Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[RedfishX]

My Tier List v1.5. Not Advertising, though you may look at it if you like, lol.

what i meant to prove by this video was that ike sucks balls, i know snake will be atop at first. and i don't like meta knight, im just expressing my hatred for ike, i didn't mean to really do anything

Ike is mid-tier, like on the list I quoted. He's not "terrible" (*cough* Captain Falcon *cough*) but in the mean time, he will get owned by MK. Ike isn't that good, but he's good enough to be "Not bad."

Do you understand the point I'm trying to get across? I don't know much of another way to put it.

 

[hizzlum]

hi guys im gay

lol like most of the posters on this thread who don't know brawl

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

You've never played MvC2 have you?

Oh god......Sentinels and Magnetos on almost every team.......and the Infamous "Roll" Tier.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

hi guys im gay

I smell someone trying to increase their post count.

 

[Metro Knight]

You can gimp Ike's recovery by jumping in the way of the Quickdash before he gets near the stage.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

Good Job Metro Knight, but your about 4 months late.

 

[Kaizo]

...at least some of us here *cough* Chozen/EmblemLord *cough* can have intellegent discussion.....

You lost me there. Emblem Lord is a Marth fanboy who flames anyone who doesn't think Marth's the que- eh, king of smash. I mean he (kind of) knows what he's talking about, I just think he's a bit overzealous considering he's defending Marth.

EDIT: Might as well take time to discuss Bowser. CT, you say that Bowser has bad matchups with more than half the cast, yet none of them seem Bowser-breaking (besides Falco.....MK and Snake as well, but they have good matchups against everyone). Also, half of the matchups you mentioned for him are matchups that are even or in Bowser's favor. This needs to be discussed, and I'm far too lazy to look for the matchup discussion thread, let alone play catch-up and then post. You read both mine and Viers' assessment of Bowser's "bad matchups", so let me know what you think...I'd like to discuss the discrepancies and then talk about what makes certain matchups bad (the ones I don't know about, particularly Wolf).

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

EL actually isn't that bad, he's very intelligent, altough I admit he can be an *** in his delivery, but when you have to say something so many times, you'd get pissed off as well.

 

[Kaizo]

EL actually isn't that bad, he's very intelligent, altough I admit he can be an *** in his delivery, but when you have to say something so many times, you'd get pissed off as well.

I mean, I understand where he's coming from in that respect, but that's only when scrubs go "zomg bowsers bad guys LOL" and such, and don't listen when I explain why he doesn't suck. Honestly a lot of people don't know much about Marth, but at least he doesn't have to fight the popular opinion (which is mostly morons IMO).

Oh, and Stripesorbars is a join date scrub, but I put him in his place, so it's okay

 

[St. Viers]

heh, tons of people can have intelligent discussion. You need to add an "about smash" qualifier.

But until Chozen gets fed up with this thread, I'd love to here his opinion on zelda ^_^

 

[Kaizo]

heh, tons of people can have intelligent discussion. You need to add an "about smash" qualifier.

But until Chozen gets fed up with this thread, I'd love to here his opinion on zelda ^_^

We should just have an intelligent discussion about Super Paper Mario before anyone realizes what's going on *Paper Mario>Toon Link*

 

[TidalSpiral]

Am I the only one having mad success with Ganondorf? I don't know what it is, but the timing just seems to always work out with him. Even though he moves like he's underwater it seems to usually pay off.

 

[DanGR]

haha, I played series against a friend's zelda with ganon. He beat me the first time, I two stocked him the second. He then realized I had no move to hit my backside with. He'd roll behind me and I'd crap a brick. Downtilt, ftilt, fair combo a couple times and I'm gone. No more ganon for me. I'd had enough.

 

[Grunt]

Am I the only one having mad success with Ganondorf? I don't know what it is, but the timing just seems to always work out with him. Even though he moves like he's underwater it seems to usually pay off.

against friends or at tournies and such?

 

[Corner-Trap]

Something I noticed is that people seem to get offended when their character is put in mid tier when they feel they should be in high tier. They act as if mid tier is actually a bad thing. Does anyone not remember who was in the mid tier in Melee? If so then let me remind y'all:

Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Dr. Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Gannondorf

All of these characters were tournament viable(except for maybe Mario since everyone just used Dr.Mario over him, and I still think Gannon is better than him, but all thats besides the point). Not every character deserves to be in high tier. If we actually listened to all the requests posters made then high tier would be the largest tier.

 

[fkacyan]

Something I noticed is that people seem to get offended when their character is put in mid tier when they feel they should be in high tier. They act as if mid tier is actually a bad thing. Does anyone not remember who was in the mid tier in Melee? If so then let me remind y'all:

Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Dr. Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Gannondorf

All of these characters were tournament viable(except for maybe Mario since everyone just used Dr.Mario over him, and I still think Gannon is better than him, but all thats besides the point). Not every character deserves to be in high tier. If we actually listened to all the requests posters made then high tier would be the largest tier.

Everybody wants their character to be top tier, and will argue to the death that they are because, somehow, the character you play being top tier makes you top tier IRL or something.

Actually, I have no idea. I don't see why tiers matter if you're good with the character and have a decent chance of winning with them.

 

[Grunt]

Everybody wants their character to be top tier, and will argue to the death that they are because, somehow, the character you play being top tier makes you top tier IRL or something.

only scrubs do that.

Actually, I have no idea. I don't see why tiers matter if you're good with the character and have a decent chance of winning with them.

*Superfacepalm*

 

[IrArby]

This was posted by M2K in the Marth Melee forums on the 14th of May so the tournament M2K is talking about was maybe 2 days old when it was posted:

"the big tourney that Lee won. I'm not really mad that Lee won as I heard he deserved it, but Chu Eggm and Dave apparantly all got ***** and lost to ikes. Top 3 or 4 were all ikes,"

For those of you who don't know, those guys are Good. I'm not really pushing Ike or anything, I just wanted to discredit everyone here pretending they know. So both Azen and M2K will admitedly tell you the Ike has great potential. Overall, chars are pretty even so I'm guessing that Ike is one of a few chars that if your good/smart you can have advantages over other chars. Why else would Azen play him.

And lmao at you all that Alpha Zealot actually posted just to announce none of you had intelligent posts.

Judging by the fact that 90% of you have join dates during March 08 or after and that you guys have added like 8 pages of 3 line posts since I checked this thread at like 10:30 this morning I'm guessing that most of you are 14 year olds who have no life, car, job, or real experience at competitive smash. Take a minute to think before you post. Posting on smashboards is not the same thing as texting on your Krazer!

Back to tiers: It seems like no one is all that confident in who they're maining since everyone seems pretty equal. Being a fast char isn't a huge advantage since you can't abuse SH aerials because of the momentum kill thingie. Slow chars aren't at a disadvantage either because DI is broken as is Shieldgrabbing. Since shieldstun is so small range doesn't give you any huge advantage and, because you can float for years and airdodge and still perform other actions right after most projectices don't hold huge advantages for the chars who wield them. Wieght, height, etc. None of these attributes really quallify chars to be either ownage or garbage.

So I'm wondering which chars and exactly which inherint traits do those characters possess that allow them to be greater than other chars in the majority of the matchups?

 

[Browny]

@ above, Wario

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

This was posted by M2K in the Marth Melee forums on the 14th of May so the tournament M2K is talking about was maybe 2 days old when it was posted:

"the big tourney that Lee won. I'm not really mad that Lee won as I heard he deserved it, but Chu Eggm and Dave apparantly all got ***** and lost to ikes. Top 3 or 4 were all ikes,"

For those of you who don't know, those guys are Good. I'm not really pushing Ike or anything, I just wanted to discredit everyone here pretending they know. So both Azen and M2K will admitedly tell you the Ike has great potential. Overall, chars are pretty even so I'm guessing that Ike is one of a few chars that if your good/smart you can have advantages over other chars. Why else would Azen play him.

And lmao at you all that Alpha Zealot actually posted just to announce none of you had intelligent posts.

Judging by the fact that 90% of you have join dates during March 08 or after and that you guys have added like 8 pages of 3 line posts since I checked this thread at like 10:30 this morning I'm guessing that most of you are 14 year olds who have no life, car, job, or real experience at competitive smash. Take a minute to think before you post. Posting on smashboards is not the same thing as texting on your Krazer!

Back to tiers: It seems like no one is all that confident in who they're maining since everyone seems pretty equal. Being a fast char isn't a huge advantage since you can't abuse SH aerials because of the momentum kill thingie. Slow chars aren't at a disadvantage either because DI is broken as is Shieldgrabbing. Since shieldstun is so small range doesn't give you any huge advantage and, because you can float for years and airdodge and still perform other actions right after most projectices don't hold huge advantages for the chars who wield them. Wieght, height, etc. None of these attributes really quallify chars to be either ownage or garbage.

So I'm wondering which chars and exactly which inherint traits do those characters possess that allow them to be greater than other chars in the majority of the matchups?

I admit that I don't have a job (yet) and I am 14 years old, but that hasn't held me back in competing in the couple of Melee tourneys (and get brutally murdered in some cases) late in it's scene in and my first Brawl one a few weeks ago. BTW, Azen can make ANY character look good, like we already stated, he cheats.Nope, he said "Keep it intelligent" I'm sure he was referring to the thread in a more recent manner, it was starting to get.....stupid in some areas.

 

[IrArby]

More than anything it sounded like bickering.

Ike is garbage! Mid Tier
Ike is good! Mid Tier
Azen cheats (wtf)

I'm sure I'm missing some other particularly dumb ones but that was about the consitency of the conversation. I read it all just to catch up on what people had said since I posted and it was agonizing.

Thank you for your honesty Nigerian. I'm glad that you've got to compete in some tourneys you've probably played almost as much competitively as I have. My join date says Nov 07 but I was on the boards and have been watching youtube vids of pros at least 6 months before then. The problem is that so many people have been flooding the boards since Brawl and since few things are very concrete about the game noobs have been posting and no one who is ultimately knowledgable enough to say "your wrong now sit back and listen and learn from what more expereinced players are saying. " Most of the best Smashers don't post all that often because:
A. they don't have to ask questions they're already knowledgeable
B. they post when they have intelligent discussion
C. they've probably been following smash so long they've developed jobs and other commitments since they're older now and can't spam all day long
D. they playing smash (the best reason of all)

Theres other reasons to but those are pretty straightforward. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from posting since most of us here are still noobs. My point is aknowledge that and act like it. Hell! Post if you have a question or an idea but don't talk as if you know. This isn't directed at anyone particularly just in general.

Can we discuss tiers now? In all honesty, I hardly play brawl but Mario and occasionally (Luigi) looks like one of the few chars in vids that has aerial combos that are somewhat close to being true combos meaning they can't be airdodged out of our interuppted with an attack. True combos are a rarity in Brawl so this seems important to me since I can't find any other chars with any outstanding attributes. Among other things every melee char in the top, high, and mid tier had usefull true or near true combos.

 

[Laijin]

Ike is hot garbage.
He gets rocked by Kirby.
Anyone who gets rocked by Kirby is garbage.
Ike for low tier.

Then again. Kirby vs. Ike matches dont last more than 2 minutes. They have to be the fastest match up if played correctly. They can both gimp each other easily.
Either way, Kirby has the obvious advantage.
Ike sucks against Kirby.
gg

 

[Ratherion]

The whole concept of rating people by their join date bothers me...

I mean, oh noes, I looked up AT's because I lost to all my friends later than other people.

I figure if you at least present a level of intelligence in most of your post you should be respected by that, not your postcount or join date =/

Anyhow: Tier-list-stuffs.

I think I'm pretty much starting to ignore tier lists... Because every month or so it's

"Ike hax, overpowered."
"Ike sucks, gimp-heaven and soooo sloow."
"Azen is good with Ike, so he's good."
"Ike can't chaingrab, he sucks."

Seriously? It's happened with about every character.

 

[DMG]

Can we discuss tiers now? In all honesty, I hardly play brawl but Mario and occasionally (Luigi) looks like one of the few chars in vids that has aerial combos that are somewhat close to being true combos meaning they can't be airdodged out of our interuppted with an attack. True combos are a rarity in Brawl so this seems important to me since I can't find any other chars with any outstanding attributes. Among other things every melee char in the top, high, and mid tier had usefull true or near true combos.

It's more than just Mario and Luigi, although very few characters can truly combo. True combo's are not as inportant in Brawl as in Melee. Look at Snake for example; why does he win most major tournaments? He doesn't have very much combo potential, so why does he do good in tournaments? The answer is because he has outstanding attributes/advantages that most other characters cannot deal with. If you look at Snake, MK, G&W, or any other character that is expected to be in Top/High tier, they all have outstanding attributes in at least one if not more areas. I know that some top tier characters have real combos, but that isn't the main reason that they are in Top tier. If true combos were that important in Brawl, then how come Mario, Luigi, and some of the others are not doing so well at tourneys? The answer is that even with combos, they usually don't have much that can really compete with what some of the top tier characters got.

I think the Top 3 are always gonna include Snake, MK, and someone else like G&W, TL, or another Top tier character. The rest of the tiers might have characters shift spots as people learn more about the game but an accurate tier list for Brawl will probably take a shorter time than for Melee.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ike is hot garbage.
He gets rocked by Kirby.
Anyone who gets rocked by Kirby is garbage.
Ike for low tier.

Then again. Kirby vs. Ike matches dont last more than 2 minutes. They have to be the fastest match up if played correctly. They can both gimp each other easily.
Either way, Kirby has the obvious advantage.
Ike sucks against Kirby.
gg

ROFLMFAO

i seriously lol'd for a good two minutes while reading this, and while i may love kirby i have to say i agree whole-heartedly

 

[Ratherion]

Or much, much longer. To develop a real tier list.

 

[PiSToLZ]

Top Tier
Sonic
Yoshi
Ganon
Captain Falcon
High Tier
Link
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ivysaur
Samus
Mid Tier
Shiek
Bowser
Charizard
Peach
Wario
Fox
Lucas
Ness
Luigi
Low Tier
Game and Watch
Dedede
Ike
Zelda
Diddy
Zamus
Donkey
Wolf
Kirby
Olimar
Squirtle
Pikachu
Ice climbers
R.O.B.

Bottom Tier
Pit
Snake
Meta Knight
Falco
Toon Link
Marth

I believe this is the best teir list ever XD lolololol

 

[IrArby]

The whole concept of rating people by their join date bothers me...

I figure if you at least present a level of intelligence in most of your post you should be respected by that, not your postcount or join date =/.

Normally post count is somewhat indicitive of how much you've learned and know about smash but Spamming noobs who make single sentence long statements every 6 mins aren't all that learned are they? Especially if those posts are so remedial that Alpha Zealot has to post just tell everyone to please say something intellegint. So thus, I can only really go on join dates. I was able to deduce by the sheer number of these lame posts on a Saturday that most of the posters were young teenagers. ****! I freaking nailed it on the head cuz someone almost exactly as I had described responded in the very next post.

So on the whole my prediction was very accurate and yes intelligent posts are respected but I haven't seen many intelligents posts.

As to dr. mario guy's post: What I'm asking is what gives snake, MK, TL, and G&W huge advantages. You were very vague here. Whatever it is I'm not seeing it and as of yet no one has explained it. I'm really interested in what people think sets certain chars apart because I can almost guarantee that I can think of simple tactics using basic game mechanics that would stop those outstanding advantages from being so overpowering. The whole game is just set up that way!

Also, I looked at the list of true combos and no Mario for one only has 3, 2 if you don't count combos that can be DI'ed out of.

 

[MiraiGen]

That is re-godforsaken-diculous how many bad matchups people have against Marth. Good lord.

And jesus, just looking at Bowser and Gdorf's and Cap's matchups makes me cry.

 

[DMG]

Most Top tier characters have good range, a better than average recovery, good overall maneuverability, good killing moves and/or moves that do decent damage, little/manageable lag on attacks, things like that. They are in Top tier for those reasons, not because of their ability to truly combo. Some Top tier characters CAN combo people, but that is probably not a defining reason as to why they are better than 90% of the cast.

When I said that Brawl would take a shorter amount of time to get an accurate tier list, I was referring to how people are divulging into this game at an alarming pace and that there is probably not going to be something out there that is as game changing as Wavedashing or Lcancelling was in Melee. I'm not saying that something like that doesn't exist for Brawl, but at this point in time it doesn't look like Brawl will take as long to really get a good tier list out when compared to Melee.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jumping onto the bandwagon making tier lists. >< Btw, order within tiers is indeed from left to right.

S- Metaknight, Snake, G&W
A- Marth, Toon Link, DDD, ICs, Pikachu, R.O.B.
B- Zelda, Sheik, Fox, Wario, Pit, Kirby, Lucario, Squirtle
C- Charizard, Luigi, Mario, Bowser, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Olimar
D- Link, Ike, Peach, Samus, Yoshi, Jigglypuff
E- Ganondorf, Ivysaur, Captain Falcon, Sonic

Possibly unusual highlights:

Metaknight does lose to Snake, but is better overall in terms of his matchups against other characters. This is because he's safe on block, can move and approach fast enough to pressure campers, and actually has better kill options than Snake with his Up-B and D-smash, which don't get diminished since he has too many attacks to spam to get around diminishing returns. On top of that he's arguably one of the best ledgeguarders in Brawl, and he doesn't get gimped, which IMO is more important than being heavy.

I put G&W up in the S tier because U-air stalling is surprisingly broken in terms of what options it can limit your opponent to. If you do it right, they cannot punish it and it can only be escaped by air dodging or DIing off of the stage. The only characters that can reliably outspeed G&W with DI to escape stalling are clearly worse than G&W, such as Yoshi, Jigglypuff, and Wario. G&W also does several matchups better than persay Snake. Snake has a lot more trouble dealing with characters like Pikachu, Zelda, DDD, and Falco, and most campers in general. G&W however clearly has very good matchups against those characters. Also btw G&W is undeniably the most powerful character in team Brawls when paired up with someone like Zelda, which I believe deserves to be recognized.

I put Wolf lower than I think most people put him. This is because his recovery is horrible, much the same way Ganondorf has horrible recovery since he can't always make it back to the stage, and this also makes it harder for him to ledgeguard. His projectile spam as far as I'm concerned isn't all that good. Rather slow and short ranged.

I put Luigi, Mario, and Bowser in the same tier. Luigi honestly isn't all that much better than Mario since he deals with camping worse and his ledgeguarding is very bad, while Mario's is very very good. Mario is also the best camper of the three by a longshot. Bowser isn't better than Mario since he gets comboed much too easily and gets outcamped badly, but he does better than Mario in some matchups where camping is less of an issue.

Captain Falcon is horrible, but Sonic as far as I've seen now really seems worse. We discovered that you can still D-air to Knee if you autocancel the D-air, and Falcon has other attacks which kill better than Sonic's attacks since they have more knockback like F-smash, D-smash, and U-air, and maybe B-air. Sonic overall has less range than Falcon and Falcon seems to approach better due to having one decent priority attack the Falcon Kick to help that.

 

[IrArby]

Most Top tier characters have good range, a better than average recovery, good overall maneuverability, good killing moves and/or moves that do decent damage, little/manageable lag on attacks, things like that. They are in Top tier for those reasons, not because of their ability to truly combo. Some Top tier characters CAN combo people, but that is probably not a defining reason as to why they are better than 90% of the cast.

When I said that Brawl would take a shorter amount of time to get an accurate tier list, I was referring to how people are divulging into this game at an alarming pace and that there is probably not going to be something out there that is as game changing as Wavedashing or Lcancelling was in Melee. I'm not saying that something like that doesn't exist for Brawl, but at this point in time it doesn't look like Brawl will take as long to really get a good tier list out when compared to Melee.

I get it combos are not for Brawl.

Alright. SO we've identified things that make up top tier chars. Not at all difficult. However, your talking like the top tier chars are already decided. And I don't know any char that has all of those things! What we are looking for is what chars have the best average sum of all of those things. Maybe their edgeguarding is a "10" but they get edguarded easily so lets say "1"so they average 5 and so on and so on. Whose got the highest average of all those positive attributes and the lowest average for negative attributes?

I would argue that no char has an average of "TOP TIER ATTRIBUTES" that is significantly greater than the majority of the cast (and please if your going to argue give an example something specific pick a char or something and say why).

If you really sit and think it out all the chars have counters and have almost as many weakness as strengths and none of the chars can abuse the game mechanics in such a way as to give them distinct advantages. You all keep saying there are but there are not! I'm starting to feel like Brawl is a huge elaborate Rock, Paper, Scissors. I don't want to even know how idiotically people will respond to this.

 

[DMG]

I get it combos are not for Brawl.

Alright. SO we've identified things that make up top tier chars. Not at all difficult. However, your talking like the top tier chars are already decided. And I don't know any char that has all of those things! What we are looking for is what chars have the best average sum of all of those things. Maybe their edgeguarding is a "10" but they get edguarded easily so lets say "1"so they average 5 and so on and so on. Whose got the highest average of all those positive attributes and the lowest average for negative attributes?

I would argue that no char has an average of "TOP TIER ATTRIBUTES" that is significantly greater than the majority of the cast (and please if your going to argue give an example something specific pick a char or something and say why).

If you really sit and think it out all the chars have counters and have almost as many weakness as strengths and none of the chars can abuse the game mechanics in such a way as to give them distinct advantages. You all keep saying there are but there are not! I'm starting to feel like Brawl is a huge elaborate Rock, Paper, Scissors. I don't want to even know how idiotically people will respond to this.

I didn't say that things were set in stone. I said that Snake, MK, and someone else from Top tier will probably have those top 3 spots. That is my personal opinion about the future tier lists and not an unbreakable rule or something. If you believe that the characters are "equal" or "well balanced" then you are perfectly entitled to share your point of view. However, I think that the general concensus of the Smash Community is that the characters are not balanced out. Feel free to debate this with other members.

Insulting people by saying "I don't want to even know how idiotically people will respond to this" is unneccesary and it makes you look like you are unwilling to consider the opinions of others. So keep the insults to a minimum.

On A2ZOMG's list, I think Sonic should be higher up on the tier list for sure. There are a few more switches I would do but I'm too tired to explain/discuss them right now.

 

[hizzlum]

You lost me there. Emblem Lord is a Marth fanboy who flames anyone who doesn't think Marth's the que- eh, king of smash. I mean he (kind of) knows what he's talking about, I just think he's a bit overzealous considering he's defending Marth.

.

Emblem lord is the most knowledgeable person on marth on smashboards.period. he is part of TSA and a major part of NJ smash being part of its growth since the dawn of melee. You, on the other hand are a loser flaming people at a computer and deserve no respect from the smash community beacuse all you do is talk and not actually play the game, if you're not a top pro you ain't got **** to say to anyone.
Also emblem lord believes marth is not the best character in the game, obviously being under snake, MK, G&W, and Falco , which is what most people with an IQ above average agree on. he dosent think marth is top tier, marth will never be of that calibur(and everyone who mains marth knows that), but marth is easily one of the better characters in the game , becuase the tournament placeings, and his very good match-ups don't lie.
Question: why do you change account from BDawgPHD to Kaizo? Scared of being flammed so you change accounts?
No one cares what you say on this website if you do win in tournaments and talk **** all day, go beat ken and then you''l have some respect

 

[A2ZOMG]

On A2ZOMG's list, I think Sonic should be higher up on the tier list for sure. There are a few more switches I would do but I'm too tired to explain/discuss them right now.

Well, I'd appreciate if you would explain why Sonic should be higher up on the tiers.

I've talked to Inui and he thinks Sonic is in the bottom tier. We all know Sonic has the lowest overall priority in Brawl, but now I'm quite convinced that he also has the worst overall kill options. A few new discoveries (like D-air to Knee, the fact Falcon's Up-B is really good, not to mention his U-tilt) has told me that Captain Falcon doesn't have the worst kill options anymore, and that really for whatever kills Sonic can get, Captain Falcon can do better due to having more range and power.

The both suck terribly at killing due to having options that are either rather weak, or very telegraphed. Sonic however pretty much always has less range and power than Captain Falcon.

 

[Frown]

Top Tier
Sonic
Yoshi
Ganon
Captain Falcon
High Tier
Link
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ivysaur
Samus
Mid Tier
Shiek
Bowser
Charizard
Peach
Wario
Fox
Lucas
Ness
Luigi
Low Tier
Game and Watch
Dedede
Ike
Zelda
Diddy
Zamus
Donkey
Wolf
Kirby
Olimar
Squirtle
Pikachu
Ice climbers
R.O.B.

Bottom Tier
Pit
Snake
Meta Knight
Falco
Toon Link
Marth

I believe this is the best teir list ever XD lolololol

I like it, I like it a lot!

 

[zamz]

S- Metaknight, Snake, G&W
A- Marth, Toon Link, DDD, ICs, Pikachu, R.O.B.
B- Zelda, Sheik, Fox, Wario, Pit, Kirby, Lucario, Squirtle
C- Charizard, Luigi, Mario, Bowser, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Olimar
D- Link, Ike, Peach, Samus, Yoshi, Jigglypuff
E- Ganondorf, Ivysaur, Captain Falcon, Sonic

Needs more Falco.

 

[DMG]

Well Sonic has more positive and even matchups than Captain Falcon, Ganon, Jiggs, Ivysaur, basically most of the people that are near the bottom. I don't think he should be any higher than maybe middle of low tier but he certainly isn't the worst character in the game. He has low priority but he also has a great gimping game, he has a decent recovery, and he can deal with campers a lot better than someone like Ganondorf for example. He's not the best character out there, but he certainly doesn't deserve the "worst character" title.

Olimar should be higher up, maybe placed into the Top of the B class or the bottom of the A class. He has too much range, strength, and projectile spam to be considered that low. Yes, his recovery is far from stellar, and he has his shortcomings, but he should be higher than people like Mario.

You are missing some people in your list, like Falco and ZSS and I think 1 other person.

 

[Browny]

argh ffs plz dont refer to that match up chart. saying sonic has more + / - match ups than jiggs etc means NOTHING when that chart is entirely subjective. only a few checks are indisputable, like marth vs ness. rest has no worth.

 

[DMG]

argh ffs plz dont refer to that match up chart. saying sonic has more + / - match ups than jiggs etc means NOTHING when that chart is entirely subjective. only a few checks are indisputable, like marth vs ness. rest has no worth.

I find it hard to believe that most of the chart is completely useless. I'm aware that it isn't 100% accurate and that there are a lot of match ups that need to be changed/rewritten, but it is far from being useless. Whether you have a chart or not, I still think Sonic overall has some better match ups than a few characters, and I don't think he should be called the "worst character". If you disagree with me, that's fine. I just think he belongs higher up on that tier list.

I wonder where people put Wario at on their tier lists?