Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Kiwikomix]

That makes more sense when it's worded that way, I guess.
I'm not sure Jiggz really has the potential for... potential... like she did in Melee. She dominated Melee because her aerial game was head and shoulders above most others, but tons of characters have great aerial games this time around. Her recovery isn't that special when compared to everyone else that can do the same thing. They kept her old strengths and weaknesses, but unfortunately her strengths are outshone by everyone else's similar traits.
Link, on the other hand, seems destined to be a counterpick character for a select few matchups. He can camp, but he can be easily outcamped by other campy characters. He can kill, but he dies earlier than most due to his sub-par recovery. He certainly does have strengths, but they just aren't huge in any respect... he's not really the best at anything at all.

 

[stoopdklutz]

Jiggs is underrated. >.>

*runs*

Agreed.

*runs after Terios*

Somewhat.

*runs back to Kiwi*

Jiggs does have an air game, but then again, so do some other characters. I think the defining thing about Jiggs is that she RELYS on her air game. Other air people, like Wario, can perform adequate on the ground too. Not the case with Jiggs, who hasn't got much else. I like playing Jiggs though XP.

...amirite?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Agreed.

*runs after Terios*

Somewhat.

*runs back to Kiwi*

Jiggs does have an air game, but then again, so do some other characters. I think the defining thing about Jiggs is that she RELYS on her air game. Other air people, like Wario, can perform adequate on the ground too. Not the case with Jiggs, who hasn't got much else. I like playing Jiggs though XP.

...amirite?

UNLIKE Wario she can stay in the air for 20-30 secon....YEARS. Wario is better on the ground but doesn't have the potential gimp game that Jiggs has.

Wario's still better though. No question.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Actually Wario doesn't have too much of a ground game either, but he can actually use it for kills whereas Jiggz' KO potential is somewhat lacking. Wario also has a couple of advantages in that his air game deals more damage and he doesn't die at ridiculously low percentages.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Jiggs Fsmash is no joke. Dsmash sends at a nice angle too. Nice enough that you could even follow up with offstage Fairs for a KO if they manage to live.

 

[Kiwikomix]

If only fsmash had the speed and priority Kirby's has... or if dsmash had any range... it's pretty difficult to land either of those moves.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Dsmash yes. Fsmash I land all the time.

 

[Frown]

Jiggz was underrated at the release of Melee as well. She ended up middle tier.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Jiggz was underrated at the release of Melee as well. She ended up middle tier.

Could that be b/c AT's were discovered? Fox wasn't top tier either before wdashing was used.
Jiggs was stronger in the air back then but i don't know if any of her moves were buffed...

 

[The Real Inferno]

Jiggs recieved zero buffs in the transition from what I can tell. All of her moves are slightly slower, Rest is Weaker and she has less priority. About the only buff she recieved is Rollout no longer auto kills her off the edge.

 

[jigglyppuff8]

Fsmash I land all the time.

No offense, but either you're really lucky at the placement of your F-Smash or whoever you're playing has dead reflexes. You can see an F-smash coming much like someone with a powerful one like DDD or Ike. However, it's way slower, has less power, and can be powersheilded(or just any sheilded anywhere), and has lots of ending lag which can lead to a shield grab. D-smash is absolutely useless. It has no range, slow startup, and lots of ending lag. The angle it sends you can't KO unless you're really close to the edge and the opponent is on the other side of it(or at >300%).

 

[Tien2500]

Its not so much that Jigglypuff was nerfed as the game changed. When you can airdodge as you recover Jiggly's much less intimidating.

As for Yoshi I agree with Panda which may just be wishful thinking. But he really doesn't seem that bad to me. His speed is decent, and his power is somewhat below average but still alright. The eggs are still useful and improve his recovery more than the directional airdodge. Yoshi's bair is also pretty great. I'm not a Yoshi main but I'm sure Yoshi masters have/are going to find great uses for this as a KO setup. Also its nice that Yoshi can't be shield stabbed even if he did have to give up jumping out of a shield for it.

 

[stoopdklutz]

Jiggs recieved zero buffs in the transition from what I can tell. All of her moves are slightly slower, Rest is Weaker and she has less priority. About the only buff she recieved is Rollout no longer auto kills her off the edge.

Another semi-not really buff that doesn't include her is that the character models are bigger.

 

[Sudsy86_]

That makes more sense when it's worded that way, I guess.
I'm not sure Jiggz really has the potential for... potential... like she did in Melee. She dominated Melee because her aerial game was head and shoulders above most others, but tons of characters have great aerial games this time around. Her recovery isn't that special when compared to everyone else that can do the same thing. They kept her old strengths and weaknesses, but unfortunately her strengths are outshone by everyone else's similar traits.
Link, on the other hand, seems destined to be a counterpick character for a select few matchups. He can camp, but he can be easily outcamped by other campy characters. He can kill, but he dies earlier than most due to his sub-par recovery. He certainly does have strengths, but they just aren't huge in any respect... he's not really the best at anything at all.

But, overall, Jiggly is VERY low, now. She is roughly the same, but the game physics/ mechanics are what are killing the techy characters massively. Jigglypuff users ( partially me) could work around a weaker rest and generally slower play ( everyone has that detriment from Melee-to-Brawl), but she is fairly easily outprioritized unless her pound just messes everything up.

She's low because she is nothing special--better than Link, Ganondorf, and Falcon--but, still, nothing special. As someone said, most can recover from almost anything now, so her recovery isn't much of a comparitive plus anymore. Plus, there is multiple airdodging; therefore, Jigg's BEST combo opportunity is now gone.

I think she's quite powerful for having what range she does, but she can die very quickly because of her weight.

When played by good players she's low in low tier; otherwise, she is bottom for sure.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik is definitely underplayed. However, i think her players tend to be good ones.

Zelda is more popular, but i think she attracts a lot of unskilled players.

Pretty much. If I don't see a Sheik or Sheik/Zelda player in the top eight, chances are they weren't played by anyone at all in that tournament.

 

[popsofctown]

jiggs is really good against character's with bad grabs... namely Zelda

 

[Flandy121]

MY personal tier list

This is no way official at all it's just my opinion


Top:
01.) Snake
02.) Meta Knight
03.) G&W

High:
04.) Marth
05.) Falco
06.) Dedede
07.) ROB
08.) Lucario

High Middle:
09.) Olimar
10.) Pit
11.) Donkey Kong
12.) Pikachu
13.) Toon Link
14.) Wolf
15.) Wario
16.) Ike

Low Middle:
17.) Sonic
18.) Zelda
19.) Kirby
20.) Pokémon Trainer
21.) Fox
22.) Luigi
23.) Sheik
24.) Zero Suit Samus
25.) Diddy Kong
26.) Ice Climbers

Low:
27.) Lucas
28.) Link
29.) Samus
30.) Mario
31.) Jigglypuff
32.) Ness
33.) C. Falcon

Bottom:
34.) Bowser
35.) Peach
36.) Yoshi

Ganondorf tier:
37.) Ganondorf

note* there is a space before G-dorf because he is incredibly terrible.

 

[Nowaytoeatatater]

This is no way official at all it's just my opinion


Top:
01.) Snake
02.) Meta Knight
03.) G&W

High:
04.) Marth
05.) Falco
06.) Dedede
07.) ROB
08.) Lucario

High Middle:
09.) Olimar
10.) Pit
11.) Donkey Kong
12.) Pikachu
13.) Toon Link
14.) Wolf
15.) Wario
16.) Ike

Low Middle:
17.) Sonic
18.) Zelda
19.) Kirby
20.) Pokémon Trainer
21.) Fox
22.) Luigi
23.) Sheik
24.) Zero Suit Samus
25.) Diddy Kong
26.) Ice Climbers

Low:
27.) Lucas
28.) Link
29.) Samus
30.) Mario
31.) Jigglypuff
32.) Ness
33.) C. Falcon

Bottom:
34.) Bowser
35.) Peach
36.) Yoshi

Ganondorf tier:
37.) Ganondorf

note* there is a space before G-dorf because he is incredibly terrible.

It's....kind of ****ty. The fact that you put the IC's so low kinda proves that you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

 

[ShadowLink84]

It helps to explain what you mean tater.
Don't go flaming people when he said it was based on
"This is no way official at all it's just my opinion"

 

[fkacyan]

It's....kind of ****ty. The fact that you put the IC's so low kinda proves that you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

All he has to do is switch ICs and Sonic, and Diddy and Ike, and the list is fairly accurate.

 

[Morrigan]

Well, his opinion is wrong then.
Any list containing C.Falcon NOT in bottom tier fails.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Why place Sonic on bottom of mid tier tier if he is 21st on the tournament rankings?
Nkoku updated the no detail one and hasn't yet calculated for the details one yet.

unless he updated again and Sonic fell to around 25~26 which would render my point moot.


IC's should be 17th
Ike should be 27th.
Diddy should be 16th
Sonic should be 21 to 24.

Peach is waaaaaaay too low.

Found the newest rankings.

S: Snake(1), Meta Knight(2)

A: King Dedede(3); Mr. Game & Watch(4), Marth(5), Wario(6)

B: Falco(7), ROB(8), Lucario(9), Donkey Kong(10), Olimar(11)

C: Diddy Kong(12), Kirby(13), Ice Climbers(14), Fox(15), Wolf(16), Pit(17), Zero Suit Samus(18)

D: Peach(19); Sonic,(20) Pikachu(21), Lucas(22), Ness(23), Zelda(24), Toon Link(25), Ike(26), Jigglypuff(27), Samus(28), Bowser(29), Pokémon Trainer(30), Luigi (31)

E: Sheik(32), Link(33); Mario(34), SheikZelda;(35) Yoshi(36); Captain Falcon;(37) Ganondorf (38)

Peach, Diddy, Ice Climbers need to move up.
Sonic should move down (but not all the way to bottom of mid tier thats 7 places down which is too much of a stretch as I said earlier)

Ike needs to move down a bit, CF and Ganondorf are together in bottom.

Sheik went up two placings I think so yay!

 

[M.K]

Why place Sonic on bottom of mid tier tier if he is 21st on the tournament rankings?
Nkoku updated the no detail one and hasn't yet calculated for the details one yet.

unless he updated again and Sonic fell to around 25~26 which would render my point moot.


IC's should be 17th
Ike should be 27th.
Diddy should be 16th
Sonic should be 21 to 24.

Peach is waaaaaaay too low.

Found the newest rankings.

S: Snake(1), Meta Knight(2)

A: King Dedede(3); Mr. Game & Watch(4), Marth(5), Wario(6)

B: Falco(7), ROB(8), Lucario(9), Donkey Kong(10), Olimar(11)

C: Diddy Kong(12), Kirby(13), Ice Climbers(14), Fox(15), Wolf(16), Pit(17), Zero Suit Samus(18)

D: Peach(19); Sonic,(20) Pikachu(21), Lucas(22), Ness(23), Zelda(24), Toon Link(25), Ike(26), Jigglypuff(27), Samus(28), Bowser(29), Pokémon Trainer(30), Luigi (31)

E: Sheik(32), Link(33); Mario(34), SheikZelda;(35) Yoshi(36); Captain Falcon;(37) Ganondorf (38)

Peach, Diddy, Ice Climbers need to move up.
Sonic should move down (but not all the way to bottom of mid tier thats 7 places down which is too much of a stretch as I said earlier)

Ike needs to move down a bit, CF and Ganondorf are together in bottom.

Sheik went up two placings I think so yay!

Those lists are totally stupid NOW. This is just the beginning of Brawl's metagame, and you can't expect some characters to be fully figured out yet. Pokemon Trainer is NOT the 5th worst character in the game, he is just a character that is rarely used. Same goes for Luigi/Mario, BELOW Jigglypuff and Samus? No Way!

 

[ShadowLink84]

It isn't a tier list metakirby.
Its a character RANKING s list.
It dictates how well they are doing tourney wise.

Quit the ***** atack.

 

[M.K]

It isn't a tier list metakirby.
Its a character RANKING s list.
It dictates how well they are doing tourney wise.

Quit the ***** atack.

I know, I just hate when people base facts upon this list and say things like "See, YOSHIZ NOT TAT SPOONY BARD"

 

[ShadowLink84]

Its understandable. However if a Yoshi main wants to say yoshi is mid tier, he has to work harder. Even if the tourney lists show he is better people will still hark on the cons.

Edit Ig otta stop playing games while typing.

 

[Mmac]

"See, YOSHIZ NOT TAT SPOONY BARD"

I Lawl'd XD. FFIV is awesome!

But honestly, before Samurai came, We wanted him to be somewhere in Low. I don't think people care about his statement though, because I still see people having no problem putting the adorable thing in bottom

 

[LuigiKing]

It makes me sad that so many characters are so low on the rankings simply because not enough players are willing to pick them up. Biggest issues I see are Luigi and Sheik...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Indeed, those are two characters which really should be doing better than they are currently placed.4Hmm maybe a soft ban on snake and MK.

>_>
<_<

I can dream can't I?

 

[M.K]

I wouldn't mind a ban on Meta-Knight. It's just like "....game over." when you see him pop out. It would give some other characters, such as Luigi (who has ridiculous, unpredictable, and suprisingly effective moves) a fighting chance in the competitive environment.

 

[ShadowLink84]

yeah but its not going to happen.

Hmmmaybe a soft ban like they do to Akuma in Japan. >_>

I should stop dreaming.

 

[Judge Judy]

I don't know about a ban but characters like Mario almost never see tornament play because no one uses them. I mean the Mario board has only just started to expand because people are starting to realize how broken the cape is and how hard he can pwn people with his 50-80% juggles.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I'm not sure what 'soft-ban' means, does it involve pillows?
However, seeing 'ban' in the same sentence as 'MK and Snake' leaves me feeling warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Wow.. Just about every tier list in this thread fails in my eyes.

 

[Judge Judy]

Anyway, one thing I've been wondering is if people really want to put Mario and Luigi in low tier, do they really want to see nothing but Marios and Luigis in low tier tornaments? It'll be just like Melee where Luigi became god of low tier...

 

[Snowstalker]

God:

Meta Knight
Snake

Top:

Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B
King Dedede

High:

Captian Olimar
Wario
Toon Link
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
Kirby
Lucario
Zelda
Pit
Wolf

Middle:

Ice Climbers
Fox
Diddy Kong
Luigi
Lucas
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Mario
Bowser

Low:

Peach
Yoshi
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Shiek
Ike

Bottom:

Samus
Link
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Captian Falcon

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'm not sure what 'soft-ban' means, does it involve pillows?
However, seeing 'ban' in the same sentence as 'MK and Snake' leaves me feeling warm and fuzzy inside.

A soft ban is sort of like an unsaid agreement.

Like Akuma in Japan many of the top players do NOT use Akuma. Even though he is legal to use.

So it could be something similar to Snake and MK. you can use them but it is frowned upon. more so MK than Snake though.

@Sno:w: there is no God Tier. MK and Snake are far from being worthy of such a thing.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Ahh ok thanks, so it's basically an honour thing.
And I keep seeing lists from you every page or two, and every one of them fails.
Why are Bowser and Mario in mid? And what's up with Sheik being so low?

 

[mitchlol7]

God:

Meta Knight
Snake

Top:

Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B
King Dedede

High:

Captian Olimar
Wario
Toon Link
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
Kirby
Zelda
Pit
Wolf

Middle:

Ice Climbers
Lucario
Fox
Diddy Kong
Luigi
Lucas
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Mario
Bowser

Low:

Yoshi
Peach
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Shiek
Ike

Bottom:

Samus
Link
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Captian Falcon

Yoshi is WAY too high and falcon is imo better than ganon

oh and p.s. i just noticed the title is tier DISCUSION something like create your own tier list

 

[Krayn]

God:

Meta Knight
Snake

Top:

Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B
King Dedede

High:

Captian Olimar
Wario
Toon Link
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
Kirby
Zelda
Pit
Wolf

Middle:

Ice Climbers
Lucario
Fox
Diddy Kong
Luigi
Lucas
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Mario
Bowser

Low:

Yoshi
Peach
Sonic
Pokemon Trainer
Shiek
Ike

Bottom:

Samus
Link
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Captian Falcon

Thats sorta right. I'de say the high tier would be D3, GW, Falco, ROB, Marth. Also diddy kong should be high of High Tier.