cancel it gets even better because you have more room to recover.
I sometimes play germanys best MK with Wolf and the Match-up is fun and feels even I only struggle to get the kill (lack of experience with Wolf
Wolf:MK for even
Wolf is one of the characters, which can handle MK the best out of the -1 chars, which are listed in the MU chart.
John12346
Smash Master
Hey I just noticed
On the list, DK goes even with Shielda, but has a slight disadvantage against Sheik.
Wut.
On the list, DK goes even with Shielda, but has a slight disadvantage against Sheik.
Wut.
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
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- 2,154
Wolf is -1 with sheilda and sheik and I don't get the adv sheilda would have as zelda. Wolf ***** Zelda so I don't get how it's -1. Are they not counting turning into Zelda or something? I don't get this shielda business seems pretty stupid imo
Shielda can stay Shiek the full match.
While Seagull has quite some experience in certain match-ups it should be noted that his opinions don't necessarily reflect those of the Wolf community. Not that that's a problem but a bunch Wolves will disagree with Wolf being +1 against TL and Kirby and -1 with ROB. I'd put them all as 0.
What people say about Wolf vs MK is true. The one MK's opinion I'd be willing to COMPLETELY trust about that match-up is Staco btw if he tells you something about the match-up it's 90% true.
But I think Pit is better than Wolf and a whole bunch of other characters.
What people say about Wolf vs MK is true. The one MK's opinion I'd be willing to COMPLETELY trust about that match-up is Staco btw if he tells you something about the match-up it's 90% true.
But I think Pit is better than Wolf and a whole bunch of other characters.
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
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- 2,154
Well then that's what I mean it's pretty stupid to rate a character like that if Zelda isn't even going to be used. What's the whole point then? Sheilda is dumb
dainbramage
Smash Journeyman
^ the point is that shielda should be the optimal use of zelda and shiek, so her having a worse matchup than either of her constituents is lol
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Uh, shielda is good in blind picks because she can still transform.
Sheilda is viable in certain matchups like say for instance Pikachu. You go Zelda for the first 50% of each stock and you don't get the 0-death CG.
That makes the matchup better.
Or DDD since he lives to about 220 every stock against Sheik (no joke). But Zelda doesn't have too much of an issue getting a shield poke usmash or something. Matchup better.
In Wolfs case somebody would obviously stay Sheik the whole match, hence the same ratio as the Sheik matchup.
But yea. Zelda blows and her usefulness is limited to like 5 MU's maximum.
That makes the matchup better.
Or DDD since he lives to about 220 every stock against Sheik (no joke). But Zelda doesn't have too much of an issue getting a shield poke usmash or something. Matchup better.
In Wolfs case somebody would obviously stay Sheik the whole match, hence the same ratio as the Sheik matchup.
But yea. Zelda blows and her usefulness is limited to like 5 MU's maximum.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
i didn't know until i met him at whobo that tyrant plays zelda. i mean ya tyrant is MK but his zelda is really good. he uses her in like the few friendlies he plays lol
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Well yeah, Tyrant is good.
For reference though on Wolf v Fox. I feel myself buying into the hype of both characters in our current metagame. Since MK is so prevalent and Both of their bad matchups are rare, I can certainly see rises in both their stocks on the tier list.
Even now mains of both characters still do work. I'm actually not sure who is better between them now actually.
Might give the nod to Wofl.
For reference though on Wolf v Fox. I feel myself buying into the hype of both characters in our current metagame. Since MK is so prevalent and Both of their bad matchups are rare, I can certainly see rises in both their stocks on the tier list.
Even now mains of both characters still do work. I'm actually not sure who is better between them now actually.
Might give the nod to Wofl.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Sheilda is just using Sheik and Zelda in the most efficient way possible. If going all sheik is the best choice for the MU, then it should be the same as the all sheik mu, if going all Zelda is better, it should be the same as the Zelda mu, and if, for example, using sheik to build damage and Zelda to kill is the best option, then you take this into account for sheilda.
Sheilda just means that you CAN use the ability to change, not that you NEED to. If the switch hurts your chances, why would you change? That's like saying 'x character vs y character would be even, but since you HAVE to use this move even though the other options are better, it makes it more difficult'.
Sheilda just means that you CAN use the ability to change, not that you NEED to. If the switch hurts your chances, why would you change? That's like saying 'x character vs y character would be even, but since you HAVE to use this move even though the other options are better, it makes it more difficult'.
Marf huz fair
10-2s
Steam
Smash Hero
Marth has fair, unloseable matchup for marth obviously
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