Official BBR Tier List v7

[| Big D |]

bubba did your av always have a mustache?

and double DeDeDe is the greatest thing ever

I think you mean quad Dededes.

 

[bubbaking]

Everyone should main Dedede.

All matches everywhere
Dedede dittos.

We're so balanced, we even infinite ourselves!

bubba did your av always have a mustache?

Double ICs is awesome. If both parties keep their Nana, no-one can be CGed for once.

I once saw a ICs ditto in which Popo A grabbed Popo B and Nana A grabbed Nana B and they each started CGing the other. It was short-lived, but it was hilarious.

 

[Luco]

Do you mean, popo A grabbed Nana B and popo B grabbed nana A?

That would be incredible.

 

[bubbaking]

It doesn't really matter which order. All that mattered was that there were two CGs going on at once.

 

[Luco]

Hehehe, that is pretty cool.

What would you make the next tier list if you had to? I just want to get relevant discussion going on again lol.

 

[bubbaking]

I would put ICs at #2 and either Zelda, Link, CF, or Jiggs at the very bottom. That or I would tie everyone in Bottom Tier, but since people don't like that idea and we can't really theorycraft much about those chars, due to no one knowing too much about their full potentials and MUs, results dictate that Ganon shouldn't be last.

 

[FredFuchs]

by any chance, does anyone know when the next tier list will be released?

 

[C.J.]

Not for awhile. We're in the middle of the MU chart project atm. Phase 2 starts post-apex and once this is done we'll start the tier list sometime afterwards.

 

[FredFuchs]

k thanks man

 

[Luco]

Mine would probably look something like (and remember, i'm a noob who doesn't know nearly enough about this game):

top:
S:
A:
B:

high:
C:

borderline:
D:

mid:
E:
F:

low:
G:
H:


That's what mine would look like. Sorry for the perhaps radical changes to mid tier, I wasn't entirely sure whether sheik should be below yoshi...

Yeah, so, feel free to kill me for any of the changes i've made. >_>

And i have made a few of these changes because of tourney results...

 

[Celestial Luna]

Not for awhile. We're in the middle of the MU chart project atm. Phase 2 starts post-apex and once this is done we'll start the tier list sometime afterwards.

Thank you I was wondering a bit myself, also glad to see something's going on at the very least

 

[Iota]

Your tier list is invalid because Fox isn't H+ tier on it.

 

[Luco]

I didn't make any changes to borderline or high. Borderline, because I have no idea what any of the characters on it are doing except for wolf and high because Lucario has been doing really well lately, but so has ZSS, so has Dedede, so has TL....

Mid is where I made the brunt of my changes. Honestly, i'm considering moving sheik lower but I need some evidence before I do that.

 

[bubbaking]

Lucario has been doing well? All the Lucarios are gone!

 

[Iota]

Yeah..Lucario hasn't done well since...SKTAR afaik. After Trela quit his top level tourney results basically vanished.

 

[Luco]

Yeah..Lucario hasn't done well since...SKTAR afaik. After Trela quit his top level tourney results basically vanished.

Didn't he do decently at WHOBO 4 too? Umm, I could be wrong, let me find the results, I just assumed he got rather high, from watching vids and that. A sec.

EDIT: He came... 13th.

Out of 96, that's not too bad.

 

[bubbaking]

Until you remember that at least four or more people get 13th.

But yeah, that's pretty good.

 

[infiniteV115]

It's considered an 'upset' for Trela I guess (he lost to Shaky, and not to down Shaky or anything cause he's ****ing awesome but I'm fairly certain this qualifies as an upset since Shaky didn't have too many results under his belt) cause most people were probably predicting at LEAST top 8 for him but yeah 13th is still good.

 

[Luco]

I dunno, i'm open to change my border-line/mid things if people can give evidence to show. I tried not to move anything too drastically, so I hope there's nothing ridiculous in that or anything. ^_^

 

[Sky`]

Okay. Idk if this is relevant for any of you but I wanted to disclose some things.

I've been playing for like 10+ Hours a day for like 11 days, with Tyrant, Rich Brown, MikeHAZE, and some other people, and I've got some Matchup knowledge for Wario. (I love this game.)

First off, We might have the advantage vs Olimar.
MK Is -1 for us.
Marth is most def minus 2, might be our worst MU.
And im researching it now, but i think we can CG DDD and Snake from 50-220 which would be... Amazing.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

CG with down throw? How would that not have been discovered yet?

 

[ぱみゅ]

CG with down throw? How would that not have been discovered yet?

I'm pretty sure many people are not willign to work and experiment with Changrabs, it's a very extensive, specific, and annoying work...

 

[DMG]

Well actually, part of the problem is that there's literally no hard evidence that the Wario CG's he's talking about work. Someone back in 09 posted and said we can "boost pivot grab" Dedede, but there were no videos frame data inputs etc. Framewise I've looked at Wario's options and for the most part, these all sound too slow. A turn around pivot grab, a boost grab forward, etc. That's also assuming these options will reach: I'm not sure Wario's pivot grab outranges Wario's standing grab and it HAS to because it's already slower than the normal grab. Then there's uncertainly on how many frames these options add: we have to turn around pivot so that should add a dash frame somewhere and boost grabbing should involve a dash frame, then a DA frame, then cancelled. Etc


I really REALLY don't think those options work, but it's not been proven 100% of the way. What will work are:

1. Buffer turn around Dtilt (Dtilt is faster than Grab)

2. Turn around grab CG on the obvious characters

3. Turn around regrab on slopes. So say you Dthrow Snake or Dedede facing a slope. If they land on it and it's slanted enough, you can regrab them (the way it works is that when you Dthrow people and they land, they experience landing lag. When we regrab people normally, they are in landing lag but they may land a bit further out of our reach. During this time, if they land on a slope, they slide a bit back down the slope and go into our range to get grabbed) Technically, in places like the middle of Frigate's transformation, we can CG people like Snake and Dedede there for quite a bit. 100+ or so iirc.

4. If a wall is present, any move fast enough will land. Waft, Bite, Upb, dunno about jab or Fsmash.

 

[bubbaking]

I heard Wario DOES have CGs on people, though....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^lol

read the second thing dmg said and/or play the game moar

 

[bubbaking]

Well I've never been CG'd by a Wario before, so I have no business finding out who Wario can CG or whether they've all been lazy or not.

Edit: And I had no desire to read DMG's long post, this late at night... -_-

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol its not even that long. Its a paragraph plus a short list. Took me like 40 seconds to read it all max.

 

[DMG]

Wario's CG's are pretty well known, besides the one we have on Ganon and Falcon (which is still the regular Dthrow). The more complicated stuff like regrab on slopes, buffer Dtilt, etc I don't expect people to know or remember. Some of these finds are yearsssss old

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS so much better than Wario
ZSS for top tier pls

 

[Shaya]

But airdodge into grab so good.

 

[DMG]

Airdodge itself is so good. It would be amazing if it didn't have landing lag: that part screws Wario.

 

[bubbaking]

Sorry to be lost on today, but I was under the impression that ADs had as much landing lag as regular landings.....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

They do, Wario just has a lot of it.

 

[DMG]

Part of the problem is that Waro also likes to FF Airdodge into people. Hard landings will add more frames, and he can't afford that up close vs people who want to grab or OOS stuff him.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

zss top 5 at apex

B tier?

Girl, please.

 

[Shaya]

Marth's a D tier character and he's getting two placements in top 8.

Shut up.

 

[bubbaking]

Don't know why everyone was so keen on saying Marth should drop in the tier list. I think he's fine where he is. ZSS, on the other hand, could potentially be top tier material right here, and she definitely deserves to be ahead of Wario. Get that fat man OUT of top tier!

Edit: But even if ZSS isn't up to top tier snuff, Wario definitely shouldn't be up there either.

 

[allshort17]

I think people forgot how many Wario players made it in to bracket. Look at the results. It's a quantity over quality thing though. However, there were 3 accounts of High level Warios taking out each other. If anything, Pika's looking very weak.

 

[blacktwins13]

so yea, new tier list guys. Alot of Changes as well. Biggest Change is ZSS is now officially God Tier.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS won a national

Hmm, I don't think PIkachu, Wario or Marth have won nationals???