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learn to grammar.
lol, it's not like Lucario is Link. I find it highly unlikely you'll gimp a lucario more than twice in a set. I doubt you'd get more than 1 gimp if the lucario already knows the matchup very well.
As sad as it may sound... Still, high level Lucs will also be forced to use it if they're in bad positions offstage.
Meh, I find his utilt easier to evade than his usmash. I don't get near Lucario from above when I see him starting one, but when he's using utilt, the hitbox isn't active for as long as usmash, so I can fall with a well-timed dair > ftilt and send you away from me, leaving me to land in peace... Or I just land somewhere else, preferably a ledge for a good ledgehop fair (> grab depending on your %).
Nah, Lucario's fsmash comes out after Kirby's fsmash... But it ends faster and is less punishable, I assure you.
Yep. Kirby's best hand-on-hand tactics are grab tactics, INCLUDING dthrow (the one option average kirbies avoid since Lucario dairs avter a dthrow)... Just make sure you're shielding in case he dairs, and if he does, regrab and dthrow again... Kirby's ftilt has more range than Luc's jab, and starts out faster than any other hand-to-hand moves Lucario has, making it a safe choice for spacing while Kirby is grounded, ESPECIALLY cancelling an fsmash that you're going to eat but are still deciding whether you should shield or not.
Hmm... Yep, just like every other matchup.
Not if Kirby dairs, then jumps and dairs again where Lucario's going to ES through. Lucario ends up lower than before, and Kirby still has his other jumps, which he will be counting for when you're low enough to die from an edgehog if you fall into that position.
Vertical recovery is handled the same way: dair on top of him and he'll be sent lower each time, then edgehog. And yeah, footstools obviously after the dairs, but most of the time Lucario will be mashing upB after each of our dairs, so footstools won't be effective... Stick to dair > dair then edgehogs as kirby... And gimping Lucario twice in a set? Sadly, unless Lucario is recovering from high, our bair assures us that you don't reach the stage unless you use upB. We'll obviously be careful of your fair: you normally don't do two fairs in a single jump offstage when near to the stage's height level, so we watch for 1 fair then jump in... Otherwise the 2nd fair will put you in an uncomfortable position where Kirby can dair you easily thanks to your upB's startup and telegraphed recovery direction (ledge).
This.
speaking of that.
when Lucario is at low % this is can be a viable solution. At later %, Lucario's aura modifiers make his AS eat right through Kirby's AS.
I believe that until Lucario is at like, ~100%, our AS is stronger. After that, as you said, Lucario's AS is stronger.
AS isn't a hard projectile to powershield against... And if you're a character with multiple jumps and light enough to not fall at a fast speed towards the stage (like DDD), we can easily hover above any and all AS attempts. And if you're waiting for us to land so you can frame trap us, we can sideB/upB/downB stall safely, or attack you with a bair while landing, which will be easy for us to do since you'll be busy shooting the AS.
Awright... What if Kirby shields, then counters with an ftilt while Lucario is using the AS as coverfire? Ftilt has more range than any of Lucario's grabs and ends fast enough to give Kirby a chance to roll backwards/shorthop airdodge away from danger.
I know, dontcha worry... I was just pointing out that Kirby can get around that tool way easier than most other character, even though he would most likely also die faster than any other character.
Most of the options in the game won't work if the player doesn't know their mechanics... Point is, I've seen AS's used to follow opponents offstage and make their recovery harder, as well as punish airdodges and camping between many other options. Kirby has enough jumps to avoid any AS's thrown at him offtstage, onstage AND over the stage... As well as powershield, of course, which is bane for both ZSS (projectile or no) and Lucario's projectile.
PS'ing his projectile is different than PS'ing smashes. His projectile can be seen coming from a mile away, and if you use it close range, the startup time in the move is enough for the opponent to see it coming and jump+airdodge away from Lucario... To me, it's yet another move in Lucario's arsenal, nothing special at all, no different than other spacing moves to keep the opponent from taking an offensive stance (unless Kirby shields > ftilt at the right distance).
Man, everyone always calls out t!mmy and other smashers when discussing MUs... I'm a good Kirby player...!
AS isn't to the point where we will be second guessing our approaches. I've actually said before that this is a match of patience that Kirby has to play defensively. No Kirby is gonna just try to poke Lucario when he has an AS ready. There are also ways to make Lucario prematurely ejaculate his AS anyways. Empty jump ->, bair/fair -> DJ, and even sometimes just running at him (not so much that one). Just because he has an AS doesn't mean we're automatically spaced. We can still approach safely and space away back to safety. The only char that just blatantly outspaces us with little effort is Martha, but that's a different story.
Actually the hovering above AS with Kirby's multiple jumps can sometimes be a stupid thing to do. Sometimes, it's what he wants, Since it's uber sloow, It controls the aerial space where kirby could be attacking him. instead he's floating a useless 10 ft above him, And Lucario charges AS very fast. he can easily fire another to force Kirby back, Or go on the offensive with Kirby in a position with not many escape options. Aura has transcendant priority, and effectively goes through Kirby's aerials if spaced well. Kirby's bair also isn't a good idea to a firing lucario. 2 things will happen if you try to attack with bair, 1. You'll get hit by AS, 2. Lucario will avoid getting the bair since AS doesnt have much end lag
tl,bir
My Kirby only really comes out in doubles anymore, but I'd be willing to play a few friendlies at OSU. See you then?
What advantages does Lucario gain from wavebouncing his AS? If it's just like Snake's wavebouncing grenades, then the MU would remain pretty much the same, IMO.
I don't follow entirely. It's an option if the lucario wants to make AS much less telegraphed (it works much more than it should on paper), and to escape juggling that dair/AD can't handle, and it hasn't been tested, but it could work similarly to the new fox/zelda AT that acts as a bucket brake. I would hold off on calling it that though until we've actually tested it.
It was purely theoretical, I don't really mean a Lucario will be charging a random fsmash anywhere. I meant that if we are on the ground anywhere near a Lucario that is about to use an fsmash, and we see it coming, we can either shield it, jump away, or walk closer and ftilt, since it'll clash or hit Lucario before his attack starts.
What is this?
Are you basing this off any legitimate experience or is it pure theory? why on earth would anyone ever stand still charging an fsmash unless you are on the ledge and you cant exactly punish it. If thats the case, you could probably get away with spamming dash attack on the same lucario player and win, its quicker to get in the fsmash range.
same question for AS dodging. You cant evade it forever, and it will KO
Kirby doesn't really do bad in any stage, really. He's kinda like MK on this, where he doesn't have bad stages, but has a "worst" out of all the good stages.
