Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Kurosagi]

falco should be on the top of any tier list you guys create. he is just ridiculous.

 

[Tark]

.....

Can we all agree that the high/top tiers are --> Toon Link, Pit, Snake, Olimar, Wolf, and MetaKnight?

So ur saying marth is not Top/High Tier?

 

[Demolisho]

Beautiful, just the response I expected from an immature and ignorant person that can't think for himself. All I said was if he can be more serious about that and you come in and insult me. Talk about lack of self-control over a forum; and I'm sure you wouldn't say that to me in real life.

First off, I wasn't insulting you. I asked a simple question. You're the one who insulted me.

And lastly, I would ask you that in real life. With nothing to fear.

Your hypocrisy=very apparent.

 

[Marty]

I haven't really experimented with Falco enough to really say (I'll admit, the loss of SHL hit me really hard), but what makes him so fantastic?

 

[BDawgPHD]

Jigglypuff isn't bottom tier, he's basically what he was before, except his aerials got buffs and his rest was, well, taken away. Move degradation hurts Jigglypuff, but there are ways around that. Also, I think Captain Falcon, as always, will take a lot of skill to learn, but will be good. He's still fast and strong. The problem is people don't know how to use him as a Brawl character....they keep trying to combo and use things like the knee, and that makes him seem bad. His nair and uair are still beastly, his stomp is good, if anything the horizontal knockback will benefit him, his bair is awesome, the knee still kills, he doesn't get gimped like he used to, and you can still chase and do things like jab to grab, or jab to dsmash.

I don't know about Olimar being top tier, he's easily gimped, especially off the stage, and I don't have an informed opinion of Pit...I don't think his kill moves have the range that he needs.

I haven't really experimented with Falco enough to really say (I'll admit, the loss of SHL hit me really hard), but what makes him so fantastic?

Falco has excellent control over the battlefield. His spam camp game is almost as good as Pit's, his reflector is good for controlling a lot of space immediately in front of you and is instant, and he's a generally good fighter. Though he only has a few really good killing moves, he's an excellent character.

For the guy who doesn't think Meta Knight is top tier, you don't realize that there are many smart players who know how to use him well out there. Meta Knight is all about putting pressure on with quick, lagless disjointed attacks and just knocking people around. There's no reason why Meta Knight shouldn't be top tier, and I for one think he's the top of the tier list.

 

[Corner-Trap]

Here's my tier list discussion on SRK. I have very detailed explanations for all the placings, and we're deciding this list as a community instead of individually.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=152409

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i agree that metaknight should be top. i don't mean he's the best, but if top tier was 5 characters, he should be in there.

 

[BDawgPHD]

That's cute, the community.....well, the community is stupid...that's why we have the BRoomers determine the tier list, because they AREN'T stupid. Not that none of us are smart, but all this is just speculatory. But come on, your list is just ridiculous. It overlooks a bunch of characters....you should really just do what I did and make partial, half-baked tier lists

 

[uremog]

^ amen. they typically hold off until they can get an informed decision, which it looks like they're doing. just cause you don't play a character or your friend plays a character poorly doesn't warrant a tier position. and for that matter, just because you play a character or think your friend plays a character well doesn't either. chances are a single person's perspective isn't wide enough to make the call.

 

[rabbitgod]

what does disjoint mean? Dont call me a n00b.

 

[TheLake]

Just think "swords" when you hear that magical world (:

 

[nviv]

yea disjointed is usually referring to a hitbox that is extended away from the character, it allows a character to hit his opponent with little worry he'll be hit back, Mr Game & Watch also has good disjointed hitboxes.

To keep the thread on topic here's my two cents,

I feel Pikachu and Mr. Game & Watch are overlooked by most of the community and although not top 5 they are very balanced characters with just a few weaknesses, both have good kill moves and can control a match very well when someone is experienced with them. My top tier right now would have to be marth, metaknight, olimar, snake, and toon link, not necessarily in the order. I'd put Pikachu, Mr. Game & Watch, Wolf, Falco, Fox and Pit in the next tier, again not in that order.

 

[trademark0013]

tier list:

Top:
metaknight
marth
deedeedee

not top:
everyone else

 

[Ferry]

I've read a bunch of pages of this thread. It's interesting to see how many of you don't favor Pit as top tier.

 

[-Mars-]

I think people are beginning to realize that Pit has several weaknesses that are beginning to be exposed. His recovery is also easily gimped, which i think will hold him back, but he probably should still be high tier.

 

[lumberheartwood]

Oh wow. So opinionated here. I know you guys are gathering research so I'm being honest here. I've played with people from around the country, and I can safely say that no one I've played against, or I, have used: Mario, Lucario, King Dedede, and Olimar. These four are either neglected or for the professional tactician. Game & Watch is a great character for the experienced player willing to take time to practice with him, as well as Jigglypuff. Fox and Falco, I have no comment on, although in my take, I do like Falco a lot better than Fox. Ironic huh?!

The characters who I've seen first hand be unstoppable in the right hands are: Snake, Luigi, Peach, Lucas, Ness (so great-my view), Yoshi, Zelda (as her own), Sheik, Ike, Sonic, Toon Link, Link, Wolf, Pit, Pikachu (its amazing, reminds me of the good ol' SSB days), Meta Knight, PK Trainer, R.O.B., and Kirby. I haven't played any Marth users so I'm unbias with him at the moment. Sonic is great, but I haven't seen him used much in matches I fight in.

Just trying to be helpful. I've rarely battled with people who've used the heavy weights like DK, Bowser, and Wario, but I've seen great people use them.

*Also, Ganondorf is not at all horrible. He is in fact really awesome to play as and he's great in matches. I know firsthand. :D

 

[Corner-Trap]

That's cute, the community.....well, the community is stupid...that's why we have the BRoomers determine the tier list, because they AREN'T stupid. Not that none of us are smart, but all this is just speculatory. But come on, your list is just ridiculous. It overlooks a bunch of characters....you should really just do what I did and make partial, half-baked tier lists

If this is directed towards me:

1) SRK is a bit more of a mature community than SWF, so I'm not worried about stupidity.
2) If you're going to say our list is ridiculous and overlooks a bunch of characters, at least give some examples of what you mean, and we have several mains for every character posting in that thread, so I doubt we're overlooking that much.
3) I hope you're joking on the last part.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Wait until we figure out a lot of techs and mindgames before you can make anything.

 

[Dream Chaser]

Tier lists are like horroscopes. Theyre interesting to read, but you shouldnt live your life by them.

 

[DiasFlac]

Bowser God tier. Why? He's Bowser.

/End thread

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

tier list:

Top:
metaknight
marth
deedeedee

not top:
everyone else

sorry bro, DDD ain't top

 

[templar rage]

tier list:

Top:
metaknight
marth
deedeedee

not top:
everyone else

Neither is MK, no KO potential. I would like to hear your reasoning though. Posting something without proof gets you nowhere except peoples bad sides, and gets you nothing but bad comments.

 

[Bobz]

DDD is definitely top tier.

Chillin has gone to two tourneys recently, and not counting matches lost to azen, he's only lost a couple matches, easily getting second twice in a row. I play him and another great ddd down here at tech, I can assure you the penguin is top tier. The only thing holding him back is he's slightly awkward, so people havent sat down and tried to play him that much...

ddd can chain throw all but ten characters, giving him a nice advantage in every other match up
solid projectile for camping/spamming purposes
great reach with the mallet
great strength with many of his moves, actually, I'm hard pressed to think of a move he has isn't good
great recovery, he can chain throw off the level, then try for three forward airs before he even has to worry about recovering
hes heavy, so he can survive quite a lot of things
and he can suicide kill anyone that comes out to edge guard him, quickly evening up if hes behind by %

I just don't see any bad match ups for him, just more even ones like meta. I will say that tech doesnt have much space animal action, or a good olimar, so I haven't seen those characters much against him.

 

[Dime]

2264 posts. Are we getting any closer to a definitive tier list?
I hope so

 

[2DLogic]

No. We still haven't got any reliable results from tournaments yet. And that is what makes tiers.

Tournament results reflect accurate tier lists, they do not determine them.

That's cute, the community.....well, the community is stupid...that's why we have the BRoomers determine the tier list, because they AREN'T stupid. Not that none of us are smart, but all this is just speculatory. But come on, your list is just ridiculous. It overlooks a bunch of characters....you should really just do what I did and make partial, half-baked tier lists

If you're just going to wait for your back room idols to determine the list then why even bother making "partial, half-baked" lists, in fact why bother with those at all? All a "half-baked" list does is convolute what could be a legitimate discussion thread; something it seemed you were even taking part in a couple posts up from the quoted one.
When you let someone else decide something for you you have no right to question it once it's decided and I'll be ****ed if it's not counter-intuitive for a community's growth to have a few people calling all the shots.

As for Corner-Trap's list, while I have some things that I personally disagree with, I still say that it's one of the most viable posted so far, if for no other reason than it provides explanation for placement.

Neither is MK, no KO potential.

To say that he has no KO potential is excessive, obviously he has less traditional KO potential than many characters, but he is one of easier characters to chase off the sides with for gimp kills. He can also get kills relatively easily in stages with low ceilings by chasing up with his u-air>shuttle loop.

 

[pidgey14]

*sigh* I laugh at those who still think Yoshi has been nerfed, and think the lost of DJC was a major nerf to him. he has been BUFFED.I may still have to wait but I have been reading what the PROS say about Yoshi's buffs and nerfs are. I also been seeing the changes of Yoshi by watching a pro (Dogger) play as him.
And overall, he has been BUFFED. Not be able to jump out of a shield may be one nerf, and his Dsmash may be nerfed too, but everything else has been normal or buffed.

Another thing is people keep thinking that Yoshi is now no longer good because the lost of DJC. To be honest, he actually has become much better without it (but it is obviously that idiots don't know that because they don't even pay any attention to the pros and ignore whatever they say). If you actually gave Yoshi a chance and had decent practice, you would actually know how much he has IMPROVED. seriously, his nerfs ain't as major as you think.

 

[Metro Knight]

Game and Watch should be higher than in melee. DK should be higher, Bowser seems better. Yoshi and Kirby seem better. Peach, Samus, C.Falcon, Ganon, Shiek, Mario, and Luigi seem worse. I personally like Fox better, however without the shine, I am not sure how he will be ranked amongst expert fox players. Falco seems very good still.

-Top
Marth
Diddy
Dedede
Falco
Lucas
Toon Link
-High
Fox
Wolf
Ness
Link
Game and Watch
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Ike
Donkey Kong
Meta Knight
Pit
Zamus
-Middle
Luigi
Mario
Lucario
Snake
Captain Falcon
Peach
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Shiek
Zelda
R.O.B.
Wario
-Low
Pikachu
Yoshi
Sonic
Ganondorf
Bowser
Kirby
Olimar

 

[VEC]

Where do you guys put the old top/high tiers?
fox, falco, sheik, marth, peach?

 

[PwB Hun]

Game and Watch should be higher than in melee. DK should be higher, Bowser seems better. Yoshi and Kirby seem better. Peach, Samus, C.Falcon, Ganon, Shiek, Mario, and Luigi seem worse. I personally like Fox better, however without the shine, I am not sure how he will be ranked amongst expert fox players. Falco seems very good still.

-Top
Marth
Diddy
Dedede
Falco
Lucas
Toon Link
-High
Fox
Wolf
Ness
Link
Game and Watch
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Ike
Donkey Kong
Meta Knight
Pit
Zamus
-Middle
Luigi
Mario
Lucario
Snake
Captain Falcon
Peach
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Shiek
Zelda
R.O.B.
Wario
-Low
Pikachu
Yoshi
Sonic
Ganondorf
Bowser
Kirby
Olimar

i lol'd

10 characters

 

[Trozz]

You'd think characters are low tier until you come across someone who knows how to use said character and mops the floor with your face. I still say that Pit, Meta, Zelda, and Lucas are high tier. No comments for 'low tier'.

 

[Corner-Trap]

Where do you guys put the old top/high tiers?
fox, falco, sheik, marth, peach?

Fox- High
Falco- Top
Sheik- Mid
Marth- Top
Peach- Mid

i lol'd

10 characters

Why do people keep wasting space by making posts simply saying "failure" or "lol". Is that meant to be funny or something? You're only wasting forum space by making such useless posts.

 

[supercake]

yes lucas is high tier. but toon link will soon surpass everyone.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

Why do people keep wasting space by making posts simply saying "failure" or "lol". Is that meant to be funny or something? You're only wasting forum space by making such useless posts.

the list he was lol'ing at doesn't deserve to be debated.

pikachu and olimar in the bottom tier? honestly? there's no point in discussing tiers with anyone that has such a horrible, horrible, horrible opinion.

 

[ZMan]

Has anybody here seen the SRK tier list? Just posting it incase anyone missed it: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=152409 (Pro tip: click on the first spoiler button.)

I really don't agree with falco being the best, but that's just me.

 

[Mune]

That SRK tier list seems somewhat good, but Mario at bottom? What? Not sure if I'm missing something, but he seems likes he should be much higher.

 

[VEC]

Mario is TRASH

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

DDD is definitely top tier.

Chillin has gone to two tourneys recently, and not counting matches lost to azen, he's only lost a couple matches, easily getting second twice in a row. I play him and another great ddd down here at tech, I can assure you the penguin is top tier. The only thing holding him back is he's slightly awkward, so people havent sat down and tried to play him that much...

ddd can chain throw all but ten characters, giving him a nice advantage in every other match up
solid projectile for camping/spamming purposes
great reach with the mallet
great strength with many of his moves, actually, I'm hard pressed to think of a move he has isn't good
great recovery, he can chain throw off the level, then try for three forward airs before he even has to worry about recovering
hes heavy, so he can survive quite a lot of things
and he can suicide kill anyone that comes out to edge guard him, quickly evening up if hes behind by %

I just don't see any bad match ups for him, just more even ones like meta. I will say that tech doesnt have much space animal action, or a good olimar, so I haven't seen those characters much against him.

unfortunately, a lot of the characters that he can't chain throw are good characters. and his ridiculously slow speed really holds him back against any character with a good, quick pressure game. suicide killing is a lot more questionable than you are making it seem.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

That SRK tier list seems somewhat good, but Mario at bottom? What? Not sure if I'm missing something, but he seems likes he should be much higher.

I agree. His juggling ability is insane.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I main DeDeDe and while I feel he is really good I don't think he is top tier. Probably high. His biggest problem is that all of the characters that he has a bad match-up against are also all the most frequently played characters. Fox/Falco/Pit/Metaknight all give him trouble. I also think his chaingrab is overrated. People seem to talk about it alot as if it is some great gamebreaking move. It's nice to have, it isn't a reason to play him.

 

[MASAHIROx]

mk is top

no bull