Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[PIMPSLAP]

thise is true my friend.....
look at Royr only has like200 post and he wins tourny ALOT

 

[M.K]

Pikachu is disgustingly good, especially stupid Thunder spam.
God ****, I lost FOUR TIMES to a single Pikachu with all four of my mains (Pokemon Trainer/Lucas/Zero Suit Samus/Olimar).
Down Smash is ****, Thunder has no lag whatsoever, and Thunder Jolt spam just makes it hard to APPROACH him.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

pick up snake f-tilt his spam through grenade at him whn he thunders hold a grenade when he down smash and you will win

 

[Sikarios]

Pikachu is good, high tier definitely. But not impossible. Olimar provides a great counter thanks to Pikmin toss and avoiding Pika's Dsmash and Thunder attacks becomes easier after awhile. The Dsmash has crazy magnetizing properties, so just wait for the small sliver of lag to dash grab.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

pika's not top tier snake meda and falco counter him and he only has few great match ups.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Hey I remember seeing a good post on how G&W is so good somewhere in this topic, could someone pull it up?

 

[Sikarios]

My List

For what it's worth, I'm sure it's got problems :

Top Tier:
Pikachu
Meta Knight
Wolf
Marth
Toon Link
Pit

High Tier:
Falco
Snake
Olimar
R.O.B.
Diddy Kong
Mr. Game & Watch
Sheik


High-Mid Tier:
Lucario
Fox
Lucas
Kirby
Luigi
Zelda

Mid Tier:
P. Trainer
King Dedede
Ice Climbers
Wario
lke
Mario
Donkey Kong
Jigglypuff
Zero Suit Samus
Captain Falcon


Low tier:
Ness ( I love Ness, but he lost more than gained)
Sonic
Peach
Bowser
Link
Yoshi

Bottom Tier:
Samus
Ganondorf

--

I honestly don't think anyone really deserves to be in a low/bottom position but that's the way we construct these things, it seems.

I think my list is pretty solid for the most part, and I tend to consider a character's recovery and general post-move lag as my two biggest factors in applying tiers.

 

[tedward2000]

Oh pimpslap, I'd like to argue your placement of kirby in your tier list.
I believe that kirby belongs in the mid tier list. heres why...
Pros
1. Good recovery- Kirby has a long series of jumps( or floats) that are very effective, secondly his upB helps along the way
2. His upB in general- Highly effective in recovery and in attack. Hits multiple times if used close, and hits far away enemies, making it kirbys only natural distance move.
3. His dashA- vastly improved on attacking ability and lag, can actually be used and not screw you over. Minus the distance then the melee version, but makes up for it.
4. Strengthened Side B- his sideB is slightly more stronger in the way of % given. Im not sure about distance, a bit on the lax side. Usefulness in the air is minimal. Good KO move.
5. All Ariel moves- Not one is bad, all very useful in almost any air situation, exempt back sair because of facing the wrong way.
6.Smash UpA- Great KO'er as well, if the kick doesnt hit full contact, his toe will still move the enemy.
7. Smash SideA- again great KO'er, this move also moves kirby foward.
8.Size- hes a little person, yes, but he can make himself a flat person, and flat people are harder to hit.
9.speed- hes fast, he can pull out a dashA quickly while running, then run a little and do it again.
10. Dgrab- Chain grab. no words needed. other then very useful, good combo starter
11. Upgrab- Flashy, good combo starter
12. Can pull out a lot of combos
13. Down B- kirbys most spammed move, and theres a reason for it too. Mass damage, fastest single move, invincible minus being grab able.
14. Kribys moves can be classified as Kong-fu. How sweet is that?
15. standard A- his lightning fists or fury, think knuckle joe. Get enemy in a "tight squeeze" and 100%+ can be accumulated very fast, lightning fast.
16. Standard B- can either gain a new ability and still give damage, or spit out and give damage.
Cons
1.Lightweight- can be Ko'ed at a low %
2.Second jump- Kirbys second jump is just like is next following jumps, they dont take him far, compared to his first jump.
3. Lag of hammer- if this was any faster, id be illegal, but theres a reason for that.
4. Distance of boxes, kirby's got short stubby arms, so you could expect them to not go very far. making his attack range, very close to his frail body.
5. Projectiles- Hes only got one, which is his sword, which can be dodge easily, leaving him open and dead meat.

So those are my reasons why Kriby should be at least mid tier. They should be suffice.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

i don't no where to find it but G&W is top tier because his moves have barely to no lag makes him on punishable in most cases, his recovery is amazing. He's D-air makes hm almost unaproachble in the air. and he got faster. All his match ups are almost in his favor to win.
Too tedward
Trust me my friend i love kirby i use him tournys and in friendless (i actually counter pick in tournys But i always pick kirbs first round) All of what you said is true but it just doen't cut to bring him up much. He has incredible potential though i can see moving up on the list if some one spends the time to find a play style or a move set that sets him apart from the rest of the cast(like meta knight D-smash, Snakes mindgames, G&W low lag).
sorry dude i wanna move him up as well but i'm being biased and not choosing favorites.
TIER LIST:
Top tier
Falco
Snake
G&W

High tier
Ice climbers
MK
Pit
ZSS
Olimar
Marth
Toon link
Rob
King ddd
Wolf
Fox


Middle Tier
Pikachu
Wario
Sheik/and Zelda go here
Peach
Lucas
Lucario
Diddy Kong


Low tier
Ness
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Mario
Luigi
Captain Falcon
Ike (fan boys will attack me
Kirby(this hurts me my favorite this low ouch)
Sonic
Link


Lower Tier?
Jiggs
Ganondorf
DK
BowserTIER LIST:
Top tier
Falco
Snake
G&W

High tier
Ice climbers
MK
Pit
ZSS
Olimar
Marth
Toon link
Rob
King ddd
Wolf
Fox
Diddy Kong


Middle Tier
Pikachu
Wario
Sheik/and Zelda go here
Peach
Lucas
Lucario


Low tier
Kirby(this hurts me my favorite this low ouch)
Ness
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Mario
Luigi
Captain Falcon
Ike (fan boys will attack me
Sonic
Link


Lower Tier?
Jiggs
Ganondorf
DK
Bowser

i moved some chars around.

i will move

 

[tedward2000]

Sorry about the re-post, wont happen again.
I remove what i said before about kirby being mid tier.
And change that to Mid-high Tier.

Yea, i realized that on the cons side, more of kirby's moves can be added. And that is very bias.
And my little quote at the bottom doesn't help, makes me look more bias.
So i understand the reason with kirby not moving. And applaud your non-biased decision.
I just dont agree with the placement of a few chr's, but Kirby is the only one right now i could seriously argue about. And yet, i still remained not as solid as I had hoped.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

thats what i came up with i moved him to the top of the low tier. I hope to get proved wrong on the same note i do almost all things your speaking of and more in tourny and i can get only 13th though so yea.( i have a side journy to make him top tier as well your not alone by far)

 

[rabbitgod]

I definitely don't think that Samus should be bottom tier. She has a lot of moves that may not make her great, but at least competitive. Zair, no lag, good camping. Most of the recent tier lists have placed bottom tier and that is not right at all.

 

[Repryx]

Whay are Marth and MK lower than Falco??? Fail!

-Ciao

 

[StripesOrBars]

DK won a 60 man brawl tourney.

DK is top.

 

[Repryx]

So ur being saracstic right?

-Ciao

 

[A2ZOMG]

lol at you snake counters pika and snake counters meta nasty wow you said pika counters snake your funy f-tilt lightning Nade pika. GG

Snake can get ledgeguarded and counterspammed very effectively by Pikachu. All he has going for him is raw melee strength.

 

[StripesOrBars]

No.

Riot used only Dk and took out IceKid and ***** the best crew in SFL as well as some other names(well not that its that much beating the guys who are good at a game that hasnt even been out for a half year).

 

[StripesOrBars]

Also, I was thinking.

Sinc this game revolves around camping with projectiles, wouldn't that in logic make Kirby at least an even match up against all the characters in the game.

Especially since he's not the worst character in the game like he was in melee.

(Sorry for the double)

 

[Repryx]

^^I quit this discussion you cant base DK being top when your friend probably had way more skill


Kirby is even for people with edible projectiles lolz

-Ciao

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Whay are Marth and MK lower than Falco??? Fail!

-Ciao

my top tier stays on the same level because they win the same amount of tournaments look it up newb. and falco beats marth and Mk.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Snake can get ledgeguarded and counterspammed very effectively by Pikachu. All he has going for him is raw melee strength.

yes he can to both of your comets f-tilt kill pikachus thundershock and his nade punishes his thunder....
Riot is a good player but that won't make Dk top tier sorry for the double post....

 

[StripesOrBars]

LOL @ some of you post counts.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

what do you mean stripes or bars?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, DK definitely is underrated. His range, power, and damage output is decent.. He also has three spikes, SAF on DKPunch, and an amazing vertical finisher. That alone should keep him above low tier.

Tier list. Refer to post to see the list.

Ike is not low tier. Simply put, high range, amazing damage and knockback output, and a GOOD mobility strategy (Forward B used smart) makes him decent.

Mario is good because his projectile actually is very useful for approaching. His Cape and FLUDD, contrary to popular belief, are AMAZINGLY useful for ledgeguarding, so he's one of the best ledgeguarders in the game. He also has a very fast and lagless air game (minus his meteor smash). His problems in range and KOing are also less severe in Brawl. He's quite underrated.

Bowser is really good because he has a TON of range and priority. He's heavy, has great kill options, and he has the best Forward B in the game (a grab that does 18% wtf, he can literally L-cancel it furthermore with Infinite Midair Jump, and suicide kill).

Luigi is amazing in Brawl. He has great combo setups from his amazingly fast air game, and he has several amazing finishers from his fast Smash attacks, to his Up-B which he can Jab into. His recovery is really really good in Brawl too. Luigi is definitely high tier in this game.

Peach needs to be lower. She can't kill, and her combo setups suck, her projectiles are a lot worse, she is lightweight, and her recovery is bad.

Captain Falcon needs to be even lower. He's worse than Ganondorf quite seriously. He can't kill, his "combo" setups suck, his specials suck, and his recovery also sucks. Ganondorf beats him out both in comboing and killing. Both Falcon and Ganondorf are bottom tier material anyhow.

yes he can to both of your comets f-tilt kill pikachus thundershock and his nade punishes his thunder....
Riot is a good player but that won't make Dk top tier sorry for the double post....

If Snake is F-tilting thundershock, he isn't spamming projectiles. That removes one of his most significant strengths. Snake relies on spam to be effective. Not saying Pikachu doesn't, but it's not like Thundershocks are nearly the same life or death sort of issue.

Also, he can't punish Thunder with Grenades if he's recovering with the Cypher. The Cypher is unbelievably punishable here since he can neither autograb the ledge, and because his air game which he uses to supposedly save his recovery is also quite punishable. Snake's focus to recovering is going as high as possible so he can't be intercepted, but of course, he can't really attack back at that range. This is where Pikachu can use Thunder and make life miserable for Snake. And Thunder is very hard to punish in Brawl because it has LOW LAG.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Falco goes even with Marth and MK IMO.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Falco goes even with Marth and MK IMO.

I agree.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Thanks for posting why you don't like my list a2zomg
i already posted my reason for ike look for it please
I need to move mario up because he does have a awesome spam able move but get;s counterd easily.

Bowser got moved from bottom of the bottom to the top of the bottom tier

(this list is about the tournament scene and not my opinion in all honestly i can make a top tier to mid tier list because the information posted about tourn results. the things that you bring to me to represent the charecter you fell does not belong where i put them seem to make the chars better in your opinion but does it make them win tournaments obviously not because MK G&W Snake and falco still win tournaments majority of the time.)

sorry dude your present good opinions but opinions can only get you so far and mine is a opinion as well but i try to back mine by being biased and gathering information of tournament results.

Emblem lord i would think so but falco wins (tournament winnings) more and meda is getting more wins(tourny's as well) so i will bring to top tomarow
good night my friends and foes

Marth and Mede are going to get stalling banned....
That sucks

 

[tedward2000]

DK won a 60 man brawl tourney.

DK is top.

When was this tournament? A friend of mine, partook in a tourny back in march, lost to a guy who played DK amazingly well. perhaps it was the same tournament, im just wondering.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That's because no one good is playing Marth these days. M2K abandoned him because he THINKS he sucks when he rocks and has no bad match-ups.

 

[A2ZOMG]

sorry dude your present good opinions but opinions can only get you so far and mine is a opinion as well but i try to back mine by being biased and gathering information of tournament results.

Marth and Mede are going to get stalling banned....
That sucks

Oh, I see. You can't argue tournament results I guess. However that's not gonna stop me for some time until things start to set in stone (which is of course like within a year or two). =P

Stalling banned for what anyhow? Ledgecamping?

 

[P.c. Chris]

i stopped playing marth too, he has plenty of weak match ups but overall he's still fairy good just not top tier like everyone thinks at first.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Blargh, digging up posts from previous pages.

Ike is so low in the list because he is so predictible at the same time he's except a view are laggy. he gets destroyed by anyone that can spam and punish (meda knight) his attack for the most parts have start ups that tell what he's going to do. His recovery i predictble and punishable poor olimar fails here too...

Hmmm...Ike gets pressured badly I'll admit. SHLs and Snake are also hell to deal with. However his problem from what I see isn't so much about being punishable, because most of the time he cannot be shieldgrabbed if he's doing things right. This is especially true of well spaced N-airs, which have extremely low ending lag. From there, his options to protect himself from punishment don't end there. He can Jab and shield like anyone else, and Ike of course has one of the best Jabs in the game which is a strong attack, and also hard to shieldgrab.

Yeah, Ike's recovery is predictable. It's nearly impossible to punish if he's using Aether (unless you're someone like Mario using the FLUDD, or Snake camping with Nikitas).

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

DK belongs higher than people give him credit for. Especially with news of that tourney.

 

[Browny]

i stopped playing marth too, he has plenty of weak match ups but overall he's still fairy good just not top tier like everyone thinks at first.

now youve done it...

/me hands P.c. Chris a flame-shield

 

[hippochinfat!!]

DK is underrated.

Not high tier or anything but mid tier sounds good.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

But still, almost all of your other corecctions to my tier were incredibly unreasonable. Especailly Ike and Sonic being low tier.

 

[Deleted member]

Can I point out a few things that MK and Sonic have in common?

• Both are insanely fast
• Both can recover with all of their B-moves
• Neither have very good kill moves

Then why is MK getting top-mid tier, while is getting low-bottom tier? It just doesn't make sense. Is it that MK is a Kirby character and your trying to impress Sakurai?(Ooh, burn) Does it have anything to do with recent Sonic games? Give me one good reason why MK is a better character than Sonic, and I'll shut up.

 

[Repryx]

^^Range and Priority...be quiet now


-Ciao

 

[goodoldganon]

^^Range and Priority...be quiet now


-Ciao

Exactly. MK can shield pressure and has the disjointed hitbox of those **** swords. He is also a the king of priority. It seems his attacks will always beat the opponents out.

Also, I agree that DK is way underrated. He has a slight problem dealing with campers, but it's not impossible to get around it if he uses the stage setup and his f-tilt. If people still say he is garbage after my classes in an hour here I'll post his lists of pros and cons. I wish I could upload my videos.

 

[Zankoku]

Meta Knight
INSANE recovery; two glide recoveries, five jumps
Great speed
Good range
Ridiculous priority
Weak KO moves, but all with really mean horizontal knockback

Sonic
Decent recovery; very high Up+B, faster horizontal movement with other B moves
Amazing speed
Average range
Lose priority
Weak KO moves, some stronger than MK's, but generally 45 degree angled

Meta Knight KOs significantly more effectively than Sonic.