Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[The Mediator]

Scicky, I like your tier list, and it's good how you told us why you placed each person where, but...
I disagree with your placement of Kirby, ZSS, and ROB.

While Kirby is definitely not the greatest character out there, he's been buffed more than you seem to know. He has a couple decent kill moves, and can combo extremely well now. I would put him about 3-5 characters higher.

ZSS... well, I think that a majority of the people in this thread will agree with me that ZSS is... **** incarnate. You are right that nobody has truly "unlocked her potential" yet, but the amazing thing is, even though she's not being played to her full capacity, she's still VERY good. I would probably put her in high tier.

ROB is a powerhouse. However, the thing that makes him different from other powerhouses is that he's not incredibly slow. Yes, he isn't incredibly fast either, but strong and slightly below average speed makes a good combination. Also ROB's recovery is... ridiculous. I have a friend who plays ROB, and whenever he's fighting a Lucario, who then gets the smash ball, do you know what the friend who plays ROB does? He flies OVER Lucario.

 

[Steeler]

Can someone explain why Snake is almost unanimously top tier? I don't feel like searching through 80+ pages!! Not that I'm upset about it, I think Snake is absolutely a blast to play, but I was under the impression that he was a tad slow.

 

[Konuk]

Why cant we Just play the game based on the character not cuase of some list

Tiers R4 Queers http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/428847
-Dr.Wright

 

[Fletch]

Can someone explain why Snake is almost unanimously top tier? I don't feel like searching through 80+ pages!! Not that I'm upset about it, I think Snake is absolutely a blast to play, but I was under the impression that he was a tad slow.

To be good at Brawl, it is necessary to camp well. Snake does this quite well with all of his projectiles, he just takes a little while to get used to. This is why characters such as Toon Link are also seen as unanimously top tier.

 

[Scicky]

Scicky, I like your tier list, and it's good how you told us why you placed each person where, but...
I disagree with your placement of Kirby, ZSS, and ROB.

While Kirby is definitely not the greatest character out there, he's been buffed more than you seem to know. He has a couple decent kill moves, and can combo extremely well now. I would put him about 3-5 characters higher.

ZSS... well, I think that a majority of the people in this thread will agree with me that ZSS is... **** incarnate. You are right that nobody has truly "unlocked her potential" yet, but the amazing thing is, even though she's not being played to her full capacity, she's still VERY good. I would probably put her in high tier.

ROB is a powerhouse. However, the thing that makes him different from other powerhouses is that he's not incredibly slow. Yes, he isn't incredibly fast either, but strong and slightly below average speed makes a good combination. Also ROB's recovery is... ridiculous. I have a friend who plays ROB, and whenever he's fighting a Lucario, who then gets the smash ball, do you know what the friend who plays ROB does? He flies OVER Lucario.

Ah well, these are all characters I haven't played much or faced much, so
I wouldn't know so much about them, that's why it takes a group
to create a truly accurate Tier List >>

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Let's see.

-All of his good attacks combo insanely well.
-All of his moves do crazy damage.
-Many of his attacks are not only fast, but can multiple times and deal huge knockback.
-His Forward Smash is ridiculous.
-He has three projectiles and they're all awesome.
-Many of his airs have long duration and huge knockback.
-He can spike others easily.
-His Down Smash and Down Special are great traps.
-His Homing Missile is incredibly annoying.
-He has a great recovery.
-He's heavy.

Is that enough for you?

The only things I can think of that go against him are his slow jumps and smashes. His dash isn't even that slow.

He could be the best character in the game.

 

[scrubadub]

my first post

Hello all,

First time poster, long time lurker. It's too early for a tier list put I give my .02 about characters I've had the most experience with. I'll post more as I experience more...

Pit - The best camper in the game. This is due to him having the best projectile in the game. It's versatile, aimable, fast, and decently damaging. It can be used to cover his retreat and his recoveries, to tack on damage after a combo, as a long range poke. On top of that, he has two reflectors. One doubles as a short ranged attack that can rack on a bit of damage and the other reflects physical attacks also. Let's face it... Pit has CAMP written all over him. People have commented on his lack of killing power. F-smash and B-air should be saved for killing and he should be ok (need around 110%-120%). F-tilt, Fair, and D-smash (I think) can be used at higher percentages (150-160%).
Then when you finally close in on him, you then notice that he's also quick and mixes it up well up close. Solid if unspectacular ground game, but VERY good aerials. He is able to rack up some quick damage then run away again.
People who say his recovery is easily gimpable isn't using it correctly. First of all, he has a glide and 4 jumps (glide takes up one jump). UpB should only be activated as a last resort. Glide to cover the horizontal distance, then jump while firing arrows as you get closer to the stage. With his arrows and high priority air attacks, you should be relatively safe from being edgeguarded/spiked. If somehow, your opponent STILL gets into position to edgeguard you, get yourself slightly underneath the stage and activate UpB. The stage protects you from being gimped. If he still goes for the edgehog, fly to the other end of the stage. If not, fly back up and out and auto-edgegrab. Pit has an amazing amount of options/mindgames for recovery. Of course, this doesn't apply to stages like yoshi's island since you can't fly under it. Stages like that would make an good counterpick to Pit players.
I've had a lot of experimentation with him in considering him as a main. Overall, a very well rounded character. Mid to Upper High tier. Top tier potential.

G&W - Huge buffs. Lots of useful moves. Ability to attack with and control G&W after UpB is a huge advantage. Tons of kill options F-smash, D-smash, random ForwardBs, UpSmash (I've found it very difficult to connect though), Bucket against projectile characters. F-air and D-air at higher percentages. D-air has very little landing lag for an aerial dive move. UpB and Dair give him a lot of veritcal mobility. SH Bair is an amazing approach and pressure move. Eats through shields like they were snot filled tissues and unpunishable. Nair has good priority and deceptively large hitbox. D-tilt is a very good poke w/ good priority. Frying pan is an ok edgeguard, no other real uses. Bucket DESTROYS characters that rely heavily on projectiles (Zelda, Samus, and Pit, I'm looking in your direction...). A full bucket has a HUGE hitbox and kills in the 60s.
I've heard mixed reviews about his weird roll. So far, probably the only thing holding him back. His "props" give him good range and priority on most of his attacks. people will be afraid to try him b/c of how much he sucked in melee. But those who give him a shot will be rewarded. He'll fall somewhere in the high tier imo. Top tier potential.

Olimar - Amazing camping ability. Deals more damage while camping than anyone else due to pikmin latching on to you. UpB used on the ground can thwart aerial approaches. Has a ranged throw without the lag if you miss. Has a ranged smash that is quick. Those two things alone make him disgustingly powerful. If you don't understand why then you don't understand enough about this game. His tether recovery is the only thing holding him back or stopping him from being unbeatable. Obviously meant for advanced players who can micromanage pikmin order and color in the middle of battle. Not easy, I've tried!
At least upper high tier. Will probably be top tier...

Luigi - Jab, jab, UpB. Enough said. Kills at around 80% even with DI. Pros have got to be SALIVATING over that in a game where it's getting harder to land low percantage kills. B moves link together for amazing recovery. Aerials have no lag and combo together easily. Bair has high priority, range, and is safe. Fireballs fire at a faster rate. Only thing holding him back is his floaty jumps, which is covered up by high priority aerials.
Probably top tier. At least upper high tier. Light years better than mario in this game...

Samus - People have started using her Beam grapple in the air as an attack (or Z-air). It has no landing lag, comes out quickly, and has very good range (tiny damage tho). This has greatly accentuated her spacing game and ability to camp. UpB has been buffed in vertical distance. Samus is still good.
upper mid tier to lower high tier.

Marth - plays the same as melee marth for the most part despite his changes. Marth players have had the least adapting to do from melee to brawl thus making marth a regular in some early tournies with very good results. However, I think many of you are overrating him. He's lost a good amount of priority and range and doesn't have that ridiculous grab range anymore. Forward B is more useful and easier to land. UpB increased in horizontal distance. Let's face it. Everyone just has a mental block when fighting a marth from seeing him wreak havoc for years on your character. Marth just gives ppl the fear of God for just being Marth. Once you get beyond that, you'll notice he's a girly-man wearing a tiara who is still good but won't eat your children.
Somewhere in the high tier. Probably in the middle or below but high tier nonetheless.

Metaknight - I'll agree with the consensus on his lack of KO power. i think recoveries were made easier in this game so being an edgeguarder is a disadvantage as opposed to straight up KOs. Though I'll admit that MK is better at it than anyone else (him and ROB). He is light and can be KOed relatively earlier, though if not KOed he's definitely coming back.
Not much more to say. amazing comboability, priority, speed. ForwardB and NeutralB are for the most part useless (they leave you in freefall). Down B may take some creativity to use effectively, so there's unlocked potential there... maybe... He is what he is.
Lower high tier to upper mid tier.

These are all characters I've considered maining so I've tried them out extensively. Hope you guys found my observations useful. I'll make more comments as I try out more characters. Right now, I'm leaning towards pit just based on how solid he is. I will probably take a shot at toon link and pikachu next.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Weed]

I hate the fact that Pit's arrow will probably give him a much higher spot than he deserves..

 

[BigRick]

Why cant we Just play the game based on the character not cuase of some list

Most ppl are doing it already but if you are too weak minded to make your own decisions even with the existence of a list then I suggest you to simply not check into the thread.

 

[Steeler]

To be good at Brawl, it is necessary to camp well. Snake does this quite well with all of his projectiles, he just takes a little while to get used to. This is why characters such as Toon Link are also seen as unanimously top tier.

ahhh i see. thanks dude.

and if the camping bit is true (i trust it is), then why is Pokemon Trainer in the middle tier in so many lists? Ivysaur is a camping beast with Razor Leaf abuse and terrific range on his smashes, two of which are quite powerful as well. If PT is getting ranked near the middle because of the "i need to switch out of my best character" complex, then people should realize that all three are quite viable on their own. The magic of PT is the ability to adapt completely to the situation at hand.

For example, Squirtle really has trouble killing outright, a la Metaknight, perhaps. What Metaknight can't do is switch out to Ivysaur and nail the opponent with a quick, fresh Fsmash, as PT doesn't care about diminishing returns. And Charizard has good range on all of his attacks (not Ivysaur good, though), all of which are quite powerful as well. lol Rock Smash. And he's a stock tank with top weight and better recovery than most heavyweights out there.

I'm curious as to why Charizard is so low on most lists though (that rank each Poke individually).

PT is extremely hard to counter as an opponent, because for one, one of those three Pokes likely has a natural advantage over your character, and two, a good PT will be able to quickly adapt to the situation at hand and use all three Pokemon well.

Perhaps there aren't many competitive PTs out there (the PT character board is pretty barren :\) but once people start mastering all three Pokes and the art of switching Pokemon to suit your needs, PT will be a force to be reckoned with.

I compare PT to Melee Ice Climbers. ICs were but an afterthought at first, but with time and patience, ICs were (are) a monster. PT requires you to master three separate, quite different characters at once, but master all three and you have quite a beast on your hands.

Or maybe I'm just missing something and all of this is dumb and useless. :]

 

[BigRick]

Lucario has a stupid character design... he only reaches maximum effiency after taking damge?

No thanks, I'd rather deal the damage first.

 

[milkshake33]

ok maybe its just me, but imho pikachu is very deserving of top tier..... her insane range and priority blows my mind, not to mention a rediculous projectile.... anyone see where im going with this?

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

yes, pikachu has been noted as being a great character this time around.

the problem is, most people are noobs who just throw any character they don't use into the low or middle tiers.

pikachu's not deserving of top tier, as he's just not on the same level as marth/olimar/snake and others, but i can easily imagine seeing pikachu in brawl tournaments.

 

[Fletch]

ahhh i see. thanks dude.

and if the camping bit is true (i trust it is), then why is Pokemon Trainer in the middle tier in so many lists? Ivysaur is a camping beast with Razor Leaf abuse and terrific range on his smashes, two of which are quite powerful as well. If PT is getting ranked near the middle because of the "i need to switch out of my best character" complex, then people should realize that all three are quite viable on their own. The magic of PT is the ability to adapt completely to the situation at hand.

For example, Squirtle really has trouble killing outright, a la Metaknight, perhaps. What Metaknight can't do is switch out to Ivysaur and nail the opponent with a quick, fresh Fsmash, as PT doesn't care about diminishing returns. And Charizard has good range on all of his attacks (not Ivysaur good, though), all of which are quite powerful as well. lol Rock Smash. And he's a stock tank with top weight and better recovery than most heavyweights out there.

I'm curious as to why Charizard is so low on most lists though (that rank each Poke individually).

PT is extremely hard to counter as an opponent, because for one, one of those three Pokes likely has a natural advantage over your character, and two, a good PT will be able to quickly adapt to the situation at hand and use all three Pokemon well.

Perhaps there aren't many competitive PTs out there (the PT character board is pretty barren :\) but once people start mastering all three Pokes and the art of switching Pokemon to suit your needs, PT will be a force to be reckoned with.

I compare PT to Melee Ice Climbers. ICs were but an afterthought at first, but with time and patience, ICs were (are) a monster. PT requires you to master three separate, quite different characters at once, but master all three and you have quite a beast on your hands.

Or maybe I'm just missing something and all of this is dumb and useless. :]

That's a good comparison. I think PT will get better with time when people start to master the idea of having to use all 3 pokemon. However, I think Squirtle is the most beastly right now. Don't know if he will ever be top tier, but he might move up a bit. I just don't think he will ever be able to compare with characters like Olimar, Toon Link, Pit, Marth, and MK who are too fast and spammy to allow PT to switch characters effectively.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

switch when they're off the stage. pit and metaknight WILL come back if you don't ko them, so if you feel like you really need it, then switch then.

or you can switch while their character is reviving. honestly, the switching system is not a big disadvantage for pokemon trainer. people feel like they have to switch every 20 seconds... you don't. you can finish off two stocks with ivysaur before moving on to charizard.

EDIT: and yes, in time, pokemon trainer will be recognized as a higher tiered character. he's not on the level of the top tier characters, but each of the pokemon trainer's pokemon are surprisingly effective. squirtle can combo in a game where most people believe comboing has been removed, ivysaur is just an all-around monster, and charizard has absolutely ridiculous killing power along with some of the best survivability in the game.

i'm telling you people, in time, pokemon trainers are going to be wrecking those of you who didn't see it coming.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Ivysaur is also beastly if you figure out his strengths. He uses all kinds of attacks: High ranged, a projectile, damage racking moves, and awesome killing moves.

I haven't gotten used to Charizard yet, but I'm sure Charizard has an excellent role.

 

[theONEjanitor]

heres my opinion so far. note i only included the characters who i've spent a bit of time playing with and against, so not all characters are included here.

top tier
marth is marth, he still has more range than most characters, his tippers are still massive, f-air is still ridiculous.
toon link, i think we all agree with this for now.
olimar: dude is sick. recovery sucks but he more than makes up for it.

high tier
meta knight, has priority over everything, not to mention gliding and 5 jumps. would be the best character if he had kill moves
fox, speed, kill moves, projectile, good aerial and ground game. recovery is good too.
kirby. amazingly buffed, maddd combos, mad kill moves, mad recovery.
diddy, bananas ****, great recovery. amazing mindgames. if he had kill moves he'd be god tier.
dedede, good recovery, five jumps, projectiles. slowness keeps him from god tier
zelda: prolly second most buffed to kirby, much faster, and alot of her already strong moves are stronger. recovery still is lame.
sheik: doesn't **** the cast like before, and doesnt' chaingrab like before, but other than that, virtually the same which means good
snake: awkward character, but very efficient. recovery isnt too good, but he's got a lot of good moves. he's one of the easier character to combo though. i'm thinkin high or middle tier.
Ike: a ****ing beast. he could move to top tier if his metagame is developed. right now the only thing keeping him from there is his overwhelming laggyness and slowness, but i can see people developing him to make that not of a problem.
lucas: lots of set ups, lots of kill moves, recovery is decent, and seems like hes got more techs than everyone so far. good character
pika: pika is sick, much faster, and still have the same strong moves. feels like he has more range. lag hurts him at time, but all in all much better than melee.

middle/lower tier:
link: slower, the changes to him are mostly aesthetic, virtually the same blah character
Luigi: better than melee version, but doesn't hold up to the big boys. virtually the same character. the fact that he recovers from his side b so much quicker realllly helps his recovery, which is one of the main reasons he was so low last time.
Ganon: not nearly as nerfed as people think. i can see him being high or middle tier. great power and a lot of approaches. just play him smart and he's a great character.
jiggs: i can see jiggs being good. wall of pain isn't as effective, but its still a threat, and there are still setups for the rest.
ness: not low tier anymore imo, he's a lot stronger, more easy to kill people

garbage tier:
yoshi still sucks, although he's probably higher than in melee
Sonic: easily edgeguarded, no kill moves, no combos, blah moves.
Falcon: he's almost unplayable now. relies SOLELY on mindgames. he only has approaches on a few characters.
Mario: possibly the most blah character in the game, doesn't have any effective strategies against any characters, still lacks kill moves and approaches.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Does anyone else think of Lucario as a Meta Knight counter? I mean, a character who gets stronger as it takes damage against a character who's great at racking up damage but not killing? It seems pretty good for Lucario >.>

Also, Pit is not a better camper than Toon Link. The arrows are pretty good, but they don't give the the versatility of Tinks three projectiles. Plus, the fact that he has three spammable projectiles means that you won't have to worry as much about them becoming stale. So yeah, Tink >>>>>>> Pit

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Pokemon trainer is great.

Ivysaur and squirtle are phenomenal characters.

Charizard isn't that great but he helps to round out the trio.

Squirtle has great killing power and can set up an opponent for either 2 if he falls.
Ivysaur is the same, but slower however great grab range complements that also he actually has one of the better recovery's as the tether range is longer than either of the 2's Up B's.

Charizard is bowser slow but with better horizontal movement, his Fair has a decent range and allows him to approach.

can switch from speed, balanced or power to give opponent a horrible time.
____
As of my experience yoshi is not as bad as people make him out to be,
He seems faster than in melee from when I play him, the egg toss has been nerfed and buffed, less control over it than in melee but upwards momentum helps at times.
he's middle tier at least.
++++++
Dk is bad, that or im using him badly, sideb comes out to slow, down b has to much wind up, up b has far to little vertical recovery and the horizontal recovery can be annoying in that you stay in it for to long.

Aerials are slow.
---------
Toon link has it going on.
----------------------
Lucario is not that bad!, he gets stronger as he takes damage yes, but he's not horrible at low damage either.

Up B goes into a wall hang thing... I dunno, he sticks to the edge of a surface (like the hook under FD) like spiderman. Which has saved me about 6 times when I went under FD's ledge.
Double team is exactly like counter and his side B is nice in the fact that it's a short range attack that he can use without putting himself in any danger.
Ignoring lucario because he becomes stronger while taking damage is loosing out.
------------------------
Mario...question.....ummm.......whats his down B do because its confusing me, it's just pushing right. I was fortunate enough to be able to edgeguard with it once....although I don't use mario alot.
------
Eh sonics not that...bad.
does have kill moves and homing attack can edge guard, and if it fails he can upB to safety.
------
Pits shield does more than reflect projectiles, it can block attacks as well.

 

[theONEjanitor]

marios Down b is a water attack that you have to charge up each time before you use. as far as i'm aware it doesn't do any damage, just knockback.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Top:

Snake
Toon Link
Marth
Falco

High:

Pit
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Luigi
Fox
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Pikmin and Olimar

High-Middle:

Ike
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Mr. Game & Watch
Meta Knight
Zelda

Middle:

Pikachu
Lucario
Samus
Ness
Kirby
Wario
Mario
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Bowser
Sonic
Link
Sheik

Middle-Low:
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Yoshi
Jigglypuff

Low:
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

Fixed it up some more.

Not bad, pretty close to my tier list


On a side note, an easy way to check is someones list is BS or not is to check where they put snake

 

[BigRick]

so if I put snake on top and toon link at bottom you would say that my list is ok?

 

[timbu]

everyone seems to just be overestimating characters because they don't understand their weaknesses well enough yet.

anyone who says olimar is top tier or even high tier is not thinking correctly. if a tier list is about having the best overall matchups and every single character in the game can hit him off and gimp him at a low percentage (horrible recovery), he is not a good character (anyone remember the 64 tier list with Link?).

the lists with 15 characters in high tier are just lists which cannot stand on their own yet due to lack of inexperience.

my take is that zelda is one of the best characters in the game now. she doesn't have one move that isn't usable for damage or killing, her strongest moves have no lag before or after (and also can be used interchangeably when one gets stale), and i would argue that she has the best projectile in the game (not pit).

 

[nickomahen]

Top:
Toon Link
Marth

High:
Pit
Olimar
Diddy Kong
King DeDeDe
Falco
Wolf
Fox
Pikachu
Mr. Game and Watch
Snake

Middle:
Metaknight
Shiek
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Sonic
Luigi
Kirby
Pokemon Trainer
Ike
Lucario
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Peach

Low:
Ness
Lucas
Wario
Link
Bowser
Donkey Kong

Bottom:
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Mario
Yoshi
Ganondorf

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Screw it
Ivysaur and squirtle are high tier.

or if to put PT into 1 category is high tier,
He's so versatile to put him in anything under makes no sense.
Yoshi is not bottom tier, shouldn't be on anyones bottom tier, he's better than that
Middle or Low tier is where he should be.



DK should be on the bottom, one of the worst experiences so far.


Lucas and ness are good, better than or lesser than yoshi, not sure so far.
Which means if yoshi is middle there either higher up on him or a bit lower.

 

[J0K3R]

Top:
Toon Link
Marth

High:
Pit
Olimar
Diddy Kong
King DeDeDe
Falco
Wolf
Fox
Pikachu
Mr. Game and Watch
Snake

Middle:
Metaknight
Shiek
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Sonic
Luigi
Kirby
Pokemon Trainer
Ike
Lucario
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Peach

Low:
Ness
Lucas
Wario
Link
Bowser
Donkey Kong

Bottom:
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Mario
Yoshi
Ganondorf

This list is mostly ok, but G-dorf at bottom is bull

 

[Evilpenguin]

Top:
Toon Link
Marth

High:
Pit
Olimar
Diddy Kong
King DeDeDe
Falco
Wolf
Fox
Pikachu
Mr. Game and Watch
Snake

Middle:
Metaknight
Shiek
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Sonic
Luigi
Kirby
Pokemon Trainer
Ike
Lucario
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Peach

Low:
Ness
Lucas
Wario
Link
Bowser
Donkey Kong

Bottom:
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Mario
Yoshi
Ganondorf

This is the first decent list I've seen. My only qualms are Lucas and Mario. I think they are both mid tier, maybe even high for Lucas. Everything else looks good. Do you mind giving reasoning on Mario and Lucas. Maybe I'll come around to your point of view.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do people keep bashing Sonic? It's always "Sonic can only run" this and "Sonic can only run" that. Well, I got news for ya, people:

irn2chse

That guide has everything that makes Sonic at least high tier.

 

[rblair]

i think peach should be moved to around the top of low not the bottom of midlow. peach is the only char im happy got nerfed in brawl

 

[Theftz22]

Sonic is underrated in all of the tier lists. He can rack up damage faster than anyone else (with the possible exception of metaknight) with his crazy speed and combos. As for finishing, some finishes are: his A-up move when your opponent is in the air.
A-side smash.
B-side charged and then jump when you hit your opponent.
Active edgeguarding (anyone who cannot do this does not deserve to make a tier
list.
Also, his b-up move can recover most falls, and you can still execute moves after using it.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Sonic pisses off my pikmin when he runs over them >.>
he's not bad.


DK still blows the chunks!

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

lol @ people basing their tier lists off items and smashballs and ****. Guess what guys? That **** doesn't matter in tournament play, so keep it out of the thread, since it holds no weight here.

Anyway, lol @ Metaknight being anywhere aside from top tier. And, lol @ wolf being anywhere aside from top tier.

Marth, Wolf, TL, Meta, Pit, Snake...those guys are all far superior to the other characters in this game.

 

[Manic_1]

I'm thinking toon link is absolutly top teir and possibly the best character in the game. I havent found a truely bad match up yet. (correctly if I'm wrong on that one)

I think that pit is definitly high tier but I'm not sure about top tier.

Meta Knight feels like high tier with his fast damage rack up, great WoP, and a great uair combo.

I think that Lucas might be high tier as well.

At first I was thinking that Olimar was high tier but his recovery is so easy rediculusly easy to gimp that I've changed my mind.

Zelda was buuuuuuufffffffffeeeeeeddd.

I've play with Ganondorf a bit and I think he is terrible.

 

[Ignatious]

I'm making this tier list, not to try to make it as the most accurate or to boast my knowledge of the game, in fact it's quite the opposite. I'm just getting into competitive SSB, and I just want to explain where my perspective stands as far as understanding the characters goes.

Top:
Pit
Toon Link
Wolf
Marth

High:
Meta Knight
Sonic
Pikachu
Zero Suit Samus
Olimar
Sheik
Squirtle
Zelda

Middle:
King Dedede
Snake
Falco
Ivysaur
Fox
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Lucario
Ike
Charizard
Samus
Rob
Mr. Game and Watch
Wario

Low:
Mario
Link
Luigi
Kirby
Yoshi
Ness
Peach
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

Bottom:
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Ice Climbers
Ganondorf

Bash if you want, I realize that I'm a noob.

 

[Pythag]

Top Tier
Toon Link
Wolf
Diddy Kong
Pikmin & Olimar
Pit
Marth
Lucario
Mr. Game & Watch
Ike
Meta Knight
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Zero Suit Samus
Sheik
Squirtle
Mario
Falco Lombardi
Lucas
Luigi
Fox McCloud
Charizard
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Kirby
Wario
Princess Zelda
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Pikachu
Ivysaur
Princess Peach
Solid Snake
Sonic the Hedgehog

Bottom Tier
Ness
Donkey Kong
Link
Bowser
Ganondorf
Samus Aran

..I think this will make most everyone happy.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

I love that ganondorf is at the bottom of EVERY teir list.

Just makes me feel better whenever I own people.

 

[Pythag]

I understand that being a dk main. I really liked ganon in melee, and I'm actually upset with what they did to him in brawl. I don't think he's as bad as they say...but what are you gonna do.

 

[C 3]

marios Down b is a water attack that you have to charge up each time before you use. as far as i'm aware it doesn't do any damage, just knockback.

I've found mario's down b quite useful when a character has used a move where they need to hit the ground to move again (for example, luigi's up B). When they've used the move, u use mario's down B to push them off the stage, they don't get to touch the ground and they can't do anything about it and die.

 

[Replacement100]

CF can't really combo that well.

Honestly he still ahs his weaknesses from melee plus new ones.

The only thing that improved was his recovery.

The knee is much harder to hit with and you can't combo into it.

CF lacks the tools to do well in this game with this engine.

Brawl is all about high utility moves. Moves that are useful in different situations.

Moves for spacing, mobility, projectiles, kill moves, control moves, pressure moves, etc.

Basically you need moves that are fairly safe on block, come out relatively quick, reliable, and strong or good for racking up damage.

......

Me and my friend call him Captain Failure now.

It's hilarious, I read your posts as haikus.

 

[Yoshi The Super Dragon]

i think yoshi is at least mid mid low tier not low or bottom